On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:49:44 -0500, "Al A."
wrote:

Hi all,
Here is the application:
The steel backstop at our local shooting club's indoor range is an
"elevator" style trap. Over the years the areas right behind where the
targets hang seem "erode". The theory is that the metal work hardens
from the repeated impacts and then bits of metal start to chip out,
causing roughness and pits that then interferes the proper operation of
the trap. This happens over the course of years, and in the past, we
have ground out the rough spots and welded over the area, followed by
grinding the welds flat and smooth again. Works great.

We now need to do a few areas again, and the question has come up as
to what type of rod to use. I'm not sure what was used last time, the
guy who did it is no around to ask. I'm pretty sure it was something
garden variety like 6011 or something similar, but some have suggested
using a "hardfacing" type rod for greater longevity. (the guy who
suggested that faces a lot of 'dozer blades and the like) What do some
of the experts here suggest? Any ideas?

Other info:
-Backstop plates are a bit less than 3/4" thick, were once part of a
backstop in an old National Guard barricks. No idea of the precise
composition.
-"Pits" in the plates are mostly 1/16" or less deep.
-Used for lead handgun shooting only and .22 rifle. No jacketed stuff, etc.
-We have access to fairly serious welder and an experienced man to use it.

-just looking for some informed opinions, so that we can try to make an
(at least slightly) educated decision.

Thanks!
-AL

Hardfacing wire, if possible.

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:37:05 -0800, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:

In article ,
"Al A." wrote:

Hi all,
Here is the application:
The steel backstop at our local shooting club's indoor range is an
"elevator" style trap. Over the years the areas right behind where the
targets hang seem "erode". The theory is that the metal work hardens
from the repeated impacts and then bits of metal start to chip out,
causing roughness and pits that then interferes the proper operation of
the trap. This happens over the course of years, and in the past, we
have ground out the rough spots and welded over the area, followed by
grinding the welds flat and smooth again. Works great.

We now need to do a few areas again, and the question has come up as
to what type of rod to use. I'm not sure what was used last time, the
guy who did it is no around to ask. I'm pretty sure it was something
garden variety like 6011 or something similar, but some have suggested
using a "hardfacing" type rod for greater longevity. (the guy who
suggested that faces a lot of 'dozer blades and the like) What do some
of the experts here suggest? Any ideas?

Other info:
-Backstop plates are a bit less than 3/4" thick, were once part of a
backstop in an old National Guard barricks. No idea of the precise
composition.
-"Pits" in the plates are mostly 1/16" or less deep.
-Used for lead handgun shooting only and .22 rifle. No jacketed stuff, etc.
-We have access to fairly serious welder and an experienced man to use it.

-just looking for some informed opinions, so that we can try to make an
(at least slightly) educated decision.

Thanks!
-AL

I would not go as far as hardfacing rod, because it might spall off the
base metal under impact, but I would go for a slightly stronger rod than
normal.
8018 or 9018 would be a bit stronger than standard rod.


They wont spall with handgun or 22 bullets. Been there, done that.
Used hardfacing wire in a mig.

Never had to do it again.

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Hi all,
Here is the application:
The steel backstop at our local shooting club's indoor range is an
"elevator" style trap. Over the years the areas right behind where the
targets hang seem "erode". The theory is that the metal work hardens
from the repeated impacts and then bits of metal start to chip out,
causing roughness and pits that then interferes the proper operation of
the trap. This happens over the course of years, and in the past, we
have ground out the rough spots and welded over the area, followed by
grinding the welds flat and smooth again. Works great.

We now need to do a few areas again, and the question has come up as
to what type of rod to use. I'm not sure what was used last time, the
guy who did it is no around to ask. I'm pretty sure it was something
garden variety like 6011 or something similar, but some have suggested
using a "hardfacing" type rod for greater longevity. (the guy who
suggested that faces a lot of 'dozer blades and the like) What do some
of the experts here suggest? Any ideas?

Other info:
-Backstop plates are a bit less than 3/4" thick, were once part of a
backstop in an old National Guard barricks. No idea of the precise
composition.
-"Pits" in the plates are mostly 1/16" or less deep.
-Used for lead handgun shooting only and .22 rifle. No jacketed stuff, etc.
-We have access to fairly serious welder and an experienced man to use it.

-just looking for some informed opinions, so that we can try to make an
(at least slightly) educated decision.

Thanks!
-AL

While at first glance, hardfacing seems like a good idea, it might be worth
considering that the plate needs a bit of resilience, as the bullets
impacting it expend an awful lot of inertia in a small spot, and some "give"
or flex might be in order, too. This might depend on exactly the composition
of the substrate.

I've never shot at this type of backstop. All the ones I've had experience
with (that were NOT 1" armor plate) had smaller plates attached, in a manner
that they gave slightly and absorbed the impact, and then deflected the
bullet to the main plate, which, in turn, deflected it into the sand-trap.

Flash





"Al A." wrote in message
. ..
Hi all,
Here is the application:
The steel backstop at our local shooting club's indoor range is an
"elevator" style trap. Over the years the areas right behind where the
targets hang seem "erode". The theory is that the metal work hardens from
the repeated impacts and then bits of metal start to chip out, causing
roughness and pits that then interferes the proper operation of the trap.
This happens over the course of years, and in the past, we have ground out
the rough spots and welded over the area, followed by grinding the welds
flat and smooth again. Works great.

We now need to do a few areas again, and the question has come up as to
what type of rod to use. I'm not sure what was used last time, the guy who
did it is no around to ask. I'm pretty sure it was something garden
variety like 6011 or something similar, but some have suggested using a
"hardfacing" type rod for greater longevity. (the guy who suggested that
faces a lot of 'dozer blades and the like) What do some of the experts
here suggest? Any ideas?

Other info:
-Backstop plates are a bit less than 3/4" thick, were once part of a
backstop in an old National Guard barricks. No idea of the precise
composition.
-"Pits" in the plates are mostly 1/16" or less deep.
-Used for lead handgun shooting only and .22 rifle. No jacketed stuff,
etc.
-We have access to fairly serious welder and an experienced man to use it.

-just looking for some informed opinions, so that we can try to make an
(at least slightly) educated decision.

Thanks!
-AL

What is an "Elevator style" trap?

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 08:50:49 -0700, Lew Hartswick
wrote:

Al A. wrote:
The trap in question is a copy of one marketed by Caswell about 25
years ago. I'm not sure if they still sell one like it.

-AL

I think the Caswell trap design I saw back about then (I was working
on a target scoring device at that time) used a vertical cylindrical
section for the energy disapating. This was for an individual firing
position
Anyone in this thread ever hear of "Accubar" ?
...lew...


Wernt they the "rams horn" bullet traps"?

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

In article ,
"Al A." wrote:

Hi all,
Here is the application:
The steel backstop at our local shooting club's indoor range is an
"elevator" style trap. Over the years the areas right behind where the
targets hang seem "erode". The theory is that the metal work hardens
from the repeated impacts and then bits of metal start to chip out,
causing roughness and pits that then interferes the proper operation of
the trap. This happens over the course of years, and in the past, we
have ground out the rough spots and welded over the area, followed by
grinding the welds flat and smooth again. Works great.

We now need to do a few areas again, and the question has come up as
to what type of rod to use. I'm not sure what was used last time, the
guy who did it is no around to ask. I'm pretty sure it was something
garden variety like 6011 or something similar, but some have suggested
using a "hardfacing" type rod for greater longevity. (the guy who
suggested that faces a lot of 'dozer blades and the like) What do some
of the experts here suggest? Any ideas?

Other info:
-Backstop plates are a bit less than 3/4" thick, were once part of a
backstop in an old National Guard barricks. No idea of the precise
composition.
-"Pits" in the plates are mostly 1/16" or less deep.
-Used for lead handgun shooting only and .22 rifle. No jacketed stuff, etc.
-We have access to fairly serious welder and an experienced man to use it.

-just looking for some informed opinions, so that we can try to make an
(at least slightly) educated decision.

Thanks!
-AL

I would not go as far as hardfacing rod, because it might spall off the
base metal under impact, but I would go for a slightly stronger rod than
normal.
8018 or 9018 would be a bit stronger than standard rod.

There is 11018 welding rod, which is for welding armor plate. I would
try that.

i

I use 10018 on targets. It can be tough as if there is a lot of metal,
pre-heating might be needed. But 90 or 100 18 is great.

Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:37:05 -0800, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:

In article ,
"Al A." wrote:

Hi all,
Here is the application:
The steel backstop at our local shooting club's indoor range is an
"elevator" style trap. Over the years the areas right behind where the
targets hang seem "erode". The theory is that the metal work hardens
from the repeated impacts and then bits of metal start to chip out,
causing roughness and pits that then interferes the proper operation of
the trap. This happens over the course of years, and in the past, we
have ground out the rough spots and welded over the area, followed by
grinding the welds flat and smooth again. Works great.

We now need to do a few areas again, and the question has come up as
to what type of rod to use. I'm not sure what was used last time, the
guy who did it is no around to ask. I'm pretty sure it was something
garden variety like 6011 or something similar, but some have suggested
using a "hardfacing" type rod for greater longevity. (the guy who
suggested that faces a lot of 'dozer blades and the like) What do some
of the experts here suggest? Any ideas?

Other info:
-Backstop plates are a bit less than 3/4" thick, were once part of a
backstop in an old National Guard barricks. No idea of the precise
composition.
-"Pits" in the plates are mostly 1/16" or less deep.
-Used for lead handgun shooting only and .22 rifle. No jacketed stuff, etc.
-We have access to fairly serious welder and an experienced man to use it.

-just looking for some informed opinions, so that we can try to make an
(at least slightly) educated decision.

Thanks!
-AL
I would not go as far as hardfacing rod, because it might spall off the
base metal under impact, but I would go for a slightly stronger rod than
normal.
8018 or 9018 would be a bit stronger than standard rod.


They wont spall with handgun or 22 bullets. Been there, done that.
Used hardfacing wire in a mig.

Never had to do it again.

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Dan wrote:
What is an "Elevator style" trap?


Dan,
Sorry for the delay in my reply. To answer your question:
On the most common style trap, I'm sure you know, the backstop plates
are at a 45 degree angle to the ground, with the "floor end" of the
plates furthest from the firing point. That way the bullets are
deflected towards the floor, and are generally stopped in a sand bed or
something similar.


An Elevator style trap is one in which the plates that form the backstop
are angled the opposite way, the end that rests on the floor is closest
to firing line. The plates are not quite at a 45 degree angle and are
not quite flat. The plate has a slight but definite bow to it. The way
it works is that when a bullet hits the plate, the bullet deforms and
essentially skids up the face of the plate. at the top end of the plate
is a funnel-like opening that guides the bullet into a round chamber (it
is a pipe, actually), where it zips around over 270 degrees, and hits a
fixed stopping plate. The round chamber helps to expend some of the
bullets energy, and also contains the now-splattered lead. Subsequent
shots will knock the lead fragments out of the pipe, where they slide
down the face of the plate and are caught by a small trough at the
floor. Works great, and there is no sifting through nasty dirty sand to
recover the lead.

The trap in question is a copy of one marketed by Caswell about 25
years ago. I'm not sure if they still sell one like it.

-AL

Al A. wrote:
The trap in question is a copy of one marketed by Caswell about 25
years ago. I'm not sure if they still sell one like it.

-AL

I think the Caswell trap design I saw back about then (I was working
on a target scoring device at that time) used a vertical cylindrical
section for the energy disapating. This was for an individual firing
position
Anyone in this thread ever hear of "Accubar" ?
...lew...