RCM Challenge
I figure there is enough expertise in this group to successfully tackle
this challenge... Now all it takes is money! http://blogs.abcnews.com/scienceands...2/moon-20.html The latest version of the X Prize is backed by Google: $20 million to the first private enterprise that can land a robotic rover on the lunar surface, send back images and data, and travel at least 500 meters--with more rewards if it can find artifacts from the early days of lunar exploration, when only the U.S. and Soviet governments could afford to send probes. The Apollo landings and the probes that preceded them were, to the X Prize managers, "Moon 1.0"--done by Cold War powers in an expensive rush, with no long-term plan to stay and mine the moon for whatever it had to offer. Now comes Moon 2.0. "The Google Lunar X PRIZE is an unprecedented international competition that will challenge and inspire engineers and entrepreneurs from around the world to develop low-cost methods of robotic space exploration." say the backers. They now have their first applicant: an operation called Odyssey Moon, founded by Robert Richards, an entrepreneur who's also founded the International Space University in France. |
RCM Challenge
I think you have a great idea. There are a lot of very talented people who
read this newsgroup, each with varying resources and tooling. Perhaps this fellow Robert Richards would wish to place item drawings on a web site for hobbiests to make. Sort of like an outsourcing thing to defray his expenses. I think organizing and managing this would be a significant challenge, but I think it could be done. Consider the value and power a worldwide fabrication and problem solving facility and at your fingertips. This has to be attractive. Steve "cavelamb himself" wrote in message ... I figure there is enough expertise in this group to successfully tackle this challenge... Now all it takes is money! http://blogs.abcnews.com/scienceands...2/moon-20.html The latest version of the X Prize is backed by Google: $20 million to the first private enterprise that can land a robotic rover on the lunar surface, send back images and data, and travel at least 500 meters--with more rewards if it can find artifacts from the early days of lunar exploration, when only the U.S. and Soviet governments could afford to send probes. The Apollo landings and the probes that preceded them were, to the X Prize managers, "Moon 1.0"--done by Cold War powers in an expensive rush, with no long-term plan to stay and mine the moon for whatever it had to offer. Now comes Moon 2.0. "The Google Lunar X PRIZE is an unprecedented international competition that will challenge and inspire engineers and entrepreneurs from around the world to develop low-cost methods of robotic space exploration." say the backers. They now have their first applicant: an operation called Odyssey Moon, founded by Robert Richards, an entrepreneur who's also founded the International Space University in France. |
RCM Challenge
I think it a "roll yer own" type thing.
Steve Lusardi wrote: I think you have a great idea. There are a lot of very talented people who read this newsgroup, each with varying resources and tooling. Perhaps this fellow Robert Richards would wish to place item drawings on a web site for hobbiests to make. Sort of like an outsourcing thing to defray his expenses. I think organizing and managing this would be a significant challenge, but I think it could be done. Consider the value and power a worldwide fabrication and problem solving facility and at your fingertips. This has to be attractive. Steve "cavelamb himself" wrote in message ... I figure there is enough expertise in this group to successfully tackle this challenge... Now all it takes is money! http://blogs.abcnews.com/scienceands...2/moon-20.html The latest version of the X Prize is backed by Google: $20 million to the first private enterprise that can land a robotic rover on the lunar surface, send back images and data, and travel at least 500 meters--with more rewards if it can find artifacts from the early days of lunar exploration, when only the U.S. and Soviet governments could afford to send probes. The Apollo landings and the probes that preceded them were, to the X Prize managers, "Moon 1.0"--done by Cold War powers in an expensive rush, with no long-term plan to stay and mine the moon for whatever it had to offer. Now comes Moon 2.0. "The Google Lunar X PRIZE is an unprecedented international competition that will challenge and inspire engineers and entrepreneurs from around the world to develop low-cost methods of robotic space exploration." say the backers. They now have their first applicant: an operation called Odyssey Moon, founded by Robert Richards, an entrepreneur who's also founded the International Space University in France. |
RCM Challenge
On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 21:29:26 -0600, cavelamb himself
wrote: I figure there is enough expertise in this group to successfully tackle this challenge... Now all it takes is money! http://blogs.abcnews.com/scienceands...2/moon-20.html The latest version of the X Prize is backed by Google: $20 million to the first private enterprise that can land a robotic rover on the lunar surface, send back images and data, and travel at least 500 meters--with more rewards if it can find artifacts from the early days of lunar exploration, when only the U.S. and Soviet governments could afford to send probes. The Apollo landings and the probes that preceded them were, to the X Prize managers, "Moon 1.0"--done by Cold War powers in an expensive rush, with no long-term plan to stay and mine the moon for whatever it had to offer. Now comes Moon 2.0. "The Google Lunar X PRIZE is an unprecedented international competition that will challenge and inspire engineers and entrepreneurs from around the world to develop low-cost methods of robotic space exploration." say the backers. They now have their first applicant: an operation called Odyssey Moon, founded by Robert Richards, an entrepreneur who's also founded the International Space University in France. in my local environment it is only I who thinks this a damn interesting challenge. I've nutted out some of the technicalities just in the idle moments today. navigation to the moon is a piece of cake. launch just before midnight on a moonlit night and have the robot navigator stay focussed on the large polarised dot of light in the sky and head for it. gods I'd get a legit excuse to experiment with godard rockets! payload could be the size of a radio controlled model car. launch a whole bundle of them for redundancy. how do you prove you got there? find and cut down the american flag and replace it with an australian one :-) that'd be sure to see a moon mission just to put back a bigger american one :-) damn what an interesting challenge! Stealth Pilot |
RCM Challenge
In article ,
Stealth Pilot wrote: navigation to the moon is a piece of cake. launch just before midnight on a moonlit night and have the robot navigator stay focussed on the large polarised dot of light in the sky and head for it. Won't work; you cannot go directly to the moon, you have to go around the earth because of gravity and the earth's rotation. In any case, it will take several days to get there ;) Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
RCM Challenge
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:56:32 -0600, nick hull wrote:
In article , Stealth Pilot wrote: navigation to the moon is a piece of cake. launch just before midnight on a moonlit night and have the robot navigator stay focussed on the large polarised dot of light in the sky and head for it. Won't work; you cannot go directly to the moon, you have to go around the earth because of gravity and the earth's rotation. In any case, it will take several days to get there ;) Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ can you tell me why a vehicle making a steady 100knots cant get to the moon? oil tankers traverse the world at 12 knots. ok the full plot is ...launch on a moon lit night. get a stable ascent, lock in the inputs from the stabilising gyros as setpoints. proceed in a straight line. when the clock indicates that the moon is almost in position each day scan the forward sky for the moon. compute the course correction, adjust, lock in the gyro inputs as setpoints. proceed in a straight line. uniform motion in a straight line requires no thrust. you merely need thrust to adjust for gravity. toward the moon adjust course to chase the trajectory with a view to getting almost to lunar speed. since the moon isnt spinning it shouldnt be too hard to arrange an intercept sorta like driving in a parallel lane to another car on the freeway. actually, rather than having a smart arsed tilt at you I'd appreciate some comments on what would be actually be needed. Stealth Pilot free men live in societies where guns arent needed. |
RCM Challenge
Just leave a pile of Fosters cans. That would do it. A bunch of whiny
eco-freaks will demand that the US sends a mission up to return the moon to it's pristine state. Nevermind the cost... Stealth Pilot wrote: how do you prove you got there? find and cut down the american flag and replace it with an australian one :-) |
RCM Challenge
"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message ... On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:56:32 -0600, nick hull wrote: In article , Stealth Pilot wrote: navigation to the moon is a piece of cake. launch just before midnight on a moonlit night and have the robot navigator stay focussed on the large polarised dot of light in the sky and head for it. Won't work; you cannot go directly to the moon, you have to go around the earth because of gravity and the earth's rotation. In any case, it will take several days to get there ;) Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ can you tell me why a vehicle making a steady 100knots cant get to the moon? oil tankers traverse the world at 12 knots. That's a good question and one worth the time it takes to understand it. Look up "escape velocity" and you'll see the equations. The short answer is that you couldn't carry enough fuel to escape gravity that way. A projectile under power must achieve some very high percentage of the Earth's escape velocity, which is roughly 11.2 km/sec. Otherwise your fuel supply will never last. Once you've achieved escape velocity, that's the velocity you should try to conserve on your trip to the Moon. -- Ed Huntress |
RCM Challenge
On Dec 10, 8:59 am, Stealth Pilot
wrote: ... can you tell me why a vehicle making a steady 100knots cant get to the moon? oil tankers traverse the world at 12 knots. ... Stealth Pilot The oil tanker doesn't need an engine powerful enough to lift itself. For each extra mile you climb you need the fuel to rise that mile plus the added fuel to raise that fuel plus the fuel to raise the added fuel ... It's like building a mountain out of marbles. |
RCM Challenge
Stealth Pilot wrote:
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:56:32 -0600, nick hull wrote: In article , Stealth Pilot wrote: navigation to the moon is a piece of cake. launch just before midnight on a moonlit night and have the robot navigator stay focussed on the large polarised dot of light in the sky and head for it. Won't work; you cannot go directly to the moon, you have to go around the earth because of gravity and the earth's rotation. In any case, it will take several days to get there ;) Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ can you tell me why a vehicle making a steady 100knots cant get to the moon? oil tankers traverse the world at 12 knots. ok the full plot is ...launch on a moon lit night. get a stable ascent, lock in the inputs from the stabilising gyros as setpoints. proceed in a straight line. when the clock indicates that the moon is almost in position each day scan the forward sky for the moon. compute the course correction, adjust, lock in the gyro inputs as setpoints. proceed in a straight line. uniform motion in a straight line requires no thrust. you merely need thrust to adjust for gravity. toward the moon adjust course to chase the trajectory with a view to getting almost to lunar speed. since the moon isnt spinning it shouldnt be too hard to arrange an intercept sorta like driving in a parallel lane to another car on the freeway. actually, rather than having a smart arsed tilt at you I'd appreciate some comments on what would be actually be needed. Stealth Pilot free men live in societies where guns arent needed. IIRC escape velocity from earth orbit is about 24,ooo mph (minimum) 100 kts won't even stay in orbit. That's up around 18,000. While it may not make sense, launching straight up will not put you into orbit. Nor is it a workable way to get to to moon. The trick here is to aim for a point about 50 miles in front of where the moon will be - when you get there. Which is all done with computers! Just like Apollo did, boost into earth orbit, TLI (Trans Lunar Injection) takes you out towards the moon, course corrections as required, then a braking burn to lunar orbit. THEN you still have to get down, but without squishy people aboard that might be easier that it was back then. A big burn to drop the speed and a multi-balloon air bag to absorb the landing impact. |
RCM Challenge
Louis Ohland wrote:
Just leave a pile of Fosters cans. That would do it. A bunch of whiny eco-freaks will demand that the US sends a mission up to return the moon to it's pristine state. Nevermind the cost... I'd kiss each of their pointy little heads, if only they would... |
RCM Challenge
In article ,
Stealth Pilot wrote: free men live in societies where guns arent needed. Free men live in societies where they have anything they can buy or make ;) Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
RCM Challenge
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:17:41 -0600, nick hull wrote:
In article , Stealth Pilot wrote: free men live in societies where guns arent needed. Free men live in societies where they have anything they can buy or make ;) Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ Those without weapons, will plow for those that do. Gunner |
RCM Challenge
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:30:50 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, T. Rex
quickly quoth: In article , says... navigation to the moon is a piece of cake. launch just before midnight on a moonlit night and have the robot navigator stay focussed on the large polarised dot of light in the sky and head for it. No. You couldn't possibly carry enough fuel for the continuous course changes needed to maintain that hyperbolic trajectory. You need to figure out how long it's going to take to get there, and where the moon will be at that time. Then aim at that point. I just need to perfect my gravimetric drive. -- My future starts when I wake up every morning... Every day I find something creative to do with my life. -- Miles Davis |
RCM Challenge
Larry Jaques wrote:
(...) I just need to perfect my gravimetric drive. Forget the electromagnets and 'D' cells Larry. :) --Winston |
RCM Challenge
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:30:50 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, T. Rex quickly quoth: In article , says... navigation to the moon is a piece of cake. launch just before midnight on a moonlit night and have the robot navigator stay focussed on the large polarised dot of light in the sky and head for it. No. You couldn't possibly carry enough fuel for the continuous course changes needed to maintain that hyperbolic trajectory. You need to figure out how long it's going to take to get there, and where the moon will be at that time. Then aim at that point. I just need to perfect my gravimetric drive. -- My future starts when I wake up every morning... Every day I find something creative to do with my life. -- Miles Davis While you are finishing u p on that :) Lets start with a 100 pound payload. several rovers for redundency and a "soft landing" package. |
RCM Challenge
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:14:07 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Winston quickly quoth: Larry Jaques wrote: (...) I just need to perfect my gravimetric drive. Forget the electromagnets and 'D' cells Larry. :) _D_ cells? OK, I'll scrap my AAAA cell theory now. I'm back on the cold-fusion buttons once again. -- My future starts when I wake up every morning... Every day I find something creative to do with my life. -- Miles Davis |
RCM Challenge
In article , cavelamb himself
wrote: Larry Jaques wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:30:50 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, T. Rex quickly quoth: In article , says... navigation to the moon is a piece of cake. launch just before midnight on a moonlit night and have the robot navigator stay focussed on the large polarised dot of light in the sky and head for it. No. You couldn't possibly carry enough fuel for the continuous course changes needed to maintain that hyperbolic trajectory. You need to figure out how long it's going to take to get there, and where the moon will be at that time. Then aim at that point. I just need to perfect my gravimetric drive. -- My future starts when I wake up every morning... Every day I find something creative to do with my life. -- Miles Davis While you are finishing u p on that :) Lets start with a 100 pound payload. several rovers for redundency and a "soft landing" package. Couldn't we reduce escape velocity fuel needs by lifting with a balloon, and the then firing the rocket in earth orbit? -j |
RCM Challenge
JoanD'arcRoast wrote:
In article , cavelamb himself wrote: Larry Jaques wrote: On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:30:50 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, T. Rex quickly quoth: In article , says... navigation to the moon is a piece of cake. launch just before midnight on a moonlit night and have the robot navigator stay focussed on the large polarised dot of light in the sky and head for it. No. You couldn't possibly carry enough fuel for the continuous course changes needed to maintain that hyperbolic trajectory. You need to figure out how long it's going to take to get there, and where the moon will be at that time. Then aim at that point. I just need to perfect my gravimetric drive. -- My future starts when I wake up every morning... Every day I find something creative to do with my life. -- Miles Davis While you are finishing u p on that :) Lets start with a 100 pound payload. several rovers for redundency and a "soft landing" package. Couldn't we reduce escape velocity fuel needs by lifting with a balloon, and the then firing the rocket in earth orbit? -j It certaintly is something that needs to be examined as a possibility. Contract with Rutan for Mothership services? It would limit maximum all up launch weight to that of SpaceShip One. And before anybody asks, no, I don't think the rubber motor will do this time. Richard |
RCM Challenge
In article ,
JoanD'arcRoast wrote: Couldn't we reduce escape velocity fuel needs by lifting with a balloon, and the then firing the rocket in earth orbit? Yes, that is done but you only save a small amount unless you take the balloon VERY high. Usually the rocket us launched THROUGH the balloon and destroys it ;) Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
RCM Challenge
Larry Jaques wrote:
I just need to perfect my gravimetric drive. I thought that you were working on a 'warped' drive? ;-) -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
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