Well today I decided to do some work on new screw supports for my Gingery
lathe-mill.
Nothing particulary hard, just facing a piece of aluminium one inch
across.
After a while, I noticed the dreary smell of burnt electrical stuff,and
then the motor made this noise like fried bacon. I threw the switch off
and gathered my wits. The casing was very hot. The start capacitor kept
making noises for a while even disconnected! What I suppose to be the
starting wiring (but apparently not the main wiring) seems fried.
I felt like weeping.
Even though I got this motor as a gift and it was way old I liked it.
Perhaps I will have it repaired if the price is worth it. But in the
meantime I need to put a motor on the lathe. I have another one, that I
pressume is shaded pole type, 4 poles (no start capacitor, only two wires
in) absolutely no markings wahtsoever. Physically it is somewhat smaller
than an average washing machine motor, but bigger that the 1/3 hp motor in my
drill press. I have had it running for hours with a large car radiator fan
attached to the shaft.
I'm aware of the low starting torque of shaded pole motors. It's easy for
me to start the motor with the contershaft belt slack and then tighten it.
As for the low efficiency I guess I'll be contented with light cuts for
the time being. On the plus side shade pole motors seem to be largely
resistant to burning from overload and/or stalling.
Tomorrow I'll start fitting this motor to the countershaft so see what it
can do.


Regards,

Camilo Ramos


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sep 23, 4:08 am, "Camilo Ramos" wrote:
Well today I decided to do some work on new screw supports for my Gingery
lathe-mill.
Nothing particulary hard, just facing a piece of aluminium one inch
across.
After a while, I noticed the dreary smell of burnt electrical stuff,and
then the motor made this noise like fried bacon. I threw the switch off
and gathered my wits. The casing was very hot. The start capacitor kept
making noises for a while even disconnected! What I suppose to be the
starting wiring (but apparently not the main wiring) seems fried.
I felt like weeping.
Even though I got this motor as a gift and it was way old I liked it.
Perhaps I will have it repaired if the price is worth it. But in the
meantime I need to put a motor on the lathe. I have another one, that I
pressume is shaded pole type, 4 poles (no start capacitor, only two wires
in) absolutely no markings wahtsoever. Physically it is somewhat smaller
than an average washing machine motor, but bigger that the 1/3 hp motor in my
drill press. I have had it running for hours with a large car radiator fan
attached to the shaft.
I'm aware of the low starting torque of shaded pole motors. It's easy for
me to start the motor with the contershaft belt slack and then tighten it.
As for the low efficiency I guess I'll be contented with light cuts for
the time being. On the plus side shade pole motors seem to be largely
resistant to burning from overload and/or stalling.
Tomorrow I'll start fitting this motor to the countershaft so see what it
can do.

Regards,

Camilo Ramos

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

I tend to be in favour of getting old motors rewound. Some of the old
motors are really beautifully constructed, and in terms of build
quality most new motors don't even come close. Call several rewind
shops to get the best price. I know a guy in England who does rewinds
cheap, but that probably isn't much use to you.

Good luck!

Chris

Here's a good chance to upgrade to variable speed. Install a three phase
motor and VFD. 3 phase motors can be scrounged for cheap/free. Iggy has VFDs
for small motors real cheap

Karl

there is a very good chance that replacing the capacitor will get the motor
working again - unless you can see that the windings are fried, presuming it
was a run capacitor. if it was a start capacitor, then the cause was the
centrifugal switch contacts welding, and you then could have destroyed the
windings and the capacitor - in that case, if you want to use the motor
still, disconnect the damaged winding, and with the belt loose, spin the
motor by hand and apply power while it is turning, so the technique is
spin/switch on.




"Camilo Ramos" wrote in message
.. .
Well today I decided to do some work on new screw supports for my Gingery
lathe-mill.
Nothing particulary hard, just facing a piece of aluminium one inch
across.
After a while, I noticed the dreary smell of burnt electrical stuff,and
then the motor made this noise like fried bacon. I threw the switch off
and gathered my wits. The casing was very hot. The start capacitor kept
making noises for a while even disconnected! What I suppose to be the
starting wiring (but apparently not the main wiring) seems fried.
I felt like weeping.
Even though I got this motor as a gift and it was way old I liked it.
Perhaps I will have it repaired if the price is worth it. But in the
meantime I need to put a motor on the lathe. I have another one, that I
pressume is shaded pole type, 4 poles (no start capacitor, only two wires
in) absolutely no markings wahtsoever. Physically it is somewhat smaller
than an average washing machine motor, but bigger that the 1/3 hp motor in
my
drill press. I have had it running for hours with a large car radiator fan
attached to the shaft.
I'm aware of the low starting torque of shaded pole motors. It's easy for
me to start the motor with the contershaft belt slack and then tighten it.
As for the low efficiency I guess I'll be contented with light cuts for
the time being. On the plus side shade pole motors seem to be largely
resistant to burning from overload and/or stalling.
Tomorrow I'll start fitting this motor to the countershaft so see what it
can do.


Regards,

Camilo Ramos


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:58:24 +0000, William Noble wrote:


there is a very good chance that replacing the capacitor will get the motor
working again - unless you can see that the windings are fried, presuming it
was a run capacitor. if it was a start capacitor, then the cause was the
centrifugal switch contacts welding, and you then could have destroyed the
windings and the capacitor - in that case, if you want to use the motor
still, disconnect the damaged winding, and with the belt loose, spin the
motor by hand and apply power while it is turning, so the technique is
spin/switch on.


I have a bench grinder like that. It's capacitor died (I think) and I pull
start it. I'll take the motor apart hoping I can test what is salvageable.
BTW, when you say the centrifugal switch contacts welding, you mean by
arcing?

Regards,

Camilo Ramos


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 07:22:04 +0000, Karl Townsend wrote:


Here's a good chance to upgrade to variable speed. Install a three phase
motor and VFD. 3 phase motors can be scrounged for cheap/free. Iggy has VFDs
for small motors real cheap

Yes but first I'd like to get a method to test any motors at the dumpster
itself without actually having to look for a way to connect to the mains.
Plus, often motors ripped out from God knows where have no markings on
them, so connecting the wires becomes a guessing game.
Oh, and I dont have 3-phase only single so I would need to build a pahjse
copverter


Regards,

Camilo Ramos




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

what I mean by switch contacts welding is that due to arching, the switch
contacts can get stuck together and not open, this will keep the start
winding energized even when the motor is up to speed, and it causes trouble.

solution - separate the contacts and file them smooth
"Camilo Ramos" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:58:24 +0000, William Noble wrote:


there is a very good chance that replacing the capacitor will get the
motor
working again - unless you can see that the windings are fried, presuming
it
was a run capacitor. if it was a start capacitor, then the cause was the
centrifugal switch contacts welding, and you then could have destroyed
the
windings and the capacitor - in that case, if you want to use the motor
still, disconnect the damaged winding, and with the belt loose, spin the
motor by hand and apply power while it is turning, so the technique is
spin/switch on.


I have a bench grinder like that. It's capacitor died (I think) and I pull
start it. I'll take the motor apart hoping I can test what is salvageable.
BTW, when you say the centrifugal switch contacts welding, you mean by
arcing?

Regards,

Camilo Ramos


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:03:22 -0500, Camilo Ramos wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 07:22:04 +0000, Karl Townsend wrote:


Here's a good chance to upgrade to variable speed. Install a three phase
motor and VFD. 3 phase motors can be scrounged for cheap/free. Iggy has VFDs
for small motors real cheap

Yes but first I'd like to get a method to test any motors at the dumpster
itself without actually having to look for a way to connect to the mains.
Plus, often motors ripped out from God knows where have no markings on
them, so connecting the wires becomes a guessing game.
Oh, and I dont have 3-phase only single so I would need to build a pahjse
copverter

For three phase motors, you can use a variable speed drive, it is
almost always better on machines. Most can take single phase input and
make three phase output.

Karl, here's where I bought the drive that I sold to you:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=200142228258

i

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:03:22 -0500, "Camilo Ramos"
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 07:22:04 +0000, Karl Townsend wrote:


Here's a good chance to upgrade to variable speed. Install a three phase
motor and VFD. 3 phase motors can be scrounged for cheap/free. Iggy has VFDs
for small motors real cheap

Yes but first I'd like to get a method to test any motors at the dumpster
itself without actually having to look for a way to connect to the mains.
Plus, often motors ripped out from God knows where have no markings on
them, so connecting the wires becomes a guessing game.
Oh, and I dont have 3-phase only single so I would need to build a pahjse
copverter

You could always buy a "Megger"® hi-pot insulation tester, that
should catch the motors that are totally bad right at the dumpster -
but for one problem.

You'll pay more for the testing tools to find out if the windings
are bad than you would for a brand new electric motor that will be a
precise drop-in fit, with a warranty, from a supply house.

Most motors under 5 HP (and almost all under 2 HP) are usually found
in the dumpster for a /reason/. Either bad bearings, start switch,
start or run capacitors, or winding problems. Better yet, if you are
in a rush to open it up and fix it, it's really easy to try fixing one
problem and cause another and the machine will fail again...

And in an industrial production setting it's far cheaper to toss the
bad motor than to futz with repairing it - when that machine isn't
making parts, you are losing money, period.

If you can collect three or four identical motors with different
faults from the same dumpster, you can swap bits around and make a
good one. But you'll waste a lot of time doing it. If your time is
essentially free, go for it.

-- Bruce --

Most motors under 5 HP (and almost all under 2 HP) are usually found
in the dumpster for a /reason/. Either bad bearings, start switch,
start or run capacitors, or winding problems. Better yet, if you are
in a rush to open it up and fix it, it's really easy to try fixing one
problem and cause another and the machine will fail again...


The way to go is to buy scrap assemblies with a motor on it. I've bought at
least 20 mixers, conveyors, turntables, etc. over the years and the motor
was good on every single one.

Karl

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:58:00 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:03:22 -0500, "Camilo Ramos"
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 07:22:04 +0000, Karl Townsend wrote:


Here's a good chance to upgrade to variable speed. Install a three phase
motor and VFD. 3 phase motors can be scrounged for cheap/free. Iggy has VFDs
for small motors real cheap

Yes but first I'd like to get a method to test any motors at the dumpster
itself without actually having to look for a way to connect to the mains.
Plus, often motors ripped out from God knows where have no markings on
them, so connecting the wires becomes a guessing game.
Oh, and I dont have 3-phase only single so I would need to build a pahjse
copverter

You could always buy a "Megger"® hi-pot insulation tester, that
should catch the motors that are totally bad right at the dumpster -
but for one problem.

You'll pay more for the testing tools to find out if the windings
are bad than you would for a brand new electric motor that will be a
precise drop-in fit, with a warranty, from a supply house.

Most motors under 5 HP (and almost all under 2 HP) are usually found
in the dumpster for a /reason/. Either bad bearings, start switch,
start or run capacitors, or winding problems. Better yet, if you are
in a rush to open it up and fix it, it's really easy to try fixing one
problem and cause another and the machine will fail again...

And in an industrial production setting it's far cheaper to toss the
bad motor than to futz with repairing it - when that machine isn't
making parts, you are losing money, period.

If you can collect three or four identical motors with different
faults from the same dumpster, you can swap bits around and make a
good one. But you'll waste a lot of time doing it. If your time is
essentially free, go for it.

-- Bruce --


The vast majority of 3 phase motors I find in the scrap are there
because the equipment they were on was obsolete and it wasn't worth
saving the motor.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

I have yet to encounter a bad three phase motor.

Three phase stuff is made for real use (unlike stuff sold at Walmart),
three phase machines usually have motor protection such as overloads,
and the motors are usually properly sized for the job.

So the used three phase motors that I encounter, all run fine.

i

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:38:33 -0400, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:58:00 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 20:03:22 -0500, "Camilo Ramos"
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 07:22:04 +0000, Karl Townsend wrote:


Here's a good chance to upgrade to variable speed. Install a three phase
motor and VFD. 3 phase motors can be scrounged for cheap/free. Iggy has VFDs
for small motors real cheap

Yes but first I'd like to get a method to test any motors at the dumpster
itself without actually having to look for a way to connect to the mains.
Plus, often motors ripped out from God knows where have no markings on
them, so connecting the wires becomes a guessing game.
Oh, and I dont have 3-phase only single so I would need to build a pahjse
copverter

You could always buy a "Megger"® hi-pot insulation tester, that
should catch the motors that are totally bad right at the dumpster -
but for one problem.

You'll pay more for the testing tools to find out if the windings
are bad than you would for a brand new electric motor that will be a
precise drop-in fit, with a warranty, from a supply house.

Most motors under 5 HP (and almost all under 2 HP) are usually found
in the dumpster for a /reason/. Either bad bearings, start switch,
start or run capacitors, or winding problems. Better yet, if you are
in a rush to open it up and fix it, it's really easy to try fixing one
problem and cause another and the machine will fail again...

And in an industrial production setting it's far cheaper to toss the
bad motor than to futz with repairing it - when that machine isn't
making parts, you are losing money, period.

If you can collect three or four identical motors with different
faults from the same dumpster, you can swap bits around and make a
good one. But you'll waste a lot of time doing it. If your time is
essentially free, go for it.

-- Bruce --


The vast majority of 3 phase motors I find in the scrap are there
because the equipment they were on was obsolete and it wasn't worth
saving the motor.


Indeed. I think Ive found (1) bad motor in all my scrounging. And it
was only bearings.

Gunner

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:12:55 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:38:33 -0400, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:58:00 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

Most motors under 5 HP (and almost all under 2 HP) are usually found
in the dumpster for a /reason/. Either bad bearings, start switch,
start or run capacitors, or winding problems. Better yet, if you are
in a rush to open it up and fix it, it's really easy to try fixing one
problem and cause another and the machine will fail again...

And in an industrial production setting it's far cheaper to toss the
bad motor than to futz with repairing it - when that machine isn't
making parts, you are losing money, period.

The vast majority of 3 phase motors I find in the scrap are there
because the equipment they were on was obsolete and it wasn't worth
saving the motor.

Indeed. I think Ive found (1) bad motor in all my scrounging. And it
was only bearings.

Well. you're welcome to the one I had to change on a paint spray
booth. 2 HP Dayton 230/460 3Ph. running at 460V, belt drive, 4-pole
1725 RPM IIRC - open winding.

Only had a few months and under 50 hours on it, but rather than
batch all the paint work up for one long run the workers like starting
the fan for 10 minutes at a shot several times a day.

And of course it has a mag starter with an electronic overload - Has
to, so the fire suppression bottle can cut the fan (and the shop air
to the spray gun) if and when it ever trips off. And the air solenoid
stops them from spraying with the fan off.

-- Bruce --

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:00:36 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:12:55 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:38:33 -0400, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:58:00 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

Most motors under 5 HP (and almost all under 2 HP) are usually found
in the dumpster for a /reason/. Either bad bearings, start switch,
start or run capacitors, or winding problems. Better yet, if you are
in a rush to open it up and fix it, it's really easy to try fixing one
problem and cause another and the machine will fail again...

And in an industrial production setting it's far cheaper to toss the
bad motor than to futz with repairing it - when that machine isn't
making parts, you are losing money, period.

The vast majority of 3 phase motors I find in the scrap are there
because the equipment they were on was obsolete and it wasn't worth
saving the motor.

Indeed. I think Ive found (1) bad motor in all my scrounging. And it
was only bearings.

Well. you're welcome to the one I had to change on a paint spray
booth. 2 HP Dayton 230/460 3Ph. running at 460V, belt drive, 4-pole
1725 RPM IIRC - open winding.

What caused it to burn a winding?

Only had a few months and under 50 hours on it, but rather than
batch all the paint work up for one long run the workers like starting
the fan for 10 minutes at a shot several times a day.

That shouldnt have done in the windings..unless it was way underrated
for the starting load.

And of course it has a mag starter with an electronic overload - Has
to, so the fire suppression bottle can cut the fan (and the shop air
to the spray gun) if and when it ever trips off. And the air solenoid
stops them from spraying with the fan off.

-- Bruce --

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 01:35:54 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:00:36 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

Well. you're welcome to the one I had to change on a paint spray
booth. 2 HP Dayton 230/460 3Ph. running at 460V, belt drive, 4-pole
1725 RPM IIRC - open winding.

What caused it to burn a winding?

Beats me - since it hasn't repeated itself, probably a factory
defect. Didn't smell burnt but it read open, and I wasn't going to
field-strip it. Might have been a lead to winding failure or
inter-winding break. Made somewhere in the far east where salaries
are $2 a day, don't recall exactly where.

They let the booth languish several months between the physical
install and getting it all wired, fire-plumbed, SCAQMD permit accepted
and running, so on the first phone calls the booth people didn't want
to warrantee it.

It quit and they wanted it running today, I got another motor and
swapped it in. Left the old new motor there so the owner could write
letters to ask again, and it's probably still sitting in the corner.

-- Bruce --