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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
My older flat wheel wire brush from Menards was vibrating rather
wildly on my 1/2 HP motor. So a few days ago I asked a bunch of questions about wire brushing, hoping to improve my situation. Here's the outcome. I bought a 8" fine wire bruch from McMaster, item 4840A48. Also bought one extra motor arbor adaptor. After replacing the previous brush and previous adapter with both new brush and a new adapter, the difference is huge. The motor no longer vibrates, the noise is gone, and it is all smooth and quiet. I believe that 1/2 horsepower is fine for this fine bristle brush, because the manual says do not press too much on it when brushing. If I do not press too hard, then the motor keeps up with speed just fine. This is a 50 year old Peerless motor that cost me just $2 (IIRC) and if I can use it, I will be happy. What I use this brush for, is I clean various gunky or slightly rusty things. i |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
On 2007-11-16, SteveB wrote:
ANY time you get a lot of vibration, whether a stationary piece of machinery or hand held, it is a red flag. Something is out of balance, something is off center, or just not right. You did the right thing checking it out before it wound up in your forehead or somewhere that would have really hurt you. ;-) In fact, I was stupid and should have stopped a lot earlier. You are 100% right. i |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
"Ignoramus11967" wrote in message ... My older flat wheel wire brush from Menards was vibrating rather wildly on my 1/2 HP motor. So a few days ago I asked a bunch of questions about wire brushing, hoping to improve my situation. Here's the outcome. I bought a 8" fine wire bruch from McMaster, item 4840A48. Also bought one extra motor arbor adaptor. After replacing the previous brush and previous adapter with both new brush and a new adapter, the difference is huge. The motor no longer vibrates, the noise is gone, and it is all smooth and quiet. I believe that 1/2 horsepower is fine for this fine bristle brush, because the manual says do not press too much on it when brushing. If I do not press too hard, then the motor keeps up with speed just fine. This is a 50 year old Peerless motor that cost me just $2 (IIRC) and if I can use it, I will be happy. What I use this brush for, is I clean various gunky or slightly rusty things. i ANY time you get a lot of vibration, whether a stationary piece of machinery or hand held, it is a red flag. Something is out of balance, something is off center, or just not right. You did the right thing checking it out before it wound up in your forehead or somewhere that would have really hurt you. ;-) Steve |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
On Nov 16, 9:24 am, Ignoramus11967 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11967.invalid wrote: My older flat wheel wire brush from Menards was vibrating rather wildly on my 1/2 HP motor. So a few days ago I asked a bunch of questions about wire brushing, hoping to improve my situation. Here's the outcome. I bought a 8" fine wire bruch from McMaster, item 4840A48. Also bought one extra motor arbor adaptor. After replacing the previous brush and previous adapter with both new brush and a new adapter, the difference is huge. The motor no longer vibrates, the noise is gone, and it is all smooth and quiet. I believe that 1/2 horsepower is fine for this fine bristle brush, because the manual says do not press too much on it when brushing. If I do not press too hard, then the motor keeps up with speed just fine. This is a 50 year old Peerless motor that cost me just $2 (IIRC) and if I can use it, I will be happy. What I use this brush for, is I clean various gunky or slightly rusty things. i FWIW those blocks of abrasive used to clean a diamond wheel do a bang up job of "sharpening" a wire wheel and making it cut better. |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
beecrofter wrote:
On Nov 16, 9:24 am, Ignoramus11967 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM. 11967.invalid wrote: (...) FWIW those blocks of abrasive used to clean a diamond wheel do a bang up job of "sharpening" a wire wheel and making it cut better. That makes me wonder if I ran the wire wheel in reverse against one of those blocks, would I get a 'sharper' wire wheel? --Winston |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
Winston wrote:
beecrofter wrote: On Nov 16, 9:24 am, Ignoramus11967 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM. 11967.invalid wrote: (...) FWIW those blocks of abrasive used to clean a diamond wheel do a bang up job of "sharpening" a wire wheel and making it cut better. That makes me wonder if I ran the wire wheel in reverse against one of those blocks, would I get a 'sharper' wire wheel? --Winston I need to wire brush lots of rusty items as well, so ive done a no of things to improve my motor driven round wire brushes. 1. as the wires wear, if you look closely at a wire you will see it had become taperd at an angle to the wire. 2. also the wirestend to bend backwards from the direction of rotation. 3.You can improve the brushing action by taking the wheel off the arbour and putting it back on so it runs the other way. This will work for a while till thewires wear once again back to 2. above. 4. Now a much more drastic way of restoring your wire brush is to take it off the arbour and take it over to your bench grinder. Offer up the wheel side on to the grinding wheel to effectively square up the wire ends. This will restore the wheel to what it cut like when it was new., as the wires are in fact guillotined square when made.. Now as the wires get shorter you will find that they get more aggesive in their cleaning action if youfollow 4. above, So the trick is to have several wire brushes, some with short wires for heavy cleaning and some newonesfor final burnishing., For someof my production work I use a very fine steel wire brush, wire thicknessof 10./1000 in Perfect for burnishing say a minted plaque without destroying the detail thereon I run this wire brush against a 120 grit broken grinding wheel. this cleanes the wires and makes them slightly rough. this works wonderson brass bronze ,silver etc. Rotation speed is also an important variable. A say 6in wheel running at 3000 rpm cuts well the same wheel at 500 rpm has quite a different action and finish. Dependson what you want. Hope this helps. Brushing is a long forgotten process in a silversmiths workshop Canning published a book on wire and all sorts of other brushing wheels, treatmentsetc. Published about 1940. For example one technique for preparing nickel silver for plating is to use abristlebrush with a drip feed of water and pumice powder . This has the scouring action of your kitchn sink cleaner. This is used with aguard to keepcthewater and pumice out of your face etc!!. Aword of caution, wire brushing wheels shed wires. Always wear eye protection shields. and riggers gloves if your pressing hard. Wire wheels take off skin very fast. |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
"Ignoramus11967" wrote in message ... My older flat wheel wire brush from Menards was vibrating rather wildly on my 1/2 HP motor. So a few days ago I asked a bunch of questions about wire brushing, hoping to improve my situation. Here's the outcome. I bought a 8" fine wire bruch from McMaster, item 4840A48. Also bought one extra motor arbor adaptor. After replacing the previous brush and previous adapter with both new brush and a new adapter, the difference is huge. The motor no longer vibrates, the noise is gone, and it is all smooth and quiet. I believe that 1/2 horsepower is fine for this fine bristle brush, because the manual says do not press too much on it when brushing. If I do not press too hard, then the motor keeps up with speed just fine. This is a 50 year old Peerless motor that cost me just $2 (IIRC) and if I can use it, I will be happy. What I use this brush for, is I clean various gunky or slightly rusty things. From what I've seen in periodic browsings through the tool section in the Menards near me, they seem to sell just about the cheapest tools on the market and I try to limit my purchases there to stuff that isn't safety critical or needed for more than a use or two. Mike |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
On 2007-11-17, Mike Henry wrote:
From what I've seen in periodic browsings through the tool section in the Menards near me, they seem to sell just about the cheapest tools on the market and I try to limit my purchases there to stuff that isn't safety critical or needed for more than a use or two. I have finally come to the same conclusion. McMaster price is not much greater and the quality is much better. i |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
"beecrofter" wrote in message ... On Nov 16, 9:24 am, Ignoramus11967 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM. 11967.invalid wrote: My older flat wheel wire brush from Menards was vibrating rather wildly on my 1/2 HP motor. So a few days ago I asked a bunch of questions about wire brushing, hoping to improve my situation. Here's the outcome. I bought a 8" fine wire bruch from McMaster, item 4840A48. Also bought one extra motor arbor adaptor. After replacing the previous brush and previous adapter with both new brush and a new adapter, the difference is huge. The motor no longer vibrates, the noise is gone, and it is all smooth and quiet. I believe that 1/2 horsepower is fine for this fine bristle brush, because the manual says do not press too much on it when brushing. If I do not press too hard, then the motor keeps up with speed just fine. This is a 50 year old Peerless motor that cost me just $2 (IIRC) and if I can use it, I will be happy. What I use this brush for, is I clean various gunky or slightly rusty things. i FWIW those blocks of abrasive used to clean a diamond wheel do a bang up job of "sharpening" a wire wheel and making it cut better. Shush! Nobody's supposed to know that. The usual method of using wire wheels is to press the workpiece harder into the under-powered, under-revved, wrong trim length, wrong wire size, wrong diameter, wrong width wire wheel. I'm convinced that less than 1% of people use a wire wheel properly and I want to keep it that way! You're supposed to use a brush once, destroy it and throw it away...then go buy a new one. |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
On 2007-11-17, Tom Gardner wrote:
Shush! Nobody's supposed to know that. The usual method of using wire wheels is to press the workpiece harder into the under-powered, under-revved, wrong trim length, wrong wire size, wrong diameter, wrong width wire wheel. I'm convinced that less than 1% of people use a wire wheel properly and I want to keep it that way! You're supposed to use a brush once, destroy it and throw it away...then go buy a new one. Tom, what would be a proper HP and RPM for a 8", 3/4" wide wire wheel? i |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
"Ignoramus11967" wrote in message ... On 2007-11-17, Tom Gardner wrote: Shush! Nobody's supposed to know that. The usual method of using wire wheels is to press the workpiece harder into the under-powered, under-revved, wrong trim length, wrong wire size, wrong diameter, wrong width wire wheel. I'm convinced that less than 1% of people use a wire wheel properly and I want to keep it that way! You're supposed to use a brush once, destroy it and throw it away...then go buy a new one. Tom, what would be a proper HP and RPM for a 8", 3/4" wide wire wheel? i What wire size? What trim? EG. my shop brush is 10" x 2" x .014" wire x 3" trim and it's on a 2-1/2 HP (maybe a bit over-kill) 3600 rpm. An 8" x 3/4" x .014" oil-tempered wire at 4500 rpm (or about 75% MSFS) with at least 1 hp is a good GP set-up for most anything you will want to do. If it slows much under load, not good. If you find you're pushing the work, not good, only the wire tips do the work. DON'T CHANGE ROTATION!!! = early death! The right set-up will last hundreds of hours. (PS...I sell to McMaster) |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
Tom Gardner wrote:
"Ignoramus11967" wrote in message ... On 2007-11-17, Tom Gardner wrote: Shush! Nobody's supposed to know that. The usual method of using wire wheels is to press the workpiece harder into the under-powered, under-revved, wrong trim length, wrong wire size, wrong diameter, wrong width wire wheel. I'm convinced that less than 1% of people use a wire wheel properly and I want to keep it that way! You're supposed to use a brush once, destroy it and throw it away...then go buy a new one. Tom, what would be a proper HP and RPM for a 8", 3/4" wide wire wheel? i What wire size? What trim? EG. my shop brush is 10" x 2" x .014" wire x 3" trim and it's on a 2-1/2 HP (maybe a bit over-kill) 3600 rpm. An 8" x 3/4" x .014" oil-tempered wire at 4500 rpm (or about 75% MSFS) with at least 1 hp is a good GP set-up for most anything you will want to do. If it slows much under load, not good. If you find you're pushing the work, not good, only the wire tips do the work. DON'T CHANGE ROTATION!!! = early death! The right set-up will last hundreds of hours. (PS...I sell to McMaster) Dont cange rotation? Id be grateful for aproper technical explanation for this. I do that regularly and it doesnt effect the life ofc the brush, in fact it extends the life. you get more work done this way. Read my last post on brush usage. Could it be that as you sell these youve a vested interest in seeing the brushes last as little as possible? Its not meant as a chriticism just an normal engineering question. |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
....
right set-up will last hundreds of hours. (PS...I sell to McMaster) McMaster is one of my favorite vendors. How are they as a customer? The reason I ask, I know of at at least two examples where a good vendor is a terrible customer: 1. Walmart, 2. The Produce Distributor for my area Karl |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:42:47 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Tom
Gardner" quickly quoth: "beecrofter" wrote in message ... FWIW those blocks of abrasive used to clean a diamond wheel do a bang up job of "sharpening" a wire wheel and making it cut better. Shush! Nobody's supposed to know that. The usual method of using wire wheels is to press the workpiece harder into the under-powered, Can you say "porcupine"? I knew you could. under-revved, wrong trim length, wrong wire size, wrong diameter, wrong width wire wheel. I'm convinced that less than 1% of people use a wire wheel properly and I want to keep it that way! You're supposed to use a brush once, destroy it and throw it away...then go buy a new one. But your brushes can be mishandled like that and keep on ticking, right? No wonder you get the big bucks. -- After all, it is those who have a deep and real inner life who are best able to deal with the irritating details of outer life. -- Evelyn Underhill |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
On 2007-11-17, Tom Gardner wrote:
"Ignoramus11967" wrote in message ... On 2007-11-17, Tom Gardner wrote: Shush! Nobody's supposed to know that. The usual method of using wire wheels is to press the workpiece harder into the under-powered, under-revved, wrong trim length, wrong wire size, wrong diameter, wrong width wire wheel. I'm convinced that less than 1% of people use a wire wheel properly and I want to keep it that way! You're supposed to use a brush once, destroy it and throw it away...then go buy a new one. Tom, what would be a proper HP and RPM for a 8", 3/4" wide wire wheel? i What wire size? What trim? EG. my shop brush is 10" x 2" x .014" wire x 3" trim and it's on a 2-1/2 HP (maybe a bit over-kill) 3600 rpm. An 8" x 3/4" x .014" oil-tempered wire at 4500 rpm (or about 75% MSFS) with at least 1 hp is a good GP set-up for most anything you will want to do. If it slows much under load, not good. If you find you're pushing the work, not good, only the wire tips do the work. DON'T CHANGE ROTATION!!! = early death! The right set-up will last hundreds of hours. (PS...I sell to McMaster) Tom, the brush is McMaster item 4840A48. I doubt that I have a 1 HP 3450 RPM motor, but these are not hard to come across, so I will keep looking. I currently use a 1/2 HP motor. i |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
On 2007-11-17, Karl Townsend wrote:
... right set-up will last hundreds of hours. (PS...I sell to McMaster) McMaster is one of my favorite vendors. How are they as a customer? The reason I ask, I know of at at least two examples where a good vendor is a terrible customer: 1. Walmart, 2. The Produce Distributor for my area Walmart is not a good vendor. Most of their things that I bought, lately, broke very soon under regular use. i |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
"Ted Frater" wrote in message ... snip Dont cange rotation? Id be grateful for aproper technical explanation for this. I do that regularly and it doesnt effect the life ofc the brush, in fact it extends the life. you get more work done this way. Read my last post on brush usage. Could it be that as you sell these youve a vested interest in seeing the brushes last as little as possible? Its not meant as a chriticism just an normal engineering question. I've found the best way to sell more brushes is to just keep my mouth shut! If you're reversing a brush, it is not the right brush, speed, alloy, HP or trim...take you pick of one or more. If the wire is laying over by more than a couple of degrees, something is wrong. Engineers sometimes spend weeks with clients analyzing an industrial application to match all the variables. On the other hand, for general shop use the cost is no real concern and no brush manufacturer makes any money on that family of products. |
#18
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
On Nov 18, 1:22 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
I've found the best way to sell more brushes is to just keep my mouth shut! If you're reversing a brush, it is not the right brush, speed, alloy, HP or trim...take you pick of one or more. If the wire is laying over by more than a couple of degrees, something is wrong. Engineers sometimes spend weeks with clients analyzing an industrial application to match all the variables. On the other hand, for general shop use the cost is no real concern and no brush manufacturer makes any money on that family of products. Is there some place that describes the variables and how to select a wire brush. How many different wire brushes ( Short of the answer you really want to give of thousands ) could a home shop justify having. How about a commercial shop? In a commercial shop, is it really worthwhile to do some sort of maintenance on wire brushes? If a home shop is only going to have one wire brush, what should it be? Dan |
#19
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
"Karl Townsend" wrote in message anews.com... ... right set-up will last hundreds of hours. (PS...I sell to McMaster) McMaster is one of my favorite vendors. How are they as a customer? The reason I ask, I know of at at least two examples where a good vendor is a terrible customer: 1. Walmart, 2. The Produce Distributor for my area Karl They pay on time, don't make unrealistic demands and they are understanding if there is a snafu. My favorite Wal-Mart story is from my friends at Milwaukee brush getting a call from the Wal-Mart buyer complaining of a shortage demanding a check. My friend finally explained that the shipment hadn't left yet. |
#20
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Nov 18, 1:22 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote: I've found the best way to sell more brushes is to just keep my mouth shut! If you're reversing a brush, it is not the right brush, speed, alloy, HP or trim...take you pick of one or more. If the wire is laying over by more than a couple of degrees, something is wrong. Engineers sometimes spend weeks with clients analyzing an industrial application to match all the variables. On the other hand, for general shop use the cost is no real concern and no brush manufacturer makes any money on that family of products. Is there some place that describes the variables and how to select a wire brush. How many different wire brushes ( Short of the answer you really want to give of thousands ) could a home shop justify having. How about a commercial shop? In a commercial shop, is it really worthwhile to do some sort of maintenance on wire brushes? If a home shop is only going to have one wire brush, what should it be? Dan I have an older "Weiler Brush" catalog that has a number of pages about applications, surface-feet per minute, horsepower, alloy and all the other variables. I haven't found it on-line, I'll have to check a new catalog for it...it's brilliant! A home shop could justify a fine (.006"), medium(.014) and coarse(.020) but a medium would do 80% of everything. For the amount of work a good wheel can do, it's the cheapest tool you can buy. Next question: How do you judge quality in a wire brush? Other than buying it from you, that is. d8-) -- Ed Huntress |
#21
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
to expand on Ed's question - how would one compare in terms of life and
utility, a "high quality" wire brush (you specify what that means) and the Harbor Freight special out of balance thing that resembles a wire brush? the Harbor freight thing costs $6 to $7, the "good" one costs more - what more does it do so that those of us unsophisticated in the ways of wayward wires can justify the (presumably) higher price Next question: How do you judge quality in a wire brush? Other than buying it from you, that is. d8-) -- Ed Huntress -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#22
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
Tom Gardner wrote:
"Ted Frater" wrote in message ... snip Dont cange rotation? Id be grateful for aproper technical explanation for this. I do that regularly and it doesnt effect the life ofc the brush, in fact it extends the life. you get more work done this way. Read my last post on brush usage. Could it be that as you sell these youve a vested interest in seeing the brushes last as little as possible? Its not meant as a chriticism just an normal engineering question. I've found the best way to sell more brushes is to just keep my mouth shut! If you're reversing a brush, it is not the right brush, speed, alloy, HP or trim...take you pick of one or more. If the wire is laying over by more than a couple of degrees, something is wrong. Engineers sometimes spend weeks with clients analyzing an industrial application to match all the variables. On the other hand, for general shop use the cost is no real concern and no brush manufacturer makes any money on that family of products. Ok you sell wire brushes, however I am sorry but I have to disagree with you on theis question of reversing rotation . you can all try this simple test at home. take you 2 to 6 month old tooth brush, take a pair of sharp kitchen cissors, trim 1/8in off the bristles wether there real or nylon. then use it. youll know the difference right away. Why? because you have restored the end of ythe bristle to its original sharp square end. its that sharp ness that does the work wether its a tooth brush or your rotary wire brush. Restore that sharp edge and you restoreits cutting ability. its like sharpening any cutting tool wether its a drill,lane iron , chisel orlathe tool. Come on!! you all know a blunt tool cuts less than a sharp one. By reversing you then use the other side of the wire thats not been blunted. All cutting tools get blunt with use ,so does a wire brush. And yes, its a good enough resason to buy a new one, if you dont know how to sharpen it. |
#23
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Update on wire brushing
wrote in message ... On Nov 18, 1:22 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote: I've found the best way to sell more brushes is to just keep my mouth shut! If you're reversing a brush, it is not the right brush, speed, alloy, HP or trim...take you pick of one or more. If the wire is laying over by more than a couple of degrees, something is wrong. Engineers sometimes spend weeks with clients analyzing an industrial application to match all the variables. On the other hand, for general shop use the cost is no real concern and no brush manufacturer makes any money on that family of products. Is there some place that describes the variables and how to select a wire brush. How many different wire brushes ( Short of the answer you really want to give of thousands ) could a home shop justify having. How about a commercial shop? In a commercial shop, is it really worthwhile to do some sort of maintenance on wire brushes? If a home shop is only going to have one wire brush, what should it be? Dan I have an older "Weiler Brush" catalog that has a number of pages about applications, surface-feet per minute, horsepower, alloy and all the other variables. I haven't found it on-line, I'll have to check a new catalog for it...it's brilliant! A home shop could justify a fine (.006"), medium(.014) and coarse(.020) but a medium would do 80% of everything. For the amount of work a good wheel can do, it's the cheapest tool you can buy. |
#24
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Update on wire brushing
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:56:44 -0800, "William Noble"
wrote: to expand on Ed's question - how would one compare in terms of life and utility, a "high quality" wire brush (you specify what that means) and the Harbor Freight special out of balance thing that resembles a wire brush? the Harbor freight thing costs $6 to $7, the "good" one costs more - what more does it do so that those of us unsophisticated in the ways of wayward wires can justify the (presumably) higher price Ive used the HF cup brushes and Toms cup brushes. I wear out on average, 8 HF cup brushes for 1 of Toms. I use em to derust nasty old steel prior to welding, and de-slagging after stick welding. I dont bother buying HF brushes anymore. Toms are the best economy Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#25
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Update on wire brushing
"Ted Frater" wrote in message ... Tom Gardner wrote: "Ted Frater" wrote in message ... snip Dont cange rotation? Id be grateful for aproper technical explanation for this. I do that regularly and it doesnt effect the life ofc the brush, in fact it extends the life. you get more work done this way. Read my last post on brush usage. Could it be that as you sell these youve a vested interest in seeing the brushes last as little as possible? Its not meant as a chriticism just an normal engineering question. I've found the best way to sell more brushes is to just keep my mouth shut! If you're reversing a brush, it is not the right brush, speed, alloy, HP or trim...take you pick of one or more. If the wire is laying over by more than a couple of degrees, something is wrong. Engineers sometimes spend weeks with clients analyzing an industrial application to match all the variables. On the other hand, for general shop use the cost is no real concern and no brush manufacturer makes any money on that family of products. Ok you sell wire brushes, however I am sorry but I have to disagree with you on theis question of reversing rotation . you can all try this simple test at home. take you 2 to 6 month old tooth brush, take a pair of sharp kitchen cissors, trim 1/8in off the bristles wether there real or nylon. then use it. youll know the difference right away. Why? because you have restored the end of ythe bristle to its original sharp square end. its that sharp ness that does the work wether its a tooth brush or your rotary wire brush. Restore that sharp edge and you restoreits cutting ability. its like sharpening any cutting tool wether its a drill,lane iron , chisel orlathe tool. Come on!! you all know a blunt tool cuts less than a sharp one. By reversing you then use the other side of the wire thats not been blunted. All cutting tools get blunt with use ,so does a wire brush. And yes, its a good enough resason to buy a new one, if you dont know how to sharpen it. I don't have much access to markets that service end users so I don't have a vested interest in "selling brushes". I don't sell retail, my biggest markets are food service and industrial. If you reverse the rotation before the wire starts to lay, that's OK. What usually happens is the operator starts pushing the work harder into the brush and starts a cascade failure. It's an unconscious act. Most people under-power, under-rev and push to hard, then reverse the brush. You're bang-on with the shape of the ends of the wires, it's the edges that do the work. A good oil tempered wire brush is self-sharpening to a good degree and the wire will microfracture exposing a fresh cutting edge do to highly localized heat cycles on a molecular level in the very tips of what is basically tool steel wire. If you reverse the rotation on an oil-tempered wire brush after it has started to lay, the wire will start to break at the hub due to hysteresis. An inexpensive hard-drawn wire brush will wear smooth ends on one side of the wire instead and is not as susceptible to the hysteresis that prematurely fractures the wire that is more the equivalent of hot-rolled steel, so reversing it won't do as much damage to the molecular structure of the wire. A brush can be sharpened using a stone. You're toothbrush analogy is off base because as you shorten the trim of any brush, you change the stiffness in addition to squaring-up the ends. But, in a way you are right by reversing rotation if you only use hard-drawn wire. All imports are of this variety and they have good value for occasional or home-shop type use. If you have an oil-tempered domestic industrial type brush and the hp and speed, don't reverse it, you won't ever need to or want to. Any time you see a wire wheel that the wire is brass plated, it is made from rejected tire-cord wire. It's hard-drawn and not really brush quality, it's really, really cheap at 19 cents a pound. Good hard-drawn wire costs $1.75 a pound and good oil-tempered wire costs $3.50 a pound. Typically, a hard drawn 6" wheel sells for about $4.00 in a blister pack. An oil-tempered 6" sells for about $13.00 and a 6" knot-type for about $20. Finer wire costs more. Stainless, about double. I'd venture to guess that you use import hard-drawn wire wheels? All this applies to crimped wire wheels, knot-type wheels are a different ball game. You'd better have the hp and speed or they won't work well at all. Too much speed and they don't work right, they burnish rather than cut. Imports are all hard-drawn wire and don't work well or last long. There's a plethora of knot-type cup brushes that are imports that are just dreadfully inadequate, but they sell like hot cakes! |
#26
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Update on wire brushing
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:56:44 -0800, "William Noble" wrote: to expand on Ed's question - how would one compare in terms of life and utility, a "high quality" wire brush (you specify what that means) and the Harbor Freight special out of balance thing that resembles a wire brush? the Harbor freight thing costs $6 to $7, the "good" one costs more - what more does it do so that those of us unsophisticated in the ways of wayward wires can justify the (presumably) higher price Ive used the HF cup brushes and Toms cup brushes. I wear out on average, 8 HF cup brushes for 1 of Toms. I use em to derust nasty old steel prior to welding, and de-slagging after stick welding. I dont bother buying HF brushes anymore. Toms are the best economy Gunner ANOTHER testimonial check? |
#27
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
"William Noble" wrote in message .. . to expand on Ed's question - how would one compare in terms of life and utility, a "high quality" wire brush (you specify what that means) and the Harbor Freight special out of balance thing that resembles a wire brush? the Harbor freight thing costs $6 to $7, the "good" one costs more - what more does it do so that those of us unsophisticated in the ways of wayward wires can justify the (presumably) higher price See the explination I posted to Ted. |
#28
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:47:25 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote: "Gunner Asch" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:56:44 -0800, "William Noble" wrote: to expand on Ed's question - how would one compare in terms of life and utility, a "high quality" wire brush (you specify what that means) and the Harbor Freight special out of balance thing that resembles a wire brush? the Harbor freight thing costs $6 to $7, the "good" one costs more - what more does it do so that those of us unsophisticated in the ways of wayward wires can justify the (presumably) higher price Ive used the HF cup brushes and Toms cup brushes. I wear out on average, 8 HF cup brushes for 1 of Toms. I use em to derust nasty old steel prior to welding, and de-slagging after stick welding. I dont bother buying HF brushes anymore. Toms are the best economy Gunner ANOTHER testimonial check? Naw...just send brushes. G Wheres that UPS info? Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#29
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "Tom Gardner" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... On Nov 18, 1:22 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote: I've found the best way to sell more brushes is to just keep my mouth shut! If you're reversing a brush, it is not the right brush, speed, alloy, HP or trim...take you pick of one or more. If the wire is laying over by more than a couple of degrees, something is wrong. Engineers sometimes spend weeks with clients analyzing an industrial application to match all the variables. On the other hand, for general shop use the cost is no real concern and no brush manufacturer makes any money on that family of products. Is there some place that describes the variables and how to select a wire brush. How many different wire brushes ( Short of the answer you really want to give of thousands ) could a home shop justify having. How about a commercial shop? In a commercial shop, is it really worthwhile to do some sort of maintenance on wire brushes? If a home shop is only going to have one wire brush, what should it be? Dan I have an older "Weiler Brush" catalog that has a number of pages about applications, surface-feet per minute, horsepower, alloy and all the other variables. I haven't found it on-line, I'll have to check a new catalog for it...it's brilliant! A home shop could justify a fine (.006"), medium(.014) and coarse(.020) but a medium would do 80% of everything. For the amount of work a good wheel can do, it's the cheapest tool you can buy. Next question: How do you judge quality in a wire brush? Other than buying it from you, that is. d8-) -- Ed Huntress See the explanation I wrote to Ted a bit further in the thread. I'll try to get a transcription of Weiler's application pages, they are superb. |
#30
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
Tom, this was the most succinct post on the subject of wire
brushing. Thanks a lot. I saved it. I have decided to swap my 1/2 HP, 1750 RPM motor for a 3/4 HP, 3450 RPM motor, I will do so tonight. i |
#31
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
"Ignoramus18452" wrote in message ... Tom, this was the most succinct post on the subject of wire brushing. Thanks a lot. I saved it. I have decided to swap my 1/2 HP, 1750 RPM motor for a 3/4 HP, 3450 RPM motor, I will do so tonight. i I'll try to find an electronic format of the application and speed pages in an old Weiler catalog, great info! I did post an unclear statement about sharpening a wire wheel with a stone. I could see how I shouldn't have stated that. Done wrong, it will make things worse. The best way to sharpen a brush is to turn it in the lathe against a tool post grinder. Sometimes we grind a profile for very special applications. Good luck with your new set-up, it sounds like it will do a great job! |
#32
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
I had a nice wire brush of Toms that I wore to the metal.
I needed one and went to the welding supply - close buy and all that. That one lasted maybe a month if that. Toms lasted 2 1/2 years. The thing I noticed the 'us made' from the supply house was the wire was thinner. And that wire was not clamped in - as it came out and flung all around the work area. That isn't very nice when running it in a 4 1/2 " grinder on work. Such is life. Martin Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/ Tom Gardner wrote: "Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:56:44 -0800, "William Noble" wrote: to expand on Ed's question - how would one compare in terms of life and utility, a "high quality" wire brush (you specify what that means) and the Harbor Freight special out of balance thing that resembles a wire brush? the Harbor freight thing costs $6 to $7, the "good" one costs more - what more does it do so that those of us unsophisticated in the ways of wayward wires can justify the (presumably) higher price Ive used the HF cup brushes and Toms cup brushes. I wear out on average, 8 HF cup brushes for 1 of Toms. I use em to derust nasty old steel prior to welding, and de-slagging after stick welding. I dont bother buying HF brushes anymore. Toms are the best economy Gunner ANOTHER testimonial check? ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#33
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Update on wire brushing
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:45:07 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking, "Tom
Gardner" wrote, basically tool steel wire. If you reverse the rotation on an oil-tempered wire brush after it has started to lay, the wire will start to break at the hub due to hysteresis. And also because it makes the wire bend backwards at the point it's already bent. |
#34
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:11:33 GMT, Winston
wrote: beecrofter wrote: On Nov 16, 9:24 am, Ignoramus11967 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM. 11967.invalid wrote: (...) FWIW those blocks of abrasive used to clean a diamond wheel do a bang up job of "sharpening" a wire wheel and making it cut better. That makes me wonder if I ran the wire wheel in reverse against one of those blocks, would I get a 'sharper' wire wheel? I don't usually bother with something so simple, but for one reason or another I read the instructions on the last wire wheel I bought, and they suggested flipping the wheel every so often to take advantage of the "self-sharpening" action. Seems sensible enough to me. And another FWIW- rather than taking up a side on my grinder, I've found that sticking the wire wheel (and buffing wheels) on an arbor and mounting in a jacob's chuck on the (wood) lathe works pretty well. Gotta have a lathe to do that, but it leads to some very useful things, especially if you're cleaning or buffing large parts, and can use the tool rest for support. |
#35
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on wire brushing
Prometheus wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:11:33 GMT, Winston wrote: beecrofter wrote: On Nov 16, 9:24 am, Ignoramus11967 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM. 11967.invalid wrote: (...) FWIW those blocks of abrasive used to clean a diamond wheel do a bang up job of "sharpening" a wire wheel and making it cut better. That makes me wonder if I ran the wire wheel in reverse against one of those blocks, would I get a 'sharper' wire wheel? I don't usually bother with something so simple, but for one reason or another I read the instructions on the last wire wheel I bought, and they suggested flipping the wheel every so often to take advantage of the "self-sharpening" action. Seems sensible enough to me. And another FWIW- rather than taking up a side on my grinder, I've found that sticking the wire wheel (and buffing wheels) on an arbor and mounting in a jacob's chuck on the (wood) lathe works pretty well. Gotta have a lathe to do that, but it leads to some very useful things, especially if you're cleaning or buffing large parts, and can use the tool rest for support. Also, I use my drill press with wire or buffing wheels on an arbor. If I am careful to prevent the wheel from grabbing the near edge of an object, I can get a good look at what I'm doing (with suitable face protection of course). --Winston |
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