low-end MIG -- CC?
 

I've been browsing looking at light-duty MIG welders, and I'm coming
up with some questions.

First, does anybody have any opinions on the Northern Tool MIG135?
Looks like a fairly nice, 110V machine capable of either gas or
fluxcore out of the box. The reviews I've seen of it have looked
good, but they've almost all been on Northern's site. Over on a Jeep
site, there is one frequent poster who harps on it as being cheap, but
he seems to be in something of a minority. The welder is at
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...2691_200332691

What's got me really puzzled, though is what I seem to be finding in
the real bottom-feeders of the MIG world (down below the light-duty
welders I'm actually considering): looking at the front panel
of things like the bottom-end Chicago Electric welders at Harbor
Freight, they seem to list a max open circuit voltage, and list
amperages for various switch settings (and also have a continuously
variable wire feed speed) -- looking for all the world like they are
CC machines. Are they, or am I misreading?

low-end MIG -- CC?
 

"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
...
I've been browsing looking at light-duty MIG welders, and I'm coming
up with some questions.

First, does anybody have any opinions on the Northern Tool MIG135?
Looks like a fairly nice, 110V machine capable of either gas or
fluxcore out of the box. The reviews I've seen of it have looked
good, but they've almost all been on Northern's site. Over on a Jeep
site, there is one frequent poster who harps on it as being cheap, but
he seems to be in something of a minority. The welder is at
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...2691_200332691

What's got me really puzzled, though is what I seem to be finding in
the real bottom-feeders of the MIG world (down below the light-duty
welders I'm actually considering): looking at the front panel
of things like the bottom-end Chicago Electric welders at Harbor
Freight, they seem to list a max open circuit voltage, and list
amperages for various switch settings (and also have a continuously
variable wire feed speed) -- looking for all the world like they are
CC machines. Are they, or am I misreading?

One of the major considerations when buying a low end MIG is the weight.
Once it craps out or you can't find parts, you will be using it for a boat
anchor. Buy one with the highest weight.

Buy a good one, and don't look back. A long time from now, it will still be
working and you will be happy you sprung for a good one.

I've been welding since 1974, and that's my opinion. YMMV.

Steve

low-end MIG -- CC?
 

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
...
I've been browsing looking at light-duty MIG welders, and I'm coming
up with some questions.

First, does anybody have any opinions on the Northern Tool MIG135?
Looks like a fairly nice, 110V machine capable of either gas or
fluxcore out of the box. The reviews I've seen of it have looked
good, but they've almost all been on Northern's site. Over on a Jeep
site, there is one frequent poster who harps on it as being cheap, but
he seems to be in something of a minority. The welder is at

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...6970_200332691
_200332691

What's got me really puzzled, though is what I seem to be finding in
the real bottom-feeders of the MIG world (down below the light-duty
welders I'm actually considering): looking at the front panel
of things like the bottom-end Chicago Electric welders at Harbor
Freight, they seem to list a max open circuit voltage, and list
amperages for various switch settings (and also have a continuously
variable wire feed speed) -- looking for all the world like they are
CC machines. Are they, or am I misreading?

One of the major considerations when buying a low end MIG is the weight.
Once it craps out or you can't find parts, you will be using it for a boat
anchor. Buy one with the highest weight.

Buy a good one, and don't look back. A long time from now, it will still
be
working and you will be happy you sprung for a good one.

I've been welding since 1974, and that's my opinion. YMMV.

Steve



I agree with Steve on this one.

I'm going through this same discussion with a friend who wants to get into
welding as inexpensively as possible. HF does a pretty good job of parts
support on models they currently sell, but once they become obsolete, the
parts supply tends to dry up. Go with a brand name (Miller, Lincoln or
Hobart) that's been around forever and will probably be here to stay.

"It is better to pay too much for something than too little. If you pay too
much, it is generally only a little too much and you are out only that
little.
But, if you pay too little, you are apt to find what you bought is
inadequate
to the job and you are out the entire amount."

You can save some serious money by shopping around: Home Depot,
Lowes, Tractor Supply, etc., etc. Look at the web and when you find
what you want, print it out. A lot of companies price-match. And a lot
of companies offer things cheaper on the web than in their stores, but, if
you bring the web ad into the store, they'll give you the web price.

Jerry

low-end MIG -- CC?
 

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 17:15:22 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:


"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
...
I've been browsing looking at light-duty MIG welders, and I'm coming
up with some questions.

First, does anybody have any opinions on the Northern Tool MIG135?
Looks like a fairly nice, 110V machine capable of either gas or
fluxcore out of the box. The reviews I've seen of it have looked
good, but they've almost all been on Northern's site. Over on a Jeep
site, there is one frequent poster who harps on it as being cheap, but
he seems to be in something of a minority. The welder is at

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...6970_200332691
_200332691

What's got me really puzzled, though is what I seem to be finding in
the real bottom-feeders of the MIG world (down below the light-duty
welders I'm actually considering): looking at the front panel
of things like the bottom-end Chicago Electric welders at Harbor
Freight, they seem to list a max open circuit voltage, and list
amperages for various switch settings (and also have a continuously
variable wire feed speed) -- looking for all the world like they are
CC machines. Are they, or am I misreading?

One of the major considerations when buying a low end MIG is the weight.
Once it craps out or you can't find parts, you will be using it for a boat
anchor. Buy one with the highest weight.

Buy a good one, and don't look back. A long time from now, it will still
be
working and you will be happy you sprung for a good one.

I've been welding since 1974, and that's my opinion. YMMV.

Steve



I agree with Steve on this one.

I'm going through this same discussion with a friend who wants to get into
welding as inexpensively as possible. HF does a pretty good job of parts
support on models they currently sell, but once they become obsolete, the
parts supply tends to dry up. Go with a brand name (Miller, Lincoln or
Hobart) that's been around forever and will probably be here to stay.

"It is better to pay too much for something than too little. If you pay too
much, it is generally only a little too much and you are out only that
little.
But, if you pay too little, you are apt to find what you bought is
inadequate
to the job and you are out the entire amount."

You can save some serious money by shopping around: Home Depot,
Lowes, Tractor Supply, etc., etc. Look at the web and when you find
what you want, print it out. A lot of companies price-match. And a lot
of companies offer things cheaper on the web than in their stores, but, if
you bring the web ad into the store, they'll give you the web price.

Jerry

Check with your local welding machine distributor as well. They often
get trade ins that may well be within your price range, and have a
much better machine than one from HF..

If you buy a HF mig...for Croms sake..dont weld up a spare tire
carrier.........

Sigh

Gunner

low-end MIG -- CC?
 

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2007, "Jerry Foster" wrote:
"SteveB" wrote...
"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote...

I've been browsing looking at light-duty MIG welders, and I'm coming
up with some questions.

First, does anybody have any opinions on the Northern Tool MIG135?
Looks like a fairly nice, 110V machine capable of either gas or
fluxcore out of the box. The reviews I've seen of it have looked
good, but they've almost all been on Northern's site. Over on a Jeep
site, there is one frequent poster who harps on it as being cheap, but
he seems to be in something of a minority. The welder is at
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...2691_200332691

That sure looks like a Lincoln unit with a yellow paint job...

What's got me really puzzled, though is what I seem to be finding in
the real bottom-feeders of the MIG world (down below the light-duty
welders I'm actually considering): looking at the front panel
of things like the bottom-end Chicago Electric welders at Harbor
Freight, they seem to list a max open circuit voltage, and list
amperages for various switch settings (and also have a continuously
variable wire feed speed) -- looking for all the world like they are
CC machines. Are they, or am I misreading?

One of the major considerations when buying a low end MIG is the weight.
Once it craps out or you can't find parts, you will be using it for a boat
anchor. Buy one with the highest weight.

Buy a good one, and don't look back. A long time from now, it will still
be working and you will be happy you sprung for a good one.

I've been welding since 1974, and that's my opinion. YMMV.

I agree with Steve on this one.

I'm going through this same discussion with a friend who wants to get into
welding as inexpensively as possible. HF does a pretty good job of parts
support on models they currently sell, but once they become obsolete, the
parts supply tends to dry up. Go with a brand name (Miller, Lincoln or
Hobart) that's been around forever and will probably be here to stay.

"It is better to pay too much for something than too little. If you pay too
much, it is generally only a little too much and you are out only that
little. But, if you pay too little, you are apt to find what you bought is
inadequate to the job and you are out the entire amount."

You can save some serious money by shopping around: Home Depot,
Lowes, Tractor Supply, etc., etc. Look at the web and when you find
what you want, print it out. A lot of companies price-match. And a lot
of companies offer things cheaper on the web than in their stores, but, if
you bring the web ad into the store, they'll give you the web price.

Check with your local welding machine distributor as well. They often
get trade ins that may well be within your price range, and have a
much better machine than one from HF..

You want to get a machine from a major manufacturer (even if it's
got a Private Label on it) that will be in business for a while so you
can get repairs and parts for the unit. Without consumable and repair
parts, it becomes worthless fast.

The local welding supply shop may be a bit higher, but when things
go wrong (and they always do...) they are invaluable to be friends
with because they can fix it.

That Northern number is about the bare minimum, and only useful
because 20A 120V is the minimum available at any house or construction
site - those size units are used all the time by gate and fence
installers.

But to do any structural work in your shop, you need to go for a
small to medium 240V unit, and the 185A Miller Challenger is the
smallest practical unit for that, and what I picked. Northern has a
few Hobart's that fit the bill.

If I ever need anything larger, I'll watch for an engine driven
portable welder/generator and put it on a trailer.

If you buy a HF mig...for Croms sake..dont weld up a spare tire
carrier.........

Okay Gunner, you can stop beating yourself up on that one. Rest
assured that we'll do it for you, though... ;-)

Gunner "took a bullet for the team" to remind everyone that even an
expert can FUBAR occasionally... New equipment and not enough
practice with it, he didn't get enough heat into the weld and it
looked good on the outside - but when you hit a bump the base welds on
bracketry get a LOT of stress placed on them due to leverage, and a
less than perfect bead will quickly unzip itself. (I wonder if NASA
ever got that tire on telemetery...)

The key to any welding is getting proper penetration of the base
metals so you have a nice strong weld, and that only comes from lots
of welding practice AND good equipment with enough heat for the job
AND good design to spread the stresses AND good materials AND good
preparation. Fail at any of the above and the weld might look fine,
but fail when placed under stress.

If you don't have all the above in spades, DO NOT do any safety
critical welding yourself, things like trailer hitches and car frames
& roll cages - get your materials all cut and fit together, and tacked
together to make sure they fit and work the way you want it, then get
someone with beaucoup experience to do the final welding.

Either that, or fake up a few test coupons with the same material
in the same configuration, weld them up, and then beat on it hard with
a sledgehammer to proof your design & technique. If the base metal
gives before the welds and only after a lot of abuse, the welds are
good.

-- Bruce --

low-end MIG -- CC?
 

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote:

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 15 Sep 2007, "Jerry Foster" wrote:
"SteveB" wrote...
"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote...

I've been browsing looking at light-duty MIG welders, and I'm coming
up with some questions.

First, does anybody have any opinions on the Northern Tool MIG135?
Looks like a fairly nice, 110V machine capable of either gas or
fluxcore out of the box. The reviews I've seen of it have looked
good, but they've almost all been on Northern's site. Over on a Jeep
site, there is one frequent poster who harps on it as being cheap, but
he seems to be in something of a minority. The welder is at
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...2691_200332691

That sure looks like a Lincoln unit with a yellow paint job...

What's got me really puzzled, though is what I seem to be finding in
the real bottom-feeders of the MIG world (down below the light-duty
welders I'm actually considering): looking at the front panel
of things like the bottom-end Chicago Electric welders at Harbor
Freight, they seem to list a max open circuit voltage, and list
amperages for various switch settings (and also have a continuously
variable wire feed speed) -- looking for all the world like they are
CC machines. Are they, or am I misreading?

One of the major considerations when buying a low end MIG is the weight.
Once it craps out or you can't find parts, you will be using it for a boat
anchor. Buy one with the highest weight.

Buy a good one, and don't look back. A long time from now, it will still
be working and you will be happy you sprung for a good one.

I've been welding since 1974, and that's my opinion. YMMV.

I agree with Steve on this one.

I'm going through this same discussion with a friend who wants to get into
welding as inexpensively as possible. HF does a pretty good job of parts
support on models they currently sell, but once they become obsolete, the
parts supply tends to dry up. Go with a brand name (Miller, Lincoln or
Hobart) that's been around forever and will probably be here to stay.

"It is better to pay too much for something than too little. If you pay too
much, it is generally only a little too much and you are out only that
little. But, if you pay too little, you are apt to find what you bought is
inadequate to the job and you are out the entire amount."

You can save some serious money by shopping around: Home Depot,
Lowes, Tractor Supply, etc., etc. Look at the web and when you find
what you want, print it out. A lot of companies price-match. And a lot
of companies offer things cheaper on the web than in their stores, but, if
you bring the web ad into the store, they'll give you the web price.

Check with your local welding machine distributor as well. They often
get trade ins that may well be within your price range, and have a
much better machine than one from HF..

You want to get a machine from a major manufacturer (even if it's
got a Private Label on it) that will be in business for a while so you
can get repairs and parts for the unit. Without consumable and repair
parts, it becomes worthless fast.

The local welding supply shop may be a bit higher, but when things
go wrong (and they always do...) they are invaluable to be friends
with because they can fix it.

That Northern number is about the bare minimum, and only useful
because 20A 120V is the minimum available at any house or construction
site - those size units are used all the time by gate and fence
installers.

But to do any structural work in your shop, you need to go for a
small to medium 240V unit, and the 185A Miller Challenger is the
smallest practical unit for that, and what I picked. Northern has a
few Hobart's that fit the bill.

If I ever need anything larger, I'll watch for an engine driven
portable welder/generator and put it on a trailer.

If you buy a HF mig...for Croms sake..dont weld up a spare tire
carrier.........

Okay Gunner, you can stop beating yourself up on that one. Rest
assured that we'll do it for you, though... ;-)

Gunner "took a bullet for the team" to remind everyone that even an
expert can FUBAR occasionally... New equipment and not enough
practice with it, he didn't get enough heat into the weld and it
looked good on the outside - but when you hit a bump the base welds on
bracketry get a LOT of stress placed on them due to leverage, and a
less than perfect bead will quickly unzip itself. (I wonder if NASA
ever got that tire on telemetery...)

The key to any welding is getting proper penetration of the base
metals so you have a nice strong weld, and that only comes from lots
of welding practice AND good equipment with enough heat for the job
AND good design to spread the stresses AND good materials AND good
preparation. Fail at any of the above and the weld might look fine,
but fail when placed under stress.

If you don't have all the above in spades, DO NOT do any safety
critical welding yourself, things like trailer hitches and car frames
& roll cages - get your materials all cut and fit together, and tacked
together to make sure they fit and work the way you want it, then get
someone with beaucoup experience to do the final welding.

Either that, or fake up a few test coupons with the same material
in the same configuration, weld them up, and then beat on it hard with
a sledgehammer to proof your design & technique. If the base metal
gives before the welds and only after a lot of abuse, the welds are
good.

-- Bruce --

Key thing to keep in mind - The worse the weldor (you) the better
machine you need. A really good weldor can compensate for and work
around the faults of some pretty bad equipment, but an amateur needs all
the help they can get and fighting an inadequate machine is not helpful.

Pete C.

low-end MIG -- CC?
 

I don't think I was clear enough in my original message -- no, I'm not
looking at any of the real bottom-of-the-barrel machines. Bottom I've
looked at seriously is the Northern Tool; now it turns out that
Electric Arc has what looks like a very nice machine that a local
welding shop is offering for under $500.

What's got me puzzled is the weird stuff that seems to happen down at
the far bottom -- and it looks like these things are screwy to the
point of not even being constant voltage.

low-end MIG -- CC?
 

Bruce L. Bergman writes:

(lots and lots of good advice snipped)

Either that, or fake up a few test coupons with the same material
in the same configuration, weld them up, and then beat on it hard with
a sledgehammer to proof your design & technique. If the base metal
gives before the welds and only after a lot of abuse, the welds are
good.

Thanks -- this is all extremely helpful!

low-end MIG -- CC?
 

In article ,
SteveB wrote:

Buy a good one, and don't look back. A long time from now, it will still be
working and you will be happy you sprung for a good one.

SteveB speaks truth. A lifetime of woodworking has taught me one
important lesson: If you buy a cheap tool, you'll inevitably come
back and buy a good one, so you might as well buy the good one
to start with.

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

low-end MIG -- CC?
 

In article ,
Bruce L. Bergman wrote:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...2691_200332691

That sure looks like a Lincoln unit with a yellow paint job...

If it were really a Lincoln, wouldn't they say so? It's a selling point
after all. More likely they deliberately made a cheap welder to look
like a Lincoln, hoping a few more people would buy it.

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

low-end MIG -- CC?
 

Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article ,
SteveB wrote:
Buy a good one, and don't look back. A long time from now, it will still be
working and you will be happy you sprung for a good one.

SteveB speaks truth. A lifetime of woodworking has taught me one
important lesson: If you buy a cheap tool, you'll inevitably come
back and buy a good one, so you might as well buy the good one
to start with.

I've never thrown an expensive tool
across the shop and yelled "I wished
I'd bought a cheaper tool"....

Usenet quote
author unknown