OK, last minute deal, my buddy calls me he's cleaning out a garage and
they have a forklift, I can have it for 500 bucks or he's taking it
for scrap. owner says it works good. WTF, I say bring it over.

Turns out it's a Yale electric. 5000# not bad.

name plate on lift says 30 volts, battery has 18 cells, would that not
be 36 volts?

Hobart charger is marked 30 volts, battery type "LA-12C" which I'm
guessing is lead acid 12 cells, AKA 24 volts. so I have the wrong
charger, which explains way I was told battery does not hold a charge
well.

Am I guessing correctly or way off base.

Will keep this one until I can come up with a good deal on a LP
powered one.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

I've not heard of 30 volt systems. Doesn't mean they don't exist but
certainly rare. A 0 and a 6 could look the same on old tags. Your battery is
36 volt.

Why don't you put a voltmeter on the battery. Observe voltage with charger
on and off. Also does your charger have an ammeter, most do. What amps is it
drawing?

I went through a battery reconditioning procedure and got another year out
of my truck. messy time consuming job. let me know if you're interested and
I'll look it up.

Karl

Battery reads 18 volt when I got it. charger output 30 volt open
circuit, just barely moving the meter, about 1.6A with my Fluke DC
clamp on. 28.6 v connected to battery.

What's the recon process?

Tag is definitely a 0 as in 30 volt. Weird, Came up with nothing on
my web search for Hobart 3t12-768 charger and nothing for a Yale
k66c-050g30s071 truck. Is Yale still in business?





On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:51:40 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I've not heard of 30 volt systems. Doesn't mean they don't exist but
certainly rare. A 0 and a 6 could look the same on old tags. Your battery is
36 volt.

Why don't you put a voltmeter on the battery. Observe voltage with charger
on and off. Also does your charger have an ammeter, most do. What amps is it
drawing?

I went through a battery reconditioning procedure and got another year out
of my truck. messy time consuming job. let me know if you're interested and
I'll look it up.

Karl

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Well, now you know why that battery is dead as a door nail. You got to have
about 40 volts to charge a 36 volt battery.

Read this

http://tinyurl.com/2byu9z


I'd first try hooking the charger direct to the truck and see if the truck
is worth fixing. I've run my truck this way in "emergency mode"

Karl

Have your heart medications readily available before you make a call
to inquire about the replacement battery price.

i

If you're just going to move a few pallets around the shop every day or
load a pick-up truck a couple times a week... couldn't you just gang
together three 12v automotive batteries?
You could charge them separately with a regular 12v automotive battery
charger?



"Randy" wrote in message
...
OK, last minute deal, my buddy calls me he's cleaning out a garage and
they have a forklift, I can have it for 500 bucks or he's taking it
for scrap. owner says it works good. WTF, I say bring it over.

Turns out it's a Yale electric. 5000# not bad.

name plate on lift says 30 volts, battery has 18 cells, would that not
be 36 volts?

Hobart charger is marked 30 volts, battery type "LA-12C" which I'm
guessing is lead acid 12 cells, AKA 24 volts. so I have the wrong
charger, which explains way I was told battery does not hold a charge
well.

Am I guessing correctly or way off base.

Will keep this one until I can come up with a good deal on a LP
powered one.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Randy fired this volley in
:

Battery reads 18 volt when I got it. charger output 30 volt open
circuit, just barely moving the meter, about 1.6A with my Fluke DC
clamp on. 28.6 v connected to battery.

What's the recon process?

Tag is definitely a 0 as in 30 volt. Weird, Came up with nothing on
my web search for Hobart 3t12-768 charger and nothing for a Yale
k66c-050g30s071 truck. Is Yale still in business?


Randy, did it occur to you that the lift might really be designed for
30V, and someone - finding the 15-cell battery difficult to obtain (or
just plain stupidly) - swapped it for a 36?

That would explain a lot...

LLoyd

"Karl Townsend" wrote: Well, now you know why that battery is dead as a
door nail. You got to have
about 40 volts to charge a 36 volt battery.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Be careful interpreting voltage readings from a battery charger. It's
rectified AC (half-wave or full-wave) and the peaks will be higher than the
average or RMS value. You can get charging from a setup which, according to
the meter, shouldn't work. I'm not saying that's what your problem is, but
it is something to be aware of.

If you put a husky transformer on the input you might be able to boost the
output voltage enough to charge your battery fully. This could either be a
transformer with a 1.25 (or so) turns ratio, or one that gives you about 6
or 8 volts output, hooked series adding to the line voltage. I expect there
will be enough safety factor built into the charger to tolerate this much
over voltage.

Be aware also that if this battery has been in a discharged state for some
time, it probably has lost part of its capacity.

Randy writes:

Turns out it's a Yale electric. 5000# not bad.

You probably have several $1000s in scrap lead there.

Randy wrote in
:
snip
Tag is definitely a 0 as in 30 volt. Weird, Came up with nothing on
my web search for Hobart 3t12-768 charger and nothing for a Yale
k66c-050g30s071 truck. Is Yale still in business?
snip

Just out of curiosity I played around with some searches and came up with
what appears to be a manual on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/EATON-YALE-TOWNE...LIFT-PARTS-OP-
MANUAL_W0QQitemZ7577120589QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphoto hosting

Looks like the k66c is the main model number???


Just thought I'd let you know.

Bill

"David Courtney" wrote in message
. ..
If you're just going to move a few pallets around the shop every day or
load a pick-up truck a couple times a week... couldn't you just gang
together three 12v automotive batteries?
You could charge them separately with a regular 12v automotive battery
charger?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You probably wouldn't get much running time from just three car batteries.
To increase the running time you could use six or nine batteries in
series-parallel, but then you would have very long charging time trying to
use a regular battery charger. You could hook then in series pairs and
charge them from the 30 volt charger. Mounting that many car batteries in
the fork lift, and hooking and unhooking them for charging would be a bear.

Never mind--it's not a good idea at all. :-)

Battery is the main counterweight in this thing, could not pick up
much without it.



On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:33:04 -0600, "David Courtney"
wrote:

If you're just going to move a few pallets around the shop every day or
load a pick-up truck a couple times a week... couldn't you just gang
together three 12v automotive batteries?
You could charge them separately with a regular 12v automotive battery
charger?


Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

"If you're just going to move a few pallets around the shop every day or
load a pick-up truck a couple times a week..."
(I typed it slower that time... did that help?)

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"David Courtney" wrote in message
. ..
If you're just going to move a few pallets around the shop every day
or load a pick-up truck a couple times a week... couldn't you just gang
together three 12v automotive batteries?
You could charge them separately with a regular 12v automotive battery
charger?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You probably wouldn't get much running time from just three car batteries.
To increase the running time you could use six or nine batteries in
series-parallel, but then you would have very long charging time trying to
use a regular battery charger. You could hook then in series pairs and
charge them from the 30 volt charger. Mounting that many car batteries in
the fork lift, and hooking and unhooking them for charging would be a
bear.

Never mind--it's not a good idea at all. :-)

Charger is connectable for 208/240/480 so I could try the 208 taps,
if I knew how to connect it for that, there's no sticker, and I have
no manual. I did email Hobart, but who knows how old this thing is. I
don't think the output voltage is regulated at all, it looks like a
power supply and a timer, thats it. It will take some more research.




On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:46:51 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Karl Townsend" wrote: Well, now you know why that battery is dead as a
door nail. You got to have
about 40 volts to charge a 36 volt battery.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Be careful interpreting voltage readings from a battery charger. It's
rectified AC (half-wave or full-wave) and the peaks will be higher than the
average or RMS value. You can get charging from a setup which, according to
the meter, shouldn't work. I'm not saying that's what your problem is, but
it is something to be aware of.

If you put a husky transformer on the input you might be able to boost the
output voltage enough to charge your battery fully. This could either be a
transformer with a 1.25 (or so) turns ratio, or one that gives you about 6
or 8 volts output, hooked series adding to the line voltage. I expect there
will be enough safety factor built into the charger to tolerate this much
over voltage.

Be aware also that if this battery has been in a discharged state for some
time, it probably has lost part of its capacity.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:37:07 -0000, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Randy fired this volley in
:

Battery reads 18 volt when I got it. charger output 30 volt open
circuit, just barely moving the meter, about 1.6A with my Fluke DC
clamp on. 28.6 v connected to battery.

What's the recon process?

Tag is definitely a 0 as in 30 volt. Weird, Came up with nothing on
my web search for Hobart 3t12-768 charger and nothing for a Yale
k66c-050g30s071 truck. Is Yale still in business?


Randy, did it occur to you that the lift might really be designed for
30V, and someone - finding the 15-cell battery difficult to obtain (or
just plain stupidly) - swapped it for a 36?

That would explain a lot...

LLoyd



I would believe that.
Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On Feb 22, 10:56 am, Randy wrote:
Charger is connectable for 208/240/480 so I could try the 208 taps,
if I knew how to connect it for that, there's no sticker, and I have
no manual. I did email Hobart, but who knows how old this thing is. I
don't think the output voltage is regulated at all, it looks like a
power supply and a timer, thats it. It will take some more research.

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:46:51 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"



wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote: Well, now you know why that battery is dead as a
door nail. You got to have
about 40 volts to charge a 36 volt battery.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Be careful interpreting voltage readings from a battery charger. It's
rectified AC (half-wave or full-wave) and the peaks will be higher than the
average or RMS value. You can get charging from a setup which, according to
the meter, shouldn't work. I'm not saying that's what your problem is, but
it is something to be aware of.

If you put a husky transformer on the input you might be able to boost the
output voltage enough to charge your battery fully. This could either be a
transformer with a 1.25 (or so) turns ratio, or one that gives you about 6
or 8 volts output, hooked series adding to the line voltage. I expect there
will be enough safety factor built into the charger to tolerate this much
over voltage.

Be aware also that if this battery has been in a discharged state for some
time, it probably has lost part of its capacity.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

So, what AC voltage did you connect to when you got the 30 volts? If
the thing was expecting 240 or 480 volts and you only supplied 220 or
120, then you might see and odd output voltage.

The 208 voltage makes me think 3-phase, the 480 makes me think three-
phase. Could this be the problem?

Paul

Randy wrote:
OK, last minute deal, my buddy calls me he's cleaning out a garage and
they have a forklift, I can have it for 500 bucks or he's taking it
for scrap. owner says it works good. WTF, I say bring it over.

Turns out it's a Yale electric. 5000# not bad.

name plate on lift says 30 volts, battery has 18 cells, would that not
be 36 volts?

Hobart charger is marked 30 volts, battery type "LA-12C" which I'm
guessing is lead acid 12 cells, AKA 24 volts. so I have the wrong
charger, which explains way I was told battery does not hold a charge
well.
I'm guessing the battery set has been swapped for a more common set.
30 V would be something like 15 cells, and may not be available anymore.
I guess 5 3-cell batteries would make a 30 V system. Probably no big
mess to run the 30 V motors and controls off 36, but you need to turn up
the charger output. If the charger is capable of running off 208 or
230, you might be able to re-tap it for 208 and run off 230. This may
make the transformer run hot, but up the output to about 33V, which
still isn't enough. You need a charging voltage of about 42.6 V for a
real 36-V set. Can you re-tap the battery string for about 15 cells?
If so, do that and try to charge the batteries. They may have been
undercharged for so long as to be totally shot, though.

Jon

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Randy fired this volley in
:


Battery reads 18 volt when I got it. charger output 30 volt open
circuit, just barely moving the meter, about 1.6A with my Fluke DC
clamp on. 28.6 v connected to battery.

What's the recon process?

Tag is definitely a 0 as in 30 volt. Weird, Came up with nothing on
my web search for Hobart 3t12-768 charger and nothing for a Yale
k66c-050g30s071 truck. Is Yale still in business?



Randy, did it occur to you that the lift might really be designed for
30V, and someone - finding the 15-cell battery difficult to obtain (or
just plain stupidly) - swapped it for a 36?

That would explain a lot...
The fact it says 30 V in TWO places makes me agree 100% with you!

Jon

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:47:44 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Feb 22, 10:56 am, Randy wrote:
Charger is connectable for 208/240/480 so I could try the 208 taps,
if I knew how to connect it for that, there's no sticker, and I have
no manual. I did email Hobart, but who knows how old this thing is. I
don't think the output voltage is regulated at all, it looks like a
power supply and a timer, thats it. It will take some more research.

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:46:51 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"



wrote:

"Karl Townsend" wrote: Well, now you know why that battery is dead as a
door nail. You got to have
about 40 volts to charge a 36 volt battery.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Be careful interpreting voltage readings from a battery charger. It's
rectified AC (half-wave or full-wave) and the peaks will be higher than the
average or RMS value. You can get charging from a setup which, according to
the meter, shouldn't work. I'm not saying that's what your problem is, but
it is something to be aware of.

If you put a husky transformer on the input you might be able to boost the
output voltage enough to charge your battery fully. This could either be a
transformer with a 1.25 (or so) turns ratio, or one that gives you about 6
or 8 volts output, hooked series adding to the line voltage. I expect there
will be enough safety factor built into the charger to tolerate this much
over voltage.

Be aware also that if this battery has been in a discharged state for some
time, it probably has lost part of its capacity.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

So, what AC voltage did you connect to when you got the 30 volts? If
the thing was expecting 240 or 480 volts and you only supplied 220 or
120, then you might see and odd output voltage.

The 208 voltage makes me think 3-phase, the 480 makes me think three-
phase. Could this be the problem?

Paul

I hooked it to 240 3ph, it does want a 3ph input. it's output is
marked as 30 volts and thats what I got so I'm guessing it's set for
240V. My electrical friend looked at the jumpers and said try it. so
I did.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

If the battery is steel cased, (3'X3', about 3100 lbs) , or 1'X3', the
individual cells can be replaced by a competent lift service man. I have
done it a few times, but it's a scary process, because the connector link
needs to be "welded" back on with a lead filler bar and flame torch. The
links are removed with a coring tool, to preserve the battery post. The
cells have to be purged before work is performed, or a rather large BOOM
will occur. 18 sequential explosions from the open cells made me have to
clean my pants, and decide to decline further repair for the company I was
working for, who wanted to save money by having an in-house mechanic do the
job. Electric trucks are sedate, but very dangerous in various ways. A golf
cart battery charger should possibly work to charge the battery, if the
correct connector is adapted, shouldn't it?. The process in the factory I
worked for at the time was charge, cool battery for 8 hours, run for a
shift, repeat process. This was supposed to dissapate the hydrogen gas
somewhat before the battery was put back into the truck. Batteries were
swapped out to allow lifts to run all shifts.

RJ

"Ignoramus31612" wrote in message
...
Have your heart medications readily available before you make a call
to inquire about the replacement battery price.

i

"David Courtney" wrote: "If you're just going to move a few pallets around
the shop every day or
load a pick-up truck a couple times a week..."
(I typed it slower that time... did that help?)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I get your point, and I enjoyed the manner in which you presented it. (I am
a slow reader.) However, my point was that if you compare the weight/volume
of a typical fork lift battery to three automotive batteries, it suggests
that the capacity might be annoyingly low. My typing speed is as slow as my
reading speed, so I am sure we understand each other now :-)

"David Courtney" wrote in message
. ..
If you're just going to move a few pallets around the shop every day or
load a pick-up truck a couple times a week... couldn't you just gang
together three 12v automotive batteries?
You could charge them separately with a regular 12v automotive battery
charger?



If nothing else, three automotive batteries may be enough to test the unit
out and see if it is worth keeping, or putting money in proper batteries.
Greg

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:42:22 -0500, Randy wrote:

Battery reads 18 volt when I got it. charger output 30 volt open
circuit, just barely moving the meter, about 1.6A with my Fluke DC
clamp on. 28.6 v connected to battery.

What's the recon process?

Tag is definitely a 0 as in 30 volt. Weird, Came up with nothing on
my web search for Hobart 3t12-768 charger and nothing for a Yale
k66c-050g30s071 truck. Is Yale still in business?

The K66 tells that the unit is a sit down counter balance unit that has a
central mounted drive motor that is directly mounted to the differential
and is horizontal to the floor. Manufactured in the 70's or maybe later,
I'm not sure when they changed models but the newer ones resemble these, a
positive sign. The C = cushion tires meaning solid rubber that I recall
are 18' od, 9" wide, 12' id, press on tires. The 050 indicates the
capacity is 5000#. The G30 is battery voltage and perhaps the weight and
minimum dimensions to achieve the 5000# lifting ability. The S071 tells it
is a single stage upright that the lowered height is 71" with the proper
size tires installed so you know what the highest doorway you can drive
through. Normally this model came from the factory as a 36V or 48V model
although Busch Beer ordered 40V models. Go figure~

Yale is still in business and have dealers in most larger cities. The
Serial number should be stamped in the frame on the right side near where
the floor plate is. This will enable the dealer to determine the year of
manufacture. The electronics for the drive system changed through the
years but were SCR systems manufactured by GE. Most, if not all of the
electrical parts should still be available.

Eaton Towne & Yale bought out Automatic Lift in the early 70s to get into
the electric lift truck line. Prior to that Automatic manufactured Yale
electric trucks and they had a different model number than Automatic but
the parts were interchangeable for the most part.

Hobart should be able to provide the diagrams for different voltage tap
configurations but you will need the complete model and serial number of
the charger.

Larger cities will have Industrial Battery Remanufactures. Ask the dealer
which one they use because many dealers choose to send large industrial
batteries out for evaluation and repair.

NEVER, NEVER, lift these batteries with a chain. There are special lifting
methods to lift these batteries. The weight is normally stamped on one
side of the case The Model and serial # and number of plates of the
battery is usually stamped on one of the tie bars for the cells near the
first positive cell (Red cable is attached to the first cell +).

HTH






On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:51:40 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

snipped only for clarity of top poster. Please excuse me Karl

Caution goes on here.

A 36 volt might be exactly that. And the charger might 'average' or 'RMS'
to 36 but 'peak' at much higher than that depending on your measurement.
RMS is .707 of a sine wave. You have half wave or full wave.
You have a fluke ? - does it have frequency ? RMS ? Peak?

Waveform ?

You might have lossy cells - lead might be shorting a cell out at the
bottom - flaking out - and shorting a cell above it.

Take the battery out - can you even lift it... if you can with an apron
tip it from side to side. That might do it.

I'd try to see if you can measure each cell. Many big batteries are strapped
between cells. You can find a bad one. It might be low of water.

It might have sit for a long time. Sulphurized the plates ? Hum.

Much to learn.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Karl Townsend wrote:
Well, now you know why that battery is dead as a door nail. You got to have
about 40 volts to charge a 36 volt battery.

Read this

http://tinyurl.com/2byu9z


I'd first try hooking the charger direct to the truck and see if the truck
is worth fixing. I've run my truck this way in "emergency mode"

Karl

Found a relay on the charger that drops the charge voltage from (40V)
full charge to 30V float charge, Stuck a zip tie in to hold the relay
open, Now I'm finially starting to get some charge in this thing.
Charging at about 75A now.

Trying to get info from Yale and Hobart.

Thanks for all the replies.



On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:32:21 -0500, Randy wrote:

OK, last minute deal, my buddy calls me he's cleaning out a garage and
they have a forklift, I can have it for 500 bucks or he's taking it
for scrap. owner says it works good. WTF, I say bring it over.

Turns out it's a Yale electric. 5000# not bad.

name plate on lift says 30 volts, battery has 18 cells, would that not
be 36 volts?

Hobart charger is marked 30 volts, battery type "LA-12C" which I'm
guessing is lead acid 12 cells, AKA 24 volts. so I have the wrong
charger, which explains way I was told battery does not hold a charge
well.

Am I guessing correctly or way off base.

Will keep this one until I can come up with a good deal on a LP
powered one.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.
Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:54:00 -0500, RLM wrote:

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:42:22 -0500, Randy wrote:

Battery reads 18 volt when I got it. charger output 30 volt open
circuit, just barely moving the meter, about 1.6A with my Fluke DC
clamp on. 28.6 v connected to battery.

What's the recon process?

Tag is definitely a 0 as in 30 volt. Weird, Came up with nothing on
my web search for Hobart 3t12-768 charger and nothing for a Yale
k66c-050g30s071 truck. Is Yale still in business?

The K66 tells that the unit is a sit down counter balance unit that has a
central mounted drive motor that is directly mounted to the differential
and is horizontal to the floor. Manufactured in the 70's or maybe later,
I'm not sure when they changed models but the newer ones resemble these, a
positive sign. The C = cushion tires meaning solid rubber that I recall
are 18' od, 9" wide, 12' id, press on tires. The 050 indicates the
capacity is 5000#. The G30 is battery voltage and perhaps the weight and
minimum dimensions to achieve the 5000# lifting ability. The S071 tells it
is a single stage upright that the lowered height is 71" with the proper
size tires installed so you know what the highest doorway you can drive
through. Normally this model came from the factory as a 36V or 48V model
although Busch Beer ordered 40V models. Go figure~

Yale is still in business and have dealers in most larger cities. The
Serial number should be stamped in the frame on the right side near where
the floor plate is. This will enable the dealer to determine the year of
manufacture. The electronics for the drive system changed through the
years but were SCR systems manufactured by GE. Most, if not all of the
electrical parts should still be available.

Per my local Yale dealer this is a 1972 truck. They would photocopy
the owners manual for me as a new copy is no longer available. The
one on ebay was coorect for my truck so I bought it. I was told to
get a manual with a printing date as close as possible, but not newer
than, the year of my truck. (sort of like the price is right)


Eaton Towne & Yale bought out Automatic Lift in the early 70s to get into
the electric lift truck line. Prior to that Automatic manufactured Yale
electric trucks and they had a different model number than Automatic but
the parts were interchangeable for the most part.

Hobart should be able to provide the diagrams for different voltage tap
configurations but you will need the complete model and serial number of
the charger.

Ammetek bought out the hobart line of chargers, called them and got a
schematic. Very helpful people.


Larger cities will have Industrial Battery Remanufactures. Ask the dealer
which one they use because many dealers choose to send large industrial
batteries out for evaluation and repair.

NEVER, NEVER, lift these batteries with a chain. There are special lifting
methods to lift these batteries. The weight is normally stamped on one
side of the case The Model and serial # and number of plates of the
battery is usually stamped on one of the tie bars for the cells near the
first positive cell (Red cable is attached to the first cell +).

Yep, had the number system explained to me see new post on batteries.

Thanks for the reply you had a better breakdown of the model number
then the Yale dealer did. They're still not sure what the G is for.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.