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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Impact wrench torque
I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench
available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? |
#2
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Impact wrench torque
I think there is a decimal point missing. You would not want to put a
1000 ft lbs through a 1/2" drive. A 1000 ft lbs will snap off stuck lugnuts. mark wrote: I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? |
#3
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Impact wrench torque
On Feb 23, 9:12 am, mark wrote:
I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? the tire shop does not likely run the tools at 150PSI but if the shop has or had air lifts or air tire changers they might be operating at 150psi. at the tool ports there is likely a secondary regulator to drop it down to 90 or thereaboutsbut the entire shop can be run off of the single two stage beast and the branch line for the tools is regulated down further than the primary machines |
#4
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Impact wrench torque
In article
, mark wrote: I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb of torque and am still finding it weak. What torque is your arm rated for? It seems unlikely that any human can put a 1000# push on a handheld tool that might be 12" in diameter at most. Joe Gwinn The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? |
#5
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Impact wrench torque
"mark" wrote in message ... I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? Mark In theory the bigger QC will help, I am using a IR2132 (700 ft-lb rated) with 1/4 QC. Other things to check. 1) Is the tool oiled. Air tool oil not only makes them last longer it makes them work better. I put in a couple of drops every time I connect up the any of my air tools to the hose. 2) Are you using any extensions? In my experience every extension, swivel, or adapter I put on the Impact wrench seems to reduce the force applied at the bolt or nut. 3) Are all controls on the gun set to max? (sorry had to ask) On my IR2132 the power control only seems to affect the tightening function not the loosening function, your may be different. 4) is you air compressor tank at the bottom of the pressure range? On tough bolts, I run the impact wrench until the air compressor kicks on, then wait until it stops and I have max pressure in the tank. The difference in performance between 90 and 125 PSI is significant. The only time my IR2132 has not been able move things was a harmonic balancer bolt, where I needed an extension and a 1/2 to 3/4 adapter to reach. It struggled on one very rusty set of lug nuts on a truck I bought that the previous owner appears to run on the beach every weekend. I had to use the cycle the compressor trick in that case. Carl Boyd |
#6
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Impact wrench torque
On Feb 23, 11:56*am, MK1 wrote:
I think there is a decimal point missing. You would not want to put a 1000 ft lbs through a 1/2" drive. A 1000 ft lbs will snap off stuck lugnuts. mark wrote: I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Check out the specs http://www.toolking.com/ingersollrand_ir-2135ti.aspx |
#7
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Impact wrench torque
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:46:26 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote: What torque is your arm rated for? It seems unlikely that any human can put a 1000# push on a handheld tool that might be 12" in diameter at most. ============== There is a reason these are called *IMPACT* guns |
#8
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Impact wrench torque
"mark" wrote in message ... I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? Probaby going to the 3/8 fittings would help some, but you have a high air consumption tool there and though the pressure provided by your compressor may be adequate likely the air flow output is not. I have an IR 231 I use with a 2.5 HP compressor, and have had no trouble with any lugnut or caliper bolt I've used it on. It works well on the relatively low cfm of my compressor, much better than the cheapo CH one I had before it. Mind you, I've used it on nothing bigger than the lugnuts of a 3/4 ton GM van. |
#9
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Impact wrench torque
On Feb 23, 9:12 am, mark wrote:
I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? http://www.irtools.com/IS/category.aspx-en-2844 someone sold you an impact with a marketing torque value the 2135's top out at about 500 foot pounds in forward and 700 in reverse and that will be in ideal conditions. and ideal conditions mean that your arm doesnt twist on the impact blow |
#10
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Impact wrench torque
What is the difference between Nut Busting torque and traditional
torque? I have an older I/R impact wrench that will break off 1/2 bolts all day long on 125psi. Gotta be carefull with the one I got. I think you need to feed it more air. larger air hose and larger fittings, shorter air hose also. |
#11
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Impact wrench torque
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:16:19 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Dan@
(Dan ) quickly quoth: What is the difference between Nut Busting torque and traditional torque? Traditional torque is measured with clean, lightly lubed threads. Nut busting torque is that which will break the corrosion of a frozen nut and bolt/stud. Back in my wrenchin' days, I learned to try tightening before loosening a seemingly stuck combo. That often proved to be the winning solution. For the oddly stubborn lots, the pipe extension on a good breaker bar would nearly always work. For the truly stubborn bitch, nothing worked and the stud broke with the nut intact. Sometimes that's truly OK. Then draw in a new stud using moly grease and a pair of washers, with the new lug nut backwards, the flat toward the washers. Piece o' cake, duck soup. I have an older I/R impact wrench that will break off 1/2 bolts all day long on 125psi. Gotta be carefull with the one I got. I think you need to feed it more air. larger air hose and larger fittings, shorter air hose also. Ditto. It sounds as if the hefty tool is being starved so it's not putting out the torque it's capable of giving. --- Every moment is a golden one for him who has the vision to recognize it as such. -- Henry Miller |
#12
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Impact wrench torque
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:03:19 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, F.
George McDuffee quickly quoth: On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:46:26 -0500, Joseph Gwinn wrote: What torque is your arm rated for? It seems unlikely that any human can put a 1000# push on a handheld tool that might be 12" in diameter at most. ============== There is a reason these are called *IMPACT* guns Yabbut, methinks the 1,000# figure is calculated using Searz Foot Pounds. I doubt a 1/2" gun would do better than 300, with a 3/4 or 1" drive capable of doing up to 1k. --- Every moment is a golden one for him who has the vision to recognize it as such. -- Henry Miller |
#13
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Impact wrench torque
mark wrote:
I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? It may sound stupid, but check the reverse lever/button. I have had occassions where my impact driver wouldn't work properly only to find that the reverse lever wasn't all the way over and air was leaking. With all the other racket you couldn't hear it. Jim |
#14
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Impact wrench torque
Brent, an impact wrench doesn't impart a reverse moment to your arm or
hand that equals the torque being applied to the fastener. It's the hammering that applies the elevated torque. Personally I only use the impact wrench rarely. I use my torque wrenches a lot. I torque a lot of turbine casing bolting and we heat and tension most of them. It is a very interesting process. someone sold you an impact with a marketing torque value the 2135's top out at about 500 foot pounds in forward and 700 in reverse and that will be in ideal conditions. and ideal conditions mean that your arm doesnt twist on the impact blow |
#15
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Impact wrench torque
mark wrote:
I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? I was just looking at the specs for the 2135TiMAX and noticed that the specs say minimum hose size is 3/8", but the air inlet is only 1/4". Air consumption is listed as 5 cfm, but it does not give an air pressure. Anyway, if the air inlet is 1/4", why would it help to put on 3/8" qc? Wayne |
#16
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Impact wrench torque
"Brent" wrote in message
... the tire shop does not likely run the tools at 150PSI but if the shop has or had air lifts or air tire changers they might be operating at 150psi. at the tool ports there is likely a secondary regulator to drop it down to 90 or thereaboutsbut the entire shop can be run off of the single two stage beast and the branch line for the tools is regulated down further than the primary machines Don't bet on that! I worked at a shop years back and all the air was at 175 PSI. You had a tough time even connecting a standard QD. You sure did not want to get your hand stuck between the handle of an air ratchet and the engine block! Greg |
#17
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Impact wrench torque
"NoOne N Particular" wrote: (clip)Anyway, if the air inlet is 1/4", why would it help to put on 3/8" qc? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 1.) You are aware that pipe sizes and hose sizes are not directly convertible? B.) The inlet to the tool is not as long as a hose so its size is not as critical. |
#18
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Impact wrench torque
"NoOne N Particular" wrote in message
news I was just looking at the specs for the 2135TiMAX and noticed that the specs say minimum hose size is 3/8", but the air inlet is only 1/4". Air consumption is listed as 5 cfm, but it does not give an air pressure. Anyway, if the air inlet is 1/4", why would it help to put on 3/8" qc? Wayne The spec give average air consumption. It is like rating duty cycle on a welder. In reality the actual consumption may be two three times as much. A QD is slightly restrictive. The 1/4" inlet will probably flow more than the 1/4" QD will. I would try the impact with a larger hose and QD, or a much shorter hose. One thing you can do is to see what the pressure drop is at the tool fitting. Add a air pressure gauge at the tool and see what it reads while using the tool. If it drops very little, maybe 5 PSI, your hose and fittings are good. If it drop say 15-20 PSI you need more air, bigger hose! Greg |
#19
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Impact wrench torque
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:52:17 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:03:19 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, F. George McDuffee quickly quoth: On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:46:26 -0500, Joseph Gwinn wrote: What torque is your arm rated for? It seems unlikely that any human can put a 1000# push on a handheld tool that might be 12" in diameter at most. ============== There is a reason these are called *IMPACT* guns Yabbut, methinks the 1,000# figure is calculated using Searz Foot Pounds. I doubt a 1/2" gun would do better than 300, with a 3/4 or 1" drive capable of doing up to 1k. ================= From limited experience but having done it, a 1/2 inch gun on 90-100 PSI w/ adequate flow will shear off a "normal" automotive lugnut/stud (or lug bolt) if the nut jams or rusts on. |
#20
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Impact wrench torque
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:12:46 -0800 (PST), mark
wrote: I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? When you are trying to push high power through air tools, the resistance of the air line and couplers becomes critically important. It's just like trying to run a 1000 HP dragster, but feed it fuel with a stock VW Bug fuel pump - it just can't flow fast enough. Do an experiment - try moving the compressor close to the car, or vice versa. Take all the couplings out of the system - put the 3/8" hose straight into the gun, and the other end into a 3/8 full-flow ball valve and right into the air receiver tank. That should be nearly free (no parts) and prove the problem. If it does, that's the time to upgrade your air piping in the shop to get from the tank to your workplace with a big pipe and as little extra crap in the way as you can. 3/4" Type K extra-heavy or Type L heavy copper pipe (Not M) with as few elbows as possible save for drip legs on each drop - your tee goes UP from the main line before going over to the wall and down. (The water stays in the main line, which is sloped to a drain valve.) 1/2" or better high-flow filter-regulator-lubricator (rated for the CFM flow of the wrench with a cushion), 1/2" QD couplings, 1/2" hoses. * * * * * * * * WARNING: DO NOT USE PVC PLASTIC PIPE FOR COMPRESSED AIR!! EVER!! Even as a temporary system or for experimenting, as it tends to get left in service far longer than intended. Hit or twist PVC pipe under pressure and it shatters and goes "Boom!" People get hit by the flying shrapnel and can be hurt, blinded, or occasionally killed. * * * * * * * * If you can't do this, consider a 5-gallon or better receiver tank as an accumulator right next to the workplace and the impact wrench - put the biggest hose you can from the wrench to the accumulator, and then plumb that to your regular compressor. It will give you a burst of full flow and full power to break the nuts loose, then you'll hit the existing air system restrictions. And even if you have a little "2 Sears Horsepower" portable air compressor, throw as much air receiver tank gallonage on as you can. The impact only needs 5 seconds of full-flow air to get that nut moving - so what if it takes 15 minutes for the compressor to build it back up... The tools usually say 90 PSI Max because the internal pieces of the hammers and anvils for the impact system start breaking if you use too much force. They will take being used with a moderate overpressure for a while, but do it constantly and you will see internal failures far before their time. -- Bruce -- |
#21
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Impact wrench torque
"mark" wrote in message ... I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? When my impact seems weak I give it a shot of air tool oil. It works wonders. Steve |
#22
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Impact wrench torque
We ran a steam pump this week on a steam hose. We were connected to
110 psi steam manifold then ran a 50' 3/4" steam hose. The conglomeration of fittings we came up with was a mixture of 3/4" and 1" fittings going up and down in size. Three elbows I think. With all the vales wide open, we only had 40 psi at the little turbine. We just wanted to run it a little and it ran fine, but there sure was a lot of pressure drop there. In theory, if you ran long enough 1/4" hoses, the gun wouldn't run at all. Use big hose and then a short whip, 6' of 3/8" at the gun will help tremendously. Of course, 1/2" hose is expensive. We ran a steam pump this week on a steam hose. We were connected to 110 psi steam manifold then ran a 50' 3/4" steam hose. The conglomeration of fittings we came up with was a mixture of 3/4" and 1" fittings going up and down in size. Three elbows I think. With all the vales wide open, we only had 40 psi at the little turbine. We just wanted to run it a little and it ran fine, but there sure was a lot of pressure drop there. In theory, if you ran long enough 1/4" hoses, the gun wouldn't run at all. Use big hose and then a short whip, 6' of 3/8" at the gun will help tremendously. Of course, 1/2" hose is expensive. |
#23
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Impact wrench torque
"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message ... On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:12:46 -0800 (PST), mark wrote: I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? If you can't do this, consider a 5-gallon or better receiver tank as an accumulator right next to the workplace and the impact wrench - put the biggest hose you can from the wrench to the accumulator, and then plumb that to your regular compressor. It will give you a burst of full flow and full power to break the nuts loose, then you'll hit the existing air system restrictions. -- Bruce -- I use a small air brake tank salvaged from a military water buffalo for just that. The tank is something like 6" in diameter and 8" long with ports on each bell end. I have quick disconnects on each end and the air wrench attaches right to the tank. I use this setup on my 3/4" impact and it makes ALL the difference. With this setup I don't have to upgrade my 3/8" air line for the 3/4" impact wrench. It's kinda neat listening to the tank refill after each trigger pull, which proves that the air line is undersized / overly restricted for the amount of air being demanded. Shawn |
#24
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Impact wrench torque
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:12:46 -0800 (PST), mark
wrote: I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? On that IR impact, 3/8 fittings and 150psi WILL help. So will 1/2" hose at that length. The 2135 is a decent impact, but I still like my OLD CP better (can't remember for sure but I think it is a 734?) It is slower than the IR but I have found it more effective, while braking fewer studs. Just my experience. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#25
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Impact wrench torque
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 08:37:42 -0800 (PST), Brent
wrote: On Feb 23, 9:12 am, mark wrote: I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? the tire shop does not likely run the tools at 150PSI but if the shop has or had air lifts or air tire changers they might be operating at 150psi. at the tool ports there is likely a secondary regulator to drop it down to 90 or thereaboutsbut the entire shop can be run off of the single two stage beast and the branch line for the tools is regulated down further than the primary machines I never reduced the pressure on my impacts from the 150 shop line pressure. Mine DID have a "power" adjustment that allowed me to dial the wrench back for assembling, and dial it up for dissassembling. The 1000 ft lb spec is instantanious torque, not average or mean torque, and the high shock torque is what an "IMPACT" wrench is all about. And yes, if a 1/2" wheel stud is severely rusted to the nut, the impact WILL twist off the stud. So you punch it out and put in a new one, with a new nut. That's how the job has to be done sometimes. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#26
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Impact wrench torque
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:46:26 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote: In article , mark wrote: I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb of torque and am still finding it weak. What torque is your arm rated for? It seems unlikely that any human can put a 1000# push on a handheld tool that might be 12" in diameter at most. Joe Gwinn The mass of the wrench absorbs the "instantanious torque" or "impact". Mean torque, or average torque, may be as little as 100-150 ft lbs and still have a 1000 ft lb rating - without stretching things at all (or very little) The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#27
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Impact wrench torque
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:52:17 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:03:19 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, F. George McDuffee quickly quoth: On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:46:26 -0500, Joseph Gwinn wrote: What torque is your arm rated for? It seems unlikely that any human can put a 1000# push on a handheld tool that might be 12" in diameter at most. ============== There is a reason these are called *IMPACT* guns Yabbut, methinks the 1,000# figure is calculated using Searz Foot Pounds. I doubt a 1/2" gun would do better than 300, with a 3/4 or 1" drive capable of doing up to 1k. Yabbut, yathinks wrong. --- Every moment is a golden one for him who has the vision to recognize it as such. -- Henry Miller -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#28
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Impact wrench torque
bernouli equations will give you the formal answer to your query - a less
formal answer is 'pressure drop" "NoOne N Particular" wrote in message news mark wrote: I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? I was just looking at the specs for the 2135TiMAX and noticed that the specs say minimum hose size is 3/8", but the air inlet is only 1/4". Air consumption is listed as 5 cfm, but it does not give an air pressure. Anyway, if the air inlet is 1/4", why would it help to put on 3/8" qc? Wayne -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#29
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Impact wrench torque
NoOne N Particular writes:
I was just looking at the specs for the 2135TiMAX and noticed that the specs say minimum hose size is 3/8", but the air inlet is only 1/4". Air consumption is listed as 5 cfm, but it does not give an air pressure. Anyway, if the air inlet is 1/4", why would it help to put on 3/8" qc? Because you're having a lot of air available upstream of a relatively short section that's only 1/4". |
#30
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Impact wrench torque
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:07:01 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder.on.ca quickly quoth: On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:52:17 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: Yabbut, methinks the 1,000# figure is calculated using Searz Foot Pounds. I doubt a 1/2" gun would do better than 300, with a 3/4 or 1" drive capable of doing up to 1k. Yabbut, yathinks wrong. That was deep and enlightening. snort OK, checking online, CP (my recollection of the finest product) shows their top of the line 1/2" impact gun, the CP 749-2, putting out 625 ft# of torque. That amazes me. I still think the 1000# is a bunch of marketing ****. Air gun technology doesn't appear to have changed much since I was using them on a daily basis. --- Every moment is a golden one for him who has the vision to recognize it as such. -- Henry Miller |
#31
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Impact wrench torque
In article ,
clare at snyder.on.ca wrote: On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:46:26 -0500, Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , mark wrote: I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb of torque and am still finding it weak. What torque is your arm rated for? It seems unlikely that any human can put a 1000# push on a handheld tool that might be 12" in diameter at most. Joe Gwinn The mass of the wrench absorbs the "instantanious torque" or "impact". Mean torque, or average torque, may be as little as 100-150 ft lbs and still have a 1000 ft lb rating - without stretching things at all (or very little) OK, makes sense. Same theory as the traditional striking wrenches. But the wrench must be pretty heavy to achieve such a number. But I still suspect that the 1000# may be a better measure of their marketing versus their impact wrenches. The instantaneous peak torque one will achieve will depend on how stiff the nut assembly in question is. I assume that this is measured while trying to twist a piece of hex stock welded to an anvil-sized hunk of iron. A better measure might be the rotational inertia of the hammer assembly plus the rotational speed at impact, combined into the angular momentum at impact. Such a measure would be more useful in deciding the relative strength of an impact wrench. Hmm. The above metric won't work. A very light hammer moving fast will have a large angular momentum, but will be ineffectual in breaking stuck fasteners loose - the hammer will just bounce. The surface may become battered, but the nut won't turn. The hammer must be heavy, just as when using a handheld hammer to force something apart by banging on it. Or a handheld hammer-activated impact wrench. I always used at least a two-pound hammer, sometimes five pound. The objective was to use a sufficiently large hammer that one blow would reliably do the job. This is how I got aluminum screws out of aluminum castings without damage, to get the alternator cover off of 1970s Japanese bikes. You got one chance before the #2 phillips screw was mangled beyond hope. They came loose with a very loud Crack! This requires some thought. There must be a metric that captures the effect of hammer weight on effectiveness. Joe Gwinn The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? |
#32
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Impact wrench torque
We use an IR 2135 to remove the center lug nut on a Porsche. These get
torqued to 340 foot pounds and left for a while, I figure breakaway torque is around 500 foot pounds for removal. It won't do that on the little compressor even if I charge it up to full 120 psi before pulling the trigger. We usually do that job off of a N2 bottle regulated at 150 psi. Even then it takes a few moments to see it start to loosen and move. I suspect you need larger hoses. I have a 3" cutoff tool that runs fine in the shop, does not work at all well in the garage even though the only difference is 50' of 1/2" ID copper pipe. mark wrote: I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi? |
#33
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Impact wrench torque
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:00:11 -0500, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
I never reduced the pressure on my impacts from the 150 shop line pressure. Mine DID have a "power" adjustment that allowed me to dial the wrench back for assembling, and dial it up for dissassembling. /RHETORICAL How do you get accurate torque when assembling with an impact wrench? The wheel nuts on my car require 81lb-ft of torque (put the wheels on today after a brake job) they assemble and disassemble easily by hand. A shop uses an impact wrench on them and they don't until they've undone them and re-done them with a torque wrench! The crankshaft pulley needs 200lb-ft. Also a manual job, just use a longer handle. I can understand the use of an impact wrench for undoing truck wheel nuts, but with anything less than 400 lb-ft I would question the use of power tools for assembly. Much above that and I would be using a crane and balance. For large bolts, I would be expecting to use either hydraulic bolts or heated bolts and a micrometer, per the drawings. /RHETORICAL Am I being excessively picky? Mark Rand RTFM |
#34
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Impact wrench torque
The GOOD shops have a torque stick instead of an extension bar, it
breaks loose at a specified (but somewhat inaccurate) measurement. Then torque it up properly by hand with a calibrated torque wrench. The mediocre shops use the torque stick alone. The bad shops have a bubble gum brain impact wrench jockey pull the trigger until it is "good and tight" I don't look down on a shop that uses an impact wrench for assembly as long as they had start the bolts and had torque them afterward. It does save a lot of time when doing a lot of similar bolts eg on the engine. Mark Rand wrote: On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:00:11 -0500, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote: I never reduced the pressure on my impacts from the 150 shop line pressure. Mine DID have a "power" adjustment that allowed me to dial the wrench back for assembling, and dial it up for dissassembling. /RHETORICAL How do you get accurate torque when assembling with an impact wrench? The wheel nuts on my car require 81lb-ft of torque (put the wheels on today after a brake job) they assemble and disassemble easily by hand. A shop uses an impact wrench on them and they don't until they've undone them and re-done them with a torque wrench! The crankshaft pulley needs 200lb-ft. Also a manual job, just use a longer handle. I can understand the use of an impact wrench for undoing truck wheel nuts, but with anything less than 400 lb-ft I would question the use of power tools for assembly. Much above that and I would be using a crane and balance. For large bolts, I would be expecting to use either hydraulic bolts or heated bolts and a micrometer, per the drawings. /RHETORICAL Am I being excessively picky? Mark Rand RTFM |
#35
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Impact wrench torque
On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:35:30 +0000, Mark Rand
wrote: On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:00:11 -0500, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote: I never reduced the pressure on my impacts from the 150 shop line pressure. Mine DID have a "power" adjustment that allowed me to dial the wrench back for assembling, and dial it up for dissassembling. /RHETORICAL How do you get accurate torque when assembling with an impact wrench? The wheel nuts on my car require 81lb-ft of torque (put the wheels on today after a brake job) they assemble and disassemble easily by hand. A shop uses an impact wrench on them and they don't until they've undone them and re-done them with a torque wrench! The crankshaft pulley needs 200lb-ft. Also a manual job, just use a longer handle. I can understand the use of an impact wrench for undoing truck wheel nuts, but with anything less than 400 lb-ft I would question the use of power tools for assembly. Much above that and I would be using a crane and balance. For large bolts, I would be expecting to use either hydraulic bolts or heated bolts and a micrometer, per the drawings. /RHETORICAL Am I being excessively picky? Mark Rand RTFM Assembly with an impact is strictly a "speed" thing. With the proper "torque stick" and the proper technique, it is possible to "torque" a wheel nut accurately with an impact wrench(within less than 10%) I have, for decades, made a practice of putting the wheels on with the impact wrench, then going around and checking the torque on ALL the studs with the torque wrench before letting the car out of the shop. I generally check my own vehicles again after 50-100 miles of driving. On truck wheel nuts a "geared" torque wrench is often used (planetary drive multiplier) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#36
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Impact wrench torque
On 2008-02-24, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , clare at snyder.on.ca wrote: [ ... ] The mass of the wrench absorbs the "instantanious torque" or "impact". Mean torque, or average torque, may be as little as 100-150 ft lbs and still have a 1000 ft lb rating - without stretching things at all (or very little) OK, makes sense. Same theory as the traditional striking wrenches. But the wrench must be pretty heavy to achieve such a number. Another factor is that the "wrench" which is struck benefits from being light, as long as it is sufficiently rigid. IIRC, these were advertised as being titanium, which is light but rigid. So make the part which is struck to transmit torque to the actual wrench socket as light as possible (titanium), and the hammer part as massive as possible (tungsten?) for maximum transfer of energy to the nut. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#37
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Impact wrench torque
clare at snyder.on.ca wrote in message ... On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:35:30 +0000, Mark Rand wrote: On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:00:11 -0500, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote: I never reduced the pressure on my impacts from the 150 shop line pressure. Mine DID have a "power" adjustment that allowed me to dial the wrench back for assembling, and dial it up for dissassembling. /RHETORICAL How do you get accurate torque when assembling with an impact wrench? The wheel nuts on my car require 81lb-ft of torque (put the wheels on today after a brake job) they assemble and disassemble easily by hand. A shop uses an impact wrench on them and they don't until they've undone them and re-done them with a torque wrench! The crankshaft pulley needs 200lb-ft. Also a manual job, just use a longer handle. I can understand the use of an impact wrench for undoing truck wheel nuts, but with anything less than 400 lb-ft I would question the use of power tools for assembly. Much above that and I would be using a crane and balance. For large bolts, I would be expecting to use either hydraulic bolts or heated bolts and a micrometer, per the drawings. /RHETORICAL Am I being excessively picky? Mark Rand RTFM Assembly with an impact is strictly a "speed" thing. With the proper "torque stick" and the proper technique, it is possible to "torque" a wheel nut accurately with an impact wrench(within less than 10%) I have, for decades, made a practice of putting the wheels on with the impact wrench, then going around and checking the torque on ALL the studs with the torque wrench before letting the car out of the shop. I generally check my own vehicles again after 50-100 miles of driving. On truck wheel nuts a "geared" torque wrench is often used (planetary drive multiplier) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com I have seen shops use a torque wrench after an impact wrench but they only checked that the torque wrench would click in the tightening direction. In other words, they did not check that the lugs might already be too tight after using the impact wrench. Effective use of a torque wrench in loosening tight fittings requires that the whole assembly be very rigid. It takes only a short extension or a thin socket to reduce the power significantly. Don Young |
#38
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Impact wrench torque
"RoyJ" wrote in message ... We use an IR 2135 to remove the center lug nut on a Porsche. These get torqued to 340 foot pounds and left for a while, I figure breakaway torque is around 500 foot pounds for removal. It won't do that on the little compressor even if I charge it up to full 120 psi before pulling the trigger. We usually do that job off of a N2 bottle regulated at 150 psi. Even then it takes a few moments to see it start to loosen and move. I suspect you need larger hoses. I have a 3" cutoff tool that runs fine in the shop, does not work at all well in the garage even though the only difference is 50' of 1/2" ID copper pipe. when I pull those wheel nuts off my 356, I use a 3/4 inch breaker bar and a 10 ft length of 1 inch pipe -the pipe will usually bend but it takes it off nicely - I suspect more than 500 ft/lbs. I had one of those nuts unscrew once, shearing the cotter and working it into the threads - this allowed the wheel to separate from the car, taking the brake drum with it - I was going down hill at the time and trailed an impressive rooster tail of sparks as the shock tower ground down on the freeway - never did figure out why it was able to shear the cotter pin, but I will always remember the feeling of torque steer that preceeded the final separation by about 5 seconds. Oh, and with the old 356, when the rear wheel goes you have no brakes (single hydraulic system), no emergency brake (mechanical differential) and no way to downshift to slow down (because of the differential) so you just get to ride it out - it's quite a feeling. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#39
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Impact wrench torque
Don Young wrote:
I have seen shops use a torque wrench after an impact wrench but they only checked that the torque wrench would click in the tightening direction. In other words, they did not check that the lugs might already be too tight after using the impact wrench. Effective use of a torque wrench in loosening tight fittings requires that the whole assembly be very rigid. It takes only a short extension or a thin socket to reduce the power significantly. Don Young There are "calibrated" extensions, too, that limit the torque by being of different diameters. Harbour freight probably sells them in the US, but I know that Princess Auto in Canada does. Cheers Trevor Jones |
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