Your vacation

Your vacation in Croatia.

Please visit us on http://www.adriaticmedia.crogoo.net

Search your Croatian destination and travel.

If you know something interesting about Croatia, write & share with
us.

eterica wrote:
Your vacation

Your vacation in Croatia.

Please visit us on http://www.adriaticmedia.crogoo.net

Search your Croatian destination and travel.

If you know something interesting about Croatia, write & share with
us.

Get up to date maps of the land mined areas.

Never walk off the pavement or road surface.

Wait for another 150 years or so, and you can ignore this advice,
mostly. By then, most of the mines should be no longer functional.

Beautiful country. Shame about the land mines.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:41:05 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

eterica wrote:
Your vacation

Your vacation in Croatia.

Please visit us on http://www.adriaticmedia.crogoo.net

Search your Croatian destination and travel.

If you know something interesting about Croatia, write & share with
us.

Get up to date maps of the land mined areas.

Never walk off the pavement or road surface.

Wait for another 150 years or so, and you can ignore this advice,
mostly. By then, most of the mines should be no longer functional.

Beautiful country. Shame about the land mines.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Just step from one mass grave to another and you wont have to worry
about mines.

Guinner

Trevor Jones wrote:

Get up to date maps of the land mined areas.

Never walk off the pavement or road surface.

Wait for another 150 years or so, and you can ignore this advice,
mostly. By then, most of the mines should be no longer functional.

Beautiful country. Shame about the land mines.


I think Vietnam will be a tourist destination first. The mines and dud
ordinance are older.

Wes

Wes wrote:

Trevor Jones wrote:


Get up to date maps of the land mined areas.

Never walk off the pavement or road surface.

Wait for another 150 years or so, and you can ignore this advice,
mostly. By then, most of the mines should be no longer functional.

Beautiful country. Shame about the land mines.



I think Vietnam will be a tourist destination first. The mines and dud
ordinance are older.

Wes

They are older technology, too, with a shorter lifespan.

A lot of the mines used in the Balkans were very compact, plastic
bodied, and well sealed against ingress of moisture.

Sadly, they will stay working, for a very long time.

The nasty ones wer two sizes of AP mines, that were about the size of
a boot polish tin, both the large and small sizes. Those are the PMA2,
and PMA3 mines.During the festivities there, a lot of them were used to
install perimeter security around camps or trench emplacements, and left
when the occupants departed.
http://www.nolandmines.com/minesPMA3.htm
http://www.nolandmines.com/minesPMA2.htm
http://www.nolandmines.com/minesPROM.htm

Nasty ****.

http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/land...in_the_balkans

The anti tank mines were usually considered high value items, and were
picked up and reused, if the guy that installed them was able, but there
are a pile of them left out there too.

Nothing quite like seeing pictures of anti-tank mines set in trees as
booby traps against helicopters landing in an area...or a flock of sheep
that got taken out by a bounding AP mine, in a field that they had been
using for the previous several years...

It's gonna be a long time, before the woods are safe to walk in over
there.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Trevor Jones wrote:

I think Vietnam will be a tourist destination first. The mines and dud
ordinance are older.

Wes

They are older technology, too, with a shorter lifespan.

That is good for those that still inhabit the area.


A lot of the mines used in the Balkans were very compact, plastic
bodied, and well sealed against ingress of moisture.

Sadly, they will stay working, for a very long time.

The nasty ones wer two sizes of AP mines, that were about the size of
a boot polish tin, both the large and small sizes. Those are the PMA2,
and PMA3 mines.During the festivities there, a lot of them were used to
install perimeter security around camps or trench emplacements, and left
when the occupants departed.
http://www.nolandmines.com/minesPMA3.htm
http://www.nolandmines.com/minesPMA2.htm
http://www.nolandmines.com/minesPROM.htm

Nasty ****.

There are places where mines are appropiate like the Korean DMZ. And I
understand why they are usefull for perimeter defense. We have the
technology though to create a mine with a shelf life since most wars are not
forever. At some point a war should end and with mines the date is never
certain.


http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/land...in_the_balkans

Couldn't get that link to load.

The anti tank mines were usually considered high value items, and were
picked up and reused, if the guy that installed them was able, but there
are a pile of them left out there too.

Nothing quite like seeing pictures of anti-tank mines set in trees as
booby traps against helicopters landing in an area...or a flock of sheep
that got taken out by a bounding AP mine, in a field that they had been
using for the previous several years...

It's gonna be a long time, before the woods are safe to walk in over
there.

I'm assuming you were part of Canadian forces serving during that war, er
peace keeping effort. If so, thank you for your service.

Wes

Wes wrote:
Trevor Jones wrote:


I think Vietnam will be a tourist destination first. The mines and dud
ordinance are older.

Wes

They are older technology, too, with a shorter lifespan.


That is good for those that still inhabit the area.


A lot of the mines used in the Balkans were very compact, plastic
bodied, and well sealed against ingress of moisture.

Sadly, they will stay working, for a very long time.

The nasty ones wer two sizes of AP mines, that were about the size of
a boot polish tin, both the large and small sizes. Those are the PMA2,
and PMA3 mines.During the festivities there, a lot of them were used to
install perimeter security around camps or trench emplacements, and left
when the occupants departed.
http://www.nolandmines.com/minesPMA3.htm
http://www.nolandmines.com/minesPMA2.htm
http://www.nolandmines.com/minesPROM.htm

Nasty ****.


There are places where mines are appropiate like the Korean DMZ. And I
understand why they are usefull for perimeter defense. We have the
technology though to create a mine with a shelf life since most wars are not
forever. At some point a war should end and with mines the date is never
certain.
Once an area has been mined, it is difficult to say with any certainty
that all the mines have been removed.

Most militaries have procedures and processes in place, regarding how
a mine field would be deployed, how it would be mapped, and records are
kept, so that there is a decent liklyhood that the minefield can be removed.

The Balkans were really screwed up. Aside from guys using mines to
**** over their neighbors, like the sheep incident I mentioned, was
reputed to be, there were guys with anti tank mines that would mine a
stretch of road, and charge a fee for safe passage. Some of those were
shot by people that did not wish to play that silly game, leaving a mine
or many, unmapped and unaccounted for.
There were instances reported where guys had infiltrated mine fields
laid by the other side, and planted their own mines in the mix. Once the
guy that knew the safe route through hit one, everyone was pretty much
screwed.
There were areas that were seeded with AP mines, by helicopter. Open
crate, kick crate out door, repeat.

Too many factions. Too many uncontrolled little groups. Too many
people hating each other over **** that went down in the 1300's.

Beautiful countryside. Empty. Between the exodus from the country, the
migration of the remaining people to the cities, and the mines, that
were seeded through the area indiscriminately by both sides, the
countryside is going to stay empty for a long time, too.


http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/land...in_the_balkans

Would not load for me either, nor when I searched it out. Server
issues at their end.

Pretty much the same graphic here
http://www.envsec.org/see/maps/landmines.jpg




Couldn't get that link to load.

The anti tank mines were usually considered high value items, and were
picked up and reused, if the guy that installed them was able, but there
are a pile of them left out there too.

Nothing quite like seeing pictures of anti-tank mines set in trees as
booby traps against helicopters landing in an area...or a flock of sheep
that got taken out by a bounding AP mine, in a field that they had been
using for the previous several years...

It's gonna be a long time, before the woods are safe to walk in over
there.


I'm assuming you were part of Canadian forces serving during that war, er
peace keeping effort. If so, thank you for your service.

Doin' what I hired on to do. You are welcome. And thank you, for
saying so.

I was over there at the end of the gameshow, after all the shooting
had stopped and the cleansing efforts by both sides were pretty much
settled out. I was there fixing helicopters, in the Northeast corner of
Bosnia, in a Camp near Velika Kadusa, or VK.
You can see our copters on the ground on Google Earth! That picture
was taken a couple years before I was there.
45°10'05" N, 15°48'55.67"E was where I worked.

It was a pretty good go. Sorta Club Med, with razor wire and no pool.
Barely enough fortifications around our camp to keep us in.
Sadly, it was the best working conditions I had, in a 4 year long
stint with the unit I was in at the time.
We did a lot of training in the lead-up to the deployment. Mine
Awareness featured VERY large in the training.
So did a review of the unsanitised version of the local politics and
history. Nobody that was involved in the BS that went on over there was
any more innocent than the others. How it looked, depended entirely on
who was watching at the time.
Pretty screwed up place.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

"Trevor Jones" wrote in message
news:%nNqj.10279$w57.10066@edtnps90...
Wes wrote:

I'm assuming you were part of Canadian forces serving during that war, er
peace keeping effort. If so, thank you for your service.

Doin' what I hired on to do. You are welcome. And thank you, for saying
so.

And let me second that. Bosnia was a screw-up that should never have been.
The fact that you and others had to risk your lives to put a lid on it is
unfortanate, but a credit to those who did it.

--
Ed Huntress

In 72 i went from Prague south to Yugoslavia, then down along the coast,
aroung Albania, to Greece. There had been a major earthquake a year or so
earlier, and it all seemed like Mexico. Now with all the kidnapping and
holdups in Baja, it must still be similar
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:33:09
-0800 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:41:05 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

eterica wrote:
Your vacation

Your vacation in Croatia.

Please visit us on http://www.adriaticmedia.crogoo.net

Search your Croatian destination and travel.

If you know something interesting about Croatia, write & share with
us.

Get up to date maps of the land mined areas.

Never walk off the pavement or road surface.

Wait for another 150 years or so, and you can ignore this advice,
mostly. By then, most of the mines should be no longer functional.

Beautiful country. Shame about the land mines.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Just step from one mass grave to another and you wont have to worry
about mines.

You can go off the paved surfaces. Just don't go first, and step
only in the tire tracks, or your guides foot prints.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:25:04 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:33:09
-0800 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:41:05 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

eterica wrote:
Your vacation

Your vacation in Croatia.

Please visit us on http://www.adriaticmedia.crogoo.net

Search your Croatian destination and travel.

If you know something interesting about Croatia, write & share with
us.

Get up to date maps of the land mined areas.

Never walk off the pavement or road surface.

Wait for another 150 years or so, and you can ignore this advice,
mostly. By then, most of the mines should be no longer functional.

Beautiful country. Shame about the land mines.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Just step from one mass grave to another and you wont have to worry
about mines.

You can go off the paved surfaces. Just don't go first, and step
only in the tire tracks, or your guides foot prints.

tschus
pyotr


What if he has a size 9, and Ive a size 13?

Gunner

On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 00:16:22 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:25:04 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:



You can go off the paved surfaces. Just don't go first, and step
only in the tire tracks, or your guides foot prints.

tschus
pyotr


What if he has a size 9, and Ive a size 13?

Gunner

Instant pedicure?


Mark Rand
RTFM

On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 00:16:22 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner quickly quoth:

--much snippage--
Just step from one mass grave to another and you wont have to worry
about mines.

You can go off the paved surfaces. Just don't go first, and step
only in the tire tracks, or your guides foot prints.

What if he has a size 9, and Ive a size 13?

You's in a heap o' trouble, boy.

--
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do.
-- Confucius

On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 10:43:46 +0000, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 00:16:22 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:25:04 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:



You can go off the paved surfaces. Just don't go first, and step
only in the tire tracks, or your guides foot prints.

tschus
pyotr


What if he has a size 9, and Ive a size 13?

Gunner

Instant pedicure?

Indeed.


Mark Rand
RTFM

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Sat, 09 Feb 2008 00:16:22
-0800 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:25:04 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Gunner
wrote on Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:33:09
-0800 in rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 23:41:05 GMT, Trevor Jones
wrote:

eterica wrote:
Your vacation

Your vacation in Croatia.

Please visit us on http://www.adriaticmedia.crogoo.net

Search your Croatian destination and travel.

If you know something interesting about Croatia, write & share with
us.

Get up to date maps of the land mined areas.

Never walk off the pavement or road surface.

Wait for another 150 years or so, and you can ignore this advice,
mostly. By then, most of the mines should be no longer functional.

Beautiful country. Shame about the land mines.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

Just step from one mass grave to another and you wont have to worry
about mines.

You can go off the paved surfaces. Just don't go first, and step
only in the tire tracks, or your guides foot prints.

tschus
pyotr


What if he has a size 9, and Ive a size 13?

Stilts?

I know the Japanese make a sandal with "risers", which are
intended for wearing in snow. Those might work. I'm not sure you
could get them in size 13 American. (Hmmm .... do Japanese clowns
wear oversized tabi...?)


My other advice would be to have your second guide step next to
the first footprint.

Wear snowshoes. Or strap a couple kumbaya types on your feet, and
sort of shuffle along. Better yet, tell them that there is an
endangered species up the trail being threatened by the Pentagon, and
follow along after the stampede.


tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Mark Rand
wrote on Sat, 09 Feb 2008 10:43:46 +0000 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 00:16:22 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:25:04 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:



You can go off the paved surfaces. Just don't go first, and step
only in the tire tracks, or your guides foot prints.

tschus
pyotr


What if he has a size 9, and Ive a size 13?

Gunner

Instant pedicure?

But hard on the hearing. And worse, you get toe jam everywhere!

We'll have to come up with an alternate solution.


pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries