Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Bull**** by the numbers

SteveB wrote:
Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty box
into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst. I
know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't understand
what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real life
situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in driving.

Steve




They're doing the same kind of crap that Ford has done in some of their
ads, dropping supposedly heavy loads into the bed from various
altitudes. did you notice that the cables (two of them) were still
attached after the "load" landed? I always take anything I see in a
commercial with a BLOCK of salt! :-)

Jim
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Default Bull**** by the numbers

Hmmm, can't help with the conundrum and who cares if it is
misleading, a lot of ads are. You ever bought a hamburger that looks
like the ones in the ad?

30,000# is only 7500# per wheel and a tire would probably managed to
cope with that momentary load without bursting. Might rip some cords
but hitting a deep pot hole at speed can momentary load up a tire as
much or more than that.

I know that an object gains energy as it falls.


"Gains energy," really? I suspect you mean the energy is converted
from Potential to Kinetic! {grin}

Dave

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Default Bull**** by the numbers

Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty box
into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst. I
know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't understand
what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real life
situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in driving.

Steve


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Default Bull**** by the numbers


"Dave, I can't do that" (clip) 30,000# is only 7500# per wheel and a tire
would probably managed to
cope with that momentary load without bursting.(clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree that the ad has no realistic meaning, so this is academic.
*Placing* 30,000 lb in the truck bed and *dropping* the same weight into the
bed are not the same. If the springs and tires compress so the bed drops 1'
(say). and the weight drops from a height of 10' (say), the deceleration is
10 G's. That's equivalent to *placing* a weight of 300,000# in the truck.


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On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:11:27 -0800, SteveB wrote:

Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty
box into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst.
I know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't
understand what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real
life situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in
driving.

Steve


I think I saw that ad, but with the sound turned off. You mean you don't
live in a place where helicopters routinely drop large crates into the
backs of moving pickups? Here in Oregon City we have to keep an eye out
for that all the time. We just listen for a helicopter and start
swerving when we do (unless we drive Toyotas, in which case we know it'll
turn out OK). However, just east of here in Estacada and Molalla it
happens so often that truck owners openly display rifles in the back
windows of their trucks, as a warning to the helicopter pilots that they
may be shot down if they make the attempt.

Of course, these guys rarely try this trick if you have a canopy, a pipe
rack or even a tonneau cover, so the country-boy wannabes who move to
Estacada or Molalla for the cheap housing and proximity to hiking (at all
times of the year but hunting season, where you may encounter men with
Guns), will often have these mounted on their trucks as protection.

Did they really say "30,000 pounds of energy"? If so, they were
emphatically stating that they don't know physics, or that in their
considered opinion you don't, because a pound is not a measure of
energy. To be excruciatingly technical, a pound is a measure of force,
which makes a foot-pound a measure of energy (as well as of torque, it
depends on what you do with it). Even if you take a pound as a measure
of mass (it isn't, although engineers do use a "pound-mass" to mean
approximately 1/32 of a slug) then it's still not a measure of energy
unless you either (a) specify a velocity (squared) to multiply the mass
by, or (b) assume that they meant the energy released by directly
converting over 13000 kilograms of mass to energy, in which case the
truck, the helicopter, and possibly the entire earth would have been
blown up.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


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Default Bull**** by the numbers

SteveB wrote:

Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty box
into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst. I
know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't understand
what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real life
situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in driving.

Steve


This is what happens when you let clueless marketing dweebs read and
misinterpret technical literature and then have the ad copy run by
equally clueless lawyers.
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"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:11:27 -0800, SteveB wrote:

Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty
box into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst.
I know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't
understand what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real
life situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in
driving.

Steve


I think I saw that ad, but with the sound turned off. You mean you don't
live in a place where helicopters routinely drop large crates into the
backs of moving pickups? Here in Oregon City we have to keep an eye out
for that all the time. We just listen for a helicopter and start
swerving when we do (unless we drive Toyotas, in which case we know it'll
turn out OK). However, just east of here in Estacada and Molalla it
happens so often that truck owners openly display rifles in the back
windows of their trucks, as a warning to the helicopter pilots that they
may be shot down if they make the attempt.

Of course, these guys rarely try this trick if you have a canopy, a pipe
rack or even a tonneau cover, so the country-boy wannabes who move to
Estacada or Molalla for the cheap housing and proximity to hiking (at all
times of the year but hunting season, where you may encounter men with
Guns), will often have these mounted on their trucks as protection.

Did they really say "30,000 pounds of energy"? If so, they were
emphatically stating that they don't know physics, or that in their
considered opinion you don't, because a pound is not a measure of
energy. To be excruciatingly technical, a pound is a measure of force,
which makes a foot-pound a measure of energy (as well as of torque, it
depends on what you do with it). Even if you take a pound as a measure
of mass (it isn't, although engineers do use a "pound-mass" to mean
approximately 1/32 of a slug) then it's still not a measure of energy
unless you either (a) specify a velocity (squared) to multiply the mass
by, or (b) assume that they meant the energy released by directly
converting over 13000 kilograms of mass to energy, in which case the
truck, the helicopter, and possibly the entire earth would have been
blown up.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


Tim,
That's exactly why I moved from Oregon City. I own a Chevy, and with all the
helicopters flying around (especially during the pre-Christmas tree harvest
season), I was at my wit's end. Simply never knowing when or where a 30,000
# mystery box would land in the back of my pickup was more than I could
bear.
Been flying lately, or has the rain got all of you guys grounded?
Paul


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42 wrote:
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:11:27 -0800, SteveB wrote:

Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty
box into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst.
I know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't
understand what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real
life situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in
driving.

Steve

I think I saw that ad, but with the sound turned off. You mean you don't
live in a place where helicopters routinely drop large crates into the
backs of moving pickups? Here in Oregon City we have to keep an eye out
for that all the time. We just listen for a helicopter and start
swerving when we do (unless we drive Toyotas, in which case we know it'll
turn out OK). However, just east of here in Estacada and Molalla it
happens so often that truck owners openly display rifles in the back
windows of their trucks, as a warning to the helicopter pilots that they
may be shot down if they make the attempt.

Of course, these guys rarely try this trick if you have a canopy, a pipe
rack or even a tonneau cover, so the country-boy wannabes who move to
Estacada or Molalla for the cheap housing and proximity to hiking (at all
times of the year but hunting season, where you may encounter men with
Guns), will often have these mounted on their trucks as protection.

Did they really say "30,000 pounds of energy"? If so, they were
emphatically stating that they don't know physics, or that in their
considered opinion you don't, because a pound is not a measure of
energy. To be excruciatingly technical, a pound is a measure of force,
which makes a foot-pound a measure of energy (as well as of torque, it
depends on what you do with it). Even if you take a pound as a measure
of mass (it isn't, although engineers do use a "pound-mass" to mean
approximately 1/32 of a slug) then it's still not a measure of energy
unless you either (a) specify a velocity (squared) to multiply the mass
by, or (b) assume that they meant the energy released by directly
converting over 13000 kilograms of mass to energy, in which case the
truck, the helicopter, and possibly the entire earth would have been
blown up.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


Tim,
That's exactly why I moved from Oregon City. I own a Chevy, and with all the
helicopters flying around (especially during the pre-Christmas tree harvest
season), I was at my wit's end. Simply never knowing when or where a 30,000
# mystery box would land in the back of my pickup was more than I could
bear.
Been flying lately, or has the rain got all of you guys grounded?
Paul


I've been too busy to build them faster than I can crash them, so I
mostly go out to the field on Saturdays and visit with people.

I've been considering cutting out a paper airplane shape out of Depron,
gluing a radio and motor on it, telling it that it's an airplane and
flinging it into the air. I don't even have time for _that_, though.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
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"Jim Chandler" wrote in message
news:voiuj.619$JF.216@trnddc01...
SteveB wrote:
Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty
box into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst.
I know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't
understand what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real
life situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in
driving.

Steve



They're doing the same kind of crap that Ford has done in some of their
ads, dropping supposedly heavy loads into the bed from various altitudes.
did you notice that the cables (two of them) were still attached after the
"load" landed? I always take anything I see in a commercial with a BLOCK
of salt! :-)

Jim


Never even thought of the two cables, but in order to guide it into the bed,
they would have to be somewhat taut, and that would take SOME of the load.

Steve


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"Dave, I can't do that" wrote in message
...
Hmmm, can't help with the conundrum and who cares if it is
misleading, a lot of ads are. You ever bought a hamburger that looks
like the ones in the ad?

30,000# is only 7500# per wheel and a tire would probably managed to
cope with that momentary load without bursting. Might rip some cords
but hitting a deep pot hole at speed can momentary load up a tire as
much or more than that.

I know that an object gains energy as it falls.


"Gains energy," really? I suspect you mean the energy is converted
from Potential to Kinetic! {grin}

Dave


Gee, Dave. I don't know. You're so smart, you tell me what I meant.

Steve




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"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:11:27 -0800, SteveB wrote:

Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty
box into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst.
I know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't
understand what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real
life situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in
driving.

Steve


I think I saw that ad, but with the sound turned off. You mean you don't
live in a place where helicopters routinely drop large crates into the
backs of moving pickups? Here in Oregon City we have to keep an eye out
for that all the time. We just listen for a helicopter and start
swerving when we do (unless we drive Toyotas, in which case we know it'll
turn out OK). However, just east of here in Estacada and Molalla it
happens so often that truck owners openly display rifles in the back
windows of their trucks, as a warning to the helicopter pilots that they
may be shot down if they make the attempt.

Of course, these guys rarely try this trick if you have a canopy, a pipe
rack or even a tonneau cover, so the country-boy wannabes who move to
Estacada or Molalla for the cheap housing and proximity to hiking (at all
times of the year but hunting season, where you may encounter men with
Guns), will often have these mounted on their trucks as protection.

Did they really say "30,000 pounds of energy"? If so, they were
emphatically stating that they don't know physics, or that in their
considered opinion you don't, because a pound is not a measure of
energy. To be excruciatingly technical, a pound is a measure of force,
which makes a foot-pound a measure of energy (as well as of torque, it
depends on what you do with it). Even if you take a pound as a measure
of mass (it isn't, although engineers do use a "pound-mass" to mean
approximately 1/32 of a slug) then it's still not a measure of energy
unless you either (a) specify a velocity (squared) to multiply the mass
by, or (b) assume that they meant the energy released by directly
converting over 13000 kilograms of mass to energy, in which case the
truck, the helicopter, and possibly the entire earth would have been
blown up.

--
Tim Wescott


What he said.


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"Pete C." wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:

Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty
box
into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst.
I
know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't
understand
what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real
life
situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in driving.

Steve


This is what happens when you let clueless marketing dweebs read and
misinterpret technical literature and then have the ad copy run by
equally clueless lawyers.


I'm surprised that they didn't have a buxom blonde with big hair in there
running an OA torch (with acetylene valve only open) and wearing a tank top
and a welding hood.

Steve


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"SteveB" wrote in message
...

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real

life
situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in driving.


The whole idea of driving is to not run in to anything.


--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.


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It maybe just a cultural mis-step, with Toyota top dogs in Japan giving the
OK to the ad smug in the knowledge that NASCAR fans are ignorant rednecks
who would fall for anything. On the other hand, the possibility of a big
crate falling into your truck is about the same as needing 4 wheel drive
going to and from Albertsons every day.

"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real

life
situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in driving.


The whole idea of driving is to not run in to anything.


--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.




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"Jim Insolo" wrote in message
...
It maybe just a cultural mis-step, with Toyota top dogs in Japan giving
the
OK to the ad smug in the knowledge that NASCAR fans are ignorant rednecks
who would fall for anything. On the other hand, the possibility of a big
crate falling into your truck is about the same as needing 4 wheel drive
going to and from Albertsons every day.


I guess some rednecks are stooping to driving Toyotas today. But the ones I
have seen are wannabe rednecks driving wannabe trucks. But then, with the
high price tag mentality, they think for some reason the truck is better
than others.

BTW, have you tried getting into the Albertson's store in Cedar City, Utah
through the snow drifts? 4wd works.

Steve




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On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:06:07 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:56:18 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Jim Insolo" wrote in message
...
It maybe just a cultural mis-step, with Toyota top dogs in Japan
giving the
OK to the ad smug in the knowledge that NASCAR fans are ignorant
rednecks who would fall for anything. On the other hand, the
possibility of a big crate falling into your truck is about the same
as needing 4 wheel drive going to and from Albertsons every day.


I guess some rednecks are stooping to driving Toyotas today. But the
ones I have seen are wannabe rednecks driving wannabe trucks. But then,
with the high price tag mentality, they think for some reason the truck
is better than others.

BTW, have you tried getting into the Albertson's store in Cedar City,
Utah through the snow drifts? 4wd works.

Steve

Just out of curiosity, what is a "wannabe redneck"?

(snip)

I don't know about Steve, but I'd put it down as someone who lives a
suburban life, but has some peculiar notions about the ease and joy of
living in the country so they try to imitate the external signs of a
country boy (or girl) without really having a clue of what is actually
involved. Your average country life can be quite joyous, but it's only
easy if you're filthy rich.

So, here some of the signs that I look for:

* Dressed like a cowboy going to a dance, but:
* They do it every day, to go to the office;
* they wouldn't know which end of a horse to put a halter on, much
less how to do so without injury to themselves or the horse;
* they think the question "do you prefer a snaffle or a curb?" is
either about car racing or bizarre sexual practices.
* They drive a five year old "truck" which has no scratches on the bed.
* They have a big shiny 4WD rig that has never left dry pavement.
* They have ****kicker boots which have never, ever, touched _anything_
that came out of a horse.

(I'd put in a dig about always voting republican because Regan was a real
cowboy, but I'll refrain in no small part because fools come in all
political stripes).

I suppose if there were movies about heroic welders ("Return to Brokeback
Shipyard"?) you'd see people wearing pristine welding caps, boots and
shirts...

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
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On Feb 19, 2:13 pm, Tim Wescott wrote:

I don't know about Steve, but I'd put it down as someone who lives a
suburban life, but has some peculiar notions about the ease and joy of
living in the country so they try to imitate the external signs of a
country boy (or girl) without really having a clue of what is actually
involved. Your average country life can be quite joyous, but it's only
easy if you're filthy rich.


I don't think it's that so much as the desire to be seen as a MAN.
Too many guys are in dorky office jobs and envy the guy who can use a
chainsaw or other dangerous stuff, or even wrenches and hammers. Just
look at the flyers from the hardware and tool shops: full of stuff
aimed right at those office guys. Not much of it is really useful to
the real outdoorsman or mechanic, but it sure looks good in the garage
or yard. Impresses the other dorky guys in the neighborhood. Until
the user cuts off a hand or something. Or gets his 4x4 stuck in a
tiny puddle. Or rolls it into the ditch, a result of thinking that
having 4WD makes him immune to the black ice.
Lots of guys have grown up in homes where there was no chance
of fooling with mechanical stuff, and they miss it. I made sure my son
had access to lots of tools, power tools of his own when he was only
10 or so, things like a small drill press and scroll saw. Now he is
admired for his abilities, while his friends are all going to college
to try to learn something.

Dan
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"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:06:07 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:56:18 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Jim Insolo" wrote in message
...
It maybe just a cultural mis-step, with Toyota top dogs in Japan
giving the
OK to the ad smug in the knowledge that NASCAR fans are ignorant
rednecks who would fall for anything. On the other hand, the
possibility of a big crate falling into your truck is about the same
as needing 4 wheel drive going to and from Albertsons every day.

I guess some rednecks are stooping to driving Toyotas today. But the
ones I have seen are wannabe rednecks driving wannabe trucks. But then,
with the high price tag mentality, they think for some reason the truck
is better than others.

BTW, have you tried getting into the Albertson's store in Cedar City,
Utah through the snow drifts? 4wd works.

Steve

Just out of curiosity, what is a "wannabe redneck"?

(snip)

I don't know about Steve, but I'd put it down as someone who lives a
suburban life, but has some peculiar notions about the ease and joy of
living in the country so they try to imitate the external signs of a
country boy (or girl) without really having a clue of what is actually
involved. Your average country life can be quite joyous, but it's only
easy if you're filthy rich.

So, here some of the signs that I look for:

* Dressed like a cowboy going to a dance, but:
* They do it every day, to go to the office;
* they wouldn't know which end of a horse to put a halter on, much
less how to do so without injury to themselves or the horse;
* they think the question "do you prefer a snaffle or a curb?" is
either about car racing or bizarre sexual practices.
* They drive a five year old "truck" which has no scratches on the bed.
* They have a big shiny 4WD rig that has never left dry pavement.
* They have ****kicker boots which have never, ever, touched _anything_
that came out of a horse.

(I'd put in a dig about always voting republican because Regan was a real
cowboy, but I'll refrain in no small part because fools come in all
political stripes).

I suppose if there were movies about heroic welders ("Return to Brokeback
Shipyard"?) you'd see people wearing pristine welding caps, boots and
shirts...

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


Boy, you hit it on the head. Only thing I'd add is that they would be
wearing creased ironed starched Levis, and similarly treated Wrangler
shirts. Plaid, pink, puce, or mauve, of course.

Steve


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wrote in message
...
On Feb 19, 2:13 pm, Tim Wescott wrote:

I don't know about Steve, but I'd put it down as someone who lives a
suburban life, but has some peculiar notions about the ease and joy of
living in the country so they try to imitate the external signs of a
country boy (or girl) without really having a clue of what is actually
involved. Your average country life can be quite joyous, but it's only
easy if you're filthy rich.


I don't think it's that so much as the desire to be seen as a MAN.
Too many guys are in dorky office jobs and envy the guy who can use a
chainsaw or other dangerous stuff, or even wrenches and hammers. Just
look at the flyers from the hardware and tool shops: full of stuff
aimed right at those office guys. Not much of it is really useful to
the real outdoorsman or mechanic, but it sure looks good in the garage
or yard. Impresses the other dorky guys in the neighborhood. Until
the user cuts off a hand or something. Or gets his 4x4 stuck in a
tiny puddle. Or rolls it into the ditch, a result of thinking that
having 4WD makes him immune to the black ice.
Lots of guys have grown up in homes where there was no chance
of fooling with mechanical stuff, and they miss it. I made sure my son
had access to lots of tools, power tools of his own when he was only
10 or so, things like a small drill press and scroll saw. Now he is
admired for his abilities, while his friends are all going to college
to try to learn something.

Dan


I think that early access to reality problem solving kickstarts something in
the brain. That early start gives them a leg up that the others never catch
up on. Just like a 20 year old will never catch up to the age of a 40 year
old.

Steve


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Default Bull**** by the numbers

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:00:26 -0800, SteveB wrote:

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:06:07 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:56:18 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Jim Insolo" wrote in message
...
It maybe just a cultural mis-step, with Toyota top dogs in Japan
giving the
OK to the ad smug in the knowledge that NASCAR fans are ignorant
rednecks who would fall for anything. On the other hand, the
possibility of a big crate falling into your truck is about the same
as needing 4 wheel drive going to and from Albertsons every day.

I guess some rednecks are stooping to driving Toyotas today. But the
ones I have seen are wannabe rednecks driving wannabe trucks. But
then, with the high price tag mentality, they think for some reason
the truck is better than others.

BTW, have you tried getting into the Albertson's store in Cedar City,
Utah through the snow drifts? 4wd works.

Steve

Just out of curiosity, what is a "wannabe redneck"?

(snip)

I don't know about Steve, but I'd put it down as someone who lives a
suburban life, but has some peculiar notions about the ease and joy of
living in the country so they try to imitate the external signs of a
country boy (or girl) without really having a clue of what is actually
involved. Your average country life can be quite joyous, but it's only
easy if you're filthy rich.

So, here some of the signs that I look for:

* Dressed like a cowboy going to a dance, but:
* They do it every day, to go to the office; * they wouldn't know
which end of a horse to put a halter on, much
less how to do so without injury to themselves or the horse;
* they think the question "do you prefer a snaffle or a curb?" is
either about car racing or bizarre sexual practices.
* They drive a five year old "truck" which has no scratches on the bed.
* They have a big shiny 4WD rig that has never left dry pavement. *
They have ****kicker boots which have never, ever, touched _anything_
that came out of a horse.

(I'd put in a dig about always voting republican because Regan was a
real cowboy, but I'll refrain in no small part because fools come in
all political stripes).

I suppose if there were movies about heroic welders ("Return to
Brokeback Shipyard"?) you'd see people wearing pristine welding caps,
boots and shirts...

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


Boy, you hit it on the head. Only thing I'd add is that they would be
wearing creased ironed starched Levis, and similarly treated Wrangler
shirts. Plaid, pink, puce, or mauve, of course.

Steve


At one point they were wearing mechanically aged (stone washed) Levis. I
think you're still not ineffably cool if your pants don't come from the
store ripped up.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


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Default Bull**** by the numbers

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:00:26 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:06:07 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:56:18 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Jim Insolo" wrote in message
...
It maybe just a cultural mis-step, with Toyota top dogs in Japan
giving the
OK to the ad smug in the knowledge that NASCAR fans are ignorant
rednecks who would fall for anything. On the other hand, the
possibility of a big crate falling into your truck is about the same
as needing 4 wheel drive going to and from Albertsons every day.

I guess some rednecks are stooping to driving Toyotas today. But the
ones I have seen are wannabe rednecks driving wannabe trucks. But then,
with the high price tag mentality, they think for some reason the truck
is better than others.

BTW, have you tried getting into the Albertson's store in Cedar City,
Utah through the snow drifts? 4wd works.

Steve

Just out of curiosity, what is a "wannabe redneck"?

(snip)

I don't know about Steve, but I'd put it down as someone who lives a
suburban life, but has some peculiar notions about the ease and joy of
living in the country so they try to imitate the external signs of a
country boy (or girl) without really having a clue of what is actually
involved. Your average country life can be quite joyous, but it's only
easy if you're filthy rich.

So, here some of the signs that I look for:

* Dressed like a cowboy going to a dance, but:
* They do it every day, to go to the office;
* they wouldn't know which end of a horse to put a halter on, much
less how to do so without injury to themselves or the horse;
* they think the question "do you prefer a snaffle or a curb?" is
either about car racing or bizarre sexual practices.
* They drive a five year old "truck" which has no scratches on the bed.
* They have a big shiny 4WD rig that has never left dry pavement.
* They have ****kicker boots which have never, ever, touched _anything_
that came out of a horse.

(I'd put in a dig about always voting republican because Regan was a real
cowboy, but I'll refrain in no small part because fools come in all
political stripes).

I suppose if there were movies about heroic welders ("Return to Brokeback
Shipyard"?) you'd see people wearing pristine welding caps, boots and
shirts...

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


Boy, you hit it on the head. Only thing I'd add is that they would be
wearing creased ironed starched Levis, and similarly treated Wrangler
shirts. Plaid, pink, puce, or mauve, of course.

Steve

Real cowboys wear Wrangler jeans and whatever shirt is at hand.

Everyone else wears Levis.

Gunner, whose Wrangler clad butt, drives ladies nuts.

Gunner
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Default Bull**** by the numbers

Gunner wrote:

Gunner, whose Wrangler clad butt, drives ladies nuts.



Uh, Gunner? Ladies don't have nuts! ;-)

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Default Bull**** by the numbers


"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:00:26 -0800, SteveB wrote:

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:06:07 -0800, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:56:18 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Jim Insolo" wrote in message
...
It maybe just a cultural mis-step, with Toyota top dogs in Japan
giving the
OK to the ad smug in the knowledge that NASCAR fans are ignorant
rednecks who would fall for anything. On the other hand, the
possibility of a big crate falling into your truck is about the same
as needing 4 wheel drive going to and from Albertsons every day.

I guess some rednecks are stooping to driving Toyotas today. But the
ones I have seen are wannabe rednecks driving wannabe trucks. But
then, with the high price tag mentality, they think for some reason
the truck is better than others.

BTW, have you tried getting into the Albertson's store in Cedar City,
Utah through the snow drifts? 4wd works.

Steve

Just out of curiosity, what is a "wannabe redneck"?

(snip)

I don't know about Steve, but I'd put it down as someone who lives a
suburban life, but has some peculiar notions about the ease and joy of
living in the country so they try to imitate the external signs of a
country boy (or girl) without really having a clue of what is actually
involved. Your average country life can be quite joyous, but it's only
easy if you're filthy rich.

So, here some of the signs that I look for:

* Dressed like a cowboy going to a dance, but:
* They do it every day, to go to the office; * they wouldn't know
which end of a horse to put a halter on, much
less how to do so without injury to themselves or the horse;
* they think the question "do you prefer a snaffle or a curb?" is
either about car racing or bizarre sexual practices.
* They drive a five year old "truck" which has no scratches on the bed.
* They have a big shiny 4WD rig that has never left dry pavement. *
They have ****kicker boots which have never, ever, touched _anything_
that came out of a horse.

(I'd put in a dig about always voting republican because Regan was a
real cowboy, but I'll refrain in no small part because fools come in
all political stripes).

I suppose if there were movies about heroic welders ("Return to
Brokeback Shipyard"?) you'd see people wearing pristine welding caps,
boots and shirts...

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


Boy, you hit it on the head. Only thing I'd add is that they would be
wearing creased ironed starched Levis, and similarly treated Wrangler
shirts. Plaid, pink, puce, or mauve, of course.

Steve


At one point they were wearing mechanically aged (stone washed) Levis. I
think you're still not ineffably cool if your pants don't come from the
store ripped up.

--
Tim Wescott


AND at $80 a pair! Just trying welding with frayed
jeans...........................

Hmmmmmmmm.

I smell something burning ..................

OH, ****! IT'S ME!

slap, slap, slap, dance, dance, dance, pat, pat, pat ..................

You never see a professional welder with frayed jeans. At least not after
the first morning break. Them boys who make the good money may wear a
cowboy belt, boots, and cowboy hat until they fall apart, but their Levis
and shirts are always pretty new. Those pretty little welding hats, too.

Steve


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"SteveB" wrote in message
...


AND at $80 a pair! Just trying welding with frayed
jeans...........................

Hmmmmmmmm.

I smell something burning ..................

OH, ****! IT'S ME!

slap, slap, slap, dance, dance, dance, pat, pat, pat ..................

You never see a professional welder with frayed jeans. At least not after
the first morning break. Them boys who make the good money may wear a
cowboy belt, boots, and cowboy hat until they fall apart, but their Levis
and shirts are always pretty new. Those pretty little welding hats, too.

Steve


that's funny. that was my FIRST welding lesson in high school (1976ish)
kinda a "hippy" kid, frayed bib overalls, welding, smelling something
burning, "IT'S ME!!!" slap slap dance dance pat pat, just like you said.
never wore clothes w/ frays again while welding.

b.w.

(i saw that commercial last night. even my mother commented on it (that it
was bogus)(and she's not an engineer). i laughed out loud. told her about
this thread.)


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Default Bull**** by the numbers


"William Wixon" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
...


AND at $80 a pair! Just trying welding with frayed
jeans...........................

Hmmmmmmmm.

I smell something burning ..................

OH, ****! IT'S ME!

slap, slap, slap, dance, dance, dance, pat, pat, pat ..................

You never see a professional welder with frayed jeans. At least not
after the first morning break. Them boys who make the good money may
wear a cowboy belt, boots, and cowboy hat until they fall apart, but
their Levis and shirts are always pretty new. Those pretty little
welding hats, too.

Steve


that's funny. that was my FIRST welding lesson in high school (1976ish)
kinda a "hippy" kid, frayed bib overalls, welding, smelling something
burning, "IT'S ME!!!" slap slap dance dance pat pat, just like you said.
never wore clothes w/ frays again while welding.

b.w.

(i saw that commercial last night. even my mother commented on it (that it
was bogus)(and she's not an engineer). i laughed out loud. told her
about this thread.)


That makes me feel good. There is hope. Not everyone is just believing all
they see and hear. Now if we could just apply that to ................

oh, never mind ..........

Steve





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Default Bull**** by the numbers

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Gunner wrote:
Gunner, whose Wrangler clad butt, drives ladies nuts.



Uh, Gunner? Ladies don't have nuts! ;-)



OK, one of you two owes me a new keyboard.

technomaNge
--
Please visit http://www.anysoldier.com
and make a donation.
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Default Bull**** by the numbers

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:40:23 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Gunner, whose Wrangler clad butt, drives ladies nuts.


Uh, Gunner? Ladies don't have nuts! ;-)


Bull****. Some do. The ones that do just carry them a little
higher, and buried a little deeper.

And I got lots of proof - a whole generation used to answer to both
their given name and "Rosie the Riveter". Knew one rather personally,
and the one thing you Did Not Do (that is if you wanted to live to
tell about it) was back her into a corner...

-- Bruce --

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"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:40:23 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Gunner, whose Wrangler clad butt, drives ladies nuts.


Uh, Gunner? Ladies don't have nuts! ;-)


Bull****. Some do. The ones that do just carry them a little
higher, and buried a little deeper.

And I got lots of proof - a whole generation used to answer to both
their given name and "Rosie the Riveter". Knew one rather personally,
and the one thing you Did Not Do (that is if you wanted to live to
tell about it) was back her into a corner...



Not exactly what you would call a 'Lady".


Hell, I had a girlfreind in high school who drove her daddy's wrecker.
You COULDN'T back her into a corner. She had a tow hook, and she knew
how to use it.

OTOH, she waent on to become an LPN, and was a very nice woman. You
just didn't want to bring out her other side.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Default Bull**** by the numbers

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:40:13 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm,
technomaNge quickly quoth:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Gunner wrote:
Gunner, whose Wrangler clad butt, drives ladies nuts.



Uh, Gunner? Ladies don't have nuts! ;-)


OK, one of you two owes me a new keyboard.


Where's your Boy Scoutiness, sir? For next time:
http://www.hooleon.com/miva/graphics...tall-large.jpg
Cover that puppy with a keyboard condom!

---
Every moment is a golden one
for him who has the vision to recognize it as such.
-- Henry Miller
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technomaNge wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Gunner wrote:
Gunner, whose Wrangler clad butt, drives ladies nuts.



Uh, Gunner? Ladies don't have nuts! ;-)


OK, one of you two owes me a new keyboard.



You mean that you don't have a couple hundred spare keyboards? Or
over 100 spare computer mice?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida


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Default Bull**** by the numbers

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

You mean that you don't have a couple hundred spare keyboards? Or
over 100 spare computer mice?



Actually, I do have some spare computer parts I am not
using. If your address is valid, look for a mail
from ohb (old-hippy-*******) using bellsouth.net


technomaNge
--
Please visit http://www.anysoldier.com
and make a donation.
  #32   Report Post  
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technomaNge wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

You mean that you don't have a couple hundred spare keyboards? Or
over 100 spare computer mice?



Actually, I do have some spare computer parts I am not
using. If your address is valid, look for a mail
from ohb (old-hippy-*******) using bellsouth.net



It's good, and I've replied.


--
My sig file can beat up your sig file!
  #33   Report Post  
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Michael A. Terrell wrote:
technomaNge wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
You mean that you don't have a couple hundred spare keyboards? Or
over 100 spare computer mice?


Actually, I do have some spare computer parts I am not
using. If your address is valid, look for a mail
from ohb (old-hippy-*******) using bellsouth.net


It's good, and I've replied.


I'll box up some stuff this coming week
and let you know via email.


technomaNge
--
Please visit http://www.anysoldier.com
and make a donation.
  #34   Report Post  
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technomaNge wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
technomaNge wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
You mean that you don't have a couple hundred spare keyboards? Or
over 100 spare computer mice?


Actually, I do have some spare computer parts I am not
using. If your address is valid, look for a mail
from ohb (old-hippy-*******) using bellsouth.net


It's good, and I've replied.


I'll box up some stuff this coming week
and let you know via email.



Thanks. BTW, if you have any duplicate, or unwanted driver or
restore CDROMs, I'm trying to update my library.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:56:25 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

technomaNge wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
technomaNge wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
You mean that you don't have a couple hundred spare keyboards? Or
over 100 spare computer mice?


Actually, I do have some spare computer parts I am not
using. If your address is valid, look for a mail
from ohb (old-hippy-*******) using bellsouth.net

It's good, and I've replied.


I'll box up some stuff this coming week
and let you know via email.



Thanks. BTW, if you have any duplicate, or unwanted driver or
restore CDROMs, I'm trying to update my library.


Given Microsloths remarkable angst at people using non registered
versions of Winblows, have you considered preloading your boxes with
simple versions of Linux?

Gunner


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Gunner wrote:

Given Microsloths remarkable angst at people using non registered
versions of Winblows, have you considered preloading your boxes with
simple versions of Linux?



I have been cleaning out all personal data by hand, and replacing
damaged files. The product key on the drive matches that on the case.
The people who get these old computers have no idea what Linux is, and I
haven't been able to persuade even one of them to take a Linux computer.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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