Buying thread cutting taps dies and best type of tool steel touse????
Can anyone advise about what type of taps to get, pros cons of types
of tool steel in different materials etc. I see many different taps, cheap chinese to top name brand, many different prices. I know people say buy top of the range name brand as you get what you pay for. But as a poor hobbiest my budget does not strech to that. I wonder what would be regarded as best all round material for a tap and die set? I have seen tungsten, hss (in various Cobalt%), carbon steel, tin coated, and others. I wonder what is best for taps and dies. Is it more important to have a toolsteel that holds a very sharp edge, is very hard, or is very tough. Taps cut very slow so heating is not a problem. Are there any tests to see what the quality is of the taps I buy is?. What is most important thing to consider when buying a tap? Does anyone have any references to books or web pages on the subject? How do I know when my tap of die has become blunt and how can it be sharpened? I really know nothing about tapping other than it is important to drill the right size hole, use plenty of cutting oil or tallow, and to make sure the tap is centered and parallel in the hole. I am initially wanting to tap mild steel but would be interested in tips on tapping in all metals (stainless, high tensile, brass, aluminum, etc..). |
Buying thread cutting taps dies and best type of tool steel to use????
"Robert Swinney" wrote in message ... You are not going to get any visibility to the type of steel used in taps and dies. Unless you were a metallurgist, knowing the exact formulation would be over your head anyway. Don't go "cheep" when buying cutting tools of any kind. Bob Swinney I have to agree with Bob, but it's a little like going out to eat with a friend of mine . He derides many of my favorites as "peasants' food," while I maintain he'll eat fried weeds if the price is high enough. Junk is junk, but you can get some fairly good tools at rather attractive prices and pay a lot more for tools that aren't nearly as good. And the interesting thing is that they may all be fairly priced! The problem is what constitutes "good." "Good" means good for your application. Especially when you buy on the Internet (MSC, etc.), you need to know exactly what you need. There's an old adage that, if you don't know your jewels, you'd better know your jeweler. If you have the luxury of being able to buy from a "real" tool store, one that's been around for a long time supplying machine shops of all descriptions, they will know what they sell to shops that do the sorts of things you want to do. Many very high quality (and expensive) tools (taps, dies, drills, endmills, etc., etc., etc...) are designed to be used in tightly controlled production machines working a particular material under very specific conditions. Used as such, they do a supurb job and last a long time. They are well worth their price. But, for the HSM (or even the general machine shop) where they will be mis-applied, they don't last and are a waste of money. OK, this is a long winded way of saying there is no real easy answer. It is true that you get what you pay for, but it is very easy to spend a lot more money than you need to. It also makes little sense to spend a lot for taps and dies that will lay in the drawer for years being rarely, if ever, used. I would, therefore, suggest you buy a reasonable set (maybe a step up from hardware store stuff, but not much more...), identify a better grade of tool that is apropos to your application (talk to a friendly experienced machinist, vocational school instructor or a long-term salesman at a reputable tool store) and replace your cheaper tools with the better ones as they wear out. That way, you'll end up with a set of tools that meets your needs, still have the sizes you need for the rare, oddball, job and keep your wallet from getting completely drained... Jerry |
Buying thread cutting taps dies and best type of tool steel touse????
On Feb 20, 4:29*pm, wrote:
Can anyone advise about what type of taps to get, pros cons of types of tool steel in different materials etc...... I looked through the tap drawers downstairs and found a wide range from Morse, Greenfield and TRW (good) through Hanson, Bay State and Anser (adequate) to Anonymous and Made In India (still sharp, somehow). A mirror-like ground finish on the shank and threads is often a good sign of quality, though that may not help much with mail- order selection. Be suspicious of taps with the finish and grey color of a nail. For light home shop use you could buy plastic-cased metric, USS and SAE sets and replace them as they dull. Then you will automatically have good taps in the sizes you use most and at least something to clean up odd damaged threads on the kids' bicycles, plus safe organized storage so they don't bang together and dull each other. I have used these sets in small company shops and most of the taps were reasonably sharp. They came from MSC or McMaster-Carr, though, not Harbor Freight or the local Dollar Store. Spiral point taps which curl the chips forward are a good choice as long as you can dig the chips out of blind holes. They are excellent for through holes, cut noticeably easier and if you're careful can be sharpened by grinding the flute groove with a Dremel or round whetstone. Someone with a tool and cutter grinding setup (I'm not volunteering) can relief-grind the conical point to salvage large, expensive taps that sell very cheap when dull. I've tried to sharpen them that way by hand but it never worked well. Jim Wilkins |
Buying thread cutting taps dies and best type of tool steel to use????
I've had a set from Sears for about 20 years. Small-ish set, all SAE. I've
used them hundreds and hundreds of times and they're still sharp. I haven't broken one yet, either. Craftsman still makes them I believe. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...P?keyword=taps looks about the same as the one I have (different case). Worth a trip to Sears...see if they're still made in the USA. I would NEVER buy an "import" tap set. Tapping is usually one of the last operations when fabricating a part and you DO NOT want to bust a tap off in a hole after all that work, do you? BTW, invest in some tapping fluid, too. Nok wrote in message ... Can anyone advise about what type of taps to get, pros cons of types of tool steel in different materials etc. I see many different taps, cheap chinese to top name brand, many different prices. I know people say buy top of the range name brand as you get what you pay for. But as a poor hobbiest my budget does not strech to that. I wonder what would be regarded as best all round material for a tap and die set? I have seen tungsten, hss (in various Cobalt%), carbon steel, tin coated, and others. I wonder what is best for taps and dies. Is it more important to have a toolsteel that holds a very sharp edge, is very hard, or is very tough. Taps cut very slow so heating is not a problem. Are there any tests to see what the quality is of the taps I buy is?. What is most important thing to consider when buying a tap? Does anyone have any references to books or web pages on the subject? How do I know when my tap of die has become blunt and how can it be sharpened? I really know nothing about tapping other than it is important to drill the right size hole, use plenty of cutting oil or tallow, and to make sure the tap is centered and parallel in the hole. I am initially wanting to tap mild steel but would be interested in tips on tapping in all metals (stainless, high tensile, brass, aluminum, etc..). |
Buying thread cutting taps dies and best type of tool steel to use????
|
Buying thread cutting taps dies and best type of tool steel to use????
The really cheap Chiwanese black high carbon taps are VERY
brittle and easy to break. Smearing Tn on them doesn't make them any better. They work and, as someone else pointed out , you can shatter out the broken stuff some times. These are the least expensive. Only you can judge whether they are a good value. I would suggest a set that has the taps and dies for everyday stuff. I have one decent set that has tapered taps in 1/4 , 5/16, 3/8, 7/16, and 1/2 both coarse and fine. A set will have a tap handle and die driver. As you need smaller taps than 1/4", buy them 2 or more at a time as they break easily. You may need a smaller tap handle. You will probably not need dies in other sizes. As you buy individual taps, buy quality. Don't throw out broken taps, they can make poor man's bottoming taps. Heat is a major factor in both taps and dies. Don't plan on being able to re sharpen a tap or die. Make sure you know about turning a tap backwards to break the chip free before you break the tap. Your hand needs to be robot-like when driving a tap, keeping all the pressures in line with the tap direction, twisting to one side or the other breaks taps. If you have a scrap piece of aluminum or brass about a quarter inch thick, it would make an excellent learning tool. They are both so soft, you hopefully won't break a tap and you can get a feel for what you are doing. You can probably drive the tap without ever having to turn the tap backwards, but you should certainly get in the habit. Steel will not give you that luxury when hand tapping. There are exotic names and types, but there are plenty of good brand names that make serviceable stuff like: Greenlee, Magnum, Hanson, Craftsman, and many others. -- ______________________________ Keep the whole world singing . . . . DanG (remove the sevens) wrote in message ... Can anyone advise about what type of taps to get, pros cons of types of tool steel in different materials etc. I see many different taps, cheap chinese to top name brand, many different prices. I know people say buy top of the range name brand as you get what you pay for. But as a poor hobbiest my budget does not strech to that. I wonder what would be regarded as best all round material for a tap and die set? I have seen tungsten, hss (in various Cobalt%), carbon steel, tin coated, and others. I wonder what is best for taps and dies. Is it more important to have a toolsteel that holds a very sharp edge, is very hard, or is very tough. Taps cut very slow so heating is not a problem. Are there any tests to see what the quality is of the taps I buy is?. What is most important thing to consider when buying a tap? Does anyone have any references to books or web pages on the subject? How do I know when my tap of die has become blunt and how can it be sharpened? I really know nothing about tapping other than it is important to drill the right size hole, use plenty of cutting oil or tallow, and to make sure the tap is centered and parallel in the hole. I am initially wanting to tap mild steel but would be interested in tips on tapping in all metals (stainless, high tensile, brass, aluminum, etc..). |
Buying thread cutting taps dies and best type of tool steel to use????
|
Buying thread cutting taps dies and best type of tool steel touse????
On Feb 23, 11:36*am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote: ... That was an excellent description of a tap collection for fabrication. The sets are good for repair work, like cleaning up corroded male and female threads on outdoor equipment or tapping stripped holes larger. You can use them to find the size of a lost screw to buy a replacement. I use a Huot index for the drill and one good tap in each size and keep the rest in drawers with nylon or brass nuts screwed on to protect them from each other. Jim Wilkins |
Buying thread cutting taps dies and best type of tool steel to use????
On 2008-02-23, F George McDuffee wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:29:16 -0800 (PST), wrote: snip I wonder what would be regarded as best all round material for a tap and die set? snip ================ I suggest that you consider if you need a *SET*. Most hobby machinists have a type/size of work they tend to do most of their work in, and there tends to be only a few thread sizes in any given type/size of work. Thus with a set you will wind up with a large number of taps/dies you won't use. [ ... ] If possible, talk to some other home shop machinists that are doing the types of work you are interested in and see what the common threads are. Metric is becoming increasingly common. This reminds me of the one set which I consider a worthwhile purchase. I got mine from MSC (not in today's sales flyer, but maybe in another soon). This is what I use for most metric work -- a HUOT index which contains a few common size taps (gun taps, FWIW with TiN coating) and the corresponding tap drill to go with each tap. It does not cover all sizes by a long shot, but it provides most of the sizes which I need from time to time -- even resulting in my choosing to use metric for certain projects, since I did not have to go off and purchase a tap specifically for the project. Note that this set does not have any dies. But I do my metric threads on my Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC lathe, where the choice of inch or metric is just flipping a switch and then keying in the thread pitch and depth. There are similar HUOT index sets for inch sizes, but I already had all of the sizes which I needed to use -- many of some, only a few of others. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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