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Educate me about end mills
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:08:56 -0800, Frank Warner
wrote: Over the years I've collected a variety of end mills, mostly from sets, all center cutting, 2-flute and 4-flute (I understand the difference), single end and double end. Must have 2 or 3 dozen of these in different sizes, all dull. In fact, they seem to go dull incredibly fast, although they cut fine when brand new. Might be my technique, might be the mini mill (not rigid enough), might be I'm not holding my mouth right. Might also be because they are the cheapest end mills available so they can be sold in sets for $35 or so. Pay critical importance to the speed you are turning them, and how fast you are feeding them into the work. Do you actually know what the spindle speeds are? If so..try this... http://www.whitney-tool.com/html/cal...SpeedFeed.html http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-milling.htm Speed and feed calculators are of great help. Particularly for those who dont mill enough to be able to See whats going on. Most inexperienced folks tend to spin cutters way too fast and feed too slow and burn the edges of the cutters off. Blush..been there, done that..I was particularly bad about that when I first started. Got a pretty good pile of dull (and broken, burned, mangled, snapped etc etc) endmills going the first couple years, until I learned better. Gunner, who buys surplus tooling "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
Educate me about end mills
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:08:16 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote: On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:08:56 -0800, Frank Warner wrote: I'm a part-time knifemaker with a mini mill. Mostly I use it for drilling & tapping but occasionally need to ruin, er, machine a piece with its regular milling capabilities. This can involve end cutting or side cutting. Over the years I've collected a variety of end mills, mostly from sets, all center cutting, 2-flute and 4-flute (I understand the difference), single end and double end. Must have 2 or 3 dozen of these in different sizes, all dull. In fact, they seem to go dull incredibly fast, although they cut fine when brand new. Might be my technique, might be the mini mill (not rigid enough), might be I'm not holding my mouth right. Might also be because they are the cheapest end mills available so they can be sold in sets for $35 or so. So I'm looking to buy some quality end mills -- just straight, center cutting mills, in basic sizes 1/8" 3/16" 1/4" 3/8" 1/2" etc. And I want them to last a little longer than the sets I've been buying. I've got the MSC Big Book in front of me, and there's a bewildering arrays of brands, styles, materials, coatings, functions, and I presume quality. So I just don't know where to start in making a decision about which one(s) to buy. My budget is not unlimited so I can't afford to experiment with tooling that won't do the job. I am cutting mostly annealed carbon steels, stainless, damascus, titanium, German silver and lots of softer stuff for scales and embellishments. Most of this is just light cuts to straighten out an edge or make multiple identical pieces. Shallow slots. I've used the mill to cut the flats on hunting knives, taking 0.005" off at a time. Even some freehand stuff for inlays. The rest of it is probably as varied as the stuff you guys do. If any of you have any recommendations, I'd be grateful for them, and any other advice about end mills you'd care to share. -Frank Thanks for asking this question -- after looking at the links Gunner gave I now understand why I lose an end mill every time I try to cut steel. Next time I'll try for more patience. Power feeds really really help. When ya are turning your own crank G...you get bored easy and want to speed it up. Does lubrication and/or coolant help? Yes indeedy. I cheat, and use a mister. Valcool or other stuff. Ive got a 5 gallon bucket of some sort of water soluable Stuff and I mix it 25:1, and stick it in the mister. Shrug..works fine for me as long as I dont try to force my crank.......chuckle I dont know why, but a couple ounces of Dawn detergent in a gallon of water works pretty well in a mister for steel and aluminum. I ran out once and racked my lil pea brain for something with good wetting and some lubricity. Worked well enough. This is a bit overkill, but works good http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/p...m_source=froog I use old articulated mag bases to hold the nozzels where I want them. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
Educate me about end mills
I'm a part-time knifemaker with a mini mill. Mostly I use it for
drilling & tapping but occasionally need to ruin, er, machine a piece with its regular milling capabilities. This can involve end cutting or side cutting. Over the years I've collected a variety of end mills, mostly from sets, all center cutting, 2-flute and 4-flute (I understand the difference), single end and double end. Must have 2 or 3 dozen of these in different sizes, all dull. In fact, they seem to go dull incredibly fast, although they cut fine when brand new. Might be my technique, might be the mini mill (not rigid enough), might be I'm not holding my mouth right. Might also be because they are the cheapest end mills available so they can be sold in sets for $35 or so. So I'm looking to buy some quality end mills -- just straight, center cutting mills, in basic sizes 1/8" 3/16" 1/4" 3/8" 1/2" etc. And I want them to last a little longer than the sets I've been buying. I've got the MSC Big Book in front of me, and there's a bewildering arrays of brands, styles, materials, coatings, functions, and I presume quality. So I just don't know where to start in making a decision about which one(s) to buy. My budget is not unlimited so I can't afford to experiment with tooling that won't do the job. I am cutting mostly annealed carbon steels, stainless, damascus, titanium, German silver and lots of softer stuff for scales and embellishments. Most of this is just light cuts to straighten out an edge or make multiple identical pieces. Shallow slots. I've used the mill to cut the flats on hunting knives, taking 0.005" off at a time. Even some freehand stuff for inlays. The rest of it is probably as varied as the stuff you guys do. If any of you have any recommendations, I'd be grateful for them, and any other advice about end mills you'd care to share. -Frank -- Here's some of my work: http://www.franksknives.com/ |
Educate me about end mills
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Educate me about end mills
Frank Warner wrote: I'm a part-time knifemaker with a mini mill. Mostly I use it for drilling & tapping but occasionally need to ruin, er, machine a piece with its regular milling capabilities. This can involve end cutting or side cutting. Over the years I've collected a variety of end mills, mostly from sets, all center cutting, 2-flute and 4-flute (I understand the difference), single end and double end. Must have 2 or 3 dozen of these in different sizes, all dull. In fact, they seem to go dull incredibly fast, although they cut fine when brand new. Might be my technique, might be the mini mill (not rigid enough), might be I'm not holding my mouth right. Might also be because they are the cheapest end mills available so they can be sold in sets for $35 or so. I use M-42 end mills now, and haven't bought any plain HSS in years. The additional price is very little, the greater wear resistance is remarkable. For 1/8" size I use solid carbide, I can get these for $3-4 on eBay. The no-name HSS Chinese stuff is junk. Especially on stainless, don't make very shallow cuts or allow the cutter to progress too slowly across the part. Either causes work hardeneing, and the workpiece becomes harder than the tool. That's when the burnout of the cutter happens. You have to keep up an aggressive feed to prevent that. Jon |
Educate me about end mills
In article ,
Frank Warner wrote: I'm a part-time knifemaker with a mini mill. Mostly I use it for drilling & tapping but occasionally need to ruin, er, machine a piece with its regular milling capabilities. This can involve end cutting or side cutting. Over the years I've collected a variety of end mills, mostly from sets, all center cutting, 2-flute and 4-flute (I understand the difference), single end and double end. Must have 2 or 3 dozen of these in different sizes, all dull. In fact, they seem to go dull incredibly fast, although they cut fine when brand new. Might be my technique, might be the mini mill (not rigid enough), might be I'm not holding my mouth right. Might also be because they are the cheapest end mills available so they can be sold in sets for $35 or so. Are you cutting dry? It sounds so to me. Using coolant will help greatly. What I use is a Noga sprayer with Rustlick WS-5050 soluable oil: http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=5287143&PMT4NO=37949405 http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1659454&PMT4NO=37949507 Despite MSC's photo, the one gallon size comes in a reasonable container. So I'm looking to buy some quality end mills -- just straight, center cutting mills, in basic sizes 1/8" 3/16" 1/4" 3/8" 1/2" etc. And I want them to last a little longer than the sets I've been buying. I've got the MSC Big Book in front of me, and there's a bewildering arrays of brands, styles, materials, coatings, functions, and I presume quality. So I just don't know where to start in making a decision about which one(s) to buy. My budget is not unlimited so I can't afford to experiment with tooling that won't do the job. I buy used endmills locally. It's a good way to start. I am cutting mostly annealed carbon steels, stainless, damascus, titanium, German silver and lots of softer stuff for scales and embellishments. These are very different materials, and require different techniques, especially the stainless and titanium. You need to get a book on machining and read about these materials. For instance, stainless needs slow speed, high torque, heavy pressure, and lots of black sulfur oil. Joe Gwinn Most of this is just light cuts to straighten out an edge or make multiple identical pieces. Shallow slots. I've used the mill to cut the flats on hunting knives, taking 0.005" off at a time. Even some freehand stuff for inlays. The rest of it is probably as varied as the stuff you guys do. If any of you have any recommendations, I'd be grateful for them, and any other advice about end mills you'd care to share. -Frank |
Educate me about end mills
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:08:56 -0800, Frank Warner wrote:
I'm a part-time knifemaker with a mini mill. Mostly I use it for drilling & tapping but occasionally need to ruin, er, machine a piece with its regular milling capabilities. This can involve end cutting or side cutting. Over the years I've collected a variety of end mills, mostly from sets, all center cutting, 2-flute and 4-flute (I understand the difference), single end and double end. Must have 2 or 3 dozen of these in different sizes, all dull. In fact, they seem to go dull incredibly fast, although they cut fine when brand new. Might be my technique, might be the mini mill (not rigid enough), might be I'm not holding my mouth right. Might also be because they are the cheapest end mills available so they can be sold in sets for $35 or so. So I'm looking to buy some quality end mills -- just straight, center cutting mills, in basic sizes 1/8" 3/16" 1/4" 3/8" 1/2" etc. And I want them to last a little longer than the sets I've been buying. I've got the MSC Big Book in front of me, and there's a bewildering arrays of brands, styles, materials, coatings, functions, and I presume quality. So I just don't know where to start in making a decision about which one(s) to buy. My budget is not unlimited so I can't afford to experiment with tooling that won't do the job. I am cutting mostly annealed carbon steels, stainless, damascus, titanium, German silver and lots of softer stuff for scales and embellishments. Most of this is just light cuts to straighten out an edge or make multiple identical pieces. Shallow slots. I've used the mill to cut the flats on hunting knives, taking 0.005" off at a time. Even some freehand stuff for inlays. The rest of it is probably as varied as the stuff you guys do. If any of you have any recommendations, I'd be grateful for them, and any other advice about end mills you'd care to share. -Frank Thanks for asking this question -- after looking at the links Gunner gave I now understand why I lose an end mill every time I try to cut steel. Next time I'll try for more patience. Does lubrication and/or coolant help? -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consulting http://www.wescottdesign.com Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html |
Educate me about end mills
On Feb 15, 11:08 pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:08:56 -0800, Frank Warner wrote: I'm a part-time knifemaker with a mini mill. Mostly I use it for drilling & tapping but occasionally need to ruin, er, machine a piece with its regular milling capabilities. This can involve end cutting or side cutting. Over the years I've collected a variety of end mills, mostly from sets, all center cutting, 2-flute and 4-flute (I understand the difference), single end and double end. Must have 2 or 3 dozen of these in different sizes, all dull. In fact, they seem to go dull incredibly fast, although they cut fine when brand new. Might be my technique, might be the mini mill (not rigid enough), might be I'm not holding my mouth right. Might also be because they are the cheapest end mills available so they can be sold in sets for $35 or so. So I'm looking to buy some quality end mills -- just straight, center cutting mills, in basic sizes 1/8" 3/16" 1/4" 3/8" 1/2" etc. And I want them to last a little longer than the sets I've been buying. I've got the MSC Big Book in front of me, and there's a bewildering arrays of brands, styles, materials, coatings, functions, and I presume quality. So I just don't know where to start in making a decision about which one(s) to buy. My budget is not unlimited so I can't afford to experiment with tooling that won't do the job. I am cutting mostly annealed carbon steels, stainless, damascus, titanium, German silver and lots of softer stuff for scales and embellishments. Most of this is just light cuts to straighten out an edge or make multiple identical pieces. Shallow slots. I've used the mill to cut the flats on hunting knives, taking 0.005" off at a time. Even some freehand stuff for inlays. The rest of it is probably as varied as the stuff you guys do. If any of you have any recommendations, I'd be grateful for them, and any other advice about end mills you'd care to share. -Frank Thanks for asking this question -- after looking at the links Gunner gave I now understand why I lose an end mill every time I try to cut steel. Next time I'll try for more patience. Does lubrication and/or coolant help? -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consultinghttp://www.wescottdesign.com Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott Elsevier/Newnes,http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html Coolant definitely improves machining results, and the cutting tools will last longer. I use COOLTOOL II almost exclusively for milling and turning by hand brushing or squirting, simply to keep the mess manageable and peace at the home front as my work shop is in the basement. This stuff is good also for single point threading in the lathe. For tapping I use some 40 year old CIMCOOL "strawberry jam" (still available). Both are innocuous and do not smell or cause rust. I paid about $50 for one gallon of COOLTOOL II 5 years ago; the CIMCOOL I got for free way back when but when I priced it recently it was listed for $175 per pint! It is good stuff. I use both lubricants for everything, all steels, stainless, carbon and tool, aluminum, titanium, brass, bronze including aluminum bronze, plus any mystery metal I run across. I am not saying that it is the be-all and end-all for production machining, but for all around workshop use, and for some pretty complex parts, it is satisfactory for my purposes. The CIMCOOL was indeed used in production tapping of aluminum, cast iron, and steel. Wolfgang |
Educate me about end mills
On Feb 15, 11:08*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
... Thanks for asking this question -- after looking at the links Gunner gave I now understand why I lose an end mill every time I try to cut steel. Next time I'll try for more patience. Does lubrication and/or coolant help? Tim Wescott I made up a spreadsheet chart of cutting speeds for my mill with the 6 belt settings and spindle speeds for rows and common tool diameters for columns. When the usual 600 RPM isn't appropriate it's easy to look up the nearest speed and find its belt setting. Motor Head RPM .125 .250 .500 ... Low Lg 600 20 39 79 Low Med 350 11 23 46 600 RPM gives ~80 FPM on a 1/2" end mill, which has worked well for me on all but hardened steel where I'd use carbide anyway. Name-brand USA HSS end mills stay sharp a long time with a little cutting oil brushed on whenever the smoke disappears. The cheap blue- tube ones seem to require much lower speed or they dull very quickly in steel, so I save them for aluminum. Jim Wilkins |
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