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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update
It is the toolpost mechanism that's bent, allowing the toolholders to
unseat. Specifically, two of the three T-shaped plates that pull the toolholder down onto the ways was visibly bent, preventing full clamping of the holder to the post. The T-plate in the least-used position is unbent. No wonder the holders became unseated under cutting force. The "bolt" does not appear to be bent. I figured this out 5 minutes after running the lathe with the new overhead fluorescent lamp operating. Before installing the light fixture, I really couldn't see that well, and didn't realize how much I was missing. The toolholder was always unseating, but not enough to be seen before, but enough to cause all manner of machining problems. The fixture was $40 from Home Despot. I have pretty much given up on the Dickson-style toolpost that came with the lathe. It's just too beaten and worn and damaged to be worth fixing, although the attempt has been educational. I have ordered the smallest Aloris BXA set. Joe Gwinn |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update
Joseph Gwinn wrote:
It is the toolpost mechanism that's bent, allowing the toolholders to unseat. Specifically, two of the three T-shaped plates that pull the toolholder down onto the ways was visibly bent, preventing full clamping of the holder to the post. The T-plate in the least-used position is unbent. No wonder the holders became unseated under cutting force. The "bolt" does not appear to be bent. I figured this out 5 minutes after running the lathe with the new overhead fluorescent lamp operating. Before installing the light fixture, I really couldn't see that well, and didn't realize how much I was missing. The toolholder was always unseating, but not enough to be seen before, but enough to cause all manner of machining problems. The fixture was $40 from Home Despot. I have pretty much given up on the Dickson-style toolpost that came with the lathe. It's just too beaten and worn and damaged to be worth fixing, although the attempt has been educational. I have ordered the smallest Aloris BXA set. Joe Gwinn If only tools could talk that toolpost probably has some nasty tales to tell by the sound of its condition. My 2nd hand Dickson has no problems that I am aware of. I have crashed the Toolmex Dickson copy once and unseated the tool holder but apart from breaking part of the flange that sets the height at the top of the clamping eccentric no other damage seems to have occurred. From the sound of the state it does sound like a better option is to replace it as I expect the spares might cost a significant part of a new replacement of a design more common in the US. Thinking about it my Harrison did come with a couple of spare parts for the Dickson post, I expect these were old worn parts, not really looked at them much as they live in the storage compartment and as the toolpost has always worked as expected I haven't bothered to examine them. |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update
In article ,
David Billington wrote: Joseph Gwinn wrote: It is the toolpost mechanism that's bent, allowing the toolholders to unseat. Specifically, two of the three T-shaped plates that pull the toolholder down onto the ways was visibly bent, preventing full clamping of the holder to the post. The T-plate in the least-used position is unbent. No wonder the holders became unseated under cutting force. The "bolt" does not appear to be bent. I figured this out 5 minutes after running the lathe with the new overhead fluorescent lamp operating. Before installing the light fixture, I really couldn't see that well, and didn't realize how much I was missing. The toolholder was always unseating, but not enough to be seen before, but enough to cause all manner of machining problems. The [light] fixture was $40 from Home Despot. I have pretty much given up on the Dickson-style toolpost that came with the lathe. It's just too beaten and worn and damaged to be worth fixing, although the attempt has been educational. I have ordered the smallest Aloris BXA set. Joe Gwinn If only tools could talk that toolpost probably has some nasty tales to tell by the sound of its condition. My 2nd hand Dickson has no problems that I am aware of. I have crashed the Toolmex Dickson copy once and unseated the tool holder but apart from breaking part of the flange that sets the height at the top of the clamping eccentric no other damage seems to have occurred. There are dings from clamping without wiping the chips away as well. Th think this toolpost and holders set has seen *lots* of use, and abuse. I'm sure that a number of crashes are in that history. From the sound of the state it does sound like a better option is to replace it as I expect the spares might cost a significant part of a new replacement of a design more common in the US. That's my impression as well, and Aloris gets glowing reports. Thinking about it my Harrison did come with a couple of spare parts for the Dickson post, I expect these were old worn parts, not really looked at them much as they live in the storage compartment and as the toolpost has always worked as expected I haven't bothered to examine them. Put a straightedge on the outside surface of the T-shaped plate. It ought to be flat. On mine, it was quite obviously out of flat, the arms of the T being bent up, and the metal that bears on the toolholder visibly upset. I doubt that replacement parts are available for mine, which appears to have outlived its maker. Time to start over. Joe Gwinn |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update
Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , David Billington wrote: Joseph Gwinn wrote: It is the toolpost mechanism that's bent, allowing the toolholders to unseat. Specifically, two of the three T-shaped plates that pull the toolholder down onto the ways was visibly bent, preventing full clamping of the holder to the post. The T-plate in the least-used position is unbent. No wonder the holders became unseated under cutting force. The "bolt" does not appear to be bent. I figured this out 5 minutes after running the lathe with the new overhead fluorescent lamp operating. Before installing the light fixture, I really couldn't see that well, and didn't realize how much I was missing. The toolholder was always unseating, but not enough to be seen before, but enough to cause all manner of machining problems. The [light] fixture was $40 from Home Despot. I have pretty much given up on the Dickson-style toolpost that came with the lathe. It's just too beaten and worn and damaged to be worth fixing, although the attempt has been educational. I have ordered the smallest Aloris BXA set. Joe Gwinn If only tools could talk that toolpost probably has some nasty tales to tell by the sound of its condition. My 2nd hand Dickson has no problems that I am aware of. I have crashed the Toolmex Dickson copy once and unseated the tool holder but apart from breaking part of the flange that sets the height at the top of the clamping eccentric no other damage seems to have occurred. There are dings from clamping without wiping the chips away as well. Th think this toolpost and holders set has seen *lots* of use, and abuse. I'm sure that a number of crashes are in that history. From the sound of the state it does sound like a better option is to replace it as I expect the spares might cost a significant part of a new replacement of a design more common in the US. That's my impression as well, and Aloris gets glowing reports. Thinking about it my Harrison did come with a couple of spare parts for the Dickson post, I expect these were old worn parts, not really looked at them much as they live in the storage compartment and as the toolpost has always worked as expected I haven't bothered to examine them. Put a straightedge on the outside surface of the T-shaped plate. It ought to be flat. On mine, it was quite obviously out of flat, the arms of the T being bent up, and the metal that bears on the toolholder visibly upset. I doubt that replacement parts are available for mine, which appears to have outlived its maker. Time to start over. Joe Gwinn Just done that and all 8 T pieces seem to be flat and the holders undamaged in the clamping area. One T piece closest to the chuck has obviously met it on occasion as it has some evidence of an arc worn slightly into the surface but otherwise OK. The T piece I crashed is flat even though that incident broke a small part off the flange at the top of the eccentric pin. The spare parts included 2 T pieces, both flat, one complete eccentric shaft, and the bit of eccentric shaft that fits in the T piece, both ends having been broken off. Shame you're in the US and the holders are in a state from what you said before. The Dickson holders always seems to fetch good money in the UK on ebay. Luckily having had the Toolmex version and then bought the Harrison with a Dickson and holders I now have 5 which will take 22mm height tool and a couple of ones to take round or square to about 17mm. I haven't found a use for the Morse taper holder yet. That allows me to keep the commonly used tools set-up with a couple over to set-up with other tools as required. Anyway good luck on your choice of a new toolpost and let us know how it goes. |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update
In article ,
David Billington wrote: Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , David Billington wrote: Joseph Gwinn wrote: It is the toolpost mechanism that's bent, allowing the toolholders to unseat. Specifically, two of the three T-shaped plates that pull the toolholder down onto the ways was visibly bent, preventing full clamping of the holder to the post. The T-plate in the least-used position is unbent. No wonder the holders became unseated under cutting force. The "bolt" does not appear to be bent. I figured this out 5 minutes after running the lathe with the new overhead fluorescent lamp operating. Before installing the light fixture, I really couldn't see that well, and didn't realize how much I was missing. The toolholder was always unseating, but not enough to be seen before, but enough to cause all manner of machining problems. The [light] fixture was $40 from Home Despot. I have pretty much given up on the Dickson-style toolpost that came with the lathe. It's just too beaten and worn and damaged to be worth fixing, although the attempt has been educational. I have ordered the smallest Aloris BXA set. Joe Gwinn If only tools could talk that toolpost probably has some nasty tales to tell by the sound of its condition. My 2nd hand Dickson has no problems that I am aware of. I have crashed the Toolmex Dickson copy once and unseated the tool holder but apart from breaking part of the flange that sets the height at the top of the clamping eccentric no other damage seems to have occurred. There are dings from clamping without wiping the chips away as well. Th think this toolpost and holders set has seen *lots* of use, and abuse. I'm sure that a number of crashes are in that history. From the sound of the state it does sound like a better option is to replace it as I expect the spares might cost a significant part of a new replacement of a design more common in the US. That's my impression as well, and Aloris gets glowing reports. Thinking about it my Harrison did come with a couple of spare parts for the Dickson post, I expect these were old worn parts, not really looked at them much as they live in the storage compartment and as the toolpost has always worked as expected I haven't bothered to examine them. Put a straightedge on the outside surface of the T-shaped plate. It ought to be flat. On mine, it was quite obviously out of flat, the arms of the T being bent up, and the metal that bears on the toolholder visibly upset. I doubt that replacement parts are available for mine, which appears to have outlived its maker. Time to start over. Joe Gwinn Just done that and all 8 T pieces seem to be flat and the holders undamaged in the clamping area. One T piece closest to the chuck has obviously met it on occasion as it has some evidence of an arc worn slightly into the surface but otherwise OK. The T piece I crashed is flat even though that incident broke a small part off the flange at the top of the eccentric pin. The spare parts included 2 T pieces, both flat, one complete eccentric shaft, and the bit of eccentric shaft that fits in the T piece, both ends having been broken off. In the holders I have, none has the spool-shaped adjuster nut. I would assume that they were removed, but I don't know why. Shame you're in the US and the holders are in a state from what you said before. The Dickson holders always seems to fetch good money in the UK on ebay. Luckily having had the Toolmex version and then bought the Harrison with a Dickson and holders I now have 5 which will take 22mm height tool and a couple of ones to take round or square to about 17mm. I haven't found a use for the Morse taper holder yet. That allows me to keep the commonly used tools set-up with a couple over to set-up with other tools as required. I'm also suspicious that the Dickson toolpost I have is too small for the Clausing 5914 lathe. Anyway good luck on your choice of a new toolpost and let us know how it goes. Thanks. It should arrive this week, although I will be away from my shop this weekend. Joe Gwinn |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update
[...]
Just done that and all 8 T pieces seem to be flat and the holders undamaged in the clamping area. One T piece closest to the chuck has obviously met it on occasion as it has some evidence of an arc worn slightly into the surface but otherwise OK. The T piece I crashed is flat even though that incident broke a small part off the flange at the top of the eccentric pin. The spare parts included 2 T pieces, both flat, one complete eccentric shaft, and the bit of eccentric shaft that fits in the T piece, both ends having been broken off. In the holders I have, none has the spool-shaped adjuster nut. I would assume that they were removed, but I don't know why. I think this has been mentioned before but not much point in having a quick change tool holder with those nuts missing as you can't just throw it into place and have the height correct. Shame you're in the US and the holders are in a state from what you said before. The Dickson holders always seems to fetch good money in the UK on ebay. Luckily having had the Toolmex version and then bought the Harrison with a Dickson and holders I now have 5 which will take 22mm height tool and a couple of ones to take round or square to about 17mm. I haven't found a use for the Morse taper holder yet. That allows me to keep the commonly used tools set-up with a couple over to set-up with other tools as required. I'm also suspicious that the Dickson toolpost I have is too small for the Clausing 5914 lathe. I have looked at www.lathes.co.uk which is normally a good source of info on lathes but it doesn't seem to mention the Clausing 5914, maybe some rare variant of a more common Clausing. Any way another search showed the 5914 to be a 12" lathe and I have a Kerry 11" and the M300 is 13", both are fitted with a Dickson toolpost and holder width of 73mm (2 7/8") and the height is 63mm (2.5") and that seems appropriate and was given as suitable when I bought the Toolmex for the Kerry. Dickson do a smaler size IIRC so maybe that is what you have. Anyway good luck on your choice of a new toolpost and let us know how it goes. Thanks. It should arrive this week, although I will be away from my shop this weekend. Joe Gwinn Ahh mental anguish until you get home to play again. |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update
Joseph Gwinn wrote:
xture was $40 from Home Despot. I have pretty much given up on the Dickson-style toolpost that came with the lathe. It's just too beaten and worn and damaged to be worth fixing, although the attempt has been educational. I have ordered the smallest Aloris BXA set. Joe Gwinn You will be much happier in the long run. Regards Paul -- ----------------------------------------- It's a Linux world....well, it oughta be. ----------------------------------------- |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update
On 2008-02-25, David Billington wrote:
Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , David Billington wrote: Joseph Gwinn wrote: It is the toolpost mechanism that's bent, allowing the toolholders to unseat. Specifically, two of the three T-shaped plates that pull the toolholder down onto the ways was visibly bent, preventing full clamping of the holder to the post. The T-plate in the least-used position is unbent. No wonder the holders became unseated under cutting force. The "bolt" does not appear to be bent. Hmm ... why not examine the wrench. I suspect that you will discover that there are dings on the handle from someone using a "cheater pipe" on it. A pity, because they are otherwise good toolposts and holders. [ ... ] From the sound of the state it does sound like a better option is to replace it as I expect the spares might cost a significant part of a new replacement of a design more common in the US. That's my impression as well, and Aloris gets glowing reports. Yes -- with the Phase-II being not too bad as cheap replacements, especially if you replace the setscrews in the holders with "Made in USA" ones. (Good European ones would be good too, but unlikely to show up at the usual vendors here.) I got my set of screws from MSC - a full box of 100, and have never needed to go beyond the original replacement. [ ... ] Put a straightedge on the outside surface of the T-shaped plate. It ought to be flat. On mine, it was quite obviously out of flat, the arms of the T being bent up, and the metal that bears on the toolholder visibly upset. I doubt that replacement parts are available for mine, which appears to have outlived its maker. Time to start over. [ ... ] Just done that and all 8 T pieces seem to be flat and the holders undamaged in the clamping area. One T piece closest to the chuck has obviously met it on occasion as it has some evidence of an arc worn slightly into the surface but otherwise OK. The T piece I crashed is flat even though that incident broke a small part off the flange at the top of the eccentric pin. The spare parts included 2 T pieces, both flat, one complete eccentric shaft, and the bit of eccentric shaft that fits in the T piece, both ends having been broken off. I suspect that the failure of the ones Joe has came from the use of a cheater pipe on the eccentric wrench. (Hmm ... I wonder whether the same was done with *your* broken eccentric? Shame you're in the US and the holders are in a state from what you said before. The Dickson holders always seems to fetch good money in the UK on ebay. Luckily having had the Toolmex version and then bought the Harrison with a Dickson and holders I now have 5 which will take 22mm height tool and a couple of ones to take round or square to about 17mm. I haven't found a use for the Morse taper holder yet. That allows me to keep the commonly used tools set-up with a couple over to set-up with other tools as required. I've used the Morse taper holder (for BXA, not for Dickson) for holding a drill chuck for power drilling through a workpiece at lager sizes like 1", or for holding a Morse taper mount cut knurling tool for experimentation. I've got the Morse taper to cylinder socket for the turret for serious use, of course. Anyway good luck on your choice of a new toolpost and let us know how it goes. Indeed so. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update
In article ,
David Billington wrote: [...] Just done that and all 8 T pieces seem to be flat and the holders undamaged in the clamping area. One T piece closest to the chuck has obviously met it on occasion as it has some evidence of an arc worn slightly into the surface but otherwise OK. The T piece I crashed is flat even though that incident broke a small part off the flange at the top of the eccentric pin. The spare parts included 2 T pieces, both flat, one complete eccentric shaft, and the bit of eccentric shaft that fits in the T piece, both ends having been broken off. In the holders I have, none has the spool-shaped adjuster nut. I would assume that they were removed, but I don't know why. I think this has been mentioned before but not much point in having a quick change tool holder with those nuts missing as you can't just throw it into place and have the height correct. Yep. Though it's not quite as fiddly as a lantern toolpost to adjust. I'm also suspicious that the Dickson toolpost I have is too small for the Clausing 5914 lathe. I have looked at www.lathes.co.uk which is normally a good source of info on lathes but it doesn't seem to mention the Clausing 5914, maybe some rare variant of a more common Clausing. Any way another search showed the 5914 to be a 12" lathe and I have a Kerry 11" and the M300 is 13", both are fitted with a Dickson toolpost and holder width of 73mm (2 7/8") and the height is 63mm (2.5") and that seems appropriate and was given as suitable when I bought the Toolmex for the Kerry. Dickson do a smaler size IIRC so maybe that is what you have. The toolpost I have is 45mm high and 70mm on a side. The Clausing 5914 is indeed a 12" swing by 36" machine. Anyway, you seem to have a larger Dickson toolpost than I, even though your lathes seem to have about the same swing. I have to hope that a crash on the Clausing won't destroy the BXA toolpost, as crashes are inevitable. Especially while learning. Anyway good luck on your choice of a new toolpost and let us know how it goes. Thanks. It should arrive this week, although I will be away from my shop this weekend. Ahh mental anguish until you get home to play again. Well, with luck it will arrive in a day or so. Aloris is making the T-nut, so with luck the I will be able to just slide it in and clamp it down. So I could be able to cut *something*. And then stew, thinking of the next project. Joe Gwinn |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Toolholder unseating in the Dickson style toolpost - update
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2008-02-25, David Billington wrote: Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , David Billington wrote: Joseph Gwinn wrote: It is the toolpost mechanism that's bent, allowing the toolholders to unseat. Specifically, two of the three T-shaped plates that pull the toolholder down onto the ways was visibly bent, preventing full clamping of the holder to the post. The T-plate in the least-used position is unbent. No wonder the holders became unseated under cutting force. The "bolt" does not appear to be bent. Hmm ... why not examine the wrench. I suspect that you will discover that there are dings on the handle from someone using a "cheater pipe" on it. A pity, because they are otherwise good toolposts and holders. The wrench that came to me is pristine - no evidence of abuse. But see below. From the sound of the state it does sound like a better option is to replace it as I expect the spares might cost a significant part of a new replacement of a design more common in the US. That's my impression as well, and Aloris gets glowing reports. Yes -- with the Phase-II being not too bad as cheap replacements, especially if you replace the setscrews in the holders with "Made in USA" ones. (Good European ones would be good too, but unlikely to show up at the usual vendors here.) I got my set of screws from MSC - a full box of 100, and have never needed to go beyond the original replacement. This seems to be universal. It will be a few years before Chindia figures out how to make good steel. Put a straightedge on the outside surface of the T-shaped plate. It ought to be flat. On mine, it was quite obviously out of flat, the arms of the T being bent up, and the metal that bears on the toolholder visibly upset. I doubt that replacement parts are available for mine, which appears to have outlived its maker. Time to start over. [ ... ] Just done that and all 8 T pieces seem to be flat and the holders undamaged in the clamping area. One T piece closest to the chuck has obviously met it on occasion as it has some evidence of an arc worn slightly into the surface but otherwise OK. The T piece I crashed is flat even though that incident broke a small part off the flange at the top of the eccentric pin. The spare parts included 2 T pieces, both flat, one complete eccentric shaft, and the bit of eccentric shaft that fits in the T piece, both ends having been broken off. I suspect that the failure of the ones Joe has came from the use of a cheater pipe on the eccentric wrench. (Hmm ... I wonder whether the same was done with *your* broken eccentric? That was probably not the reason, which is far simpler: The toolpost is too small for the lathe. When I got it, the toolpost was spaced above the cross slide by two pieces of 0.250" hot rolled steel, and this left the toolpost too low. When I made a spacer, I used 0.75" thick CRS, and even so it wasn't quite thick enough. The aloris BXA is basically a cube 70mm on a side, versus 45mm high by 70mm square for the Dickson. What I suspect happened is that people (probably the weld shop folk) had the holder way too high in the toolpost, with half of the holder sticking up above the toolpost, and a crash forced the holder out of the toolpost, bending the T-plates in the process. What should have happened instead is that tool should have snapped off, without damage to the toolpost and holder. But the cockamamie setup generated lots of leverage, so the toolpost lost the encounter. The Aloris certainly seems robust enough to break a toolbit or bar. Shame you're in the US and the holders are in a state from what you said before. The Dickson holders always seems to fetch good money in the UK on ebay. Luckily having had the Toolmex version and then bought the Harrison with a Dickson and holders I now have 5 which will take 22mm height tool and a couple of ones to take round or square to about 17mm. I haven't found a use for the Morse taper holder yet. That allows me to keep the commonly used tools set-up with a couple over to set-up with other tools as required. I've used the Morse taper holder (for BXA, not for Dickson) for holding a drill chuck for power drilling through a workpiece at lager sizes like 1", or for holding a Morse taper mount cut knurling tool for experimentation. I've got the Morse taper to cylinder socket for the turret for serious use, of course. Anyway good luck on your choice of a new toolpost and let us know how it goes. Indeed so. It arrived today. What a difference. More later. Joe Gwinn |
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