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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
Guy at work is constantly talking about this now that its getting
cold and I had the idea that the place to find someone who had done this was people with the skills to do it. What would be the point of asking office people for example how to do anything. We have acess to steel sheet from 12 ga to 3/8 thick. He can get slabs from his brother-in-laws sawmill and wants to run hot water from the outside furnace into the house. Then use radiators to warm up the place. I know that there is more to doing it than just a box to get it very efficient and thought he should find a book on how wood stoves are constructed. Anyone here with any experience at this or wood stove construction? I think I remember that if you use steel plate that it won't last as long as cast iron for some reason. ?? Rosce |
#2
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
"Butter" wrote in message ups.com... Guy at work is constantly talking about this now that its getting cold and I had the idea that the place to find someone who had done this was people with the skills to do it. What would be the point of asking office people for example how to do anything. We have acess to steel sheet from 12 ga to 3/8 thick. He can get slabs from his brother-in-laws sawmill and wants to run hot water from the outside furnace into the house. Then use radiators to warm up the place. I know that there is more to doing it than just a box to get it very efficient and thought he should find a book on how wood stoves are constructed. Anyone here with any experience at this or wood stove construction? I think I remember that if you use steel plate that it won't last as long as cast iron for some reason. ?? Rosce Where do you live, Rosce? A friend of ours had an outside wood furnace constructed last year in the mountains of eastern Pennsylvania. Apparently the guy who built it was quite an expert, with a lot of successful installations under his belt. -- Ed Huntress |
#3
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:29:15 -0700, Butter wrote:
Guy at work is constantly talking about this now that its getting cold and I had the idea that the place to find someone who had done this was people with the skills to do it. What would be the point of asking office people for example how to do anything. We have acess to steel sheet from 12 ga to 3/8 thick. He can get slabs from his brother-in-laws sawmill and wants to run hot water from the outside furnace into the house. Then use radiators to warm up the place. I know that there is more to doing it than just a box to get it very efficient and thought he should find a book on how wood stoves are constructed. Anyone here with any experience at this or wood stove construction? I think I remember that if you use steel plate that it won't last as long as cast iron for some reason. ?? Rosce You are talking about a "boiler" rather then a "stove". Normally boilers are thought of as devices to produce steam but they can equally well produce hot water and frequently are in businesses such as the food processing industry that use quantities of hot water. Bruce-in-Bangkok (Note:displayed e-mail address is a spam trap) |
#4
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
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#5
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
Butter wrote:
Guy at work is constantly talking about this now that its getting cold and I had the idea that the place to find someone who had done this was people with the skills to do it. What would be the point of asking office people for example how to do anything. We have acess to steel sheet from 12 ga to 3/8 thick. Nobody else mentione this, so I thought I should. What you are talking about is a potential BOMB! You absolutely must have proper safety controls on it so the boiler cannot ever get overheated. (I'm not sure how you do this on a wood-heated boiler.) For gas or oil, you just cut the burner off if the circulator pump quits. You might actually have to have some sort of fire-putter-outer in case of electrical outage, pump motor failure, etc. If the worst happens, you may have to just let the water out, and melt the boiler. Jon |
#6
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:29:15 -0700, Butter wrote:
Guy at work is constantly talking about this now that its getting cold and I had the idea that the place to find someone who had done this was people with the skills to do it. What would be the point of asking office people for example how to do anything. We have acess to steel sheet from 12 ga to 3/8 thick. He can get slabs from his brother-in-laws sawmill and wants to run hot water from the outside furnace into the house. Then use radiators to warm up the place. There's been talk of banning this type of boiler in a few towns around here. Apparently they produce lots of smoke and ash when damped down. The fact that they release this stuff at ground level makes the problem, or at least the perception of a problem, worse. Be careful you don't build something you might not be able to use. I know that there is more to doing it than just a box to get it very efficient and thought he should find a book on how wood stoves are constructed. Anyone here with any experience at this or wood stove construction? I think I remember that if you use steel plate that it won't last as long as cast iron for some reason. ?? I did some design work on commercial versions of home boilers that were developed at the University of Maine about 25 years ago and have built several stoves myself. Steel woodburners can be quite durable if lined lined with refractory in the appropriate areas; either firebrick or cast refractory. -- Ned Simmons |
#7
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
"Butter" wrote in message ups.com... Guy at work is constantly talking about this now that its getting -snip- this or wood stove construction? I think I remember that if you use steel plate that it won't last as long as cast iron for some reason. ?? Rosce example, http://www.centralboiler.com/models.php plans, (no affiliation, just googled "pallet burner") http://deb-design.com/palletburner.htm |
#8
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:47:45 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Karl Townsend" quickly quoth: read up on Hasha http://tinyurl.com/2dy3xm Isn't the best stuff from Kabul? Oops, never mind. I much prefer a forced air furnace. The movement of the air keeps any mildew from forming inside the house much better than convection. -- Happiness is not a station you arrive at, but a manner of traveling. -- Margaret Lee Runbeck |
#9
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:29:15 -0700, Butter wrote:
Guy at work is constantly talking about this now that its getting cold and I had the idea that the place to find someone who had done this was people with the skills to do it. What would be the point of asking office people for example how to do anything. We have acess to steel sheet from 12 ga to 3/8 thick. He can get slabs from his brother-in-laws sawmill and wants to run hot water from the outside furnace into the house. Then use radiators to warm up the place. I know that there is more to doing it than just a box to get it very efficient and thought he should find a book on how wood stoves are constructed. Anyone here with any experience at this or wood stove construction? I think I remember that if you use steel plate that it won't last as long as cast iron for some reason. ?? Rosce I also wondered why cast iron was preferred in such applications. I asked a lot of people about that, finally got a good answer from a boiler and firebox design engineer. But we were both office people, having only such skills as office people might have. Best of luck in your quest! |
#10
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
"Don Foreman" wrote in message ... On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:29:15 -0700, Butter wrote: Guy at work is constantly talking about this now that its getting cold and I had the idea that the place to find someone who had done this was people with the skills to do it. What would be the point of asking office people for example how to do anything. We have acess to steel sheet from 12 ga to 3/8 thick. He can get slabs from his brother-in-laws sawmill and wants to run hot water from the outside furnace into the house. Then use radiators to warm up the place. I know that there is more to doing it than just a box to get it very efficient and thought he should find a book on how wood stoves are constructed. Anyone here with any experience at this or wood stove construction? I think I remember that if you use steel plate that it won't last as long as cast iron for some reason. ?? Rosce I also wondered why cast iron was preferred in such applications. I asked a lot of people about that, finally got a good answer from a boiler and firebox design engineer. But we were both office people, having only such skills as office people might have. Best of luck in your quest! Considering your prowess in the office, how does one go about sharpening a pencil, Don? :-) Harold |
#11
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:36:53 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote: Butter wrote: Guy at work is constantly talking about this now that its getting cold and I had the idea that the place to find someone who had done this was people with the skills to do it. What would be the point of asking office people for example how to do anything. We have acess to steel sheet from 12 ga to 3/8 thick. Nobody else mentione this, so I thought I should. What you are talking about is a potential BOMB! You absolutely must have proper safety controls on it so the boiler cannot ever get overheated. (I'm not sure how you do this on a wood-heated boiler.) For gas or oil, you just cut the burner off if the circulator pump quits. You might actually have to have some sort of fire-putter-outer in case of electrical outage, pump motor failure, etc. If the worst happens, you may have to just let the water out, and melt the boiler. Jon Remember this thing is making hot water, not steam, nor is it new technology. They were using hot water radiators in the grade school when I was in the first grade for God's sake, and the school was an old building even then. You can control pressure in the boiler with a pressure relief valve, just like they always have. The only other controls you need are the chimney damper and the air inlet doors to control the draft. If you are worried about the make up water just mount a "make up" tank above the boiler. Bruce-in-Bangkok (Note:displayed e-mail address is a spam trap) |
#12
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
First ask yourself....
Do I want to get up 3-4:00 am in the morrning and go out side in the cold snow to fix a fire... Sometime it will happen... |
#13
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
Great, but are you going to tell us what you learned?
We made maple syrup here for 10 years using a homemade evaporator. http://www.spaco.org/ms.htm I tried steel grates (re-rod) but a 5/8" diameter rod dissapears in about a year. So I finally broke down and bought cast iron grates. They seem to last forever except if you EVER let the ashes pile up underneath enough to touch the cast iron. Then they sag. So I certainly agree that cast iron is better. Of course the evaporator fire is kept VERY hot. We were after a stack temperature of 550 to 750 degrees F. Pete Stanaitis -------------------------------------------- I also wondered why cast iron was preferred in such applications. I asked a lot of people about that, finally got a good answer from a boiler and firebox design engineer. |
#14
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
Jon Elson wrote: Butter wrote: Guy at work is constantly talking about this now that its getting cold and I had the idea that the place to find someone who had done this was people with the skills to do it. What would be the point of asking office people for example how to do anything. We have acess to steel sheet from 12 ga to 3/8 thick. Nobody else mentione this, so I thought I should. What you are talking about is a potential BOMB! You absolutely must have proper safety controls on it so the boiler cannot ever get overheated. (I'm not sure how you do this on a wood-heated boiler.) For gas or oil, you just cut the burner off if the circulator pump quits. You might actually have to have some sort of fire-putter-outer in case of electrical outage, pump motor failure, etc. If the worst happens, you may have to just let the water out, and melt the boiler. Jon All water heating systems have a overpressure valve commonly called a Watts valve since the Watts company makes a lot of them. You have one on your water heater and they are installed on all water circulating boilers. They have to be sized for the burner. Most modern water radiator type systems have an automatic fill into the system. Back flow valves must be installed so water cannot flow from the closed system back into your fresh water system. John |
#15
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
There are some combination wood/oil fired units now, where if the wood fire
dies down, the oil burner kicks in. wrote in message ups.com... First ask yourself.... Do I want to get up 3-4:00 am in the morrning and go out side in the cold snow to fix a fire... Sometime it will happen... |
#16
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
Don Foreman wrote:
I also wondered why cast iron was preferred in such applications. I asked a lot of people about that, finally got a good answer from a boiler and firebox design engineer. I grew up with hydronic heat, we had a Standard boiler and Bell & Gosset pumps. The house I am in now also has hydronic heat, with a boiler make I'm not familiar with, and one Bell & Gosset pump, and zone valves. Both systems used finned baseboard radiators. The Standard boiler was a cast iron thing, but this newer one (installed in 1976 when the house was built) has a long string of copper ells. I'd never seen one like that. I assume the ells are brazed together, I can't imagine solder would hold up to the thermal cycling conditions. The ells look like this : _ _ _ _ _ | | | | | | | | | | - - - - - ---- and there are several circuits in parallel. Jon |
#17
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Outside wood burning furnace help needed????
On Oct 24, 4:29 pm, Butter wrote:
Guy at work is constantly talking about this now that its getting cold and I had the idea that the place to find someone who had done this was people with the skills to do it. What would be the point of asking office people for example how to do anything. We have acess to steel sheet from 12 ga to 3/8 thick. He can get slabs from his brother-in-laws sawmill and wants to run hot water from the outside furnace into the house. Then use radiators to warm up the place. I know that there is more to doing it than just a box to get it very efficient and thought he should find a book on how wood stoves are constructed. Anyone here with any experience at this or wood stove construction? I think I remember that if you use steel plate that it won't last as long as cast iron for some reason. ?? Rosce The niece has this in their place, combination corn and wood pellet stove. Feeds hot water to a set of loops in the house. It's welded steel construction, probably about the size of two phone booths back to back on a slab outside about 20' away from the house. It's got a pretty sophisticated controller to handle things, thermostats in all the loops. Personally, I wouldn't try to cobble something like this together myself. It's got a hopper they have to fill about once a week and clean out the ash at the same time. Pellets have less ash than the corn, corn they can get from the tenant leasing the land. Not sure what they're using this year, ethanol is driving up prices on corn. Has a backup propane burner that can also supply domestic hot water. Hand-fed and wood fired is going to get awful tiresome running out in the cold at least twice a day, maybe more. The b-in-l has had wood- fired hot water heat for decades, stove is inside. Also plate steel construction. He's lost his source of free wood and doesn't want to spend the time cutting and splitting anyway so is going back to propane for heating as soon as the current woodpile vanishes. Had to fill the basement with wood at least once a week and feed the stove several times a day, takes up a lot of space down there. Brings in bugs, too. With his system, there's a pump involved, if there's a storm that takes out the power, there's no heat in the rest of the place. Has a backup generator for that eventuality, something that you need to keep in mind. One thing about a do-it-yourself furnace is the effect it might have on the fire insurance, like maybe you can't get any? Insurance companies are usually a lot more willing to insure places that have proper testing agency stickers on the heating equipment, particularly where sealed vessels heating water are involved. Stan |
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