Uncle is restoring a corn shucker for his cousin. The thing has babbitt
bearings and he is a bit short of enough metal to re-babbitt it.

I figured he could take some tin (we have about 5# between us) and add that
to make up enough. The 90% Tin 10% Plumbum alloy ought to work.

I see some mixes use copper. Remembering the woodsmetal thread where it was
said that a low melting point metal will disolve a higher melting point
metal, I wonder if copper could be disolved in tin at just about tin's
melting point. Any one know how they alloy copper into babbitt?

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Uncle is restoring a corn shucker for his cousin. The thing has babbitt
bearings and he is a bit short of enough metal to re-babbitt it.

I figured he could take some tin (we have about 5# between us) and add
that
to make up enough. The 90% Tin 10% Plumbum alloy ought to work.

I see some mixes use copper. Remembering the woodsmetal thread where it
was
said that a low melting point metal will disolve a higher melting point
metal, I wonder if copper could be disolved in tin at just about tin's
melting point. Any one know how they alloy copper into babbitt?

Wes

A few times but not every time I've gotten lucky and been able to replace
babited bearings with ball, roller or needle bearings. A bit of strange
thinking can sometimes come up with a way to do it simply and accurately.
If not, you should still be able to get sticks of material. I'd be thinking
twice about changing the alloy.

"Tom Gardner" wrote:

A few times but not every time I've gotten lucky and been able to replace
babited bearings with ball, roller or needle bearings. A bit of strange
thinking can sometimes come up with a way to do it simply and accurately.
If not, you should still be able to get sticks of material. I'd be thinking
twice about changing the alloy.


This thing is old and cranked by hand. Rolling element bearings would be
overkill. Copper based babbitt is likely overkill but I'm curious how they
alloy the copper into a much lower melting point metal.

Wes

On Nov 30, 8:49 pm, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message

...

Uncle is restoring a corn shucker for his cousin. The thing has babbitt
bearings and he is a bit short of enough metal to re-babbitt it.

I figured he could take some tin (we have about 5# between us) and add
that
to make up enough. The 90% Tin 10% Plumbum alloy ought to work.

I see some mixes use copper. Remembering the woodsmetal thread where it
was
said that a low melting point metal will disolve a higher melting point
metal, I wonder if copper could be disolved in tin at just about tin's
melting point. Any one know how they alloy copper into babbitt?

Wes

We have assembled printed circuit boards for some customers that
require lead free solder. We use 100% tin on some and it will dissolve
any bare copper circuit traces. The raw board has tin coating on the
copper traces, but if the pass through the convection oven takes too
long, so the tin is molten for too long, the copper under the tin
begins to dissolve into the tin coating. Temperature and speed have to
be just right.

Even normal 63/37 tin/lead solder in the wave solder machine will pick
up some copper from components with trimmed leads.

So, I guess if you can find some copper powder or finely ground copper
and added it to your babbit and stirred well, you would have your
alloy.

Paul

"Wes" wrote in message
...
Uncle is restoring a corn shucker for his cousin. The thing has babbitt
bearings and he is a bit short of enough metal to re-babbitt it.

I figured he could take some tin (we have about 5# between us) and add
that
to make up enough. The 90% Tin 10% Plumbum alloy ought to work.

I see some mixes use copper. Remembering the woodsmetal thread where it
was
said that a low melting point metal will disolve a higher melting point
metal, I wonder if copper could be disolved in tin at just about tin's
melting point. Any one know how they alloy copper into babbitt?

Wes

Hi Wes.

Look at the phase diagram for copper/tin: (figure
3)http://www.copper.org/resources/prop...3_5/703_5.html

(We call 'em thermal equilibrium diagrams - "TED" )

See that at - say - 20% Cu, the alloy is totally liquid at about 530 deg C.
Heck - that's a lot less that it takes to melt Aluminium!

Read on, and discover the 88/8/4 Cu/Sn/Zn alloy which is considerably
*harder* than the pure copper. Within reason, that *could* be an advantage
for your application. More cupper-rich alloys shown a little further on.

That any use?

--
Jeff R.

"Jeff R." wrote in message
...


(bloody link!)


http://www.copper.org/resources/prop...3_5/703_5.html

(figure 3)


There!

JR

" wrote in message
...
snip-----
So, I guess if you can find some copper powder or finely ground copper
and added it to your babbit and stirred well, you would have your
alloy.

Paul

Likely not a good idea unless the copper is oxide free. Clean copper,
given a wash in sulfuric acid, would work best. Fine copper wire would be
a good choice----lots of surface area that can be well cleaned prior to
adding to the alloy. Add to the molten lead/tin alloy and keep stirring,
with a bee's wax flux covering to insure no loss of lead and tin. The
copper will dissolve in good time. Molten metals are excellent solvents
for other metals, even those that melt well above the temperature of the
alloy in question.

Harold

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:37:41 -0500, Wes wrote:

Uncle is restoring a corn shucker for his cousin. The thing has babbitt
bearings and he is a bit short of enough metal to re-babbitt it.

I figured he could take some tin (we have about 5# between us) and add that
to make up enough. The 90% Tin 10% Plumbum alloy ought to work.

I see some mixes use copper. Remembering the woodsmetal thread where it was
said that a low melting point metal will disolve a higher melting point
metal, I wonder if copper could be disolved in tin at just about tin's
melting point. Any one know how they alloy copper into babbitt?

Wes
=============
Lindsay has the information you need
click on
http://lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/babbitt/index.html
[this is a Gingery book and very much for the modern ocasional
user.

also see the following for mixing your own.
http://lindsaybks.com/bks7/babb/index.html
http://lindsaybks.com/bks4/babbitt/index.html
for the older techniques and what they used before moglice to
rebuild special nuts.

for old composition click on
http://www.oldengine.org/members/die...s/Babbitt1.htm

new babbitt is available -- click on [but be setting down]
http://www.centaurforge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=10CARB
http://www.magnoliabronze.com/adamant.htm

http://www.alchemyextrusions.com/bab...?source=Google
http://www.aimalloys.com/solder_prod...bitt_metal.htm

supplies
http://www.rotometals.com/Pewter-Cas...bbits_c_1.html

Hope this helps -- let the group know how things went and if
possible post some pictures to the drop box.
http://www.metalworking.com/


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 00:09:17 -0500, Wes wrote:

"Tom Gardner" wrote:

A few times but not every time I've gotten lucky and been able to replace
babited bearings with ball, roller or needle bearings. A bit of strange
thinking can sometimes come up with a way to do it simply and accurately.
If not, you should still be able to get sticks of material. I'd be thinking
twice about changing the alloy.


This thing is old and cranked by hand. Rolling element bearings would be
overkill. Copper based babbitt is likely overkill but I'm curious how they
alloy the copper into a much lower melting point metal.

Wes

I can only comment from melting aluminium alloys.
I once needed to stir some dross out of a crucible of aluminium melt.
what to use? what to use? as I looked around the workshop.
a pair of leather gloves for the heat and an offcut of copper pipe
since that melts at about 1500 degrees.

I dont think I got it stirred around twice before it was all gone.
totally dissolved into the aluminium.

if the tin behaves the same when melted you just stir the copper in.
and watch in amazement as it vanishes into the melt.

Stealth Pilot

I hereby nominate FG as the KING OF GOOGLE.

For this week anyway. :-)

GWE

Robert Swinney wrote:

Nice refs. F. George, thanks.

Bob Swinney
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:37:41 -0500, Wes wrote:


Uncle is restoring a corn shucker for his cousin. The thing has babbitt
bearings and he is a bit short of enough metal to re-babbitt it.

I figured he could take some tin (we have about 5# between us) and add that
to make up enough. The 90% Tin 10% Plumbum alloy ought to work.

I see some mixes use copper. Remembering the woodsmetal thread where it was
said that a low melting point metal will disolve a higher melting point
metal, I wonder if copper could be disolved in tin at just about tin's
melting point. Any one know how they alloy copper into babbitt?

Wes

=============
Lindsay has the information you need
click on
http://lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/babbitt/index.html
[this is a Gingery book and very much for the modern ocasional
user.

also see the following for mixing your own.
http://lindsaybks.com/bks7/babb/index.html
http://lindsaybks.com/bks4/babbitt/index.html
for the older techniques and what they used before moglice to
rebuild special nuts.

for old composition click on
http://www.oldengine.org/members/die...s/Babbitt1.htm

new babbitt is available -- click on [but be setting down]
http://www.centaurforge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=10CARB
http://www.magnoliabronze.com/adamant.htm

http://www.alchemyextrusions.com/bab...?source=Google
http://www.aimalloys.com/solder_prod...bitt_metal.htm

supplies
http://www.rotometals.com/Pewter-Cas...bbits_c_1.html

Hope this helps -- let the group know how things went and if
possible post some pictures to the drop box.
http://www.metalworking.com/


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

" wrote in message
...
On Nov 30, 8:49 pm, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message

...

Uncle is restoring a corn shucker for his cousin. The thing has
babbitt
bearings and he is a bit short of enough metal to re-babbitt it.

I figured he could take some tin (we have about 5# between us) and add
that
to make up enough. The 90% Tin 10% Plumbum alloy ought to work.

I see some mixes use copper. Remembering the woodsmetal thread where
it
was
said that a low melting point metal will disolve a higher melting point
metal, I wonder if copper could be disolved in tin at just about tin's
melting point. Any one know how they alloy copper into babbitt?

Wes

We have assembled printed circuit boards for some customers that
require lead free solder. We use 100% tin on some and it will dissolve
any bare copper circuit traces. The raw board has tin coating on the
copper traces, but if the pass through the convection oven takes too
long, so the tin is molten for too long, the copper under the tin
begins to dissolve into the tin coating. Temperature and speed have to
be just right.

Even normal 63/37 tin/lead solder in the wave solder machine will pick
up some copper from components with trimmed leads.

So, I guess if you can find some copper powder or finely ground copper
and added it to your babbit and stirred well, you would have your
alloy.

Paul
Ordinary tin/lead solder dissolves copper soldering tips fairly rapidly. One
manufacturer made a "Sav-bit" solder containing copper to reduce the effect.
I heard of an electrician who made a solder pot out of copper, only to have
the bottom perforate fairly soon.

Don Young

On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 04:49:48 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"Wes" wrote in message
...
Uncle is restoring a corn shucker for his cousin. The thing has babbitt
bearings and he is a bit short of enough metal to re-babbitt it.

I figured he could take some tin (we have about 5# between us) and add
that
to make up enough. The 90% Tin 10% Plumbum alloy ought to work.

I see some mixes use copper. Remembering the woodsmetal thread where it
was
said that a low melting point metal will disolve a higher melting point
metal, I wonder if copper could be disolved in tin at just about tin's
melting point. Any one know how they alloy copper into babbitt?

Wes

A few times but not every time I've gotten lucky and been able to replace
babited bearings with ball, roller or needle bearings. A bit of strange
thinking can sometimes come up with a way to do it simply and accurately.
If not, you should still be able to get sticks of material. I'd be thinking
twice about changing the alloy.

There are about 100 different "babit" bearing formulas.

Some use lead, others use tin, others use nickel tin etc

Gunner