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Default Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update

It is the toolpost mechanism that's bent, allowing the toolholders to
unseat. Specifically, two of the three T-shaped plates that pull the
toolholder down onto the ways was visibly bent, preventing full clamping
of the holder to the post. The T-plate in the least-used position is
unbent. No wonder the holders became unseated under cutting force. The
"bolt" does not appear to be bent.

I figured this out 5 minutes after running the lathe with the new
overhead fluorescent lamp operating. Before installing the light
fixture, I really couldn't see that well, and didn't realize how much I
was missing. The toolholder was always unseating, but not enough to be
seen before, but enough to cause all manner of machining problems. The
fixture was $40 from Home Despot.

I have pretty much given up on the Dickson-style toolpost that came with
the lathe. It's just too beaten and worn and damaged to be worth
fixing, although the attempt has been educational. I have ordered the
smallest Aloris BXA set.

Joe Gwinn
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Default Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
It is the toolpost mechanism that's bent, allowing the toolholders to
unseat. Specifically, two of the three T-shaped plates that pull the
toolholder down onto the ways was visibly bent, preventing full clamping
of the holder to the post. The T-plate in the least-used position is
unbent. No wonder the holders became unseated under cutting force. The
"bolt" does not appear to be bent.

I figured this out 5 minutes after running the lathe with the new
overhead fluorescent lamp operating. Before installing the light
fixture, I really couldn't see that well, and didn't realize how much I
was missing. The toolholder was always unseating, but not enough to be
seen before, but enough to cause all manner of machining problems. The
fixture was $40 from Home Despot.

I have pretty much given up on the Dickson-style toolpost that came with
the lathe. It's just too beaten and worn and damaged to be worth
fixing, although the attempt has been educational. I have ordered the
smallest Aloris BXA set.

Joe Gwinn

If only tools could talk that toolpost probably has some nasty tales to
tell by the sound of its condition. My 2nd hand Dickson has no problems
that I am aware of. I have crashed the Toolmex Dickson copy once and
unseated the tool holder but apart from breaking part of the flange that
sets the height at the top of the clamping eccentric no other damage
seems to have occurred. From the sound of the state it does sound like a
better option is to replace it as I expect the spares might cost a
significant part of a new replacement of a design more common in the US.
Thinking about it my Harrison did come with a couple of spare parts for
the Dickson post, I expect these were old worn parts, not really looked
at them much as they live in the storage compartment and as the toolpost
has always worked as expected I haven't bothered to examine them.
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Default Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update

In article ,
David Billington wrote:

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
It is the toolpost mechanism that's bent, allowing the toolholders to
unseat. Specifically, two of the three T-shaped plates that pull the
toolholder down onto the ways was visibly bent, preventing full clamping
of the holder to the post. The T-plate in the least-used position is
unbent. No wonder the holders became unseated under cutting force. The
"bolt" does not appear to be bent.

I figured this out 5 minutes after running the lathe with the new
overhead fluorescent lamp operating. Before installing the light
fixture, I really couldn't see that well, and didn't realize how much I
was missing. The toolholder was always unseating, but not enough to be
seen before, but enough to cause all manner of machining problems. The
[light] fixture was $40 from Home Despot.

I have pretty much given up on the Dickson-style toolpost that came with
the lathe. It's just too beaten and worn and damaged to be worth
fixing, although the attempt has been educational. I have ordered the
smallest Aloris BXA set.

Joe Gwinn

If only tools could talk that toolpost probably has some nasty tales to
tell by the sound of its condition. My 2nd hand Dickson has no problems
that I am aware of. I have crashed the Toolmex Dickson copy once and
unseated the tool holder but apart from breaking part of the flange that
sets the height at the top of the clamping eccentric no other damage
seems to have occurred.


There are dings from clamping without wiping the chips away as well. Th
think this toolpost and holders set has seen *lots* of use, and abuse.
I'm sure that a number of crashes are in that history.


From the sound of the state it does sound like a
better option is to replace it as I expect the spares might cost a
significant part of a new replacement of a design more common in the US.


That's my impression as well, and Aloris gets glowing reports.


Thinking about it my Harrison did come with a couple of spare parts for
the Dickson post, I expect these were old worn parts, not really looked
at them much as they live in the storage compartment and as the toolpost
has always worked as expected I haven't bothered to examine them.


Put a straightedge on the outside surface of the T-shaped plate. It
ought to be flat. On mine, it was quite obviously out of flat, the arms
of the T being bent up, and the metal that bears on the toolholder
visibly upset. I doubt that replacement parts are available for mine,
which appears to have outlived its maker. Time to start over.

Joe Gwinn
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Default Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
David Billington wrote:


Joseph Gwinn wrote:

It is the toolpost mechanism that's bent, allowing the toolholders to
unseat. Specifically, two of the three T-shaped plates that pull the
toolholder down onto the ways was visibly bent, preventing full clamping
of the holder to the post. The T-plate in the least-used position is
unbent. No wonder the holders became unseated under cutting force. The
"bolt" does not appear to be bent.

I figured this out 5 minutes after running the lathe with the new
overhead fluorescent lamp operating. Before installing the light
fixture, I really couldn't see that well, and didn't realize how much I
was missing. The toolholder was always unseating, but not enough to be
seen before, but enough to cause all manner of machining problems. The
[light] fixture was $40 from Home Despot.

I have pretty much given up on the Dickson-style toolpost that came with
the lathe. It's just too beaten and worn and damaged to be worth
fixing, although the attempt has been educational. I have ordered the
smallest Aloris BXA set.

Joe Gwinn


If only tools could talk that toolpost probably has some nasty tales to
tell by the sound of its condition. My 2nd hand Dickson has no problems
that I am aware of. I have crashed the Toolmex Dickson copy once and
unseated the tool holder but apart from breaking part of the flange that
sets the height at the top of the clamping eccentric no other damage
seems to have occurred.


There are dings from clamping without wiping the chips away as well. Th
think this toolpost and holders set has seen *lots* of use, and abuse.
I'm sure that a number of crashes are in that history.



From the sound of the state it does sound like a
better option is to replace it as I expect the spares might cost a
significant part of a new replacement of a design more common in the US.


That's my impression as well, and Aloris gets glowing reports.



Thinking about it my Harrison did come with a couple of spare parts for
the Dickson post, I expect these were old worn parts, not really looked
at them much as they live in the storage compartment and as the toolpost
has always worked as expected I haven't bothered to examine them.


Put a straightedge on the outside surface of the T-shaped plate. It
ought to be flat. On mine, it was quite obviously out of flat, the arms
of the T being bent up, and the metal that bears on the toolholder
visibly upset. I doubt that replacement parts are available for mine,
which appears to have outlived its maker. Time to start over.

Joe Gwinn

Just done that and all 8 T pieces seem to be flat and the holders
undamaged in the clamping area. One T piece closest to the chuck has
obviously met it on occasion as it has some evidence of an arc worn
slightly into the surface but otherwise OK. The T piece I crashed is
flat even though that incident broke a small part off the flange at the
top of the eccentric pin. The spare parts included 2 T pieces, both
flat, one complete eccentric shaft, and the bit of eccentric shaft that
fits in the T piece, both ends having been broken off.

Shame you're in the US and the holders are in a state from what you said
before. The Dickson holders always seems to fetch good money in the UK
on ebay. Luckily having had the Toolmex version and then bought the
Harrison with a Dickson and holders I now have 5 which will take 22mm
height tool and a couple of ones to take round or square to about 17mm.
I haven't found a use for the Morse taper holder yet. That allows me to
keep the commonly used tools set-up with a couple over to set-up with
other tools as required.

Anyway good luck on your choice of a new toolpost and let us know how it
goes.
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Default Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update

In article ,
David Billington wrote:

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
David Billington wrote:


Joseph Gwinn wrote:

It is the toolpost mechanism that's bent, allowing the toolholders to
unseat. Specifically, two of the three T-shaped plates that pull the
toolholder down onto the ways was visibly bent, preventing full clamping
of the holder to the post. The T-plate in the least-used position is
unbent. No wonder the holders became unseated under cutting force. The
"bolt" does not appear to be bent.

I figured this out 5 minutes after running the lathe with the new
overhead fluorescent lamp operating. Before installing the light
fixture, I really couldn't see that well, and didn't realize how much I
was missing. The toolholder was always unseating, but not enough to be
seen before, but enough to cause all manner of machining problems. The
[light] fixture was $40 from Home Despot.

I have pretty much given up on the Dickson-style toolpost that came with
the lathe. It's just too beaten and worn and damaged to be worth
fixing, although the attempt has been educational. I have ordered the
smallest Aloris BXA set.

Joe Gwinn


If only tools could talk that toolpost probably has some nasty tales to
tell by the sound of its condition. My 2nd hand Dickson has no problems
that I am aware of. I have crashed the Toolmex Dickson copy once and
unseated the tool holder but apart from breaking part of the flange that
sets the height at the top of the clamping eccentric no other damage
seems to have occurred.


There are dings from clamping without wiping the chips away as well. Th
think this toolpost and holders set has seen *lots* of use, and abuse.
I'm sure that a number of crashes are in that history.



From the sound of the state it does sound like a
better option is to replace it as I expect the spares might cost a
significant part of a new replacement of a design more common in the US.


That's my impression as well, and Aloris gets glowing reports.



Thinking about it my Harrison did come with a couple of spare parts for
the Dickson post, I expect these were old worn parts, not really looked
at them much as they live in the storage compartment and as the toolpost
has always worked as expected I haven't bothered to examine them.


Put a straightedge on the outside surface of the T-shaped plate. It
ought to be flat. On mine, it was quite obviously out of flat, the arms
of the T being bent up, and the metal that bears on the toolholder
visibly upset. I doubt that replacement parts are available for mine,
which appears to have outlived its maker. Time to start over.

Joe Gwinn

Just done that and all 8 T pieces seem to be flat and the holders
undamaged in the clamping area. One T piece closest to the chuck has
obviously met it on occasion as it has some evidence of an arc worn
slightly into the surface but otherwise OK. The T piece I crashed is
flat even though that incident broke a small part off the flange at the
top of the eccentric pin. The spare parts included 2 T pieces, both
flat, one complete eccentric shaft, and the bit of eccentric shaft that
fits in the T piece, both ends having been broken off.


In the holders I have, none has the spool-shaped adjuster nut. I would
assume that they were removed, but I don't know why.


Shame you're in the US and the holders are in a state from what you said
before. The Dickson holders always seems to fetch good money in the UK
on ebay. Luckily having had the Toolmex version and then bought the
Harrison with a Dickson and holders I now have 5 which will take 22mm
height tool and a couple of ones to take round or square to about 17mm.
I haven't found a use for the Morse taper holder yet. That allows me to
keep the commonly used tools set-up with a couple over to set-up with
other tools as required.


I'm also suspicious that the Dickson toolpost I have is too small for
the Clausing 5914 lathe.


Anyway good luck on your choice of a new toolpost and let us know how it
goes.


Thanks. It should arrive this week, although I will be away from my
shop this weekend.

Joe Gwinn


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Default Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update

[...]


Just done that and all 8 T pieces seem to be flat and the holders
undamaged in the clamping area. One T piece closest to the chuck has
obviously met it on occasion as it has some evidence of an arc worn
slightly into the surface but otherwise OK. The T piece I crashed is
flat even though that incident broke a small part off the flange at the
top of the eccentric pin. The spare parts included 2 T pieces, both
flat, one complete eccentric shaft, and the bit of eccentric shaft that
fits in the T piece, both ends having been broken off.


In the holders I have, none has the spool-shaped adjuster nut. I would
assume that they were removed, but I don't know why.


I think this has been mentioned before but not much point in having a
quick change tool holder with those nuts missing as you can't just throw
it into place and have the height correct.


Shame you're in the US and the holders are in a state from what you said
before. The Dickson holders always seems to fetch good money in the UK
on ebay. Luckily having had the Toolmex version and then bought the
Harrison with a Dickson and holders I now have 5 which will take 22mm
height tool and a couple of ones to take round or square to about 17mm.
I haven't found a use for the Morse taper holder yet. That allows me to
keep the commonly used tools set-up with a couple over to set-up with
other tools as required.


I'm also suspicious that the Dickson toolpost I have is too small for
the Clausing 5914 lathe.


I have looked at www.lathes.co.uk which is normally a good source of
info on lathes but it doesn't seem to mention the Clausing 5914, maybe
some rare variant of a more common Clausing. Any way another search
showed the 5914 to be a 12" lathe and I have a Kerry 11" and the M300 is
13", both are fitted with a Dickson toolpost and holder width of 73mm (2
7/8") and the height is 63mm (2.5") and that seems appropriate and was
given as suitable when I bought the Toolmex for the Kerry. Dickson do a
smaler size IIRC so maybe that is what you have.


Anyway good luck on your choice of a new toolpost and let us know how it
goes.


Thanks. It should arrive this week, although I will be away from my
shop this weekend.

Joe Gwinn

Ahh mental anguish until you get home to play again.


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Default Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
xture was $40 from Home Despot.

I have pretty much given up on the Dickson-style toolpost that came with
the lathe. It's just too beaten and worn and damaged to be worth
fixing, although the attempt has been educational. I have ordered the
smallest Aloris BXA set.

Joe Gwinn


You will be much happier in the long run.

Regards
Paul


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Default Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update

On 2008-02-25, David Billington wrote:
Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
David Billington wrote:


Joseph Gwinn wrote:

It is the toolpost mechanism that's bent, allowing the toolholders to
unseat. Specifically, two of the three T-shaped plates that pull the
toolholder down onto the ways was visibly bent, preventing full clamping
of the holder to the post. The T-plate in the least-used position is
unbent. No wonder the holders became unseated under cutting force. The
"bolt" does not appear to be bent.


Hmm ... why not examine the wrench. I suspect that you will
discover that there are dings on the handle from someone using a
"cheater pipe" on it. A pity, because they are otherwise good
toolposts and holders.

[ ... ]

From the sound of the state it does sound like a
better option is to replace it as I expect the spares might cost a
significant part of a new replacement of a design more common in the US.


That's my impression as well, and Aloris gets glowing reports.


Yes -- with the Phase-II being not too bad as cheap
replacements, especially if you replace the setscrews in the holders
with "Made in USA" ones. (Good European ones would be good too, but
unlikely to show up at the usual vendors here.) I got my set of screws
from MSC - a full box of 100, and have never needed to go beyond the
original replacement.

[ ... ]

Put a straightedge on the outside surface of the T-shaped plate. It
ought to be flat. On mine, it was quite obviously out of flat, the arms
of the T being bent up, and the metal that bears on the toolholder
visibly upset. I doubt that replacement parts are available for mine,
which appears to have outlived its maker. Time to start over.


[ ... ]

Just done that and all 8 T pieces seem to be flat and the holders
undamaged in the clamping area. One T piece closest to the chuck has
obviously met it on occasion as it has some evidence of an arc worn
slightly into the surface but otherwise OK. The T piece I crashed is
flat even though that incident broke a small part off the flange at the
top of the eccentric pin. The spare parts included 2 T pieces, both
flat, one complete eccentric shaft, and the bit of eccentric shaft that
fits in the T piece, both ends having been broken off.


I suspect that the failure of the ones Joe has came from the use
of a cheater pipe on the eccentric wrench. (Hmm ... I wonder whether
the same was done with *your* broken eccentric?

Shame you're in the US and the holders are in a state from what you said
before. The Dickson holders always seems to fetch good money in the UK
on ebay. Luckily having had the Toolmex version and then bought the
Harrison with a Dickson and holders I now have 5 which will take 22mm
height tool and a couple of ones to take round or square to about 17mm.
I haven't found a use for the Morse taper holder yet. That allows me to
keep the commonly used tools set-up with a couple over to set-up with
other tools as required.


I've used the Morse taper holder (for BXA, not for Dickson) for
holding a drill chuck for power drilling through a workpiece at lager
sizes like 1", or for holding a Morse taper mount cut knurling tool for
experimentation. I've got the Morse taper to cylinder socket for the
turret for serious use, of course.

Anyway good luck on your choice of a new toolpost and let us know how it
goes.


Indeed so.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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Default Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update

In article ,
David Billington wrote:

[...]


Just done that and all 8 T pieces seem to be flat and the holders
undamaged in the clamping area. One T piece closest to the chuck has
obviously met it on occasion as it has some evidence of an arc worn
slightly into the surface but otherwise OK. The T piece I crashed is
flat even though that incident broke a small part off the flange at the
top of the eccentric pin. The spare parts included 2 T pieces, both
flat, one complete eccentric shaft, and the bit of eccentric shaft that
fits in the T piece, both ends having been broken off.


In the holders I have, none has the spool-shaped adjuster nut. I would
assume that they were removed, but I don't know why.


I think this has been mentioned before but not much point in having a
quick change tool holder with those nuts missing as you can't just throw
it into place and have the height correct.


Yep. Though it's not quite as fiddly as a lantern toolpost to adjust.


I'm also suspicious that the Dickson toolpost I have is too small for
the Clausing 5914 lathe.

I have looked at www.lathes.co.uk which is normally a good source of
info on lathes but it doesn't seem to mention the Clausing 5914, maybe
some rare variant of a more common Clausing. Any way another search
showed the 5914 to be a 12" lathe and I have a Kerry 11" and the M300 is
13", both are fitted with a Dickson toolpost and holder width of 73mm (2
7/8") and the height is 63mm (2.5") and that seems appropriate and was
given as suitable when I bought the Toolmex for the Kerry. Dickson do a
smaler size IIRC so maybe that is what you have.


The toolpost I have is 45mm high and 70mm on a side. The Clausing 5914
is indeed a 12" swing by 36" machine. Anyway, you seem to have a larger
Dickson toolpost than I, even though your lathes seem to have about the
same swing.

I have to hope that a crash on the Clausing won't destroy the BXA
toolpost, as crashes are inevitable. Especially while learning.


Anyway good luck on your choice of a new toolpost and let us know how it
goes.


Thanks. It should arrive this week, although I will be away from my
shop this weekend.

Ahh mental anguish until you get home to play again.


Well, with luck it will arrive in a day or so. Aloris is making the
T-nut, so with luck the I will be able to just slide it in and clamp it
down. So I could be able to cut *something*. And then stew, thinking
of the next project.

Joe Gwinn
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Default Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update

In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2008-02-25, David Billington wrote:
Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
David Billington wrote:


Joseph Gwinn wrote:

It is the toolpost mechanism that's bent, allowing the toolholders to
unseat. Specifically, two of the three T-shaped plates that pull the
toolholder down onto the ways was visibly bent, preventing full clamping
of the holder to the post. The T-plate in the least-used position is
unbent. No wonder the holders became unseated under cutting force. The
"bolt" does not appear to be bent.


Hmm ... why not examine the wrench. I suspect that you will
discover that there are dings on the handle from someone using a
"cheater pipe" on it. A pity, because they are otherwise good
toolposts and holders.


The wrench that came to me is pristine - no evidence of abuse. But see
below.


From the sound of the state it does sound like a
better option is to replace it as I expect the spares might cost a
significant part of a new replacement of a design more common in the US.


That's my impression as well, and Aloris gets glowing reports.


Yes -- with the Phase-II being not too bad as cheap
replacements, especially if you replace the setscrews in the holders
with "Made in USA" ones. (Good European ones would be good too, but
unlikely to show up at the usual vendors here.) I got my set of screws
from MSC - a full box of 100, and have never needed to go beyond the
original replacement.


This seems to be universal. It will be a few years before Chindia
figures out how to make good steel.


Put a straightedge on the outside surface of the T-shaped plate. It
ought to be flat. On mine, it was quite obviously out of flat, the arms
of the T being bent up, and the metal that bears on the toolholder
visibly upset. I doubt that replacement parts are available for mine,
which appears to have outlived its maker. Time to start over.


[ ... ]

Just done that and all 8 T pieces seem to be flat and the holders
undamaged in the clamping area. One T piece closest to the chuck has
obviously met it on occasion as it has some evidence of an arc worn
slightly into the surface but otherwise OK. The T piece I crashed is
flat even though that incident broke a small part off the flange at the
top of the eccentric pin. The spare parts included 2 T pieces, both
flat, one complete eccentric shaft, and the bit of eccentric shaft that
fits in the T piece, both ends having been broken off.


I suspect that the failure of the ones Joe has came from the use
of a cheater pipe on the eccentric wrench. (Hmm ... I wonder whether
the same was done with *your* broken eccentric?


That was probably not the reason, which is far simpler: The toolpost is
too small for the lathe. When I got it, the toolpost was spaced above
the cross slide by two pieces of 0.250" hot rolled steel, and this left
the toolpost too low. When I made a spacer, I used 0.75" thick CRS, and
even so it wasn't quite thick enough.

The aloris BXA is basically a cube 70mm on a side, versus 45mm high by
70mm square for the Dickson.

What I suspect happened is that people (probably the weld shop folk) had
the holder way too high in the toolpost, with half of the holder
sticking up above the toolpost, and a crash forced the holder out of the
toolpost, bending the T-plates in the process. What should have
happened instead is that tool should have snapped off, without damage to
the toolpost and holder. But the cockamamie setup generated lots of
leverage, so the toolpost lost the encounter.

The Aloris certainly seems robust enough to break a toolbit or bar.


Shame you're in the US and the holders are in a state from what you said
before. The Dickson holders always seems to fetch good money in the UK
on ebay. Luckily having had the Toolmex version and then bought the
Harrison with a Dickson and holders I now have 5 which will take 22mm
height tool and a couple of ones to take round or square to about 17mm.
I haven't found a use for the Morse taper holder yet. That allows me to
keep the commonly used tools set-up with a couple over to set-up with
other tools as required.


I've used the Morse taper holder (for BXA, not for Dickson) for
holding a drill chuck for power drilling through a workpiece at lager
sizes like 1", or for holding a Morse taper mount cut knurling tool for
experimentation. I've got the Morse taper to cylinder socket for the
turret for serious use, of course.

Anyway good luck on your choice of a new toolpost and let us know how it
goes.


Indeed so.


It arrived today. What a difference. More later.

Joe Gwinn
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