On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:15:57 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

I've just wired an external box with 10/3 solid copper 600v. wire with AWG
running about ten feet from the panel to an outside outlet. I need to run
it 100' to my slab where I weld. I want to use MAINLY a Lincoln SP 175+,
and the input amperage on that is 22 amps. Can I run a 100' of 10/3 AWG
with stranded wire safely? It's the big yellow one available at HD.

Now, I also have an AC 225 Tombstone that pulls 50-63 amps. How about that
one?

I'm probably going to get a gas driven welder/generator in the future, but
this is what I have to work with NOW.

Steve

Safely, yes. Voltage drop: resistance of 200 ft (round trip) of #10
copper is about 0.2 ohms, drop of 0.2 volt per amp or about 4.4 volts
at 22 amps -- shouldn't be an issue. It'd be 12 volts at 60 amps or
5.5% of 220V, shouldn't be an issue.

Don Foreman wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:15:57 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

I've just wired an external box with 10/3 solid copper 600v. wire with AWG
running about ten feet from the panel to an outside outlet. I need to run
it 100' to my slab where I weld. I want to use MAINLY a Lincoln SP 175+,
and the input amperage on that is 22 amps. Can I run a 100' of 10/3 AWG
with stranded wire safely? It's the big yellow one available at HD.

Now, I also have an AC 225 Tombstone that pulls 50-63 amps. How about that
one?

I'm probably going to get a gas driven welder/generator in the future, but
this is what I have to work with NOW.

Steve

Safely, yes. Voltage drop: resistance of 200 ft (round trip) of #10
copper is about 0.2 ohms, drop of 0.2 volt per amp or about 4.4 volts
at 22 amps -- shouldn't be an issue. It'd be 12 volts at 60 amps or
5.5% of 220V, shouldn't be an issue.

60 A through 10 GA wire certainly would be an issue, at least code wise,
seeing as it's only rated for 30 A generally.

Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:15:57 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:


I've just wired an external box with 10/3 solid copper 600v. wire with AWG
running about ten feet from the panel to an outside outlet. I need to run
it 100' to my slab where I weld. I want to use MAINLY a Lincoln SP 175+,
and the input amperage on that is 22 amps. Can I run a 100' of 10/3 AWG
with stranded wire safely? It's the big yellow one available at HD.

Now, I also have an AC 225 Tombstone that pulls 50-63 amps. How about that
one?

I'm probably going to get a gas driven welder/generator in the future, but
this is what I have to work with NOW.

Steve


Safely, yes. Voltage drop: resistance of 200 ft (round trip) of #10
copper is about 0.2 ohms, drop of 0.2 volt per amp or about 4.4 volts
at 22 amps -- shouldn't be an issue. It'd be 12 volts at 60 amps or
5.5% of 220V, shouldn't be an issue.

Power dropped by the extension cord is 97 W in the first case and 720 W
in the second case. That second figure sounds high to me.

http://www.belden.com/pdfs/MasterCat.../3.28_3.32.pdf

Page '3.30' has a table showing ampacities for multiple conductor
cables. Table 4 shows 40 A being an upper limit for 10 AWG neoprene
insulation at 86 F ambient (or cooler). That's 320 W loss or 44% of the
loss at 60 A.

Were I you, I would buy another identical extension cord and connect it
in parallel with your existing cord. You'd have 0.10 ohm loop
resistance, a drop of 6.3 V or 397 W at 63 A. That should limit power in
each cord to 200 W and you get to use the additional 320 W (that would
have been wasted as heat in one cable).

--Winston

SteveB wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Don Foreman wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:15:57 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

I've just wired an external box with 10/3 solid copper 600v. wire with
AWG
running about ten feet from the panel to an outside outlet. I need to
run
it 100' to my slab where I weld. I want to use MAINLY a Lincoln SP
175+,
and the input amperage on that is 22 amps. Can I run a 100' of 10/3 AWG
with stranded wire safely? It's the big yellow one available at HD.

Now, I also have an AC 225 Tombstone that pulls 50-63 amps. How about
that
one?

I'm probably going to get a gas driven welder/generator in the future,
but
this is what I have to work with NOW.

Steve

Safely, yes. Voltage drop: resistance of 200 ft (round trip) of #10
copper is about 0.2 ohms, drop of 0.2 volt per amp or about 4.4 volts
at 22 amps -- shouldn't be an issue. It'd be 12 volts at 60 amps or
5.5% of 220V, shouldn't be an issue.

60 A through 10 GA wire certainly would be an issue, at least code wise,
seeing as it's only rated for 30 A generally.

As I wrote this, I was thinking that the wirefeed would PROBABLY work, but
the buzz box probably would NOT work. I'm trying to get hold of my union
electrician friend, but he is in another city and has not called me back
yet. In the meantime, I'm trying to get a handle on what I can and can't
do.

Thanks for your input(s).

Steve

The buzz box will certainly work, but only up to about half output. As
long as your circuit has properly sized breakers i.e. 30A it's safe
enough. Since the NEC has an exception for circuits serving electric
welders you could over fuse the circuit based on the duty cycle of the
welder if that's all it's feeding.

I ran my nominal 100A input Syncrowave on a 30A circuit for around a
year before I got around to upgrading power to my shop. Since I was
mostly welding 16 GA square steel tubing and only pushing near 1/3
output it ran fine.

Winston wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:15:57 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:


I've just wired an external box with 10/3 solid copper 600v. wire with AWG
running about ten feet from the panel to an outside outlet. I need to run
it 100' to my slab where I weld. I want to use MAINLY a Lincoln SP 175+,
and the input amperage on that is 22 amps. Can I run a 100' of 10/3 AWG
with stranded wire safely? It's the big yellow one available at HD.

Now, I also have an AC 225 Tombstone that pulls 50-63 amps. How about that
one?

I'm probably going to get a gas driven welder/generator in the future, but
this is what I have to work with NOW.

Steve


Safely, yes. Voltage drop: resistance of 200 ft (round trip) of #10
copper is about 0.2 ohms, drop of 0.2 volt per amp or about 4.4 volts
at 22 amps -- shouldn't be an issue. It'd be 12 volts at 60 amps or
5.5% of 220V, shouldn't be an issue.

Power dropped by the extension cord is 97 W in the first case and 720 W
in the second case. That second figure sounds high to me.

http://www.belden.com/pdfs/MasterCat.../3.28_3.32.pdf

Page '3.30' has a table showing ampacities for multiple conductor
cables. Table 4 shows 40 A being an upper limit for 10 AWG neoprene
insulation at 86 F ambient (or cooler). That's 320 W loss or 44% of the
loss at 60 A.

Were I you, I would buy another identical extension cord and connect it
in parallel with your existing cord. You'd have 0.10 ohm loop
resistance, a drop of 6.3 V or 397 W at 63 A. That should limit power in
each cord to 200 W and you get to use the additional 320 W (that would
have been wasted as heat in one cable).

--Winston

NEC Article 630 allows supply conductors for arc welders to be "over
fused" based on the welder duty cycle (table 630.11(A)).

Pete C. wrote:

Winston wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:15:57 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:



I've just wired an external box with 10/3 solid copper 600v. wire with AWG
running about ten feet from the panel to an outside outlet. I need to run
it 100' to my slab where I weld. I want to use MAINLY a Lincoln SP 175+,
and the input amperage on that is 22 amps. Can I run a 100' of 10/3 AWG
with stranded wire safely? It's the big yellow one available at HD.

Now, I also have an AC 225 Tombstone that pulls 50-63 amps. How about that
one?

I'm probably going to get a gas driven welder/generator in the future, but
this is what I have to work with NOW.

Steve


Safely, yes. Voltage drop: resistance of 200 ft (round trip) of #10
copper is about 0.2 ohms, drop of 0.2 volt per amp or about 4.4 volts
at 22 amps -- shouldn't be an issue. It'd be 12 volts at 60 amps or
5.5% of 220V, shouldn't be an issue.

Power dropped by the extension cord is 97 W in the first case and 720 W
in the second case. That second figure sounds high to me.

http://www.belden.com/pdfs/MasterCat.../3.28_3.32.pdf

Page '3.30' has a table showing ampacities for multiple conductor
cables. Table 4 shows 40 A being an upper limit for 10 AWG neoprene
insulation at 86 F ambient (or cooler). That's 320 W loss or 44% of the
loss at 60 A.

Were I you, I would buy another identical extension cord and connect it
in parallel with your existing cord. You'd have 0.10 ohm loop
resistance, a drop of 6.3 V or 397 W at 63 A. That should limit power in
each cord to 200 W and you get to use the additional 320 W (that would
have been wasted as heat in one cable).

--Winston


NEC Article 630 allows supply conductors for arc welders to be "over
fused" based on the welder duty cycle (table 630.11(A)).

I think the headroom is worth the US$130. That's just me, though.
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/12-33-outdoor-extension-cords/10-3-conductor-100''-yellow-jacket-extension-cord-646965.aspx

--Winston -- More Powerrrrr!

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
Don Foreman wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:15:57 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

I've just wired an external box with 10/3 solid copper 600v. wire with
AWG
running about ten feet from the panel to an outside outlet. I need to
run
it 100' to my slab where I weld. I want to use MAINLY a Lincoln SP
175+,
and the input amperage on that is 22 amps. Can I run a 100' of 10/3 AWG
with stranded wire safely? It's the big yellow one available at HD.

Now, I also have an AC 225 Tombstone that pulls 50-63 amps. How about
that
one?

I'm probably going to get a gas driven welder/generator in the future,
but
this is what I have to work with NOW.

Steve

Safely, yes. Voltage drop: resistance of 200 ft (round trip) of #10
copper is about 0.2 ohms, drop of 0.2 volt per amp or about 4.4 volts
at 22 amps -- shouldn't be an issue. It'd be 12 volts at 60 amps or
5.5% of 220V, shouldn't be an issue.

60 A through 10 GA wire certainly would be an issue, at least code wise,
seeing as it's only rated for 30 A generally.

As I wrote this, I was thinking that the wirefeed would PROBABLY work, but
the buzz box probably would NOT work. I'm trying to get hold of my union
electrician friend, but he is in another city and has not called me back
yet. In the meantime, I'm trying to get a handle on what I can and can't
do.

Thanks for your input(s).

Steve

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:09:40 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:15:57 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

I've just wired an external box with 10/3 solid copper 600v. wire with AWG
running about ten feet from the panel to an outside outlet. I need to run
it 100' to my slab where I weld. I want to use MAINLY a Lincoln SP 175+,
and the input amperage on that is 22 amps. Can I run a 100' of 10/3 AWG
with stranded wire safely? It's the big yellow one available at HD.

Now, I also have an AC 225 Tombstone that pulls 50-63 amps. How about that
one?

I'm probably going to get a gas driven welder/generator in the future, but
this is what I have to work with NOW.

Steve

Safely, yes. Voltage drop: resistance of 200 ft (round trip) of #10
copper is about 0.2 ohms, drop of 0.2 volt per amp or about 4.4 volts
at 22 amps -- shouldn't be an issue. It'd be 12 volts at 60 amps or
5.5% of 220V, shouldn't be an issue.

60 A through 10 GA wire certainly would be an issue, at least code wise,
seeing as it's only rated for 30 A generally.

For in-building wireing, yes. Codes don't apply to extension cords in
open air, far as I know -- but I'm not an electrician. Winston is
right, 7.2 watts per foot is a lot and may be too much -- cord might
get too hot.

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:09:21 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Winston quickly quoth:

I think the headroom is worth the US$130. That's just me, though.
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/12-33-outdoor-extension-cords/10-3-conductor-100''-yellow-jacket-extension-cord-646965.aspx

http://tinyurl.com/37ghvr US$90 @ eBay
http://tinyurl.com/3cx5kt US$100 @ Tractor Supply

P.S: Those cords are HEAVY!


--Winston -- More Powerrrrr!

Arr, arr, arr!

--
Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries
or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself.
-- William Faulkner

Don Foreman wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:09:40 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:15:57 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

I've just wired an external box with 10/3 solid copper 600v. wire with AWG
running about ten feet from the panel to an outside outlet. I need to run
it 100' to my slab where I weld. I want to use MAINLY a Lincoln SP 175+,
and the input amperage on that is 22 amps. Can I run a 100' of 10/3 AWG
with stranded wire safely? It's the big yellow one available at HD.

Now, I also have an AC 225 Tombstone that pulls 50-63 amps. How about that
one?

I'm probably going to get a gas driven welder/generator in the future, but
this is what I have to work with NOW.

Steve

Safely, yes. Voltage drop: resistance of 200 ft (round trip) of #10
copper is about 0.2 ohms, drop of 0.2 volt per amp or about 4.4 volts
at 22 amps -- shouldn't be an issue. It'd be 12 volts at 60 amps or
5.5% of 220V, shouldn't be an issue.

60 A through 10 GA wire certainly would be an issue, at least code wise,
seeing as it's only rated for 30 A generally.

For in-building wireing, yes. Codes don't apply to extension cords in
open air, far as I know -- but I'm not an electrician. Winston is
right, 7.2 watts per foot is a lot and may be too much -- cord might
get too hot.

He ran 10/3 from the panel to an outside outlet, so that is 30A inside
wiring, the only exception is Article 630 if the circuit is only for an
arc welder in which case it can be "over fused" based on the welders
duty cycle. It's also not directly the duty cycle, i.e. 50% duty cycle
does not mean you can run 60A on 30A wire. The table in that article
gives the multiplier to use.

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:33:27 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:09:40 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:


Safely, yes. Voltage drop: resistance of 200 ft (round trip) of #10
copper is about 0.2 ohms, drop of 0.2 volt per amp or about 4.4 volts
at 22 amps -- shouldn't be an issue. It'd be 12 volts at 60 amps or
5.5% of 220V, shouldn't be an issue.

60 A through 10 GA wire certainly would be an issue, at least code wise,
seeing as it's only rated for 30 A generally.

For in-building wireing, yes. Codes don't apply to extension cords in
open air, far as I know -- but I'm not an electrician. Winston is
right, 7.2 watts per foot is a lot and may be too much -- cord might
get too hot.

Though the duty cycle on the Tombstone is only 20%, so the welder is
more likely than the cord to overheat. Disregarding the voltage drop,
for permanent premises wiring, a 60A breaker feeding a 20% duty cycle
welder thru 10 ga wire would be code compliant.

--
Ned Simmons

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:09:21 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Winston quickly quoth:


I think the headroom is worth the US$130. That's just me, though.
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/12-33-outdoor-extension-cords/10-3-conductor-100''-yellow-jacket-extension-cord-646965.aspx


http://tinyurl.com/37ghvr US$90 @ eBay
http://tinyurl.com/3cx5kt US$100 @ Tractor Supply

Good finds, Larry!

P.S: Those cords are HEAVY!

Copperrrrr!

--Winston

"SteveB" wrote

Although I can't use the buzz box, now this gives me an excuse to buy
one. :-)

Thanks to all.

Steve

Meant to say buy a gas driven AC/DC welder and generator.

ooops.

brain fart

"SteveB" wrote in
:

He has suggested going to 6 ga. to run up to the shop
later, but that will probably involve running another line from the
pole.


He had a really good suggestion. Problem is, with the price of copper, it
may be the same money to just put a separate service in the shop.

--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

Anthony wrote:

"SteveB" wrote in
:

He has suggested going to 6 ga. to run up to the shop
later, but that will probably involve running another line from the
pole.


He had a really good suggestion. Problem is, with the price of copper, it
may be the same money to just put a separate service in the shop.

Possibly, but a separate service in the shop will come with a separate
service charge each and every month forever. When I repowered my shop
which is also about a 100' run from my main panel, I ran 1/0 copper for
a 125A service. The copper prices were up then, but not as bad as now,
but it's still over with and not charging me every month.

"Anthony" wrote

He had a really good suggestion. Problem is, with the price of copper, it
may be the same money to just put a separate service in the shop.

--
Anthony


That's what we'd do, since we're maxed out on the 200A house panel. So, for
the cost, it becomes an option to just buy a welder/genset.

Steve

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:32:56 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:


60 A through 10 GA wire certainly would be an issue, at least code wise,
seeing as it's only rated for 30 A generally.

As I wrote this, I was thinking that the wirefeed would PROBABLY work, but
the buzz box probably would NOT work. I'm trying to get hold of my union
electrician friend, but he is in another city and has not called me back
yet. In the meantime, I'm trying to get a handle on what I can and can't
do.

Thanks for your input(s).

Steve

I once pulled 500 amps out of a CyberTig 2, using 12ga stranded

Not for very long, just long enough to stick a piece of 6011
completely through both sides of a 2.5x2.5" piece of thickwall tubing.

About 120 amps at 240, 3ph. Didnt get very warm, though the ****
dribbling down my leg was warmish.

Had the remot control pot wired backwards......low turned out to be
"full on, full military power"

Gunner

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 07:33:28 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


He had a really good suggestion. Problem is, with the price of copper, it
may be the same money to just put a separate service in the shop.

Possibly, but a separate service in the shop will come with a separate
service charge each and every month forever. When I repowered my shop
which is also about a 100' run from my main panel, I ran 1/0 copper for
a 125A service. The copper prices were up then, but not as bad as now,
but it's still over with and not charging me every month.


I just ran 2400lbs of 2/0 for a customer, and am fixing to hang about
the same amount of 10ga.

Im glad Im not providing materials on this job.........

Gunner

SteveB wrote:

"Anthony" wrote

He had a really good suggestion. Problem is, with the price of copper, it
may be the same money to just put a separate service in the shop.

--
Anthony

That's what we'd do, since we're maxed out on the 200A house panel. So, for
the cost, it becomes an option to just buy a welder/genset.

Steve

How many spaces on that 200A panel? Are you really maxed out as in out
of capacity, or just out of spaces? Remember, a second service comes
with a second monthly service charge forever, so it far cheaper to use
appropriate sub panels rather than a separate service.