I've been looking for a right angle attachment for my varispeed J head.
I've googled and found some for M heads. What is the major difference
between the ones for the J and the ones for the M and what can I expect
to be a fair price? And by the way does anyone here have one they want
to part with?

cheers
T.Alan

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:41:59 -0700, "T.Alan Kraus"
wrote:

I've been looking for a right angle attachment for my varispeed J head.
I've googled and found some for M heads. What is the major difference
between the ones for the J and the ones for the M and what can I expect
to be a fair price?

The attachment clamps on the OD of the quill and mates with the taper
in the spindle. The J head has a larger quill than the M head and a
different spindle taper.

And by the way does anyone here have one they want
to part with?

I might.

--
Ned Simmons

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:39:43 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:41:59 -0700, "T.Alan Kraus"
wrote:

I've been looking for a right angle attachment for my varispeed J head.
I've googled and found some for M heads. What is the major difference
between the ones for the J and the ones for the M and what can I expect
to be a fair price?

The attachment clamps on the OD of the quill and mates with the taper
in the spindle. The J head has a larger quill than the M head and a
different spindle taper.

And by the way does anyone here have one they want
to part with?

I might.


I am interesting in your attachment Ned. Let me know if you ever
decide to part with it.

i

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:11:11 -0500, Ignoramus25943
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:39:43 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:41:59 -0700, "T.Alan Kraus"
wrote:

And by the way does anyone here have one they want
to part with?

I might.


I am interesting in your attachment Ned. Let me know if you ever
decide to part with it.

I am interested in selling the attachment, I just don't know how much
of it. I have two of the RA attachments as well as a horizontal arbor
and support. I keep meaning to check and see if the arbor support fits
the mill I currently have. If it doesn't, I'd probably want to sell
the RA attachment, arbor and support together.

I'll try to check over the weekend - nudge me if you don't hear in a
few days.

--
Ned Simmons

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:58:24 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:11:11 -0500, Ignoramus25943
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:39:43 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:41:59 -0700, "T.Alan Kraus"
wrote:

And by the way does anyone here have one they want
to part with?

I might.


I am interesting in your attachment Ned. Let me know if you ever
decide to part with it.

I am interested in selling the attachment, I just don't know how much
of it. I have two of the RA attachments as well as a horizontal arbor
and support. I keep meaning to check and see if the arbor support fits
the mill I currently have. If it doesn't, I'd probably want to sell
the RA attachment, arbor and support together.

I'll try to check over the weekend - nudge me if you don't hear in a
few days.


Let me know Ned. The RA attachment, is that an angle attachment? Got
any N2 collets?

i;A

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:30:14 -0500, Ignoramus25943
wrote:




Let me know Ned. The RA attachment, is that an angle attachment?

Yes, RA = right angle. This is a J head angle attachment...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=270166363663

and an arbor support...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=120074171220

The arbor support clamps on the ram dovetails, which is what I need to
check for fit.

Got
any N2 collets?

N2?

--
Ned Simmons

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:41:11 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:30:14 -0500, Ignoramus25943
wrote:




Let me know Ned. The RA attachment, is that an angle attachment?

Yes, RA = right angle. This is a J head angle attachment...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=270166363663

and an arbor support...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=120074171220

The arbor support clamps on the ram dovetails, which is what I need to
check for fit.

Got
any N2 collets?

N2?


Oh, I misunderstood you, I thought (incorrectly) that you said that
you have the variable angle attachment. I have such an attachment, but
no collets for it. :-( Those are called N2 collets.

In any case, I am interested in a right angle attachment.

Also, just curious, what crimper do you use for crimping 10-18 gauge
terminals. (mostly insulated). I am not 100% satisfied with
mine.

After having done a lot of Ethernet wiring with a nice Ideal RJ-45
crimper, I now want to upgrade my cheap terminal crimper to something
nice also. Hence my question.

By the way, the ethernet wiring upgraded my house to gigabit Ethernet.

i

I know Iggy jumped right in there, but if you are deciding to sell the
attachment and it fits a J head and has an R8 spindle, I'm interested.

cheers
T.Alan

Ignoramus25943 wrote:

Also, just curious, what crimper do you use for crimping 10-18 gauge
terminals. (mostly insulated). I am not 100% satisfied with
mine.

After having done a lot of Ethernet wiring with a nice Ideal RJ-45
crimper, I now want to upgrade my cheap terminal crimper to something
nice also. Hence my question.

By the way, the ethernet wiring upgraded my house to gigabit Ethernet.

i

Iggy

If that's the ratcheting type RJ45 crimper you can get a set of dies for
it that does crimp on lugs. These things not only crimp the wire in the
lug barrel but have a secondary die that crimps the plastic barrel part
of the connector onto the wire insulation. These are becoming sort of a
'spec grade' required method in some industries such as nuclear power
and the power industry in general, per a friend in that area. I have a
set for my ratcheting crimpers at work and they do a very nice job but
somewhat more slowly than other methods.

My crimper of choice is actually one of those universal types, but a
very nice one, not one of those ****ty ones that come with the 'crimp on
assortment' kits. The wire stripper section is not the best but I do use
the screw cutter section. I don't recall what brand they are, possibly
Klien, maybe Ideal. The T&B brand crimpers do a nice job also, 'u'
shaped dies for non insulated lugs and longer fatter handles for better
leverage.

Regards
Paul



--
-----------------------------------------
It's a Linux world....well, it oughta be.
-----------------------------------------

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 23:55:19 -0500, Paul wrote:
Ignoramus25943 wrote:

Also, just curious, what crimper do you use for crimping 10-18 gauge
terminals. (mostly insulated). I am not 100% satisfied with
mine.

After having done a lot of Ethernet wiring with a nice Ideal RJ-45
crimper, I now want to upgrade my cheap terminal crimper to something
nice also. Hence my question.

By the way, the ethernet wiring upgraded my house to gigabit Ethernet.

i

Iggy

If that's the ratcheting type RJ45 crimper you can get a set of dies for
it that does crimp on lugs. These things not only crimp the wire in the
lug barrel but have a secondary die that crimps the plastic barrel part
of the connector onto the wire insulation. These are becoming sort of a
'spec grade' required method in some industries such as nuclear power
and the power industry in general, per a friend in that area. I have a
set for my ratcheting crimpers at work and they do a very nice job but
somewhat more slowly than other methods.

My crimper of choice is actually one of those universal types, but a
very nice one, not one of those ****ty ones that come with the 'crimp on
assortment' kits. The wire stripper section is not the best but I do use
the screw cutter section. I don't recall what brand they are, possibly
Klien, maybe Ideal. The T&B brand crimpers do a nice job also, 'u'
shaped dies for non insulated lugs and longer fatter handles for better
leverage.

Paul, thanks. If you have a picture of the crimper that you like, I
would love to look at it.

i

Ignoramus25943 wrote:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 23:55:19 -0500, Paul wrote:

Ignoramus25943 wrote:


Also, just curious, what crimper do you use for crimping 10-18 gauge
terminals. (mostly insulated). I am not 100% satisfied with
mine.

After having done a lot of Ethernet wiring with a nice Ideal RJ-45
crimper, I now want to upgrade my cheap terminal crimper to something
nice also. Hence my question.

By the way, the ethernet wiring upgraded my house to gigabit Ethernet.

i

Iggy

If that's the ratcheting type RJ45 crimper you can get a set of dies for
it that does crimp on lugs. These things not only crimp the wire in the
lug barrel but have a secondary die that crimps the plastic barrel part
of the connector onto the wire insulation. These are becoming sort of a
'spec grade' required method in some industries such as nuclear power
and the power industry in general, per a friend in that area. I have a
set for my ratcheting crimpers at work and they do a very nice job but
somewhat more slowly than other methods.

My crimper of choice is actually one of those universal types, but a
very nice one, not one of those ****ty ones that come with the 'crimp on
assortment' kits. The wire stripper section is not the best but I do use
the screw cutter section. I don't recall what brand they are, possibly
Klien, maybe Ideal. The T&B brand crimpers do a nice job also, 'u'
shaped dies for non insulated lugs and longer fatter handles for better
leverage.


Paul, thanks. If you have a picture of the crimper that you like, I
would love to look at it.

i

Well, all that stuff is at work but I'll see what I can do about ID'ing
it Monday.

Paul


--
-----------------------------------------
It's a Linux world....well, it oughta be.
-----------------------------------------

..

Also, just curious, what crimper do you use for crimping 10-18 gauge
terminals. (mostly insulated). I am not 100% satisfied with
mine.

After having done a lot of Ethernet wiring with a nice Ideal RJ-45
crimper, I now want to upgrade my cheap terminal crimper to something
nice also. Hence my question.

By the way, the ethernet wiring upgraded my house to gigabit Ethernet
\
I

Not the fanciest but I use a Klein WT111A I think is the number. Use
it at least weekly for the last 30 years. Worn but sill does well.

Bob AZ

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 00:21:40 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Bob
AZ quickly quoth:

.

Also, just curious, what crimper do you use for crimping 10-18 gauge
terminals. (mostly insulated). I am not 100% satisfied with
mine.

After having done a lot of Ethernet wiring with a nice Ideal RJ-45
crimper, I now want to upgrade my cheap terminal crimper to something
nice also. Hence my question.

By the way, the ethernet wiring upgraded my house to gigabit Ethernet
\
I

Not the fanciest but I use a Klein WT111A I think is the number. Use
it at least weekly for the last 30 years. Worn but sill does well.

I was curious and tried to google that crimper but couldn't find it.
WWII issue, eh? g

Here's another Klein tool I never thought I'd see. Do they still even
-make- beverage bottles like that?
http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/promobev.html

--

EXPLETIVE: A balm, usually applied verbally in hindsight,
which somehow eases those pains and indignities following
our every deficiency in foresight.

T.Alan Kraus wrote:
I've been looking for a right angle attachment for my varispeed J head.
I've googled and found some for M heads. What is the major difference
between the ones for the J and the ones for the M and what can I expect
to be a fair price? And by the way does anyone here have one they want
to part with?

cheers
T.Alan

I have a right angle attachment and TWO of the outboard arbor supports,
both of which fit a BP. I also have I believe 4 horizontal arbors. I
picked up this stuff at a show a few years back and have never used it.
I am definitely willing to sell the stuff. But I don't have time to
even think about it right now - I'm on a critical welding job working
7 14s until today and then I'm off for a week in Montana.

Grant

Grant, when you return, lets deal, I'm interested. Happy hunting if
that's what your doing in Montana.

cheers
T.Alan

I have a right angle attachment and TWO of the outboard arbor supports,
both of which fit a BP. I also have I believe 4 horizontal arbors. I
picked up this stuff at a show a few years back and have never used it.
I am definitely willing to sell the stuff. But I don't have time to
even think about it right now - I'm on a critical welding job working
7 14s until today and then I'm off for a week in Montana.

Grant

According to Ignoramus25943 :

[ ... ]

Also, just curious, what crimper do you use for crimping 10-18 gauge
terminals. (mostly insulated). I am not 100% satisfied with
mine.

For *insulated* terminals in that range, I use two crimpers by
AMP. The Heavyhead one for 10-12 gauge (yellow insulation and handle
dip), and one of the lighter ones for 16-18 gauge (blue insulation, blue
and green color dips on the handles). There is a slight overlap between
that and the next size down 16-22 (red insulation and handle dip).
Often the handle dip is worn off except on the inside of the handles.

The newer Heavyhead ones are also often marked 16-14 -- but that
is for a specially insulated one -- double insulation, I think, so it is
a proper fit.

All should be marked "P.I.D.G" ("Post Insulated Diamond Grip" is
what that stands for), and works best with genuine AMP terminals, which
are designed to firmly grip the insulation -- with a three-position
adjustment for the insulation crimp size.

For *uninsulated* terminals -- you want a separate set of
crimpers, tailored for the uninsulated terminals. I don't use those, so
I can't suggest the proper crimpers for those.

This e-bay auction: 200153890891 has a strange one. The head
looks like a heavy-head crimper, but the extra length of the handles
suggests that it is modified for a different terminal size -- perhaps 6
gauge based on the number shown.

O.K. 290163350835 is the normal heavy-head crimper, and the
starting bid is a nice one at least.

This one: 7597766347 is the 22-16 gauge one (Red insulation),
but it is an auction for five of them, so you'll have to pick the best
and sell off the rest, I guess -- or give the rest to friends.

This one: 330068726166 is the 14-16 gauge (blue/green handle
dip, blue insulation). But the price is a bit steep ($90.00 BIN,
paypal required)

Same for this -- with an even steeper price: 330078502270

Keep watching eBay for the various sizes -- but the three I
listed will cover most needs.

Avoid the "Type F" ones -- they are for a special type of
uninsulated. It has two pairs of flags. The ones closer to the
terminal crimp onto the wire, and those at the end crimp onto the
insulation. They are mostly used for crimp-on pins, though I have seen
crimp-on terminals using the same things -- it is just more difficult to
find the good terminals for them.

And remember -- matching the crimper to the terminal and the
wire size is required for a really reliable crimp. This is why I have a
bucket of crimpers which I have difficulty lifting when it is full.
(And this does not include the hydraulic ones plus dies for the #8
through #2 range and the 0 through 4/0 range. -- yes, I now have the
full set. :-)

There are lots of specialized crimpers by AMP as well, including
ones which will crimp the braid and the center pin on coax connector
inserts, and ones which will crimp a ferrule to make wire connections to
the braid on shielded wires of various types.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN, thanks a lot, great post. I think that I will simply monitor the
crimpers category like I do with AC drives category (a lot of insanity
is going on in the latter). Thank you very much for getting me
started.

i

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:26:28 -0500, Ignoramus25943
wrote:



In any case, I am interested in a right angle attachment.

I finally got around to rounding up the various parts and checking the
fit of the arbor support on my mill. Email me and I'll tell you what
I've got.


Also, just curious, what crimper do you use for crimping 10-18 gauge
terminals. (mostly insulated). I am not 100% satisfied with
mine.

I use a T&B crimper like this most often...
http://www.tnb.com/ps/fulltilt/index.cgi?part=wt145a

I have a several of the AMP crimpers that DoN mentioned, and while
they do an excellent job, I wouldn't want to make too many
terminations in 10-12 wire with one. The design seems perfect for
causing a repetitive stress injury. I use the smaller ones for D-sub
pins and CPC connectors quite a lot, and even they are a bit awkward.

--
Ned Simmons

According to Ned Simmons :

[ ... ]

I have a several of the AMP crimpers that DoN mentioned, and while
they do an excellent job, I wouldn't want to make too many
terminations in 10-12 wire with one. The design seems perfect for
causing a repetitive stress injury.

There are electric, pneumatic, or hydraulic ones using the same
crimp head if you are doing a lot of terminals at one sitting -- e.g.
production line work.

I even saw one which was battery powered hydraulic on eBay
recently -- Bundy, but with the AMP crimp head for the 10-12 ga
terminals.

I use the smaller ones for D-sub
pins and CPC connectors quite a lot, and even they are a bit awkward.

I've had no problems with any of the smaller ones -- but then I
don't sit all day crimping terminals.

And for the larger terminals -- 8 through 2 Ga, and 1/0 through
4/0 -- I have an electrically powered hydraulic system.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 28 Sep 2007 03:35:02 GMT, (DoN. Nichols)
wrote:

According to Ned Simmons :


I use the smaller ones for D-sub
pins and CPC connectors quite a lot, and even they are a bit awkward.

I've had no problems with any of the smaller ones -- but then I
don't sit all day crimping terminals.

I haven't had a problem with them either, I just don't find them as
comfortable as some others. The big'uns really do do a nice job, but
after 10 or 20 #12 terminals I start to feel it in my forearm,
something I don't experience with the T&B crimpers

--
Ned Simmons

In article ,
(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

According to Ned Simmons :

[ ... ]

I have a several of the AMP crimpers that DoN mentioned, and while
they do an excellent job, I wouldn't want to make too many
terminations in 10-12 wire with one. The design seems perfect for
causing a repetitive stress injury.

There are electric, pneumatic, or hydraulic ones using the same
crimp head if you are doing a lot of terminals at one sitting -- e.g.
production line work.

I even saw one which was battery powered hydraulic on eBay
recently -- Bundy, but with the AMP crimp head for the 10-12 ga
terminals.

I use the smaller ones for D-sub
pins and CPC connectors quite a lot, and even they are a bit awkward.

I've had no problems with any of the smaller ones -- but then I
don't sit all day crimping terminals.

And for the larger terminals -- 8 through 2 Ga, and 1/0 through
4/0 -- I have an electrically powered hydraulic system.

I had to attach two terminals to #6 stranded wire many years ago, in the
late 1960s. There wasn't space for a mechanical (sidebolt) terminal,
and I didn't have a crimper, so I bought the crimp terminals (which were
made of copper) and simply soldered them to the wire with a torch and
plumbers solder and flux, wiped the flux off with a paper towel, and
insulated the barrel with heavy heat-shrink tubing.

The design of the crimp terminals made a dandy solder-pot terminal, so
it was easy. I don't recall the details, but I probably pre-tinned the
wire and the socket, assembled them, and sweated them together.

Code still allowed solder then; don't know if code still allows solder.

Joe Gwinn

According to Joseph Gwinn :
In article ,
(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

[ ... ]

And for the larger terminals -- 8 through 2 Ga, and 1/0 through
4/0 -- I have an electrically powered hydraulic system.

I had to attach two terminals to #6 stranded wire many years ago, in the
late 1960s. There wasn't space for a mechanical (sidebolt) terminal,
and I didn't have a crimper, so I bought the crimp terminals (which were
made of copper) and simply soldered them to the wire with a torch and
plumbers solder and flux, wiped the flux off with a paper towel, and
insulated the barrel with heavy heat-shrink tubing.

That can work -- but it can be a bad choice if the terminal is
subjected to vibration. The solder wicks up to the insulation and stops
right there, and any flex from the vibration is concentrated in that one
spot -- resulting in eventual failure at that point.

The crimped terminals leave a bit more length of solder-free
wire, so the flex occurs over a longer stretch, and the wire lasts
longer.

And the *good* crimped terminals -- the pre-insulated ones with
a P.I.D.G. crimper will collapse the rear of the insulation sleeve to
grip the insulation, thus reducing the flex at the terminal. In
particular, the AMP terminals for the P.I.D.G. (Pre Insulated Diamond
Grip) have a sleeve of metal shim stock around the terminal barrel and
inside the insulation, with the last bit folded back to the edge points
towards the terminal. This bites into the insulation to grip it more
firmly than possible by just collapsing the plastic insulation to form a
grip.

This is why these terminals are particularly preferred for
aircraft applications -- when it is quite awkward if certain electrical
connections fail while you are aloft -- and they *never* seem to fail
on the ground. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

According to Joseph Gwinn :
In article ,
(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

[ ... ]

And for the larger terminals -- 8 through 2 Ga, and 1/0 through
4/0 -- I have an electrically powered hydraulic system.

I had to attach two terminals to #6 stranded wire many years ago, in the
late 1960s. There wasn't space for a mechanical (sidebolt) terminal,
and I didn't have a crimper, so I bought the crimp terminals (which were
made of copper) and simply soldered them to the wire with a torch and
plumbers solder and flux, wiped the flux off with a paper towel, and
insulated the barrel with heavy heat-shrink tubing.

That can work -- but it can be a bad choice if the terminal is
subjected to vibration. The solder wicks up to the insulation and stops
right there, and any flex from the vibration is concentrated in that one
spot -- resulting in eventual failure at that point.

The crimped terminals leave a bit more length of solder-free
wire, so the flex occurs over a longer stretch, and the wire lasts
longer.

And the *good* crimped terminals -- the pre-insulated ones with
a P.I.D.G. crimper will collapse the rear of the insulation sleeve to
grip the insulation, thus reducing the flex at the terminal. In
particular, the AMP terminals for the P.I.D.G. (Pre Insulated Diamond
Grip) have a sleeve of metal shim stock around the terminal barrel and
inside the insulation, with the last bit folded back to the edge points
towards the terminal. This bites into the insulation to grip it more
firmly than possible by just collapsing the plastic insulation to form a
grip.

This is why these terminals are particularly preferred for
aircraft applications -- when it is quite awkward if certain electrical
connections fail while you are aloft -- and they *never* seem to fail
on the ground. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---



In my experience, the biggest problem with failure of crimped terminals
is that the installer did not use a proper crimping device, or the unit
was not calibrated with a go no go gauge. The cheap stamped out
crimping might be ok for household use but they spring and don't do a
secure crimp. A good T & B forged crimping tool is a lot better way to
go than the stamped ones if you can find one used in good shape. The
best crimpers are the ones that have a racheting system that will not
release until the proper pressure is put on the crimped terminal, but
these crimping tools must be checked periodicly with a go no/go gauge.
Overcrimping is as bad as under crimped terminal. Overcrimping cuts the
wire and although the terminal looks like a good crimp a number of wires
are cut and the terminal is held on mostly by the insulation. On the
high end crimping tools, there are identification marks that are on the
crimper that leave the same mark on the crimped terminal so the
inspector can tell if the terminal was crimped with the right tool.


John

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:16:44 -0400, John wrote:
go than the stamped ones if you can find one used in good shape. The
best crimpers are the ones that have a racheting system that will not
release until the proper pressure is put on the crimped terminal, but
these crimping tools must be checked periodicly with a go no/go gauge.

I used such a ratcheting crimper when I was installing Cat6 cabling
as part of upgrade of my house to Gigabit Ethernet. I was very
impressed with the consistency and quality.

i

That is logical - often done in cooler areas. How about silver solder.
The lower temp versions are just perfect.
Then if the joint gets hot due to heat sinking an arc the joint will
be solid for a higher duty cycle.

Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

According to Ned Simmons :

[ ... ]

I have a several of the AMP crimpers that DoN mentioned, and while
they do an excellent job, I wouldn't want to make too many
terminations in 10-12 wire with one. The design seems perfect for
causing a repetitive stress injury.
There are electric, pneumatic, or hydraulic ones using the same
crimp head if you are doing a lot of terminals at one sitting -- e.g.
production line work.

I even saw one which was battery powered hydraulic on eBay
recently -- Bundy, but with the AMP crimp head for the 10-12 ga
terminals.

I use the smaller ones for D-sub
pins and CPC connectors quite a lot, and even they are a bit awkward.
I've had no problems with any of the smaller ones -- but then I
don't sit all day crimping terminals.

And for the larger terminals -- 8 through 2 Ga, and 1/0 through
4/0 -- I have an electrically powered hydraulic system.

I had to attach two terminals to #6 stranded wire many years ago, in the
late 1960s. There wasn't space for a mechanical (sidebolt) terminal,
and I didn't have a crimper, so I bought the crimp terminals (which were
made of copper) and simply soldered them to the wire with a torch and
plumbers solder and flux, wiped the flux off with a paper towel, and
insulated the barrel with heavy heat-shrink tubing.

The design of the crimp terminals made a dandy solder-pot terminal, so
it was easy. I don't recall the details, but I probably pre-tinned the
wire and the socket, assembled them, and sweated them together.

Code still allowed solder then; don't know if code still allows solder.

Joe Gwinn

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http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Don - must use your Anti-skating tools that keep the stranded wire
free from wicking. That is mil spec requirement since lets say years before
the moon. :-)

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to Joseph Gwinn :
In article ,
(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

[ ... ]

And for the larger terminals -- 8 through 2 Ga, and 1/0 through
4/0 -- I have an electrically powered hydraulic system.
I had to attach two terminals to #6 stranded wire many years ago, in the
late 1960s. There wasn't space for a mechanical (sidebolt) terminal,
and I didn't have a crimper, so I bought the crimp terminals (which were
made of copper) and simply soldered them to the wire with a torch and
plumbers solder and flux, wiped the flux off with a paper towel, and
insulated the barrel with heavy heat-shrink tubing.

That can work -- but it can be a bad choice if the terminal is
subjected to vibration. The solder wicks up to the insulation and stops
right there, and any flex from the vibration is concentrated in that one
spot -- resulting in eventual failure at that point.

The crimped terminals leave a bit more length of solder-free
wire, so the flex occurs over a longer stretch, and the wire lasts
longer.

And the *good* crimped terminals -- the pre-insulated ones with
a P.I.D.G. crimper will collapse the rear of the insulation sleeve to
grip the insulation, thus reducing the flex at the terminal. In
particular, the AMP terminals for the P.I.D.G. (Pre Insulated Diamond
Grip) have a sleeve of metal shim stock around the terminal barrel and
inside the insulation, with the last bit folded back to the edge points
towards the terminal. This bites into the insulation to grip it more
firmly than possible by just collapsing the plastic insulation to form a
grip.

This is why these terminals are particularly preferred for
aircraft applications -- when it is quite awkward if certain electrical
connections fail while you are aloft -- and they *never* seem to fail
on the ground. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.


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We had a set of drawers cabinet - roll around in the R&D lab - that held
drawers in the bottom of different sizes of crimpers and the other dozen
held the crimp dies for the many handles.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Ignoramus18262 wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:16:44 -0400, John wrote:
go than the stamped ones if you can find one used in good shape. The
best crimpers are the ones that have a racheting system that will not
release until the proper pressure is put on the crimped terminal, but
these crimping tools must be checked periodicly with a go no/go gauge.

I used such a ratcheting crimper when I was installing Cat6 cabling
as part of upgrade of my house to Gigabit Ethernet. I was very
impressed with the consistency and quality.

i

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According to John :
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

And the *good* crimped terminals -- the pre-insulated ones with
a P.I.D.G. crimper will collapse the rear of the insulation sleeve to
grip the insulation, thus reducing the flex at the terminal. In
particular, the AMP terminals for the P.I.D.G. (Pre Insulated Diamond
Grip) have a sleeve of metal shim stock around the terminal barrel and
inside the insulation, with the last bit folded back to the edge points
towards the terminal. This bites into the insulation to grip it more
firmly than possible by just collapsing the plastic insulation to form a
grip.

[ ... ]

In my experience, the biggest problem with failure of crimped terminals
is that the installer did not use a proper crimping device, or the unit
was not calibrated with a go no go gauge. The cheap stamped out
crimping might be ok for household use but they spring and don't do a
secure crimp.

They are -- at best -- emergency field repair tools, and the
crimp should be re-done with a proper tool when you are back home (or
wherever the proper tool is).

A good T & B forged crimping tool is a lot better way to
go than the stamped ones if you can find one used in good shape. The
best crimpers are the ones that have a racheting system that will not
release until the proper pressure is put on the crimped terminal,

This describes the AMP tools which I was suggesting upthread.

but
these crimping tools must be checked periodicly with a go no/go gauge.
Overcrimping is as bad as under crimped terminal. Overcrimping cuts the
wire and although the terminal looks like a good crimp a number of wires
are cut and the terminal is held on mostly by the insulation. On the
high end crimping tools, there are identification marks that are on the
crimper that leave the same mark on the crimped terminal so the
inspector can tell if the terminal was crimped with the right tool.

Right -- red (22-16 ga) is one dot, blue (16-14 ga) is two dots,
yellow (12-10 ga) is back to one dot, but there is sufficient difference
in size so there is no way that a terminal crimped with one size of one
dot tool instead of the proper one dot tool would pass the simplest
visual inspection.

Once you get past 10 ga, the rest (all hydraulic in my set)
emboss the actual gauge number in the insulation barrel, because it is
now big enough to read easily.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
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According to Martin H. Eastburn :
Don - must use your Anti-skating tools that keep the stranded wire
free from wicking. That is mil spec requirement since lets say years before
the moon. :-)

You mean anti-wicking tweezers? Yes, but I don't think that I
have seen any large enough for the 6 ga wire which he described as
having soldered terminals to -- and he certainly did not mention the use
of such tooling.

If you *must* use solder -- such as when connecting to the
solder-tail terminals on a relay socket or something similar, then the
anti-wicking tools are mandatory -- at least in any kind of application
where the assembly is subject to vibration, and a person's life depends
on the circuit continuing to function.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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Yea them - several terms I suppose. My George C. Marshall Space Flight Center
booklet from Quality division circa 1961 gives them a general term of Heat Shunt.

Can be wide tweeters or the custom sets by gage wire as Don mentioned.
The skating term - is Air force. Solder wicks up the strands - or skates.
(I suppose).

You could wrap a bunch of tin foil tightly around the end -

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


DoN. Nichols wrote:
According to Martin H. Eastburn :
Don - must use your Anti-skating tools that keep the stranded wire
free from wicking. That is mil spec requirement since lets say years before
the moon. :-)

You mean anti-wicking tweezers? Yes, but I don't think that I
have seen any large enough for the 6 ga wire which he described as
having soldered terminals to -- and he certainly did not mention the use
of such tooling.

If you *must* use solder -- such as when connecting to the
solder-tail terminals on a relay socket or something similar, then the
anti-wicking tools are mandatory -- at least in any kind of application
where the assembly is subject to vibration, and a person's life depends
on the circuit continuing to function.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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In article ,
(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

According to Martin H. Eastburn :
Don - must use your Anti-skating tools that keep the stranded wire
free from wicking. That is mil spec requirement since lets say years before
the moon. :-)

You mean anti-wicking tweezers? Yes, but I don't think that I
have seen any large enough for the 6 ga wire which he described as
having soldered terminals to -- and he certainly did not mention the use
of such tooling.

I didn't bother, as the application was both stationary and not
safety-critical. The application was connecting up a new stage-light
dimmer panel at a high school.

Joe Gwinn


If you *must* use solder -- such as when connecting to the
solder-tail terminals on a relay socket or something similar, then the
anti-wicking tools are mandatory -- at least in any kind of application
where the assembly is subject to vibration, and a person's life depends
on the circuit continuing to function.

Enjoy,
DoN.

In article ,
"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote:

That is logical - often done in cooler areas. How about silver solder.
The lower temp versions are just perfect.
Then if the joint gets hot due to heat sinking an arc the joint will
be solid for a higher duty cycle.

But the insulation will have long since burned away?

The code, which is very conservative, allowed use of soft solder. I
asked a friend who is an electrician and contractor if solder was still
allowed by the code, and he said that he believes it still is. My copy
of the code is old, so I cannot check.

Joe Gwinn


Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
(DoN. Nichols) wrote:

According to Ned Simmons :

[ ... ]

I have a several of the AMP crimpers that DoN mentioned, and while
they do an excellent job, I wouldn't want to make too many
terminations in 10-12 wire with one. The design seems perfect for
causing a repetitive stress injury.
There are electric, pneumatic, or hydraulic ones using the same
crimp head if you are doing a lot of terminals at one sitting -- e.g.
production line work.

I even saw one which was battery powered hydraulic on eBay
recently -- Bundy, but with the AMP crimp head for the 10-12 ga
terminals.

I use the smaller ones for D-sub
pins and CPC connectors quite a lot, and even they are a bit awkward.
I've had no problems with any of the smaller ones -- but then I
don't sit all day crimping terminals.

And for the larger terminals -- 8 through 2 Ga, and 1/0 through
4/0 -- I have an electrically powered hydraulic system.

I had to attach two terminals to #6 stranded wire many years ago, in the
late 1960s. There wasn't space for a mechanical (sidebolt) terminal,
and I didn't have a crimper, so I bought the crimp terminals (which were
made of copper) and simply soldered them to the wire with a torch and
plumbers solder and flux, wiped the flux off with a paper towel, and
insulated the barrel with heavy heat-shrink tubing.

The design of the crimp terminals made a dandy solder-pot terminal, so
it was easy. I don't recall the details, but I probably pre-tinned the
wire and the socket, assembled them, and sweated them together.

Code still allowed solder then; don't know if code still allows solder.

Joe Gwinn

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