Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old February 18th 08, 04:30 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bull**** by the numbers

SteveB wrote:
Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty box
into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst. I
know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't understand
what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real life
situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in driving.

Steve




They're doing the same kind of crap that Ford has done in some of their
ads, dropping supposedly heavy loads into the bed from various
altitudes. did you notice that the cables (two of them) were still
attached after the "load" landed? I always take anything I see in a
commercial with a BLOCK of salt! :-)

Jim

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Old February 18th 08, 04:37 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bull**** by the numbers

Hmmm, can't help with the conundrum and who cares if it is
misleading, a lot of ads are. You ever bought a hamburger that looks
like the ones in the ad?

30,000# is only 7500# per wheel and a tire would probably managed to
cope with that momentary load without bursting. Might rip some cords
but hitting a deep pot hole at speed can momentary load up a tire as
much or more than that.

I know that an object gains energy as it falls.


"Gains energy," really? I suspect you mean the energy is converted
from Potential to Kinetic! {grin}

Dave

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Old February 18th 08, 05:11 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bull**** by the numbers

Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty box
into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst. I
know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't understand
what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real life
situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in driving.

Steve


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Old February 18th 08, 05:13 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bull**** by the numbers


"Dave, I can't do that" (clip) 30,000# is only 7500# per wheel and a tire
would probably managed to
cope with that momentary load without bursting.(clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree that the ad has no realistic meaning, so this is academic.
*Placing* 30,000 lb in the truck bed and *dropping* the same weight into the
bed are not the same. If the springs and tires compress so the bed drops 1'
(say). and the weight drops from a height of 10' (say), the deceleration is
10 G's. That's equivalent to *placing* a weight of 300,000# in the truck.


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Old February 18th 08, 05:15 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bull**** by the numbers

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:11:27 -0800, SteveB wrote:

Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty
box into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst.
I know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't
understand what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real
life situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in
driving.

Steve


I think I saw that ad, but with the sound turned off. You mean you don't
live in a place where helicopters routinely drop large crates into the
backs of moving pickups? Here in Oregon City we have to keep an eye out
for that all the time. We just listen for a helicopter and start
swerving when we do (unless we drive Toyotas, in which case we know it'll
turn out OK). However, just east of here in Estacada and Molalla it
happens so often that truck owners openly display rifles in the back
windows of their trucks, as a warning to the helicopter pilots that they
may be shot down if they make the attempt.

Of course, these guys rarely try this trick if you have a canopy, a pipe
rack or even a tonneau cover, so the country-boy wannabes who move to
Estacada or Molalla for the cheap housing and proximity to hiking (at all
times of the year but hunting season, where you may encounter men with
Guns), will often have these mounted on their trucks as protection.

Did they really say "30,000 pounds of energy"? If so, they were
emphatically stating that they don't know physics, or that in their
considered opinion you don't, because a pound is not a measure of
energy. To be excruciatingly technical, a pound is a measure of force,
which makes a foot-pound a measure of energy (as well as of torque, it
depends on what you do with it). Even if you take a pound as a measure
of mass (it isn't, although engineers do use a "pound-mass" to mean
approximately 1/32 of a slug) then it's still not a measure of energy
unless you either (a) specify a velocity (squared) to multiply the mass
by, or (b) assume that they meant the energy released by directly
converting over 13000 kilograms of mass to energy, in which case the
truck, the helicopter, and possibly the entire earth would have been
blown up.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


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Old February 18th 08, 05:24 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bull**** by the numbers

SteveB wrote:

Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty box
into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst. I
know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't understand
what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real life
situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in driving.

Steve


This is what happens when you let clueless marketing dweebs read and
misinterpret technical literature and then have the ad copy run by
equally clueless lawyers.
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Old February 18th 08, 07:43 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bull**** by the numbers


"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:11:27 -0800, SteveB wrote:

Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty
box into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst.
I know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't
understand what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real
life situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in
driving.

Steve


I think I saw that ad, but with the sound turned off. You mean you don't
live in a place where helicopters routinely drop large crates into the
backs of moving pickups? Here in Oregon City we have to keep an eye out
for that all the time. We just listen for a helicopter and start
swerving when we do (unless we drive Toyotas, in which case we know it'll
turn out OK). However, just east of here in Estacada and Molalla it
happens so often that truck owners openly display rifles in the back
windows of their trucks, as a warning to the helicopter pilots that they
may be shot down if they make the attempt.

Of course, these guys rarely try this trick if you have a canopy, a pipe
rack or even a tonneau cover, so the country-boy wannabes who move to
Estacada or Molalla for the cheap housing and proximity to hiking (at all
times of the year but hunting season, where you may encounter men with
Guns), will often have these mounted on their trucks as protection.

Did they really say "30,000 pounds of energy"? If so, they were
emphatically stating that they don't know physics, or that in their
considered opinion you don't, because a pound is not a measure of
energy. To be excruciatingly technical, a pound is a measure of force,
which makes a foot-pound a measure of energy (as well as of torque, it
depends on what you do with it). Even if you take a pound as a measure
of mass (it isn't, although engineers do use a "pound-mass" to mean
approximately 1/32 of a slug) then it's still not a measure of energy
unless you either (a) specify a velocity (squared) to multiply the mass
by, or (b) assume that they meant the energy released by directly
converting over 13000 kilograms of mass to energy, in which case the
truck, the helicopter, and possibly the entire earth would have been
blown up.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


Tim,
That's exactly why I moved from Oregon City. I own a Chevy, and with all the
helicopters flying around (especially during the pre-Christmas tree harvest
season), I was at my wit's end. Simply never knowing when or where a 30,000
# mystery box would land in the back of my pickup was more than I could
bear.
Been flying lately, or has the rain got all of you guys grounded?
Paul


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Old February 18th 08, 08:07 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bull**** by the numbers

42 wrote:
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:11:27 -0800, SteveB wrote:

Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty
box into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst.
I know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't
understand what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real
life situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in
driving.

Steve

I think I saw that ad, but with the sound turned off. You mean you don't
live in a place where helicopters routinely drop large crates into the
backs of moving pickups? Here in Oregon City we have to keep an eye out
for that all the time. We just listen for a helicopter and start
swerving when we do (unless we drive Toyotas, in which case we know it'll
turn out OK). However, just east of here in Estacada and Molalla it
happens so often that truck owners openly display rifles in the back
windows of their trucks, as a warning to the helicopter pilots that they
may be shot down if they make the attempt.

Of course, these guys rarely try this trick if you have a canopy, a pipe
rack or even a tonneau cover, so the country-boy wannabes who move to
Estacada or Molalla for the cheap housing and proximity to hiking (at all
times of the year but hunting season, where you may encounter men with
Guns), will often have these mounted on their trucks as protection.

Did they really say "30,000 pounds of energy"? If so, they were
emphatically stating that they don't know physics, or that in their
considered opinion you don't, because a pound is not a measure of
energy. To be excruciatingly technical, a pound is a measure of force,
which makes a foot-pound a measure of energy (as well as of torque, it
depends on what you do with it). Even if you take a pound as a measure
of mass (it isn't, although engineers do use a "pound-mass" to mean
approximately 1/32 of a slug) then it's still not a measure of energy
unless you either (a) specify a velocity (squared) to multiply the mass
by, or (b) assume that they meant the energy released by directly
converting over 13000 kilograms of mass to energy, in which case the
truck, the helicopter, and possibly the entire earth would have been
blown up.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html


Tim,
That's exactly why I moved from Oregon City. I own a Chevy, and with all the
helicopters flying around (especially during the pre-Christmas tree harvest
season), I was at my wit's end. Simply never knowing when or where a 30,000
# mystery box would land in the back of my pickup was more than I could
bear.
Been flying lately, or has the rain got all of you guys grounded?
Paul


I've been too busy to build them faster than I can crash them, so I
mostly go out to the field on Saturdays and visit with people.

I've been considering cutting out a paper airplane shape out of Depron,
gluing a radio and motor on it, telling it that it's an airplane and
flinging it into the air. I don't even have time for _that_, though.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
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Old February 18th 08, 10:14 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bull**** by the numbers


"Jim Chandler" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
SteveB wrote:
Some of those Toyota ads during the Daytona 500 were amazing. I owned a
Toyota SR5, and it was a good truck, but just a wannabe truck.

They say the PU will take 30,000 of energy, and drop an obviously empty
box into the bed from a height, suspended from a helicopter.

Now, I know the box didn't weigh 30,000# or the tires would have burst.
I know that an object gains energy as it falls.

Can anyone estimate what the box actually weighed?

I think the ad is misleading to the 99% of the people who don't
understand what they are seeing.

Some of those other ads are very questionable to me, too. Show me real
life situations, and not something that I'll never ever run into in
driving.

Steve



They're doing the same kind of crap that Ford has done in some of their
ads, dropping supposedly heavy loads into the bed from various altitudes.
did you notice that the cables (two of them) were still attached after the
"load" landed? I always take anything I see in a commercial with a BLOCK
of salt! :-)

Jim


Never even thought of the two cables, but in order to guide it into the bed,
they would have to be somewhat taut, and that would take SOME of the load.

Steve


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Old February 18th 08, 10:15 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Bull**** by the numbers


"Dave, I can't do that" wrote in message
...
Hmmm, can't help with the conundrum and who cares if it is
misleading, a lot of ads are. You ever bought a hamburger that looks
like the ones in the ad?

30,000# is only 7500# per wheel and a tire would probably managed to
cope with that momentary load without bursting. Might rip some cords
but hitting a deep pot hole at speed can momentary load up a tire as
much or more than that.

I know that an object gains energy as it falls.


"Gains energy," really? I suspect you mean the energy is converted
from Potential to Kinetic! {grin}

Dave


Gee, Dave. I don't know. You're so smart, you tell me what I meant.

Steve




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