Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old February 23rd 08, 05:48 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Impact wrench torque

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:16:19 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, [email protected]
(Dan ) quickly quoth:

What is the difference between Nut Busting torque and traditional
torque?


Traditional torque is measured with clean, lightly lubed threads. Nut
busting torque is that which will break the corrosion of a frozen nut
and bolt/stud.

Back in my wrenchin' days, I learned to try tightening before
loosening a seemingly stuck combo. That often proved to be the winning
solution. For the oddly stubborn lots, the pipe extension on a good
breaker bar would nearly always work. For the truly stubborn bitch,
nothing worked and the stud broke with the nut intact. Sometimes
that's truly OK. Then draw in a new stud using moly grease and a pair
of washers, with the new lug nut backwards, the flat toward the
washers. Piece o' cake, duck soup.


I have an older I/R impact wrench that will break off 1/2 bolts all
day long on 125psi. Gotta be carefull with the one I got.
I think you need to feed it more air. larger air hose and larger
fittings, shorter air hose also.


Ditto. It sounds as if the hefty tool is being starved so it's not
putting out the torque it's capable of giving.

---
Every moment is a golden one
for him who has the vision to recognize it as such.
-- Henry Miller

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Old February 23rd 08, 05:52 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Impact wrench torque

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:03:19 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, F.
George McDuffee quickly quoth:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:46:26 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

What torque is your arm rated for? It seems unlikely that any human can
put a 1000# push on a handheld tool that might be 12" in diameter at
most.

==============
There is a reason these are called *IMPACT* guns


Yabbut, methinks the 1,000# figure is calculated using Searz Foot
Pounds. I doubt a 1/2" gun would do better than 300, with a 3/4 or 1"
drive capable of doing up to 1k.

---
Every moment is a golden one
for him who has the vision to recognize it as such.
-- Henry Miller
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Old February 23rd 08, 06:27 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Impact wrench torque

mark wrote:
I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench
available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it
weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my
front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I
am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick
connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a
local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is
needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi?



It may sound stupid, but check the reverse lever/button. I have had
occassions where my impact driver wouldn't work properly only to find
that the reverse lever wasn't all the way over and air was leaking.
With all the other racket you couldn't hear it.

Jim
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Old February 23rd 08, 07:30 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Dan Dan is offline
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Default Impact wrench torque

Brent, an impact wrench doesn't impart a reverse moment to your arm or
hand that equals the torque being applied to the fastener. It's the
hammering that applies the elevated torque.
Personally I only use the impact wrench rarely. I use my torque
wrenches a lot. I torque a lot of turbine casing bolting and we heat
and tension most of them. It is a very interesting process.

someone sold you an impact with a marketing torque value the 2135's
top out at about 500 foot pounds in forward and 700 in reverse and
that will be in ideal conditions. and ideal conditions mean that your
arm doesnt twist on the impact blow


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Old February 23rd 08, 07:45 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Impact wrench torque

mark wrote:
I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench
available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it
weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my
front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I
am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick
connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a
local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is
needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi?


I was just looking at the specs for the 2135TiMAX and noticed that the
specs say minimum hose size is 3/8", but the air inlet is only 1/4".
Air consumption is listed as 5 cfm, but it does not give an air pressure.

Anyway, if the air inlet is 1/4", why would it help to put on 3/8" qc?

Wayne


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Old February 23rd 08, 08:41 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Impact wrench torque

"Brent" wrote in message
...


the tire shop does not likely run the tools at 150PSI but if the shop
has or had air lifts or air tire changers they might be operating at
150psi. at the tool ports there is likely a secondary regulator to
drop it down to 90 or thereaboutsbut the entire shop can be run off of
the single two stage beast and the branch line for the tools is
regulated down further than the primary machines


Don't bet on that!
I worked at a shop years back and all the air was at 175 PSI. You had a
tough time even connecting a standard QD. You sure did not want to get your
hand stuck between the handle of an air ratchet and the engine block!
Greg

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Old February 23rd 08, 08:48 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Impact wrench torque


"NoOne N Particular" wrote: (clip)Anyway, if the air inlet is 1/4", why
would it help to put on 3/8" qc?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
1.) You are aware that pipe sizes and hose sizes are not directly
convertible?
B.) The inlet to the tool is not as long as a hose so its size is not as
critical.


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Old February 23rd 08, 08:50 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Impact wrench torque

"NoOne N Particular" wrote in message
news


I was just looking at the specs for the 2135TiMAX and noticed that the
specs say minimum hose size is 3/8", but the air inlet is only 1/4". Air
consumption is listed as 5 cfm, but it does not give an air pressure.

Anyway, if the air inlet is 1/4", why would it help to put on 3/8" qc?

Wayne


The spec give average air consumption. It is like rating duty cycle on a
welder. In reality the actual consumption may be two three times as much.
A QD is slightly restrictive. The 1/4" inlet will probably flow more than
the 1/4" QD will. I would try the impact with a larger hose and QD, or a
much shorter hose. One thing you can do is to see what the pressure drop is
at the tool fitting. Add a air pressure gauge at the tool and see what it
reads while using the tool. If it drops very little, maybe 5 PSI, your hose
and fittings are good. If it drop say 15-20 PSI you need more air, bigger
hose!
Greg

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Old February 23rd 08, 09:37 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Impact wrench torque

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 09:52:17 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:03:19 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, F.
George McDuffee quickly quoth:

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:46:26 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

What torque is your arm rated for? It seems unlikely that any human can
put a 1000# push on a handheld tool that might be 12" in diameter at
most.

==============
There is a reason these are called *IMPACT* guns


Yabbut, methinks the 1,000# figure is calculated using Searz Foot
Pounds. I doubt a 1/2" gun would do better than 300, with a 3/4 or 1"
drive capable of doing up to 1k.

=================
From limited experience but having done it, a 1/2 inch gun on
90-100 PSI w/ adequate flow will shear off a "normal" automotive
lugnut/stud (or lug bolt) if the nut jams or rusts on.


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Old February 23rd 08, 11:03 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Impact wrench torque

On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 06:12:46 -0800 (PST), mark
wrote:

I bought what is apparently the most powerful 1/2" drive impact wrench
available IR 2135 with 1000 ftlb or torque and am still finding it
weak. The other day it would not remove the bolts that hold on my
front brake caliper bracket and sometimes it wll not remove lugnuts. I
am using it at 125psi with 50' of 3/8" hose and 1/4" M (milton) quick
connects). Would going to 3/8" qc fittings help at all? I notived a
local tire shop has the air pressure at 150 psi. Is this what is
needed? How come air tools say never to go above 90 psi?


When you are trying to push high power through air tools, the
resistance of the air line and couplers becomes critically important.
It's just like trying to run a 1000 HP dragster, but feed it fuel with
a stock VW Bug fuel pump - it just can't flow fast enough.

Do an experiment - try moving the compressor close to the car, or
vice versa. Take all the couplings out of the system - put the 3/8"
hose straight into the gun, and the other end into a 3/8 full-flow
ball valve and right into the air receiver tank.

That should be nearly free (no parts) and prove the problem.

If it does, that's the time to upgrade your air piping in the shop
to get from the tank to your workplace with a big pipe and as little
extra crap in the way as you can.

3/4" Type K extra-heavy or Type L heavy copper pipe (Not M) with as
few elbows as possible save for drip legs on each drop - your tee goes
UP from the main line before going over to the wall and down. (The
water stays in the main line, which is sloped to a drain valve.) 1/2"
or better high-flow filter-regulator-lubricator (rated for the CFM
flow of the wrench with a cushion), 1/2" QD couplings, 1/2" hoses.

* * * * * * * *

WARNING: DO NOT USE PVC PLASTIC PIPE FOR COMPRESSED AIR!! EVER!!
Even as a temporary system or for experimenting, as it tends to get
left in service far longer than intended. Hit or twist PVC pipe under
pressure and it shatters and goes "Boom!" People get hit by the
flying shrapnel and can be hurt, blinded, or occasionally killed.

* * * * * * * *

If you can't do this, consider a 5-gallon or better receiver tank as
an accumulator right next to the workplace and the impact wrench - put
the biggest hose you can from the wrench to the accumulator, and then
plumb that to your regular compressor. It will give you a burst of
full flow and full power to break the nuts loose, then you'll hit the
existing air system restrictions.

And even if you have a little "2 Sears Horsepower" portable air
compressor, throw as much air receiver tank gallonage on as you can.
The impact only needs 5 seconds of full-flow air to get that nut
moving - so what if it takes 15 minutes for the compressor to build it
back up...

The tools usually say 90 PSI Max because the internal pieces of the
hammers and anvils for the impact system start breaking if you use too
much force. They will take being used with a moderate overpressure
for a while, but do it constantly and you will see internal failures
far before their time.

-- Bruce --



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