My older flat wheel wire brush from Menards was vibrating rather
wildly on my 1/2 HP motor. So a few days ago I asked a bunch of
questions about wire brushing, hoping to improve my situation.

Here's the outcome. I bought a 8" fine wire bruch from McMaster, item
4840A48. Also bought one extra motor arbor adaptor.

After replacing the previous brush and previous adapter with both new
brush and a new adapter, the difference is huge. The motor no longer
vibrates, the noise is gone, and it is all smooth and quiet.

I believe that 1/2 horsepower is fine for this fine bristle brush,
because the manual says do not press too much on it when brushing. If
I do not press too hard, then the motor keeps up with speed just
fine. This is a 50 year old Peerless motor that cost me just $2 (IIRC)
and if I can use it, I will be happy.

What I use this brush for, is I clean various gunky or slightly rusty
things.

i

On 2007-11-16, SteveB wrote:

ANY time you get a lot of vibration, whether a stationary piece of machinery
or hand held, it is a red flag. Something is out of balance, something is
off center, or just not right. You did the right thing checking it out
before it wound up in your forehead or somewhere that would have really hurt
you. ;-)


In fact, I was stupid and should have stopped a lot earlier. You are
100% right.

i

"Ignoramus11967" wrote in message
...
My older flat wheel wire brush from Menards was vibrating rather
wildly on my 1/2 HP motor. So a few days ago I asked a bunch of
questions about wire brushing, hoping to improve my situation.

Here's the outcome. I bought a 8" fine wire bruch from McMaster, item
4840A48. Also bought one extra motor arbor adaptor.

After replacing the previous brush and previous adapter with both new
brush and a new adapter, the difference is huge. The motor no longer
vibrates, the noise is gone, and it is all smooth and quiet.

I believe that 1/2 horsepower is fine for this fine bristle brush,
because the manual says do not press too much on it when brushing. If
I do not press too hard, then the motor keeps up with speed just
fine. This is a 50 year old Peerless motor that cost me just $2 (IIRC)
and if I can use it, I will be happy.

What I use this brush for, is I clean various gunky or slightly rusty
things.

i

ANY time you get a lot of vibration, whether a stationary piece of machinery
or hand held, it is a red flag. Something is out of balance, something is
off center, or just not right. You did the right thing checking it out
before it wound up in your forehead or somewhere that would have really hurt
you. ;-)

Steve

On Nov 16, 9:24 am, Ignoramus11967 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11967.invalid wrote:
My older flat wheel wire brush from Menards was vibrating rather
wildly on my 1/2 HP motor. So a few days ago I asked a bunch of
questions about wire brushing, hoping to improve my situation.

Here's the outcome. I bought a 8" fine wire bruch from McMaster, item
4840A48. Also bought one extra motor arbor adaptor.

After replacing the previous brush and previous adapter with both new
brush and a new adapter, the difference is huge. The motor no longer
vibrates, the noise is gone, and it is all smooth and quiet.

I believe that 1/2 horsepower is fine for this fine bristle brush,
because the manual says do not press too much on it when brushing. If
I do not press too hard, then the motor keeps up with speed just
fine. This is a 50 year old Peerless motor that cost me just $2 (IIRC)
and if I can use it, I will be happy.

What I use this brush for, is I clean various gunky or slightly rusty
things.

i

FWIW those blocks of abrasive used to clean a diamond wheel do a bang
up job of "sharpening" a wire wheel and making it cut better.

beecrofter wrote:
On Nov 16, 9:24 am, Ignoramus11967 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11967.invalid wrote:

(...)

FWIW those blocks of abrasive used to clean a diamond wheel do a bang
up job of "sharpening" a wire wheel and making it cut better.

That makes me wonder if I ran the wire wheel in reverse against one of
those blocks, would I get a 'sharper' wire wheel?

--Winston

Winston wrote:
beecrofter wrote:

On Nov 16, 9:24 am, Ignoramus11967 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11967.invalid wrote:

(...)


FWIW those blocks of abrasive used to clean a diamond wheel do a bang
up job of "sharpening" a wire wheel and making it cut better.


That makes me wonder if I ran the wire wheel in reverse against one of
those blocks, would I get a 'sharper' wire wheel?

--Winston

I need to wire brush lots of rusty items as well, so ive done a no of
things to improve my motor driven round wire brushes.

1. as the wires wear, if you look closely at a wire you will see it had
become taperd at an angle to the wire.
2. also the wirestend to bend backwards from the direction of rotation.
3.You can improve the brushing action by taking the wheel off the
arbour and putting it back on so it runs the other way.
This will work for a while till thewires wear once again back to 2. above.
4. Now a much more drastic way of restoring your wire brush is to take
it off the arbour and take it over to your bench grinder.

Offer up the wheel side on to the grinding wheel to effectively square
up the wire ends.
This will restore the wheel to what it cut like when it was new., as
the wires are in fact guillotined square when made..
Now as the wires get shorter you will find that they get more aggesive
in their cleaning action if youfollow 4. above,
So the trick is to have several wire brushes, some with short wires
for heavy cleaning and some newonesfor final burnishing.,
For someof my production work I use a very fine steel wire brush, wire
thicknessof 10./1000 in
Perfect for burnishing say a minted plaque without destroying the detail
thereon
I run this wire brush against a 120 grit broken grinding wheel. this
cleanes the wires and makes them slightly rough. this works wonderson
brass bronze ,silver etc.
Rotation speed is also an important variable.
A say 6in wheel running at 3000 rpm cuts well the same wheel at 500
rpm has quite a different action and finish.
Dependson what you want.

Hope this helps.
Brushing is a long forgotten process in a silversmiths workshop
Canning published a book on wire and all sorts of other brushing wheels,
treatmentsetc. Published about 1940.
For example one technique for preparing nickel silver for plating is to
use abristlebrush with a drip feed of water and pumice powder . This has
the scouring action of your kitchn sink cleaner. This is used with
aguard to keepcthewater and pumice out of your face etc!!.
Aword of caution, wire brushing wheels shed wires.
Always wear eye protection shields. and riggers gloves if your
pressing hard. Wire wheels take off skin very fast.

"Ignoramus11967" wrote in message
...
My older flat wheel wire brush from Menards was vibrating rather
wildly on my 1/2 HP motor. So a few days ago I asked a bunch of
questions about wire brushing, hoping to improve my situation.

Here's the outcome. I bought a 8" fine wire bruch from McMaster, item
4840A48. Also bought one extra motor arbor adaptor.

After replacing the previous brush and previous adapter with both new
brush and a new adapter, the difference is huge. The motor no longer
vibrates, the noise is gone, and it is all smooth and quiet.

I believe that 1/2 horsepower is fine for this fine bristle brush,
because the manual says do not press too much on it when brushing. If
I do not press too hard, then the motor keeps up with speed just
fine. This is a 50 year old Peerless motor that cost me just $2 (IIRC)
and if I can use it, I will be happy.

What I use this brush for, is I clean various gunky or slightly rusty
things.

From what I've seen in periodic browsings through the tool section in the
Menards near me, they seem to sell just about the cheapest tools on the
market and I try to limit my purchases there to stuff that isn't safety
critical or needed for more than a use or two.

Mike

On 2007-11-17, Mike Henry wrote:
From what I've seen in periodic browsings through the tool section in the
Menards near me, they seem to sell just about the cheapest tools on the
market and I try to limit my purchases there to stuff that isn't safety
critical or needed for more than a use or two.

I have finally come to the same conclusion. McMaster price is not much
greater and the quality is much better.

i

"beecrofter" wrote in message
...
On Nov 16, 9:24 am, Ignoramus11967 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11967.invalid wrote:
My older flat wheel wire brush from Menards was vibrating rather
wildly on my 1/2 HP motor. So a few days ago I asked a bunch of
questions about wire brushing, hoping to improve my situation.

Here's the outcome. I bought a 8" fine wire bruch from McMaster, item
4840A48. Also bought one extra motor arbor adaptor.

After replacing the previous brush and previous adapter with both new
brush and a new adapter, the difference is huge. The motor no longer
vibrates, the noise is gone, and it is all smooth and quiet.

I believe that 1/2 horsepower is fine for this fine bristle brush,
because the manual says do not press too much on it when brushing. If
I do not press too hard, then the motor keeps up with speed just
fine. This is a 50 year old Peerless motor that cost me just $2 (IIRC)
and if I can use it, I will be happy.

What I use this brush for, is I clean various gunky or slightly rusty
things.

i

FWIW those blocks of abrasive used to clean a diamond wheel do a bang
up job of "sharpening" a wire wheel and making it cut better.

Shush! Nobody's supposed to know that. The usual method of using wire
wheels is to press the workpiece harder into the under-powered,
under-revved, wrong trim length, wrong wire size, wrong diameter, wrong
width wire wheel. I'm convinced that less than 1% of people use a wire
wheel properly and I want to keep it that way! You're supposed to use a
brush once, destroy it and throw it away...then go buy a new one.

On 2007-11-17, Tom Gardner wrote:

Shush! Nobody's supposed to know that. The usual method of using wire
wheels is to press the workpiece harder into the under-powered,
under-revved, wrong trim length, wrong wire size, wrong diameter, wrong
width wire wheel. I'm convinced that less than 1% of people use a wire
wheel properly and I want to keep it that way! You're supposed to use a
brush once, destroy it and throw it away...then go buy a new one.

Tom, what would be a proper HP and RPM for a 8", 3/4" wide wire wheel?

i

"Ignoramus11967" wrote in message
...
On 2007-11-17, Tom Gardner wrote:

Shush! Nobody's supposed to know that. The usual method of using wire
wheels is to press the workpiece harder into the under-powered,
under-revved, wrong trim length, wrong wire size, wrong diameter, wrong
width wire wheel. I'm convinced that less than 1% of people use a wire
wheel properly and I want to keep it that way! You're supposed to use a
brush once, destroy it and throw it away...then go buy a new one.

Tom, what would be a proper HP and RPM for a 8", 3/4" wide wire wheel?

i

What wire size? What trim? EG. my shop brush is 10" x 2" x .014" wire x 3"
trim and it's on a 2-1/2 HP (maybe a bit over-kill) 3600 rpm. An 8" x 3/4"
x .014" oil-tempered wire at 4500 rpm (or about 75% MSFS) with at least 1 hp
is a good GP set-up for most anything you will want to do. If it slows much
under load, not good. If you find you're pushing the work, not good, only
the wire tips do the work. DON'T CHANGE ROTATION!!! = early death! The
right set-up will last hundreds of hours. (PS...I sell to McMaster)

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Ignoramus11967" wrote in message
...

On 2007-11-17, Tom Gardner wrote:

Shush! Nobody's supposed to know that. The usual method of using wire
wheels is to press the workpiece harder into the under-powered,
under-revved, wrong trim length, wrong wire size, wrong diameter, wrong
width wire wheel. I'm convinced that less than 1% of people use a wire
wheel properly and I want to keep it that way! You're supposed to use a
brush once, destroy it and throw it away...then go buy a new one.

Tom, what would be a proper HP and RPM for a 8", 3/4" wide wire wheel?

i


What wire size? What trim? EG. my shop brush is 10" x 2" x .014" wire x 3"
trim and it's on a 2-1/2 HP (maybe a bit over-kill) 3600 rpm. An 8" x 3/4"
x .014" oil-tempered wire at 4500 rpm (or about 75% MSFS) with at least 1 hp
is a good GP set-up for most anything you will want to do. If it slows much
under load, not good. If you find you're pushing the work, not good, only
the wire tips do the work. DON'T CHANGE ROTATION!!! = early death! The
right set-up will last hundreds of hours. (PS...I sell to McMaster)


Dont cange rotation? Id be grateful for aproper technical explanation
for this.

I do that regularly and it doesnt effect the life ofc the brush, in fact
it extends the life. you get more work done this way.
Read my last post on brush usage.
Could it be that as you sell these youve a vested interest in seeing
the brushes last as little as possible?
Its not meant as a chriticism just an normal engineering question.

....
right set-up will last hundreds of hours. (PS...I sell to McMaster)

McMaster is one of my favorite vendors. How are they as a customer?

The reason I ask, I know of at at least two examples where a good vendor is
a terrible customer: 1. Walmart, 2. The Produce Distributor for my area

Karl

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 04:42:47 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Tom
Gardner" quickly quoth:

"beecrofter" wrote in message
...

FWIW those blocks of abrasive used to clean a diamond wheel do a bang
up job of "sharpening" a wire wheel and making it cut better.

Shush! Nobody's supposed to know that. The usual method of using wire
wheels is to press the workpiece harder into the under-powered,

Can you say "porcupine"? I knew you could.


under-revved, wrong trim length, wrong wire size, wrong diameter, wrong
width wire wheel. I'm convinced that less than 1% of people use a wire
wheel properly and I want to keep it that way! You're supposed to use a
brush once, destroy it and throw it away...then go buy a new one.

But your brushes can be mishandled like that and keep on ticking,
right? No wonder you get the big bucks.

--
After all, it is those who have a deep and real inner life who
are best able to deal with the irritating details of outer life.
-- Evelyn Underhill

On 2007-11-17, Tom Gardner wrote:

"Ignoramus11967" wrote in message
...
On 2007-11-17, Tom Gardner wrote:

Shush! Nobody's supposed to know that. The usual method of using wire
wheels is to press the workpiece harder into the under-powered,
under-revved, wrong trim length, wrong wire size, wrong diameter, wrong
width wire wheel. I'm convinced that less than 1% of people use a wire
wheel properly and I want to keep it that way! You're supposed to use a
brush once, destroy it and throw it away...then go buy a new one.

Tom, what would be a proper HP and RPM for a 8", 3/4" wide wire wheel?

i

What wire size? What trim? EG. my shop brush is 10" x 2" x .014" wire x 3"
trim and it's on a 2-1/2 HP (maybe a bit over-kill) 3600 rpm. An 8" x 3/4"
x .014" oil-tempered wire at 4500 rpm (or about 75% MSFS) with at least 1 hp
is a good GP set-up for most anything you will want to do. If it slows much
under load, not good. If you find you're pushing the work, not good, only
the wire tips do the work. DON'T CHANGE ROTATION!!! = early death! The
right set-up will last hundreds of hours. (PS...I sell to McMaster)


Tom, the brush is McMaster item 4840A48. I doubt that I have a 1 HP
3450 RPM motor, but these are not hard to come across, so I will keep
looking. I currently use a 1/2 HP motor.

i

On 2007-11-17, Karl Townsend wrote:
...
right set-up will last hundreds of hours. (PS...I sell to McMaster)

McMaster is one of my favorite vendors. How are they as a customer?

The reason I ask, I know of at at least two examples where a good vendor is
a terrible customer: 1. Walmart, 2. The Produce Distributor for my area

Walmart is not a good vendor. Most of their things that I bought,
lately, broke very soon under regular use.

i

"Ted Frater" wrote in message
...
snip
Dont cange rotation? Id be grateful for aproper technical explanation for
this.

I do that regularly and it doesnt effect the life ofc the brush, in fact
it extends the life. you get more work done this way.
Read my last post on brush usage.
Could it be that as you sell these youve a vested interest in seeing the
brushes last as little as possible?
Its not meant as a chriticism just an normal engineering question.

I've found the best way to sell more brushes is to just keep my mouth shut!

If you're reversing a brush, it is not the right brush, speed, alloy, HP or
trim...take you pick of one or more. If the wire is laying over by more
than a couple of degrees, something is wrong. Engineers sometimes spend
weeks with clients analyzing an industrial application to match all the
variables. On the other hand, for general shop use the cost is no real
concern and no brush manufacturer makes any money on that family of
products.

On Nov 18, 1:22 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:

I've found the best way to sell more brushes is to just keep my mouth shut!

If you're reversing a brush, it is not the right brush, speed, alloy, HP or
trim...take you pick of one or more. If the wire is laying over by more
than a couple of degrees, something is wrong. Engineers sometimes spend
weeks with clients analyzing an industrial application to match all the
variables. On the other hand, for general shop use the cost is no real
concern and no brush manufacturer makes any money on that family of
products.

Is there some place that describes the variables and how to select a
wire brush.
How many different wire brushes ( Short of the answer you really want
to give of thousands ) could a home shop justify having. How about a
commercial shop?
In a commercial shop, is it really worthwhile to do some sort of
maintenance on wire brushes? If a home shop is only going to have one
wire brush, what should it be?

Dan

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
...
right set-up will last hundreds of hours. (PS...I sell to McMaster)

McMaster is one of my favorite vendors. How are they as a customer?

The reason I ask, I know of at at least two examples where a good vendor
is a terrible customer: 1. Walmart, 2. The Produce Distributor for my area

Karl



They pay on time, don't make unrealistic demands and they are understanding
if there is a snafu.

My favorite Wal-Mart story is from my friends at Milwaukee brush getting a
call from the Wal-Mart buyer complaining of a shortage demanding a check.
My friend finally explained that the shipment hadn't left yet.

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Nov 18, 1:22 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:

I've found the best way to sell more brushes is to just keep my mouth
shut!

If you're reversing a brush, it is not the right brush, speed, alloy, HP
or
trim...take you pick of one or more. If the wire is laying over by more
than a couple of degrees, something is wrong. Engineers sometimes spend
weeks with clients analyzing an industrial application to match all the
variables. On the other hand, for general shop use the cost is no real
concern and no brush manufacturer makes any money on that family of
products.

Is there some place that describes the variables and how to select a
wire brush.
How many different wire brushes ( Short of the answer you really want
to give of thousands ) could a home shop justify having. How about a
commercial shop?
In a commercial shop, is it really worthwhile to do some sort of
maintenance on wire brushes? If a home shop is only going to have one
wire brush, what should it be?

Dan


I have an older "Weiler Brush" catalog that has a number of pages about
applications, surface-feet per minute, horsepower, alloy and all the other
variables. I haven't found it on-line, I'll have to check a new catalog
for it...it's brilliant!

A home shop could justify a fine (.006"), medium(.014) and coarse(.020)
but a medium would do 80% of everything. For the amount of work a good
wheel can do, it's the cheapest tool you can buy.

Next question: How do you judge quality in a wire brush? Other than buying
it from you, that is. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

to expand on Ed's question - how would one compare in terms of life and
utility, a "high quality" wire brush (you specify what that means) and the
Harbor Freight special out of balance thing that resembles a wire brush?
the Harbor freight thing costs $6 to $7, the "good" one costs more - what
more does it do so that those of us unsophisticated in the ways of wayward
wires can justify the (presumably) higher price

Next question: How do you judge quality in a wire brush? Other than buying
it from you, that is. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Tom Gardner wrote:
"Ted Frater" wrote in message
...
snip

Dont cange rotation? Id be grateful for aproper technical explanation for
this.

I do that regularly and it doesnt effect the life ofc the brush, in fact
it extends the life. you get more work done this way.
Read my last post on brush usage.
Could it be that as you sell these youve a vested interest in seeing the
brushes last as little as possible?
Its not meant as a chriticism just an normal engineering question.


I've found the best way to sell more brushes is to just keep my mouth shut!

If you're reversing a brush, it is not the right brush, speed, alloy, HP or
trim...take you pick of one or more. If the wire is laying over by more
than a couple of degrees, something is wrong. Engineers sometimes spend
weeks with clients analyzing an industrial application to match all the
variables. On the other hand, for general shop use the cost is no real
concern and no brush manufacturer makes any money on that family of
products.



Ok you sell wire brushes,
however I am sorry but I have to disagree with you on theis question of
reversing rotation .
you can all try this simple test at home.
take you 2 to 6 month old tooth brush,
take a pair of sharp kitchen cissors,
trim 1/8in off the bristles wether there real or nylon.
then use it.
youll know the difference right away.
Why?
because you have restored the end of ythe bristle to its original
sharp square end.
its that sharp ness that does the work wether its a tooth brush or
your rotary wire brush.
Restore that sharp edge and you restoreits cutting ability.
its like sharpening any cutting tool wether its a drill,lane iron ,
chisel orlathe tool.
Come on!! you all know a blunt tool cuts less than a sharp one.
By reversing you then use the other side of the wire thats not been blunted.
All cutting tools get blunt with use ,so does a wire brush.
And yes, its a good enough resason to buy a new one, if you dont know
how to sharpen it.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 18, 1:22 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:

I've found the best way to sell more brushes is to just keep my mouth
shut!

If you're reversing a brush, it is not the right brush, speed, alloy, HP
or
trim...take you pick of one or more. If the wire is laying over by more
than a couple of degrees, something is wrong. Engineers sometimes spend
weeks with clients analyzing an industrial application to match all the
variables. On the other hand, for general shop use the cost is no real
concern and no brush manufacturer makes any money on that family of
products.

Is there some place that describes the variables and how to select a
wire brush.
How many different wire brushes ( Short of the answer you really want
to give of thousands ) could a home shop justify having. How about a
commercial shop?
In a commercial shop, is it really worthwhile to do some sort of
maintenance on wire brushes? If a home shop is only going to have one
wire brush, what should it be?

Dan


I have an older "Weiler Brush" catalog that has a number of pages about
applications, surface-feet per minute, horsepower, alloy and all the other
variables. I haven't found it on-line, I'll have to check a new catalog for
it...it's brilliant!

A home shop could justify a fine (.006"), medium(.014) and coarse(.020) but
a medium would do 80% of everything. For the amount of work a good wheel
can do, it's the cheapest tool you can buy.

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:56:44 -0800, "William Noble"
wrote:

to expand on Ed's question - how would one compare in terms of life and
utility, a "high quality" wire brush (you specify what that means) and the
Harbor Freight special out of balance thing that resembles a wire brush?
the Harbor freight thing costs $6 to $7, the "good" one costs more - what
more does it do so that those of us unsophisticated in the ways of wayward
wires can justify the (presumably) higher price


Ive used the HF cup brushes and Toms cup brushes.

I wear out on average, 8 HF cup brushes for 1 of Toms.

I use em to derust nasty old steel prior to welding, and de-slagging
after stick welding.

I dont bother buying HF brushes anymore. Toms are the best economy

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Ted Frater" wrote in message
...
Tom Gardner wrote:
"Ted Frater" wrote in message
...
snip

Dont cange rotation? Id be grateful for aproper technical explanation for
this.

I do that regularly and it doesnt effect the life ofc the brush, in fact
it extends the life. you get more work done this way.
Read my last post on brush usage.
Could it be that as you sell these youve a vested interest in seeing the
brushes last as little as possible?
Its not meant as a chriticism just an normal engineering question.


I've found the best way to sell more brushes is to just keep my mouth
shut!

If you're reversing a brush, it is not the right brush, speed, alloy, HP
or trim...take you pick of one or more. If the wire is laying over by
more than a couple of degrees, something is wrong. Engineers sometimes
spend weeks with clients analyzing an industrial application to match all
the variables. On the other hand, for general shop use the cost is no
real concern and no brush manufacturer makes any money on that family of
products.

Ok you sell wire brushes,
however I am sorry but I have to disagree with you on theis question of
reversing rotation .
you can all try this simple test at home.
take you 2 to 6 month old tooth brush,
take a pair of sharp kitchen cissors,
trim 1/8in off the bristles wether there real or nylon.
then use it.
youll know the difference right away.
Why?
because you have restored the end of ythe bristle to its original sharp
square end.
its that sharp ness that does the work wether its a tooth brush or your
rotary wire brush.
Restore that sharp edge and you restoreits cutting ability.
its like sharpening any cutting tool wether its a drill,lane iron ,
chisel orlathe tool.
Come on!! you all know a blunt tool cuts less than a sharp one.
By reversing you then use the other side of the wire thats not been
blunted.
All cutting tools get blunt with use ,so does a wire brush.
And yes, its a good enough resason to buy a new one, if you dont know how
to sharpen it.


I don't have much access to markets that service end users so I don't have a
vested interest in "selling brushes". I don't sell retail, my biggest
markets are food service and industrial.

If you reverse the rotation before the wire starts to lay, that's OK. What
usually happens is the operator starts pushing the work harder into the
brush and starts a cascade failure. It's an unconscious act. Most people
under-power, under-rev and push to hard, then reverse the brush. You're
bang-on with the shape of the ends of the wires, it's the edges that do the
work. A good oil tempered wire brush is self-sharpening to a good degree
and the wire will microfracture exposing a fresh cutting edge do to highly
localized heat cycles on a molecular level in the very tips of what is
basically tool steel wire. If you reverse the rotation on an oil-tempered
wire brush after it has started to lay, the wire will start to break at the
hub due to hysteresis. An inexpensive hard-drawn wire brush will wear
smooth ends on one side of the wire instead and is not as susceptible to the
hysteresis that prematurely fractures the wire that is more the equivalent
of hot-rolled steel, so reversing it won't do as much damage to the
molecular structure of the wire. A brush can be sharpened using a stone.

You're toothbrush analogy is off base because as you shorten the trim of any
brush, you change the stiffness in addition to squaring-up the ends. But, in
a way you are right by reversing rotation if you only use hard-drawn wire.
All imports are of this variety and they have good value for occasional or
home-shop type use. If you have an oil-tempered domestic industrial type
brush and the hp and speed, don't reverse it, you won't ever need to or want
to. Any time you see a wire wheel that the wire is brass plated, it is made
from rejected tire-cord wire. It's hard-drawn and not really brush quality,
it's really, really cheap at 19 cents a pound. Good hard-drawn wire costs
$1.75 a pound and good oil-tempered wire costs $3.50 a pound. Typically, a
hard drawn 6" wheel sells for about $4.00 in a blister pack. An
oil-tempered 6" sells for about $13.00 and a 6" knot-type for about $20.
Finer wire costs more. Stainless, about double. I'd venture to guess that
you use import hard-drawn wire wheels?

All this applies to crimped wire wheels, knot-type wheels are a different
ball game. You'd better have the hp and speed or they won't work well at
all. Too much speed and they don't work right, they burnish rather than
cut. Imports are all hard-drawn wire and don't work well or last long.
There's a plethora of knot-type cup brushes that are imports that are just
dreadfully inadequate, but they sell like hot cakes!

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:56:44 -0800, "William Noble"
wrote:

to expand on Ed's question - how would one compare in terms of life and
utility, a "high quality" wire brush (you specify what that means) and the
Harbor Freight special out of balance thing that resembles a wire brush?
the Harbor freight thing costs $6 to $7, the "good" one costs more - what
more does it do so that those of us unsophisticated in the ways of wayward
wires can justify the (presumably) higher price


Ive used the HF cup brushes and Toms cup brushes.

I wear out on average, 8 HF cup brushes for 1 of Toms.

I use em to derust nasty old steel prior to welding, and de-slagging
after stick welding.

I dont bother buying HF brushes anymore. Toms are the best economy

Gunner


ANOTHER testimonial check?

"William Noble" wrote in message
.. .
to expand on Ed's question - how would one compare in terms of life and
utility, a "high quality" wire brush (you specify what that means) and the
Harbor Freight special out of balance thing that resembles a wire brush?
the Harbor freight thing costs $6 to $7, the "good" one costs more - what
more does it do so that those of us unsophisticated in the ways of wayward
wires can justify the (presumably) higher price

See the explination I posted to Ted.

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:47:25 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:56:44 -0800, "William Noble"
wrote:

to expand on Ed's question - how would one compare in terms of life and
utility, a "high quality" wire brush (you specify what that means) and the
Harbor Freight special out of balance thing that resembles a wire brush?
the Harbor freight thing costs $6 to $7, the "good" one costs more - what
more does it do so that those of us unsophisticated in the ways of wayward
wires can justify the (presumably) higher price


Ive used the HF cup brushes and Toms cup brushes.

I wear out on average, 8 HF cup brushes for 1 of Toms.

I use em to derust nasty old steel prior to welding, and de-slagging
after stick welding.

I dont bother buying HF brushes anymore. Toms are the best economy

Gunner


ANOTHER testimonial check?

Naw...just send brushes.

G

Wheres that UPS info?

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Nov 18, 1:22 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:

I've found the best way to sell more brushes is to just keep my mouth
shut!

If you're reversing a brush, it is not the right brush, speed, alloy,
HP or
trim...take you pick of one or more. If the wire is laying over by
more
than a couple of degrees, something is wrong. Engineers sometimes
spend
weeks with clients analyzing an industrial application to match all the
variables. On the other hand, for general shop use the cost is no real
concern and no brush manufacturer makes any money on that family of
products.

Is there some place that describes the variables and how to select a
wire brush.
How many different wire brushes ( Short of the answer you really want
to give of thousands ) could a home shop justify having. How about a
commercial shop?
In a commercial shop, is it really worthwhile to do some sort of
maintenance on wire brushes? If a home shop is only going to have one
wire brush, what should it be?

Dan


I have an older "Weiler Brush" catalog that has a number of pages about
applications, surface-feet per minute, horsepower, alloy and all the
other variables. I haven't found it on-line, I'll have to check a new
catalog for it...it's brilliant!

A home shop could justify a fine (.006"), medium(.014) and coarse(.020)
but a medium would do 80% of everything. For the amount of work a good
wheel can do, it's the cheapest tool you can buy.

Next question: How do you judge quality in a wire brush? Other than buying
it from you, that is. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress


See the explanation I wrote to Ted a bit further in the thread. I'll try to
get a transcription of Weiler's application pages, they are superb.

Tom, this was the most succinct post on the subject of wire
brushing. Thanks a lot. I saved it. I have decided to swap my 1/2 HP,
1750 RPM motor for a 3/4 HP, 3450 RPM motor, I will do so tonight.

i

"Ignoramus18452" wrote in message
...
Tom, this was the most succinct post on the subject of wire
brushing. Thanks a lot. I saved it. I have decided to swap my 1/2 HP,
1750 RPM motor for a 3/4 HP, 3450 RPM motor, I will do so tonight.

i

I'll try to find an electronic format of the application and speed pages in
an old Weiler catalog, great info! I did post an unclear statement about
sharpening a wire wheel with a stone. I could see how I shouldn't have
stated that. Done wrong, it will make things worse. The best way to
sharpen a brush is to turn it in the lathe against a tool post grinder.
Sometimes we grind a profile for very special applications. Good luck with
your new set-up, it sounds like it will do a great job!

I had a nice wire brush of Toms that I wore to the metal.
I needed one and went to the welding supply - close buy and all that.
That one lasted maybe a month if that. Toms lasted 2 1/2 years. The
thing I noticed the 'us made' from the supply house was the wire was thinner.
And that wire was not clamped in - as it came out and flung all around the
work area. That isn't very nice when running it in a 4 1/2 " grinder on
work.

Such is life.

Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Tom Gardner wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:56:44 -0800, "William Noble"
wrote:

to expand on Ed's question - how would one compare in terms of life and
utility, a "high quality" wire brush (you specify what that means) and the
Harbor Freight special out of balance thing that resembles a wire brush?
the Harbor freight thing costs $6 to $7, the "good" one costs more - what
more does it do so that those of us unsophisticated in the ways of wayward
wires can justify the (presumably) higher price

Ive used the HF cup brushes and Toms cup brushes.

I wear out on average, 8 HF cup brushes for 1 of Toms.

I use em to derust nasty old steel prior to welding, and de-slagging
after stick welding.

I dont bother buying HF brushes anymore. Toms are the best economy

Gunner


ANOTHER testimonial check?



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On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:45:07 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking, "Tom
Gardner" wrote,
basically tool steel wire. If you reverse the rotation on an oil-tempered
wire brush after it has started to lay, the wire will start to break at the hub due to hysteresis.

And also because it makes the wire bend backwards at the point it's
already bent.

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:11:33 GMT, Winston
wrote:

beecrofter wrote:
On Nov 16, 9:24 am, Ignoramus11967 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11967.invalid wrote:

(...)

FWIW those blocks of abrasive used to clean a diamond wheel do a bang
up job of "sharpening" a wire wheel and making it cut better.

That makes me wonder if I ran the wire wheel in reverse against one of
those blocks, would I get a 'sharper' wire wheel?

I don't usually bother with something so simple, but for one reason or
another I read the instructions on the last wire wheel I bought, and
they suggested flipping the wheel every so often to take advantage of
the "self-sharpening" action. Seems sensible enough to me.

And another FWIW- rather than taking up a side on my grinder, I've
found that sticking the wire wheel (and buffing wheels) on an arbor
and mounting in a jacob's chuck on the (wood) lathe works pretty well.
Gotta have a lathe to do that, but it leads to some very useful
things, especially if you're cleaning or buffing large parts, and can
use the tool rest for support.

Prometheus wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:11:33 GMT, Winston
wrote:


beecrofter wrote:

On Nov 16, 9:24 am, Ignoramus11967 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11967.invalid wrote:


(...)

FWIW those blocks of abrasive used to clean a diamond wheel do a bang
up job of "sharpening" a wire wheel and making it cut better.

That makes me wonder if I ran the wire wheel in reverse against one of
those blocks, would I get a 'sharper' wire wheel?


I don't usually bother with something so simple, but for one reason or
another I read the instructions on the last wire wheel I bought, and
they suggested flipping the wheel every so often to take advantage of
the "self-sharpening" action. Seems sensible enough to me.

And another FWIW- rather than taking up a side on my grinder, I've
found that sticking the wire wheel (and buffing wheels) on an arbor
and mounting in a jacob's chuck on the (wood) lathe works pretty well.
Gotta have a lathe to do that, but it leads to some very useful
things, especially if you're cleaning or buffing large parts, and can
use the tool rest for support.

Also, I use my drill press with wire or buffing wheels on an arbor.
If I am careful to prevent the wheel from grabbing the near edge of an
object, I can get a good look at what I'm doing (with suitable face
protection of course).

--Winston