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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Poverty in the US
Ed Huntress wrote:
Anyway, this war is costing a hell of a lot more than anyone will say out in the open, and stabilizing oil prices, should that even be possible, isn't worth the loss of lives...forget about the cost in dollars. -- Ed Huntress Ed, I don't really believe this mes is about stabalizing oil prices. I believe it's about securing an oil supply. Period. Richard |
#2
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Poverty in the US
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message ... Ed Huntress wrote: Anyway, this war is costing a hell of a lot more than anyone will say out in the open, and stabilizing oil prices, should that even be possible, isn't worth the loss of lives...forget about the cost in dollars. -- Ed Huntress Ed, I don't really believe this mes is about stabalizing oil prices. I believe it's about securing an oil supply. Period. Richard It's a continuation of the same thing that was going on during the Cold War, Richard. The West is so dependent upon oil that we're vulnerable as hell. And there are a lot of people who would like to exploit that vulnerability by making life miserable for all of us; coercing us into making outrageous concessions; outright blackmail. During the Cold War it was the Soviets. Now it's radical Islamists. And now we have competing doctrines about how to stabilize it, to maintain a reliable flow of oil at tolerable prices. So we have our hands in the Middle East, which we poorly understand, under conditions that we can't really control, fighting a legacy of having screwed it up pretty well. Some of that screwing up was inevitable under the conditions of the Cold War, and more of it is the even longer legacy of the Versailles Treaty, but now we're paying the price. It could be worse, however. And maybe it will be. -- Ed Huntress |
#3
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Poverty in the US
On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:02:43 -0600, cavelamb himself
wrote: Ed, I don't really believe this mes is about stabalizing oil prices. I believe it's about securing an oil supply. Period. Richard ================= I'm not Ed, but-- It may well be more about securing an oil supply. If oil hits 150$ or 200$/bbl the major oil companies will cry all the way to the bank (and may hurt themselves carrying that much money). The question that must be asked is "why does the US have to have an *OIL* supply?" It seems apparent given the huge amounts of money expended [now estimated at 3 trillion dollars] and 6 years, the US could [and should] have been well along the road to energy independence using alternative sources such as solar, tidal, bio, geothermal, etc. This would not only reduce or eliminate our dependence on energy imports, and *GREATLY* improve our balance of payments [trade] deficits, but would stimulate the domestic [technical/industrial] economy as well addressing a number of "green" issues. Why is this not being done? #1 If the major energy sources were domestically located, the multinationals would no longer be able to play their transfer pricing games to shift revenues to secretive tax havens and evade taxes. #2 This would bankrupt [or at the very least severely reduce the cash flow of] some very powerful corporations and people (i.e. "fat cat" campaign donors). They have "low balled" their cash-flow/profits and assets for years, thus any compensation (assuming any is justified) based on "book value" and "earnings" would have been far below the actual value, and any attempt to justify the actual value for compensation would (justifiably) resulted in huge numbers of tax evasion cases and suits for recovery of evaded property, severance, and franchise taxes, as well as stockholder suits for back dividends. #4 Any shift to some form of domestically [US] sourced/produced energy, even if liquid, would have rendered even more of the oil company assets such as petrochemical plants obsolete, worth only scrap value, and also rendering much of their intellectual property such as polymer patents worthless. Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
#4
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Poverty in the US
Hi Unka' George,
I can't address how things should or shouldn't be. Or who make a buck and who doesn't. The simple fact is that we can't change our oil addiction. That's what our society developed from. That's what our society runs on. Nothing else even comes close to the energy and portability of oil derived fuels. AND the supply has gotten noticibly harder to supply. As for the why alternate energies are not being developed? They are. But it will never be enough energy to maintain this population level. Maybe 1950's population levels? But more likely 1900's levels. Hopefully! We are going to take a hit. The realy question is how hard? |
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