Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Rex Rex is offline
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Default What type of toolpost block is this?

I found this among my Aloris style blocks, and it's foreign to me.
Can anyone identify it?

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/

filename is 'tool block cutoff 004a.jpg'
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Default What type of toolpost block is this?

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:38:27 -0600, Rex wrote:

I found this among my Aloris style blocks, and it's foreign to me.
Can anyone identify it?

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/

filename is 'tool block cutoff 004a.jpg'



Hey Rex,

Not a lot of help, but it is somewhat similar to a Dickson I have on a
15" lathe. The one you have has squares guides, where mine has
EXTERNAL V's , not internal like an Aloris or Phase II type.

Aloris and Phase II styles are locked in place by dropping them onto
the tool-post until bottoming the adjusting collar atop the
tool-holder, and rotating the locking handle on the tool post, which
in turn "pushes" the holding/locking cam "out" against the back of the
tool-block and jams it tightly into the V-grooves. The locking handle
is centralized on the tool-post and turning it forces ALL in turn,
usually only two placements. You can't lock two tool-holder blocks on
at once, as the cam is extending one "pusher" as it retracting the
other(s).

The Dickson operates slightly differently. Mine can hold three
different tool-holder blocks at one time (three faces), and I believe
some can do four or more. The tool-holder block is dropped onto a
vacant side, into the slots on the tool-post, and the tool-holder
drops down until the adjusting collar/ring comes to the stop/lock cam
slightly above the tool-post top. Without a pix to send you, it is a
bit difficult to explain what that is. Anyway, when the tool-holder
is in position, the individual locking cam is turned, and it forces a
cam/piston IN to lock the block in place, and at the same time grabs
above and below the adjusting collar/ring to REALLY set the tool
height to the place you adjusted it to at some previous time. This
allows as many cutting tools as you can fit without interfering with
one another.

If you still really want to see one, I'll take some pix of mine and
sent them to you.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
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Default What type of toolpost block is this?

On 2008-02-25, Rex wrote:
I found this among my Aloris style blocks, and it's foreign to me.
Can anyone identify it?

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/

filename is 'tool block cutoff 004a.jpg'


Hmm ... first, that may have been the name when you submitted
it, but the name has been automatically changed to
"tool_block_cutoff_004a.jpg" because spaces in file names are awkward on
some systems.

Also, you are lacking the requested ".txt" file named to match
the others to help people who stumble across it years from now to
understand *why* it is there.

Second -- I don't think that is an Aloris, with the "T-slot" in
place of the dovetail. It would have been interesting to include a
second and perhaps third viewpoint, but that would only be to see how
much the rest of it resembled an Aloris. The height adjusting nut and
lock nut seem to lack the keyed washer between them common with true
Aloris toolposts.

I suspect that it was a homebrew form of quick-change holder for
a homebrew toolpost.

Put it on eBay (with dimensions and the note that it is *not*
dovetailed Aloris style, even though it looks like one at first glance.
You'll probably find someone who has a matching toolpost --or who thinks
that he does. :-)

If the parting blade angle is reversed, it might even work well
with a home-made rear mount toolpost specifically for parting off. I
might even try to make a matching post myself for that. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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Default What type of toolpost block is this?

On 2008-02-26, Brian Lawson wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:38:27 -0600, Rex wrote:

I found this among my Aloris style blocks, and it's foreign to me.
Can anyone identify it?

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/

filename is 'tool block cutoff 004a.jpg'



Hey Rex,

Not a lot of help, but it is somewhat similar to a Dickson I have on a
15" lathe. The one you have has squares guides, where mine has
EXTERNAL V's , not internal like an Aloris or Phase II type.

Aloris and Phase II styles are locked in place by dropping them onto
the tool-post until bottoming the adjusting collar atop the
tool-holder, and rotating the locking handle on the tool post, which
in turn "pushes" the holding/locking cam "out" against the back of the
tool-block and jams it tightly into the V-grooves. The locking handle
is centralized on the tool-post and turning it forces ALL in turn,
usually only two placements. You can't lock two tool-holder blocks on
at once, as the cam is extending one "pusher" as it retracting the
other(s).


That depends on the version. What you are describing is the
"piston" style, while most Aloris genuine ones are "wedge" style, which
works by making the dovetail wider and thus drawing in the toolholder to
firmly press against the toolpost, instead of pushing it out and
depending on the wings of the dovetail for rigidity. Almost all modern
Aloris toolposts are wedge style, though they *did* make a piston style
one in the earlier years. Most of the clones are offered in your choice
of piston style (cheaper) or wedge style (more expensive). I got the
wedge style, and am glad that I did.

However, the precise point at which the dovetail is wide enough
to lock up is probably slightly different between two holders on
different dovetails, and the tools interfere with each other anyway, so
one holder at a time is still the rule, even with the wedge style
toolpost.

Note that a piston style toolpost allows the locking handle to
rotate a full 360 degrees around the toolpost when there is no tool
holder installed -- and it has been known to get the handle and knob
into the path of the chuck jaws. The wedge style has a limited swing
for the handle of something like 120 degrees.

The Dickson operates slightly differently. Mine can hold three
different tool-holder blocks at one time (three faces), and I believe
some can do four or more. The tool-holder block is dropped onto a
vacant side, into the slots on the tool-post, and the tool-holder
drops down until the adjusting collar/ring comes to the stop/lock cam
slightly above the tool-post top. Without a pix to send you, it is a
bit difficult to explain what that is. Anyway, when the tool-holder
is in position, the individual locking cam is turned, and it forces a
cam/piston IN to lock the block in place, and at the same time grabs
above and below the adjusting collar/ring to REALLY set the tool
height to the place you adjusted it to at some previous time. This
allows as many cutting tools as you can fit without interfering with
one another.


The "interfering with each other" is the problem. I have a
Dickson style which is smaller -- for an Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC lathe,
and it has only two stations, but I can still only use one at a time.
One station is for turning, the other for boring and facing, so the
tools point in directions to cross and interfere with each other.

I guess that with a three-station toolpost, you could mount two
tools on the opposite stations, leaving the boring/facing station empty.
I'm not sure how useful that would be, however.

If you still really want to see one, I'll take some pix of mine and
sent them to you.


There have been recent discussions of this very style, with
links posted pointing to images, so just go back and look at the series
of articles about a Clausing 5914 lathe (which the poster received with
a Dickson style toolpost -- much beat up as it turns out).

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
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Default What type of toolpost block is this?

[...]
The Dickson operates slightly differently. Mine can hold three
different tool-holder blocks at one time (three faces), and I believe
some can do four or more. The tool-holder block is dropped onto a
vacant side, into the slots on the tool-post, and the tool-holder
drops down until the adjusting collar/ring comes to the stop/lock cam
slightly above the tool-post top. Without a pix to send you, it is a
bit difficult to explain what that is. Anyway, when the tool-holder
is in position, the individual locking cam is turned, and it forces a
cam/piston IN to lock the block in place, and at the same time grabs
above and below the adjusting collar/ring to REALLY set the tool
height to the place you adjusted it to at some previous time. This
allows as many cutting tools as you can fit without interfering with
one another.


The "interfering with each other" is the problem. I have a
Dickson style which is smaller -- for an Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC lathe,
and it has only two stations, but I can still only use one at a time.
One station is for turning, the other for boring and facing, so the
tools point in directions to cross and interfere with each other.

I guess that with a three-station toolpost, you could mount two
tools on the opposite stations, leaving the boring/facing station empty.
I'm not sure how useful that would be, however.


I do a job occasionally in which I save some machining steps by having 2
toolholders in the Dickson, one slung so one tool passes slightly under
the other. The part has a recess in one end and a shoulder the other, I
use a trepanning tool to form the recess and shoulder, in separate ops,
and so bring the tool in along the lathe axis. I have a chamfering tool
slung under the trepanning tool so it cuts a chamfer on the OD on the
face with the recess and at the edge of the shoulder. Takes little time
to set-up and saves quite a bit of time compared to swapping out the
toolholders for the trepanning and chamfering ops.

I thought you last post of 5:39 on the machine screw thread excellent
and summed up everything very well with regards the general feeling with
the facts or lack of them given by the OP. I probably shan't make any
further contribution there as the OP seems to be unwilling to clarify
the breakage situation.

If you still really want to see one, I'll take some pix of mine and
sent them to you.


There have been recent discussions of this very style, with
links posted pointing to images, so just go back and look at the series
of articles about a Clausing 5914 lathe (which the poster received with
a Dickson style toolpost -- much beat up as it turns out).

Enjoy,
DoN.




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Default What type of toolpost block is this?

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2008-02-25, Rex wrote:
I found this among my Aloris style blocks, and it's foreign to me.
Can anyone identify it?

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/

filename is 'tool block cutoff 004a.jpg'


Hmm ... first, that may have been the name when you submitted
it, but the name has been automatically changed to
"tool_block_cutoff_004a.jpg" because spaces in file names are awkward on
some systems.


Yep, got the auto-email

Also, you are lacking the requested ".txt" file named to match
the others to help people who stumble across it years from now to
understand *why* it is there.


It was uploaded with the JPG file. Shrug. I'll repost

Second -- I don't think that is an Aloris, with the "T-slot" in
place of the dovetail. It would have been interesting to include a
second and perhaps third viewpoint, but that would only be to see how
much the rest of it resembled an Aloris. The height adjusting nut and
lock nut seem to lack the keyed washer between them common with true
Aloris toolposts.


I know it's not an Aloris. i have an Aloris and a Phase II.

I suspect that it was a homebrew form of quick-change holder for
a homebrew toolpost.


Possible, as it has no markings anywhere on it. It's very well made though.

Put it on eBay (with dimensions and the note that it is *not*
dovetailed Aloris style, even though it looks like one at first glance.
You'll probably find someone who has a matching toolpost --or who thinks
that he does. :-)


That's probably what I'll do, but I figured if I could identify it,
someone here or on one of the forums would recognize it and I could do a
swap. At any rate, ebay results are always better with a positive ID.

If the parting blade angle is reversed, it might even work well
with a home-made rear mount toolpost specifically for parting off. I
might even try to make a matching post myself for that. :-)


I'm pretty sure it's in the normal orientation for front-side parting.
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Default What type of toolpost block is this?

One more time, reposted as tool_block_cutoff.jpg and .txt

Rex wrote:
I found this among my Aloris style blocks, and it's foreign to me.
Can anyone identify it?

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/

filename is 'tool block cutoff 004a.jpg'

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Default What type of toolpost block is this?

On 2008-02-26, David Billington wrote:
[...]


[ ... ]

The "interfering with each other" is the problem. I have a
Dickson style which is smaller -- for an Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC lathe,
and it has only two stations, but I can still only use one at a time.
One station is for turning, the other for boring and facing, so the
tools point in directions to cross and interfere with each other.

I guess that with a three-station toolpost, you could mount two
tools on the opposite stations, leaving the boring/facing station empty.
I'm not sure how useful that would be, however.


I do a job occasionally in which I save some machining steps by having 2
toolholders in the Dickson, one slung so one tool passes slightly under
the other. The part has a recess in one end and a shoulder the other, I
use a trepanning tool to form the recess and shoulder, in separate ops,
and so bring the tool in along the lathe axis. I have a chamfering tool
slung under the trepanning tool so it cuts a chamfer on the OD on the
face with the recess and at the edge of the shoulder. Takes little time
to set-up and saves quite a bit of time compared to swapping out the
toolholders for the trepanning and chamfering ops.


O.K. That sounds like an intersting way to use them, and for
the chamfering, the below center would only somewhat change the angle of
the chamfer.

I thought you last post of 5:39 on the machine screw thread excellent
and summed up everything very well with regards the general feeling with
the facts or lack of them given by the OP. I probably shan't make any
further contribution there as the OP seems to be unwilling to clarify
the breakage situation.


Agreed. I'm getting close to killfiling him, because I remember
him coming in with some other question some time ago, and being
similarly confrontational.

Not sure about the 5:39 post time. I was posting between about
8:00 PM and perhaps 1:00 AM -- but it may be that your newsreader is
translating the date/time information for your specific locale. Since
you are in the UK, there would be about a five hour difference. Right
now, it is 10:46 PM local time, and 3:46 AM GMT, so a posting somewhat
after midnight here would have been posted somewhat after 5:00 AM there.
I'm too deep into the reply to check your newsreader in the headers.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
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Default What type of toolpost block is this?

On 2008-02-26, Rex wrote:
One more time, reposted as tool_block_cutoff.jpg and .txt


It may have rejected the new image, but it accepted the ".txt"
so you are fine now. (Though a photo of the other side would be nice.)

Enjoy,
DoN.

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