I got a forklift, need some guidance
OK, last minute deal, my buddy calls me he's cleaning out a garage and
they have a forklift, I can have it for 500 bucks or he's taking it for scrap. owner says it works good. WTF, I say bring it over. Turns out it's a Yale electric. 5000# not bad. name plate on lift says 30 volts, battery has 18 cells, would that not be 36 volts? Hobart charger is marked 30 volts, battery type "LA-12C" which I'm guessing is lead acid 12 cells, AKA 24 volts. so I have the wrong charger, which explains way I was told battery does not hold a charge well. Am I guessing correctly or way off base. Will keep this one until I can come up with a good deal on a LP powered one. Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
I've not heard of 30 volt systems. Doesn't mean they don't exist but
certainly rare. A 0 and a 6 could look the same on old tags. Your battery is 36 volt. Why don't you put a voltmeter on the battery. Observe voltage with charger on and off. Also does your charger have an ammeter, most do. What amps is it drawing? I went through a battery reconditioning procedure and got another year out of my truck. messy time consuming job. let me know if you're interested and I'll look it up. Karl |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
Battery reads 18 volt when I got it. charger output 30 volt open
circuit, just barely moving the meter, about 1.6A with my Fluke DC clamp on. 28.6 v connected to battery. What's the recon process? Tag is definitely a 0 as in 30 volt. Weird, Came up with nothing on my web search for Hobart 3t12-768 charger and nothing for a Yale k66c-050g30s071 truck. Is Yale still in business? On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:51:40 -0500, "Karl Townsend" wrote: I've not heard of 30 volt systems. Doesn't mean they don't exist but certainly rare. A 0 and a 6 could look the same on old tags. Your battery is 36 volt. Why don't you put a voltmeter on the battery. Observe voltage with charger on and off. Also does your charger have an ammeter, most do. What amps is it drawing? I went through a battery reconditioning procedure and got another year out of my truck. messy time consuming job. let me know if you're interested and I'll look it up. Karl Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
Well, now you know why that battery is dead as a door nail. You got to have
about 40 volts to charge a 36 volt battery. Read this http://tinyurl.com/2byu9z I'd first try hooking the charger direct to the truck and see if the truck is worth fixing. I've run my truck this way in "emergency mode" Karl |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
Have your heart medications readily available before you make a call
to inquire about the replacement battery price. i |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
If you're just going to move a few pallets around the shop every day or
load a pick-up truck a couple times a week... couldn't you just gang together three 12v automotive batteries? You could charge them separately with a regular 12v automotive battery charger? "Randy" wrote in message ... OK, last minute deal, my buddy calls me he's cleaning out a garage and they have a forklift, I can have it for 500 bucks or he's taking it for scrap. owner says it works good. WTF, I say bring it over. Turns out it's a Yale electric. 5000# not bad. name plate on lift says 30 volts, battery has 18 cells, would that not be 36 volts? Hobart charger is marked 30 volts, battery type "LA-12C" which I'm guessing is lead acid 12 cells, AKA 24 volts. so I have the wrong charger, which explains way I was told battery does not hold a charge well. Am I guessing correctly or way off base. Will keep this one until I can come up with a good deal on a LP powered one. Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
Randy fired this volley in
: Battery reads 18 volt when I got it. charger output 30 volt open circuit, just barely moving the meter, about 1.6A with my Fluke DC clamp on. 28.6 v connected to battery. What's the recon process? Tag is definitely a 0 as in 30 volt. Weird, Came up with nothing on my web search for Hobart 3t12-768 charger and nothing for a Yale k66c-050g30s071 truck. Is Yale still in business? Randy, did it occur to you that the lift might really be designed for 30V, and someone - finding the 15-cell battery difficult to obtain (or just plain stupidly) - swapped it for a 36? That would explain a lot... LLoyd |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
"Karl Townsend" wrote: Well, now you know why that battery is dead as a door nail. You got to have about 40 volts to charge a 36 volt battery. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Be careful interpreting voltage readings from a battery charger. It's rectified AC (half-wave or full-wave) and the peaks will be higher than the average or RMS value. You can get charging from a setup which, according to the meter, shouldn't work. I'm not saying that's what your problem is, but it is something to be aware of. If you put a husky transformer on the input you might be able to boost the output voltage enough to charge your battery fully. This could either be a transformer with a 1.25 (or so) turns ratio, or one that gives you about 6 or 8 volts output, hooked series adding to the line voltage. I expect there will be enough safety factor built into the charger to tolerate this much over voltage. Be aware also that if this battery has been in a discharged state for some time, it probably has lost part of its capacity. |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
Randy writes:
Turns out it's a Yale electric. 5000# not bad. You probably have several $1000s in scrap lead there. |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
Randy wrote in
: snip Tag is definitely a 0 as in 30 volt. Weird, Came up with nothing on my web search for Hobart 3t12-768 charger and nothing for a Yale k66c-050g30s071 truck. Is Yale still in business? snip Just out of curiosity I played around with some searches and came up with what appears to be a manual on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/EATON-YALE-TOWNE...LIFT-PARTS-OP- MANUAL_W0QQitemZ7577120589QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphoto hosting Looks like the k66c is the main model number??? Just thought I'd let you know. Bill |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
"David Courtney" wrote in message . .. If you're just going to move a few pallets around the shop every day or load a pick-up truck a couple times a week... couldn't you just gang together three 12v automotive batteries? You could charge them separately with a regular 12v automotive battery charger? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You probably wouldn't get much running time from just three car batteries. To increase the running time you could use six or nine batteries in series-parallel, but then you would have very long charging time trying to use a regular battery charger. You could hook then in series pairs and charge them from the 30 volt charger. Mounting that many car batteries in the fork lift, and hooking and unhooking them for charging would be a bear. Never mind--it's not a good idea at all. :-) |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
Battery is the main counterweight in this thing, could not pick up
much without it. On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:33:04 -0600, "David Courtney" wrote: If you're just going to move a few pallets around the shop every day or load a pick-up truck a couple times a week... couldn't you just gang together three 12v automotive batteries? You could charge them separately with a regular 12v automotive battery charger? Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
"If you're just going to move a few pallets around the shop every day or
load a pick-up truck a couple times a week..." (I typed it slower that time... did that help?) "Leo Lichtman" wrote in message ... "David Courtney" wrote in message . .. If you're just going to move a few pallets around the shop every day or load a pick-up truck a couple times a week... couldn't you just gang together three 12v automotive batteries? You could charge them separately with a regular 12v automotive battery charger? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You probably wouldn't get much running time from just three car batteries. To increase the running time you could use six or nine batteries in series-parallel, but then you would have very long charging time trying to use a regular battery charger. You could hook then in series pairs and charge them from the 30 volt charger. Mounting that many car batteries in the fork lift, and hooking and unhooking them for charging would be a bear. Never mind--it's not a good idea at all. :-) |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
Charger is connectable for 208/240/480 so I could try the 208 taps,
if I knew how to connect it for that, there's no sticker, and I have no manual. I did email Hobart, but who knows how old this thing is. I don't think the output voltage is regulated at all, it looks like a power supply and a timer, thats it. It will take some more research. On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:46:51 GMT, "Leo Lichtman" wrote: "Karl Townsend" wrote: Well, now you know why that battery is dead as a door nail. You got to have about 40 volts to charge a 36 volt battery. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Be careful interpreting voltage readings from a battery charger. It's rectified AC (half-wave or full-wave) and the peaks will be higher than the average or RMS value. You can get charging from a setup which, according to the meter, shouldn't work. I'm not saying that's what your problem is, but it is something to be aware of. If you put a husky transformer on the input you might be able to boost the output voltage enough to charge your battery fully. This could either be a transformer with a 1.25 (or so) turns ratio, or one that gives you about 6 or 8 volts output, hooked series adding to the line voltage. I expect there will be enough safety factor built into the charger to tolerate this much over voltage. Be aware also that if this battery has been in a discharged state for some time, it probably has lost part of its capacity. Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:37:07 -0000, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote: Randy fired this volley in : Battery reads 18 volt when I got it. charger output 30 volt open circuit, just barely moving the meter, about 1.6A with my Fluke DC clamp on. 28.6 v connected to battery. What's the recon process? Tag is definitely a 0 as in 30 volt. Weird, Came up with nothing on my web search for Hobart 3t12-768 charger and nothing for a Yale k66c-050g30s071 truck. Is Yale still in business? Randy, did it occur to you that the lift might really be designed for 30V, and someone - finding the 15-cell battery difficult to obtain (or just plain stupidly) - swapped it for a 36? That would explain a lot... LLoyd I would believe that. Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
On Feb 22, 10:56 am, Randy wrote:
Charger is connectable for 208/240/480 so I could try the 208 taps, if I knew how to connect it for that, there's no sticker, and I have no manual. I did email Hobart, but who knows how old this thing is. I don't think the output voltage is regulated at all, it looks like a power supply and a timer, thats it. It will take some more research. On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:46:51 GMT, "Leo Lichtman" wrote: "Karl Townsend" wrote: Well, now you know why that battery is dead as a door nail. You got to have about 40 volts to charge a 36 volt battery. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Be careful interpreting voltage readings from a battery charger. It's rectified AC (half-wave or full-wave) and the peaks will be higher than the average or RMS value. You can get charging from a setup which, according to the meter, shouldn't work. I'm not saying that's what your problem is, but it is something to be aware of. If you put a husky transformer on the input you might be able to boost the output voltage enough to charge your battery fully. This could either be a transformer with a 1.25 (or so) turns ratio, or one that gives you about 6 or 8 volts output, hooked series adding to the line voltage. I expect there will be enough safety factor built into the charger to tolerate this much over voltage. Be aware also that if this battery has been in a discharged state for some time, it probably has lost part of its capacity. Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. So, what AC voltage did you connect to when you got the 30 volts? If the thing was expecting 240 or 480 volts and you only supplied 220 or 120, then you might see and odd output voltage. The 208 voltage makes me think 3-phase, the 480 makes me think three- phase. Could this be the problem? Paul |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
Randy wrote: OK, last minute deal, my buddy calls me he's cleaning out a garage and they have a forklift, I can have it for 500 bucks or he's taking it for scrap. owner says it works good. WTF, I say bring it over. Turns out it's a Yale electric. 5000# not bad. name plate on lift says 30 volts, battery has 18 cells, would that not be 36 volts? Hobart charger is marked 30 volts, battery type "LA-12C" which I'm guessing is lead acid 12 cells, AKA 24 volts. so I have the wrong charger, which explains way I was told battery does not hold a charge well. I'm guessing the battery set has been swapped for a more common set. 30 V would be something like 15 cells, and may not be available anymore. I guess 5 3-cell batteries would make a 30 V system. Probably no big mess to run the 30 V motors and controls off 36, but you need to turn up the charger output. If the charger is capable of running off 208 or 230, you might be able to re-tap it for 208 and run off 230. This may make the transformer run hot, but up the output to about 33V, which still isn't enough. You need a charging voltage of about 42.6 V for a real 36-V set. Can you re-tap the battery string for about 15 cells? If so, do that and try to charge the batteries. They may have been undercharged for so long as to be totally shot, though. :( Jon |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote: Randy fired this volley in : Battery reads 18 volt when I got it. charger output 30 volt open circuit, just barely moving the meter, about 1.6A with my Fluke DC clamp on. 28.6 v connected to battery. What's the recon process? Tag is definitely a 0 as in 30 volt. Weird, Came up with nothing on my web search for Hobart 3t12-768 charger and nothing for a Yale k66c-050g30s071 truck. Is Yale still in business? Randy, did it occur to you that the lift might really be designed for 30V, and someone - finding the 15-cell battery difficult to obtain (or just plain stupidly) - swapped it for a 36? That would explain a lot... The fact it says 30 V in TWO places makes me agree 100% with you! Jon |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:47:44 -0800 (PST), "
wrote: On Feb 22, 10:56 am, Randy wrote: Charger is connectable for 208/240/480 so I could try the 208 taps, if I knew how to connect it for that, there's no sticker, and I have no manual. I did email Hobart, but who knows how old this thing is. I don't think the output voltage is regulated at all, it looks like a power supply and a timer, thats it. It will take some more research. On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:46:51 GMT, "Leo Lichtman" wrote: "Karl Townsend" wrote: Well, now you know why that battery is dead as a door nail. You got to have about 40 volts to charge a 36 volt battery. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Be careful interpreting voltage readings from a battery charger. It's rectified AC (half-wave or full-wave) and the peaks will be higher than the average or RMS value. You can get charging from a setup which, according to the meter, shouldn't work. I'm not saying that's what your problem is, but it is something to be aware of. If you put a husky transformer on the input you might be able to boost the output voltage enough to charge your battery fully. This could either be a transformer with a 1.25 (or so) turns ratio, or one that gives you about 6 or 8 volts output, hooked series adding to the line voltage. I expect there will be enough safety factor built into the charger to tolerate this much over voltage. Be aware also that if this battery has been in a discharged state for some time, it probably has lost part of its capacity. Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. So, what AC voltage did you connect to when you got the 30 volts? If the thing was expecting 240 or 480 volts and you only supplied 220 or 120, then you might see and odd output voltage. The 208 voltage makes me think 3-phase, the 480 makes me think three- phase. Could this be the problem? Paul I hooked it to 240 3ph, it does want a 3ph input. it's output is marked as 30 volts and thats what I got so I'm guessing it's set for 240V. My electrical friend looked at the jumpers and said try it. so I did. Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
If the battery is steel cased, (3'X3', about 3100 lbs) , or 1'X3', the
individual cells can be replaced by a competent lift service man. I have done it a few times, but it's a scary process, because the connector link needs to be "welded" back on with a lead filler bar and flame torch. The links are removed with a coring tool, to preserve the battery post. The cells have to be purged before work is performed, or a rather large BOOM will occur. 18 sequential explosions from the open cells made me have to clean my pants, and decide to decline further repair for the company I was working for, who wanted to save money by having an in-house mechanic do the job. Electric trucks are sedate, but very dangerous in various ways. A golf cart battery charger should possibly work to charge the battery, if the correct connector is adapted, shouldn't it?. The process in the factory I worked for at the time was charge, cool battery for 8 hours, run for a shift, repeat process. This was supposed to dissapate the hydrogen gas somewhat before the battery was put back into the truck. Batteries were swapped out to allow lifts to run all shifts. RJ "Ignoramus31612" wrote in message ... Have your heart medications readily available before you make a call to inquire about the replacement battery price. i |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
"David Courtney" wrote: "If you're just going to move a few pallets around the shop every day or load a pick-up truck a couple times a week..." (I typed it slower that time... did that help?) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I get your point, and I enjoyed the manner in which you presented it. (I am a slow reader.) However, my point was that if you compare the weight/volume of a typical fork lift battery to three automotive batteries, it suggests that the capacity might be annoyingly low. My typing speed is as slow as my reading speed, so I am sure we understand each other now :-) |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
"David Courtney" wrote in message . .. If you're just going to move a few pallets around the shop every day or load a pick-up truck a couple times a week... couldn't you just gang together three 12v automotive batteries? You could charge them separately with a regular 12v automotive battery charger? If nothing else, three automotive batteries may be enough to test the unit out and see if it is worth keeping, or putting money in proper batteries. Greg |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:42:22 -0500, Randy wrote:
Battery reads 18 volt when I got it. charger output 30 volt open circuit, just barely moving the meter, about 1.6A with my Fluke DC clamp on. 28.6 v connected to battery. What's the recon process? Tag is definitely a 0 as in 30 volt. Weird, Came up with nothing on my web search for Hobart 3t12-768 charger and nothing for a Yale k66c-050g30s071 truck. Is Yale still in business? The K66 tells that the unit is a sit down counter balance unit that has a central mounted drive motor that is directly mounted to the differential and is horizontal to the floor. Manufactured in the 70's or maybe later, I'm not sure when they changed models but the newer ones resemble these, a positive sign. The C = cushion tires meaning solid rubber that I recall are 18' od, 9" wide, 12' id, press on tires. The 050 indicates the capacity is 5000#. The G30 is battery voltage and perhaps the weight and minimum dimensions to achieve the 5000# lifting ability. The S071 tells it is a single stage upright that the lowered height is 71" with the proper size tires installed so you know what the highest doorway you can drive through. Normally this model came from the factory as a 36V or 48V model although Busch Beer ordered 40V models. Go figure~ Yale is still in business and have dealers in most larger cities. The Serial number should be stamped in the frame on the right side near where the floor plate is. This will enable the dealer to determine the year of manufacture. The electronics for the drive system changed through the years but were SCR systems manufactured by GE. Most, if not all of the electrical parts should still be available. Eaton Towne & Yale bought out Automatic Lift in the early 70s to get into the electric lift truck line. Prior to that Automatic manufactured Yale electric trucks and they had a different model number than Automatic but the parts were interchangeable for the most part. Hobart should be able to provide the diagrams for different voltage tap configurations but you will need the complete model and serial number of the charger. Larger cities will have Industrial Battery Remanufactures. Ask the dealer which one they use because many dealers choose to send large industrial batteries out for evaluation and repair. NEVER, NEVER, lift these batteries with a chain. There are special lifting methods to lift these batteries. The weight is normally stamped on one side of the case The Model and serial # and number of plates of the battery is usually stamped on one of the tie bars for the cells near the first positive cell (Red cable is attached to the first cell +). HTH On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:51:40 -0500, "Karl Townsend" wrote: snipped only for clarity of top poster. Please excuse me Karl |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
Caution goes on here.
A 36 volt might be exactly that. And the charger might 'average' or 'RMS' to 36 but 'peak' at much higher than that depending on your measurement. RMS is .707 of a sine wave. You have half wave or full wave. You have a fluke ? - does it have frequency ? RMS ? Peak? Waveform ? You might have lossy cells - lead might be shorting a cell out at the bottom - flaking out - and shorting a cell above it. Take the battery out - can you even lift it... if you can with an apron tip it from side to side. That might do it. I'd try to see if you can measure each cell. Many big batteries are strapped between cells. You can find a bad one. It might be low of water. It might have sit for a long time. Sulphurized the plates ? Hum. Much to learn. Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ Karl Townsend wrote: Well, now you know why that battery is dead as a door nail. You got to have about 40 volts to charge a 36 volt battery. Read this http://tinyurl.com/2byu9z I'd first try hooking the charger direct to the truck and see if the truck is worth fixing. I've run my truck this way in "emergency mode" Karl |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
Found a relay on the charger that drops the charge voltage from (40V)
full charge to 30V float charge, Stuck a zip tie in to hold the relay open, Now I'm finially starting to get some charge in this thing. Charging at about 75A now. Trying to get info from Yale and Hobart. Thanks for all the replies. On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:32:21 -0500, Randy wrote: OK, last minute deal, my buddy calls me he's cleaning out a garage and they have a forklift, I can have it for 500 bucks or he's taking it for scrap. owner says it works good. WTF, I say bring it over. Turns out it's a Yale electric. 5000# not bad. name plate on lift says 30 volts, battery has 18 cells, would that not be 36 volts? Hobart charger is marked 30 volts, battery type "LA-12C" which I'm guessing is lead acid 12 cells, AKA 24 volts. so I have the wrong charger, which explains way I was told battery does not hold a charge well. Am I guessing correctly or way off base. Will keep this one until I can come up with a good deal on a LP powered one. Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. |
I got a forklift, need some guidance
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:54:00 -0500, RLM wrote:
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:42:22 -0500, Randy wrote: Battery reads 18 volt when I got it. charger output 30 volt open circuit, just barely moving the meter, about 1.6A with my Fluke DC clamp on. 28.6 v connected to battery. What's the recon process? Tag is definitely a 0 as in 30 volt. Weird, Came up with nothing on my web search for Hobart 3t12-768 charger and nothing for a Yale k66c-050g30s071 truck. Is Yale still in business? The K66 tells that the unit is a sit down counter balance unit that has a central mounted drive motor that is directly mounted to the differential and is horizontal to the floor. Manufactured in the 70's or maybe later, I'm not sure when they changed models but the newer ones resemble these, a positive sign. The C = cushion tires meaning solid rubber that I recall are 18' od, 9" wide, 12' id, press on tires. The 050 indicates the capacity is 5000#. The G30 is battery voltage and perhaps the weight and minimum dimensions to achieve the 5000# lifting ability. The S071 tells it is a single stage upright that the lowered height is 71" with the proper size tires installed so you know what the highest doorway you can drive through. Normally this model came from the factory as a 36V or 48V model although Busch Beer ordered 40V models. Go figure~ Yale is still in business and have dealers in most larger cities. The Serial number should be stamped in the frame on the right side near where the floor plate is. This will enable the dealer to determine the year of manufacture. The electronics for the drive system changed through the years but were SCR systems manufactured by GE. Most, if not all of the electrical parts should still be available. Per my local Yale dealer this is a 1972 truck. They would photocopy the owners manual for me as a new copy is no longer available. The one on ebay was coorect for my truck so I bought it. I was told to get a manual with a printing date as close as possible, but not newer than, the year of my truck. (sort of like the price is right) Eaton Towne & Yale bought out Automatic Lift in the early 70s to get into the electric lift truck line. Prior to that Automatic manufactured Yale electric trucks and they had a different model number than Automatic but the parts were interchangeable for the most part. Hobart should be able to provide the diagrams for different voltage tap configurations but you will need the complete model and serial number of the charger. Ammetek bought out the hobart line of chargers, called them and got a schematic. Very helpful people. Larger cities will have Industrial Battery Remanufactures. Ask the dealer which one they use because many dealers choose to send large industrial batteries out for evaluation and repair. NEVER, NEVER, lift these batteries with a chain. There are special lifting methods to lift these batteries. The weight is normally stamped on one side of the case The Model and serial # and number of plates of the battery is usually stamped on one of the tie bars for the cells near the first positive cell (Red cable is attached to the first cell +). Yep, had the number system explained to me see new post on batteries. Thanks for the reply you had a better breakdown of the model number then the Yale dealer did. They're still not sure what the G is for. Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. |
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