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Default Atlas Lathe upgrade to QC gearbox, do it right the SECOND time

Finally got the correct parts to convert my Atlas 10F lathe to a quick
change gear box. By now I have learned a lot more than I ever wanted
to know about it. I suppose I could have saved myself a lot of time,
effort and money if I had subscribed to the atlas-craftsman listserver,
but when I did do that some years ago, I was pestered with about 20
extra emails a day from it.
Anyhow, if you are interested in converting a standard-change-gears
Atlas 10 or 12 inch swing lathe to a quick change gear box, email me off
list a I will fill you in on any details you may need.

The biggest problem I had was that the machine I have is one with the
lead screw reverser down just to the left of the leadscrew. It is nice
because the system also acts as a clutch, so you don't have to stop the
lathe to change lead screw directions. Unless you want to do a whole
lot of extra work, you need a QC gearbox that:
1) mounts where the old reverser mounted. It's bolt pattern is a
LOT different from most of the ones you see on EBay.
2) has an adapter plate for mounting the CORRECT reverser onto the
left side of the headstock, because you can't use the stock reverser
(the one mounted down by the leadscrew).

Early on when I was asking for help on this newsgroup, a really nice guy
sent me his "how-to" for converting to an "EBay" used QC gearbox.
Niether of us realized that my lathe didn't have that heatstock-mounted
reverser. So I went out on EBAy and bought the first QC gearbox that I
found. THEN I discovered the "disconnect".

After discussing this new (to me) problem with this newgroup, a couple
of other guys chimed in with some good ideas, culminating in a call to
Clausing and the buying of a couple of related drawing of the missing
reverser bracket and the reverser lever itself.

A big "AHHA" at this time was that Atlas used to sell upgrade kits to
move your lathe from standard to QC gears. That IS the set of parts
that I needed for mine.

By this time I have:
-the Clausing drawings for the headstock-mounted reverser parts,
-complete QC Upgrade Kit installation instructions,
-some other Atlas intructions for something related,
-and a how-to on converting some other Atlas 10-12 lathes that don't
have the reverser that I do.

Finally---- A few months ago, after learning all this, another nice
guy emailed me to say something like this:
"---Hey Pete, looks like the QC gearbox parts WE need are up to auction
on E-Bay right now---"
Well, I was already bidding on those parts and I replied to him
telling him so and addressing whatever else was in his email.
But I never heard from him again. I'll bet that he was also bidding
on the same auction, and probably won it over me. He probably felt bad
about beating me out and stopped the dialoque. I meant to email him
and tell him that "the highest bidder won, congratulations", but I
haven't yet done that.
Well, now I've got (hopefully) all my parts, so as soon as I get
caught up in the shop, I will go out and install them.
One of the things I STILL have to do is to install the complete 12"
Atlas with QC gearbox that a friend loaned me on a "permanent loan"
basis, as reported previously.
The other thing is to sell the extra QC gearbox that I recently bought.


Pete Stanaitis
----------------------------------
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Default Atlas Lathe upgrade to QC gearbox, do it right the SECOND time

spaco wrote:
Finally got the correct parts to convert my Atlas 10F lathe to a quick
change gear box. By now I have learned a lot more than I ever wanted
to know about it. I suppose I could have saved myself a lot of time,
effort and money if I had subscribed to the atlas-craftsman listserver,
but when I did do that some years ago, I was pestered with about 20
extra emails a day from it.
Anyhow, if you are interested in converting a standard-change-gears
Atlas 10 or 12 inch swing lathe to a quick change gear box, email me off
list a I will fill you in on any details you may need.

The biggest problem I had was that the machine I have is one with the
lead screw reverser down just to the left of the leadscrew. It is nice
because the system also acts as a clutch, so you don't have to stop the
lathe to change lead screw directions.

Yes, that is one nice feature lost in the conversion. But,
there was never a stock QC that worked that way. In fact, the
end of the leadscrew was the shaft for a bunch of the gears in
the QC. My Sheldon R-15 has that feature, the reverser is on
the output of the QC, but their QC (80 threads, 80 different
feeds) is more complicated than a 5-speed automatic transmission
with overdrive and lock-up torque converter.

I hope it all goes OK. I did my 10" Atlas some years ago, but I
did get all the required parts the first time.

Jon
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Default Atlas Lathe upgrade to QC gearbox, do it right the SECOND time

On Oct 21, 5:11 pm, spaco wrote:
Finally got the correct parts to convert my Atlas 10F lathe to a quick
change gear box. By now I have learned a lot more than I ever wanted
to know about it. I suppose I could have saved myself a lot of time,
effort and money if I had subscribed to the atlas-craftsman listserver,
but when I did do that some years ago, I was pestered with about 20
extra emails a day from it.
Anyhow, if you are interested in converting a standard-change-gears
Atlas 10 or 12 inch swing lathe to a quick change gear box, email me off
list a I will fill you in on any details you may need.

The biggest problem I had was that the machine I have is one with the
lead screw reverser down just to the left of the leadscrew. It is nice
because the system also acts as a clutch, so you don't have to stop the
lathe to change lead screw directions. Unless you want to do a whole
lot of extra work, you need a QC gearbox that:
1) mounts where the old reverser mounted. It's bolt pattern is a
LOT different from most of the ones you see on EBay.
2) has an adapter plate for mounting the CORRECT reverser onto the
left side of the headstock, because you can't use the stock reverser
(the one mounted down by the leadscrew).

Early on when I was asking for help on this newsgroup, a really nice guy
sent me his "how-to" for converting to an "EBay" used QC gearbox.
Niether of us realized that my lathe didn't have that heatstock-mounted
reverser. So I went out on EBAy and bought the first QC gearbox that I
found. THEN I discovered the "disconnect".

After discussing this new (to me) problem with this newgroup, a couple
of other guys chimed in with some good ideas, culminating in a call to
Clausing and the buying of a couple of related drawing of the missing
reverser bracket and the reverser lever itself.

A big "AHHA" at this time was that Atlas used to sell upgrade kits to
move your lathe from standard to QC gears. That IS the set of parts
that I needed for mine.

By this time I have:
-the Clausing drawings for the headstock-mounted reverser parts,
-complete QC Upgrade Kit installation instructions,
-some other Atlas intructions for something related,
-and a how-to on converting some other Atlas 10-12 lathes that don't
have the reverser that I do.

Finally---- A few months ago, after learning all this, another nice
guy emailed me to say something like this:
"---Hey Pete, looks like the QC gearbox parts WE need are up to auction
on E-Bay right now---"
Well, I was already bidding on those parts and I replied to him
telling him so and addressing whatever else was in his email.
But I never heard from him again. I'll bet that he was also bidding
on the same auction, and probably won it over me. He probably felt bad
about beating me out and stopped the dialoque. I meant to email him
and tell him that "the highest bidder won, congratulations", but I
haven't yet done that.
Well, now I've got (hopefully) all my parts, so as soon as I get
caught up in the shop, I will go out and install them.
One of the things I STILL have to do is to install the complete 12"
Atlas with QC gearbox that a friend loaned me on a "permanent loan"
basis, as reported previously.
The other thing is to sell the extra QC gearbox that I recently bought.

Pete Stanaitis
----------------------------------


Pete

Although i own a QC atlas i live in a semi metric land.

i KNOW in theory the way to convert the gear train is by using a 127
toothed gear because 127:50 is 2.54:1

i almost think i would have had an easier time doing this work on a
change gear atlas

Any ideas other than to ask this on the Yahoo group?

thanks for any guidance you might be able to offer

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Default Atlas Lathe upgrade to QC gearbox, do it right the SECOND time

I haven't had to confront the metric issue just yet, but I can see it
coming if I live long enough.
Every now and then HSM magazine publishes an article on lathe gear
ratios. Might be worth looking there. I vaguely remember such an
article within the last few years where the author developed a set of
tables of threads using standard gears that were so close to metric
equivalents that he suggested using them instead. Not all metric
threads worked out this way, but many did.

I always figured that if I had the need, I'd start out by putting all my
facts into a spreadsheet and go from there.

Why not ask this same question again on this newsgroup as a new post,
so it doesn't get lost in this one?

I've heard the 127 tooth thing, too. It must work. I just went out in
the shop to see what the biggest gear I have is. It is 96 teeth. A
127 tooth gear would be pretty dang big!

Pete Stanaitis
-------------------------------------------------

Brent wrote:
snip
Pete

Although i own a QC atlas i live in a semi metric land.

i KNOW in theory the way to convert the gear train is by using a 127
toothed gear because 127:50 is 2.54:1

i almost think i would have had an easier time doing this work on a
change gear atlas

Any ideas other than to ask this on the Yahoo group?

thanks for any guidance you might be able to offer

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Default Atlas Lathe upgrade to QC gearbox, do it right the SECOND time

Hi, again, Brent.

I did a little digging around on the net. The first thing I did was to
try the HSM's webpage index, which just didn't work.

But, here may be just what you are looking for: I found this by
googling "metric threading on atlas standard change gear lathe"

Especially note the comments about the 44/52 tooth gears.
---------------------------------------------------
Fitch R. Williams wrote:

"Michael Goodwin" wrote:


What do you need to convert a 12x36 quik/change Atlas lathe over to

metric
thread cutting? What threads are available?


If you will be doing more than just an occasional thread, you will
need a 50T and a 127T gear. Suggest getting both the manual for your
lathe and the book Screw Cutting In The Lathe by Martin cleeve if you
don't already have it. snip


Actually, "two of the standard change gears furnished with the Master
Craftsman Lathe (i.e., Atlas lathe), the 52 tooth gear and the 44 tooth
gear, combine to give a ratio of 44/52 or .846154, which is an almost
exact function of 2.54, the English to Metric ratio. Thus it is
possible to cut metric threads accurate to the extremely close limits of
1 part in 3000."

That is a direct lift from the manual you recommend (It *is* a great
book, especially for the owner). For about 17 years I thought having to
leave the half nut engaged was the price I paid for cutting metric
threads this way, but now I realize that some metric threads on metric
machines have to be cut the same way.

And, of course, Scott Logan's page has some additional very useful info
on using those same two gears on Logans or nearly any other lathe with a
gear train.

Brent wrote:


Pete

Although i own a QC atlas i live in a semi metric land.

i KNOW in theory the way to convert the gear train is by using a 127
toothed gear because 127:50 is 2.54:1

i almost think i would have had an easier time doing this work on a
change gear atlas

Any ideas other than to ask this on the Yahoo group?

thanks for any guidance you might be able to offer



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Default Atlas Lathe upgrade to QC gearbox, do it right the SECOND time

The biggest problem I had was that the machine I have is one with the
lead screw reverser down just to the left of the leadscrew. It is nice
because the system also acts as a clutch, so you don't have to stop the
lathe to change lead screw directions.


My Sheldon R-15 has that feature, the reverser is on
the output of the QC, but their QC (80 threads, 80 different
feeds) is more complicated than a 5-speed automatic transmission
with overdrive and lock-up torque converter.


Well this probably won't help you with your Atlas, but I think it's
kind of neat anyway:

In the Hendey reverser shown at http://www.lathes.co.uk/hendey/page10.html
the spindle feeds a hollow shaft in to a bevel gear that turns an
idler bevel into another facing the input but turning in the opposite
direction. The output to the QC is picked up by a dog clutch that can
pick up power from either face of the counter-rotating bevel gears.
This is sent out a shaft inside the input shaft, and then down to the
rest of the QC like you'd expect. Simple and slick.

But the part I really like is that dog clutch is controlled by a
handle conveniently located on the apron. It only engages the
leadscrew in one place, so you don't need a threading dial as long as
you keep the half nuts engaged, and there are stops that will pop the
handle out of gear when the carriage hits them...

--Glenn Lyford

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Default Atlas Lathe upgrade to QC gearbox, do it right the SECOND time

Me, again.

Here's some info on the "52/44" thing:
However, there is a simple way (cleverly worked out by Atlas-owner
Carvel Webb) to generate a limited range of the more common metric
pitches. Because the 30 t.p.i., 24 t.p.i and 20 t.p.i positions
represented the same ratio intervals as 1 mm, 1.25 mm and 1.5 mm pitch
if one could convert the 30 t.p.I. position to 1 mm pitch, then the 24
t.p.i and 20 t.p.i positions would correspond to 1.25m and 1.5mm. Now,
30 t.p.i = 25.4/30 = 0.8467 mm. Close, but not close enough, so how to
get this closer to 1 mm ? Using 52 and 44-tooth gears gives 0.8467 x
52/44 = 1.0006 mm - which is almost spot-on. The tumbler gears in the
Atlas set include a 32/16 shielded gear driving a 40 tooth sliding gear
which in turn drives the box through a back-to-back pair of 48-tooth
idlers. Because the 52/44 combination fits neatly in place of the 48/48
idler the job can be done. With the 40-tooth sliding gear engaging the
52-tooth gear to the box, the 52-tooth gear is acting as an idler (with
the 44-tooth gear as its spacer) and the gearbox operates in its normal
`Imperial Mode' - but with the exception of the coarsest (seldom-used)
range. However, with the 40-tooth sliding gear in the other position, it
engages the 44-tooth gear of the 52/44 combination and introduces the
52/44 ratio into the train. The 30, 24 and 20 positions, or 60, 48 and
40 positions, become the desired 1 mm, 1.25 mm and 1.5 mm pitches,
depending upon whether the 52-tooth gear of the 52/44 pair has been
placed closest to, or away from, the headstock. However, placing it away
from the headstock maintains the bulk of the t.p.i. and feed settings
(as per the chart on the gearbox). It also means that it's not necessary
to remember to double everything - as would be the case if the sliding
gear was driving off the 32-tooth part of the shielded tumbler gear. All
that is now required to switch between the normal "Imperial Mode" and
the "Basic Metric Mode" is the few seconds it takes to loosen the yoke
and to move the sliding gear in or out.

It came from he http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/page9.html

I think this site is one of the best I've ever visited for Atlas Lathes.

Pete Stanaitis
------------------------------------
Brent wrote:


Pete

Although i own a QC atlas i live in a semi metric land.

i KNOW in theory the way to convert the gear train is by using a 127
toothed gear because 127:50 is 2.54:1

i almost think i would have had an easier time doing this work on a
change gear atlas

Any ideas other than to ask this on the Yahoo group?

thanks for any guidance you might be able to offer

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Posts: 169
Default Atlas Lathe upgrade to QC gearbox, do it right the SECOND time



spaco wrote:
I haven't had to confront the metric issue just yet, but I can see it
coming if I live long enough.
Every now and then HSM magazine publishes an article on lathe gear
ratios. Might be worth looking there. I vaguely remember such an
article within the last few years where the author developed a set of
tables of threads using standard gears that were so close to metric
equivalents that he suggested using them instead. Not all metric
threads worked out this way, but many did.

I always figured that if I had the need, I'd start out by putting all my
facts into a spreadsheet and go from there.

Why not ask this same question again on this newsgroup as a new post,
so it doesn't get lost in this one?

I've heard the 127 tooth thing, too. It must work. I just went out in
the shop to see what the biggest gear I have is. It is 96 teeth. A
127 tooth gear would be pretty dang big!

You probably don't have a 50-tooth, either. If you use them as a set,
then they don't need to have the same tooth pitch as the rest of the gears.
So, get some nice brass gears in a finer pitch that makes them a nice
size, and make the necessary hub features (bore and two keyways).

But, the real problem is the imperial leadscrew. Using the transposing
gears, you can never disengage the leadscrew, you have to back up the
lathe every threading pass. That means you have to stop the spindle at
the end of the threading pass, or the pull back the cutter very fast. A
royal pain. The proper fix is to go with a metric leadscrew.

Jon

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Default Atlas Lathe upgrade to QC gearbox, do it right the SECOND time

spaco wrote:


It came from he http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/page9.html

I think this site is one of the best I've ever visited for Atlas Lathes.

Pete Stanaitis


I agree. One of my AA lathes is pictured there.
I send him new info when I find it, suggest we all do so.


Rex
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Default Atlas Lathe upgrade to QC gearbox, do it right the SECOND time

Pete, glad to hear you are making progress. It's real learning
experience, isn't it?

Rex


spaco wrote:
Finally got the correct parts to convert my Atlas 10F lathe to a quick
change gear box. By now I have learned a lot more than I ever wanted
to know about it. I suppose I could have saved myself a lot of time,
effort and money if I had subscribed to the atlas-craftsman listserver,
but when I did do that some years ago, I was pestered with about 20
extra emails a day from it.
Anyhow, if you are interested in converting a standard-change-gears
Atlas 10 or 12 inch swing lathe to a quick change gear box, email me off
list a I will fill you in on any details you may need.

The biggest problem I had was that the machine I have is one with the
lead screw reverser down just to the left of the leadscrew. It is nice
because the system also acts as a clutch, so you don't have to stop the
lathe to change lead screw directions. Unless you want to do a whole
lot of extra work, you need a QC gearbox that:
1) mounts where the old reverser mounted. It's bolt pattern is a
LOT different from most of the ones you see on EBay.
2) has an adapter plate for mounting the CORRECT reverser onto the left
side of the headstock, because you can't use the stock reverser (the one
mounted down by the leadscrew).

Early on when I was asking for help on this newsgroup, a really nice guy
sent me his "how-to" for converting to an "EBay" used QC gearbox.
Niether of us realized that my lathe didn't have that heatstock-mounted
reverser. So I went out on EBAy and bought the first QC gearbox that I
found. THEN I discovered the "disconnect".

After discussing this new (to me) problem with this newgroup, a couple
of other guys chimed in with some good ideas, culminating in a call to
Clausing and the buying of a couple of related drawing of the missing
reverser bracket and the reverser lever itself.

A big "AHHA" at this time was that Atlas used to sell upgrade kits to
move your lathe from standard to QC gears. That IS the set of parts
that I needed for mine.

By this time I have:
-the Clausing drawings for the headstock-mounted reverser parts,
-complete QC Upgrade Kit installation instructions,
-some other Atlas intructions for something related,
-and a how-to on converting some other Atlas 10-12 lathes that don't
have the reverser that I do.

Finally---- A few months ago, after learning all this, another nice
guy emailed me to say something like this:
"---Hey Pete, looks like the QC gearbox parts WE need are up to auction
on E-Bay right now---"
Well, I was already bidding on those parts and I replied to him
telling him so and addressing whatever else was in his email.
But I never heard from him again. I'll bet that he was also bidding
on the same auction, and probably won it over me. He probably felt bad
about beating me out and stopped the dialoque. I meant to email him
and tell him that "the highest bidder won, congratulations", but I
haven't yet done that.
Well, now I've got (hopefully) all my parts, so as soon as I get
caught up in the shop, I will go out and install them.
One of the things I STILL have to do is to install the complete 12"
Atlas with QC gearbox that a friend loaned me on a "permanent loan"
basis, as reported previously.
The other thing is to sell the extra QC gearbox that I recently bought.


Pete Stanaitis
----------------------------------

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