----Brought on by the recent post about oil filters:


I have been changing oil every 20,000 to 50,000 miles in my cars since
1975, using synthetic oil. I change filters with every oil change.
We have never had an oil pan or head off any car, nor has the gas
mileage gone south before we traded them in or moved them down the line
to relatives. The first car to get this treatment was a 1975 VW rabbit
(traded at 120,000) and the latest is a 1992 Nissan Sentra with 306,000
miles on it, still getting about 3500 miles to the quart of oil at present.
Cars treated this way:
1975 VW rabbit
1978 Plymouth Horizon
1980 Mitsubishi Sedan (bought used)
1983 Nissan Stanza
1987 Nissan Stanza
1992 Nissan Sentra
1993 Plymouth Voyager (bought used)

Why should I not continue this practice?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

"spaco" wrote in message
...
----Brought on by the recent post about oil filters:


I have been changing oil every 20,000 to 50,000 miles in my cars since
1975, using synthetic oil. I change filters with every oil change.
We have never had an oil pan or head off any car, nor has the gas
mileage gone south before we traded them in or moved them down the line to
relatives. The first car to get this treatment was a 1975 VW rabbit
(traded at 120,000) and the latest is a 1992 Nissan Sentra with 306,000
miles on it, still getting about 3500 miles to the quart of oil at
present.
Cars treated this way:
1975 VW rabbit
1978 Plymouth Horizon
1980 Mitsubishi Sedan (bought used)
1983 Nissan Stanza
1987 Nissan Stanza
1992 Nissan Sentra
1993 Plymouth Voyager (bought used)

Why should I not continue this practice?

If you believe you have superior engineering insght- better than the folks
who designed and tested the engine and developed the oil-change interval-
then go for it. It is your car and your money.
But I'll bet you didn't mention the lack of service went you traded in, did
you?

-Carl

I had a 95 F-150, and it used no oil, even at 120k. I just changed oil
every 3,000. Only time it "used" oil was when the oil galley seal leaked
on the straight six block.

My 2001 Focus is tight as well, and I am at 92K.

I used to use synthetics, but they don't seem to be any better for
engine oil. Perhaps regular changes every 3,000 to 6,000 miles will do
everything the synthetics will do, and at less than half (or a quarter)
of the cost.


"spaco" wrote in message
I have been changing oil every 20,000 to 50,000 miles in my cars since
1975, using synthetic oil. I change filters with every oil change.
We have never had an oil pan or head off any car, nor has the gas
mileage gone south before we traded them in or moved them down the line to
relatives. The first car to get this treatment was a 1975 VW rabbit
(traded at 120,000) and the latest is a 1992 Nissan Sentra with 306,000
miles on it, still getting about 3500 miles to the quart of oil at
present.

I had a 95 F-150, and it used no oil, even at 120k. I just changed oil
every 3,000. Only time it "used" oil was when the oil galley seal leaked
on the straight six block.

My 2001 Focus is tight as well, and I am at 92K.

I used to use synthetics, but they don't seem to be any better for
engine oil. Perhaps regular changes every 3,000 to 6,000 miles will do
everything the synthetics will do, and at less than half (or a quarter)
of the cost.

Carl Byrns wrote:
I have been changing oil every 20,000 to 50,000 miles in my cars since
1975, using synthetic oil. I change filters with every oil change.
We have never had an oil pan or head off any car, nor has the gas
mileage gone south before we traded them in or moved them down the line to
relatives. The first car to get this treatment was a 1975 VW rabbit
(traded at 120,000) and the latest is a 1992 Nissan Sentra with 306,000
miles on it, still getting about 3500 miles to the quart of oil at
present.

"spaco" wrote in message
...
----Brought on by the recent post about oil filters:

I worked for a transport company in the 1980s and we introduced vehicle
servicing based on the engine revolutions, rather than the kms the vehicle
was driven. Most of the highway trucks were getting serviced at 45,000 to
55,000 kms, whilst the local city delivery trucks were well below 15,000kms.
The logic was that the engine revolutions was a better indicator of how much
work the engine/drivetrain had done - brakes were the same.

Prior to introduction the oil on about 30 trucks was being tested weekly to
prove the theory. All the drivers had to undergo driver training to get them
out of the old Detroit Diesel high rev pattern of driving and introduce them
to high torque low revving engines. The truck makers had no problems at
all - even the lease vehicles were included in the scheme once they had
total rev counters fitted.

Modern oils blow off quite a lot of volatile polymers which get put through
the engine and burnt, taking a fair bit of crud out of the oil. Its not
uncommon for a car to need topping up with engine oil, sometimes the top up
will be equivalent to a complete engine oil change over about 15,000kms.

Well, since you ask, what makes you think that the 3000 mile interval
was any more than a CYA effort on the part of the mfr? I firmly
believe that THEY realize that it's easier to get the average driver to
CHANGE the oil than to check it and add. They have to cover themselves
for the worst case driver and for the ones that make the shortest trips,
all with one number.

Did you note that, just recently most major mfrs doubled the intervals?
Did you know that at least one mfr (BMW) now goes by "key clicks"
instead of miles to notify the driver when its time to change?

Here's a question of my own:
How many of you who DO cahnge regularly keep careful track of the
oil consumption between those 3000 mile intervals? The people I know
who change that frequently simply pull the plug and haven't the
slightest idea how the engine is doing anyway.

When I trade the car in, it is so old that it's not an issue, even
though I always keep them in excellent mechanical condition. But, my
whole point is: what can you point to that says there's anything wrong
with my oil change interval, other than siting the common thought that
"it oughta be done more often"? What's wrong with a 300,000 mile
engine that still works well? Do you get 5000,000 miles with 5000
miles per quart BECAUSE of your 3000 mile interval? If you are like
most drivers, how would you know?


Pete Stanaitis
-----------------


Carl Byrns wrote:

If you believe you have superior engineering insght- better than the folks
who designed and tested the engine and developed the oil-change interval-
then go for it. It is your car and your money.
But I'll bet you didn't mention the lack of service went you traded in, did
you?

-Carl

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:27:55 -0600, spaco
wrote:


Well, since you ask, what makes you think that the 3000 mile interval
was any more than a CYA effort on the part of the mfr? I firmly
believe that THEY realize that it's easier to get the average driver to
CHANGE the oil than to check it and add. They have to cover themselves
for the worst case driver and for the ones that make the shortest trips,
all with one number.

Did you note that, just recently most major mfrs doubled the intervals?
Did you know that at least one mfr (BMW) now goes by "key clicks"
instead of miles to notify the driver when its time to change?

Here's a question of my own:
How many of you who DO cahnge regularly keep careful track of the
oil consumption between those 3000 mile intervals? The people I know
who change that frequently simply pull the plug and haven't the
slightest idea how the engine is doing anyway.

When I trade the car in, it is so old that it's not an issue, even
though I always keep them in excellent mechanical condition. But, my
whole point is: what can you point to that says there's anything wrong
with my oil change interval, other than siting the common thought that
"it oughta be done more often"? What's wrong with a 300,000 mile
engine that still works well? Do you get 5000,000 miles with 5000
miles per quart BECAUSE of your 3000 mile interval? If you are like
most drivers, how would you know?


Pete Stanaitis
-----------------
Pete, when i BUY my vehicles they are generally old enough it's not an
issue.

However, I DO check the oil.
I change the oil ROUGHLY every 3 months or 3000 miles.
If in 3 months there is only 1500 miles, it might go 4.
It was watching oil consumption that helped catch the bad guides on
the 88 chrysler, but even with no oil required between changes, it was
the dead cat. converter that caught my attention. Had a couple bad
valve guides (typical of 3.0 Mitsu****ties)
On my 94 Pontiac I check the oil on occaision, but as it has never
been down 1/2 liter between changes without having sprung an oil
cooler leak, just looking at the driveway regularly suffices.
The 1996 Mystique also has never been down 1/2 liter between changes.
The daughter's (1998)neon is a different story - so she generally
checks it every second tank of gas, and it usually needs oil every
second check.


Carl Byrns wrote:

If you believe you have superior engineering insght- better than the folks
who designed and tested the engine and developed the oil-change interval-
then go for it. It is your car and your money.
But I'll bet you didn't mention the lack of service went you traded in, did
you?

-Carl




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in
:



On my 94 Pontiac I check the oil on occaision, but as it has never
been down 1/2 liter between changes without having sprung an oil
cooler leak, just looking at the driveway regularly suffices.
The 1996 Mystique also has never been down 1/2 liter between changes.
The daughter's (1998)neon is a different story - so she generally
checks it every second tank of gas, and it usually needs oil every
second check.

Neon is probably leaking it. Either valve cover, cam sensor, or the head
below the exhaust manifold. Common problems. I've got one with 176K,
replaced the head gasket at 150k because it was leaking. Got a breeze (same
engine) with 177K, and it's leaking out the head gasket also, just haven't
had time to change it. Other than that...those are excellent vehicles.
(176k, auto, and still gets 33 mpg)

--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 10:19:40 -0600, spaco
wrote:

----Brought on by the recent post about oil filters:


I have been changing oil every 20,000 to 50,000 miles in my cars since
1975, using synthetic oil. I change filters with every oil change.
We have never had an oil pan or head off any car, nor has the gas
mileage gone south before we traded them in or moved them down the line
to relatives. The first car to get this treatment was a 1975 VW rabbit
(traded at 120,000) and the latest is a 1992 Nissan Sentra with 306,000
miles on it, still getting about 3500 miles to the quart of oil at present.
Cars treated this way:
1975 VW rabbit
1978 Plymouth Horizon
1980 Mitsubishi Sedan (bought used)
1983 Nissan Stanza
1987 Nissan Stanza
1992 Nissan Sentra
1993 Plymouth Voyager (bought used)

Why should I not continue this practice?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------
While synthetic oil will retain its lubricating properties well past
why dyno oil will break down, 20k is pushing the edge of the envelope.

What change interval to use is primarily a function of driving
conditions. A vehicle that sees mostly urban driving (lots of short,
low speed trips) needs a shorter interval than a vehicle that sees a
mostly rural driving. That's because an urban cycle may not allow the
engine to reach the temperatures necessary to boil off combustion
blowby condensates, which leads to sludge formation. In cooler weather
it may take 20-30 minutes of sustained highway speed driving for all
of the engine to reach the temperatures necessary to boil off the
condensates.

In extreme cases of purely urban driving, oil & filter changes every
3k may be necessary.

"spaco" wrote in message
.. .

Well, since you ask, what makes you think that the 3000 mile interval was
any more than a CYA effort on the part of the mfr? I firmly believe that
THEY realize that it's easier to get the average driver to CHANGE the oil
than to check it and add. They have to cover themselves for the worst
case driver and for the ones that make the shortest trips, all with one
number.

Read your owners manual- it will have two service schedules: normal and
severe.

Here's a question of my own:
How many of you who DO cahnge regularly keep careful track of the oil
consumption between those 3000 mile intervals? The people I know who
change that frequently simply pull the plug and haven't the slightest idea
how the engine is doing anyway.

Unless you are pulling an oil sample every X hours or miles, you have no
idea what the _actual_ condition of the engine is.
As engines age, blowby can cause the oil level to go up- we used to see it
with cars that did a lot of short trips. Unburned fuel would collect in the
sump, raising the oil level on the dipstick. Some times the oil would be so
diluted that it could be lit on fire. Without an oil analysis, it is
impossible to know if the stuff in the sump is oil, oil and unburned fuel,
or Gawd knows what. And if you don't know what it is, you cannot say with
any certainly how much oil the engine is consuming.

All motor oils are more than slippery stuff- they have anti-corrosion and
anti-foam additives that will wear out over time. I live in the Northeast
where the internal engine microclimate temp can go from 200 degF to -20 degF
in a couple of hours, so condensation and corrosion protection is important.

Your extended oil-change interval experience doesn't prove anything without
a complete new-to-now oil analysis history.

-Carl

spaco wrote:

I have been changing oil every 20,000 to 50,000 miles in my cars since
1975, using synthetic oil. I change filters with every oil change.
We have never had an oil pan or head off any car, nor has the gas
mileage gone south before we traded them in or moved them down the line
to relatives. The first car to get this treatment was a 1975 VW rabbit
(traded at 120,000) and the latest is a 1992 Nissan Sentra with 306,000
miles on it, still getting about 3500 miles to the quart of oil at present.


I guess it is your money and your choice. I'm a 3000-4000 mile guy. I use
regular oil and a new filter. My Ford Ranger went 236,500 before a ring
cracked with no engine work.

My Saturn has 144,000 on it and uses oil. Not much in winter but about 1 qt
per 1000 in summer. It has been doing that for the last 90,000 miles.
Doesn't smoke, I've done the seafoam and and the MMO (marvel mystery oil)
soak to clean the rings w/o any change.

This time of the year it gets 32MPG, goes to 35-36MPG whenever it is warm
outside.

I'm not sure how effective filters are at filtering out stuff that wants to
abrade your rubbing surfaces but I know replacing the oil starts over with
un-contaminated oil.

Synthetics are supposed to be better lubricants but unless you are willing
to take two cars (or 60 to be statistically relevent) and do an a/b test
running regular oil to 20,000 vs synthetics you don't have any real data.

I'll keep using house brand oil that meets or exceeds API ratings and change
it often and I won't tell you that you are wrong for doing it your way.

Factors such has how you drive your car as in full throttle from a cold
start and such likely have a huge impact on engine life. I tend to get
going soon after the engine starts but I drive slow and easy for the first
couple miles as the engine warms up (rural area). Some nights if you try to
take off when it is cold, the engine sounds like a diesel from piston slap
and that can not be good.

Wes

spaco wrote:

Well, since you ask, what makes you think that the 3000 mile interval
was any more than a CYA effort on the part of the mfr? ...

How did *you* decide on the 20 - 50k interval that you say you use? Why
not 100k? Why ever change it? Oh, "contaminants build up". How fast?
How do you know how fast? And what is the effect of those
contaminants? There's a lot of things to consider.

But, I suspect that you're right, or close to right. That the 3000 mile
is very conservative. And those who cite that they always change at
3000 and their cars go 500,000 miles are confusing "necessary" and
"sufficient". That the 3000 mile interval was sufficient to get 500,000
miles doesn't mean that it was necessary.

Bob

On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:01:04 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

spaco wrote:

Well, since you ask, what makes you think that the 3000 mile interval
was any more than a CYA effort on the part of the mfr? ...

How did *you* decide on the 20 - 50k interval that you say you use? Why
not 100k? Why ever change it? Oh, "contaminants build up". How fast?
How do you know how fast? And what is the effect of those
contaminants? There's a lot of things to consider.

But, I suspect that you're right, or close to right. That the 3000 mile
is very conservative. And those who cite that they always change at
3000 and their cars go 500,000 miles are confusing "necessary" and
"sufficient". That the 3000 mile interval was sufficient to get 500,000
miles doesn't mean that it was necessary.

Bob


I average 5000-6000 miles between oil changes. Most of my miles are
hiway miles in a temperate climate and very little "off road"

Fram filters (may think about changing to Wix) and a Hi-Mileage motor
oil.

I now change my antifreeze a bit more often than I did, since I found
out if you leave it in for 150,000, it eats the head gaskets and the
impeller in the water pump.

Gunner