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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT - Okay...Which One Of You Has Been Borrowing Some Metal? ;)
Thought you might find this of interest...it even deals with METAL!
TMT Kilo prototype mysteriously loses weight By JAMEY KEATEN, Associated Press Writer A kilogram just isn't what it used to be. The 118-year-old cylinder that is the international prototype for the metric mass, kept tightly under lock and key outside Paris, is mysteriously losing weight - if ever so slightly. Physicist Richard Davis of the International Bureau of Weights and Measures in Sevres, southwest of Paris, says the reference kilo appears to have lost 50 micrograms compared with the average of dozens of copies. "The mystery is that they were all made of the same material, and many were made at the same time and kept under the same conditions, and yet the masses among them are slowly drifting apart," he said. "We don't really have a good hypothesis for it." The kilogram's uncertainty could affect even countries that don't use the metric system - it is the ultimate weight standard for the U.S. customary system, where it equals 2.2 pounds. For scientists, the inconstant metric constant is a nuisance, threatening calculation of things like electricity generation. "They depend on a mass measurement and it's inconvenient for them to have a definition of the kilogram which is based on some artifact," said Davis, who is American. But don't expect the slimmed-down kilo to have any effect, other than possibly envy, on wary waistline-watchers: 50 micrograms is roughly equivalent to the weight of a fingerprint. "For the lay person, it won't mean anything," said Davis. "The kilogram will stay the kilogram, and the weights you have in a weight set will all still be correct." Of all the world's kilograms, only the one in Sevres really counts. It is kept in a triple-locked safe at a chateau and rarely sees the light of day - mostly for comparison with other cylinders shipped in periodically from around the world. "It's not clear whether the original has become lighter, or the national prototypes have become heavier," said Michael Borys, a senior researcher with Germany's national measures institute in Braunschweig. "But by definition, only the original represents exactly a kilogram." The kilogram's fluctuation shows how technological progress is leaving science's most basic measurements in its dust. The cylinder was high- tech for its day in 1889 when cast from a platinum and iridium alloy, measuring 1.54 inches in diameter and height. At a November meeting of scientists in Paris, an advisory panel on measurements will present possible steps toward basing the kilogram and other measures - like Kelvin for temperature, and the mole for amount - on more precise calculations. Ultimately, policy makers from around the world would have to agree to any change. Many measurements have undergone makeovers over the years. The meter was once defined as roughly the distance between scratches on a bar, a far cry from today's high-tech standard involving the distance that light travels in a vacuum. One of the leading alternatives for a 21st-century kilogram is a sphere made out of a Silicon-28 isotope crystal, which would involve a single type of atom and have a fixed mass. "We could obviously use a better definition," Davis said. |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT - Okay...Which One Of You Has Been Borrowing Some Metal? ;)
On Sep 12, 12:43 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Thought you might find this of interest...it even deals with METAL! TMT Kilo prototype mysteriously loses weight By JAMEY KEATEN, Associated Press Writer A kilogram just isn't what it used to be. The 118-year-old cylinder that is the international prototype for the metric mass, kept tightly under lock and key outside Paris, is mysteriously losing weight - if ever so slightly. Physicist Richard Davis of the International Bureau of Weights and Measures in Sevres, southwest of Paris, says the reference kilo appears to have lost 50 micrograms compared with the average of dozens of copies. "The mystery is that they were all made of the same material, and many were made at the same time and kept under the same conditions, and yet the masses among them are slowly drifting apart," he said. "We don't really have a good hypothesis for it." The kilogram's uncertainty could affect even countries that don't use the metric system - it is the ultimate weight standard for the U.S. customary system, where it equals 2.2 pounds. For scientists, the inconstant metric constant is a nuisance, threatening calculation of things like electricity generation. "They depend on a mass measurement and it's inconvenient for them to have a definition of the kilogram which is based on some artifact," said Davis, who is American. But don't expect the slimmed-down kilo to have any effect, other than possibly envy, on wary waistline-watchers: 50 micrograms is roughly equivalent to the weight of a fingerprint. "For the lay person, it won't mean anything," said Davis. "The kilogram will stay the kilogram, and the weights you have in a weight set will all still be correct." Of all the world's kilograms, only the one in Sevres really counts. It is kept in a triple-locked safe at a chateau and rarely sees the light of day - mostly for comparison with other cylinders shipped in periodically from around the world. "It's not clear whether the original has become lighter, or the national prototypes have become heavier," said Michael Borys, a senior researcher with Germany's national measures institute in Braunschweig. "But by definition, only the original represents exactly a kilogram." The kilogram's fluctuation shows how technological progress is leaving science's most basic measurements in its dust. The cylinder was high- tech for its day in 1889 when cast from a platinum and iridium alloy, measuring 1.54 inches in diameter and height. At a November meeting of scientists in Paris, an advisory panel on measurements will present possible steps toward basing the kilogram and other measures - like Kelvin for temperature, and the mole for amount - on more precise calculations. Ultimately, policy makers from around the world would have to agree to any change. Many measurements have undergone makeovers over the years. The meter was once defined as roughly the distance between scratches on a bar, a far cry from today's high-tech standard involving the distance that light travels in a vacuum. One of the leading alternatives for a 21st-century kilogram is a sphere made out of a Silicon-28 isotope crystal, which would involve a single type of atom and have a fixed mass. "We could obviously use a better definition," Davis said. What is is that the earth is now spinning faster makeing the unit lighter.... |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT - Okay...Which One Of You Has Been Borrowing Some Metal? ;)
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#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT - Okay...Which One Of You Has Been Borrowing Some Metal? ;)
On Sep 12, 3:43 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Thought you might find this of interest...it even deals with METAL! TMT Kilo prototype mysteriously loses weight By JAMEY KEATEN, Associated Press Writer A kilogram just isn't what it used to be. The 118-year-old cylinder that is the international prototype for the metric mass, kept tightly under lock and key outside Paris, is mysteriously losing weight - if ever so slightly. Physicist Richard Davis of the International Bureau of Weights and Measures in Sevres, southwest of Paris, says the reference kilo appears to have lost 50 micrograms compared with the average of dozens of copies. "The mystery is that they were all made of the same material, and many were made at the same time and kept under the same conditions, and yet the masses among them are slowly drifting apart," he said. "We don't really have a good hypothesis for it." The kilogram's uncertainty could affect even countries that don't use the metric system - it is the ultimate weight standard for the U.S. customary system, where it equals 2.2 pounds. For scientists, the inconstant metric constant is a nuisance, threatening calculation of things like electricity generation. "They depend on a mass measurement and it's inconvenient for them to have a definition of the kilogram which is based on some artifact," said Davis, who is American. But don't expect the slimmed-down kilo to have any effect, other than possibly envy, on wary waistline-watchers: 50 micrograms is roughly equivalent to the weight of a fingerprint. "For the lay person, it won't mean anything," said Davis. "The kilogram will stay the kilogram, and the weights you have in a weight set will all still be correct." Of all the world's kilograms, only the one in Sevres really counts. It is kept in a triple-locked safe at a chateau and rarely sees the light of day - mostly for comparison with other cylinders shipped in periodically from around the world. "It's not clear whether the original has become lighter, or the national prototypes have become heavier," said Michael Borys, a senior researcher with Germany's national measures institute in Braunschweig. "But by definition, only the original represents exactly a kilogram." The kilogram's fluctuation shows how technological progress is leaving science's most basic measurements in its dust. The cylinder was high- tech for its day in 1889 when cast from a platinum and iridium alloy, measuring 1.54 inches in diameter and height. At a November meeting of scientists in Paris, an advisory panel on measurements will present possible steps toward basing the kilogram and other measures - like Kelvin for temperature, and the mole for amount - on more precise calculations. Ultimately, policy makers from around the world would have to agree to any change. Many measurements have undergone makeovers over the years. The meter was once defined as roughly the distance between scratches on a bar, a far cry from today's high-tech standard involving the distance that light travels in a vacuum. One of the leading alternatives for a 21st-century kilogram is a sphere made out of a Silicon-28 isotope crystal, which would involve a single type of atom and have a fixed mass. "We could obviously use a better definition," Davis said. i thought the definition of a kilogram was supposed to change as soon as they knew exactly how many atoms there were in a mole at that point it would become easy to define the kilogram as an exact amount of atoms of a given element (I had originally heard the suggestion as Carbon 12) I would assume an element that works out to a nice even number would be best like say helium where although my knowledge of chemistry has slipped exactly 250 moles of He should be a kilogram? or some similar measurement. Knowing the number of atoms in a mole would then let you determine the number of atoms of a given element to a kilogram thereby giving a standard kilogram defined in nature rather than by artifact in theory it would allow the "mass production" of standard kilograms (At least compared to the current number of standards) and would allow anyone needing one to get a high precision kilogram if their activities required it, Not necessarily perfect but very close |
#5
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OT - Okay...Which One Of You Has Been Borrowing Some Metal? ;)
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Thought you might find this of interest...it even deals with METAL! So someone wiped a finger print off? |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT - Okay...Which One Of You Has Been Borrowing Some Metal? ;)
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:43:50 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote: "The mystery is that they were all made of the same material, and many were made at the same time and kept under the same conditions, and yet the masses among them are slowly drifting apart," he said. "We don't really have a good hypothesis for it." Evaporation Gunner |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT - Okay...Which One Of You Has Been Borrowing Some Metal? ;)
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 23:26:47 -0700, Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:43:50 -0700, Too_Many_Tools wrote: "The mystery is that they were all made of the same material, and many were made at the same time and kept under the same conditions, and yet the masses among them are slowly drifting apart," he said. "We don't really have a good hypothesis for it." Evaporation Leave it to the french to **** up the most basic of responsibilities. |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT - Okay...Which One Of You Has Been Borrowing Some Metal? ;)
Gunner wrote:
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:43:50 -0700, Too_Many_Tools wrote: "The mystery is that they were all made of the same material, and many were made at the same time and kept under the same conditions, and yet the masses among them are slowly drifting apart," he said. "We don't really have a good hypothesis for it." Evaporation Sublimation. John Gunner |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT - Okay...Which One Of You Has Been Borrowing Some Metal? ;)
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message oups.com... Thought you might find this of interest...it even deals with METAL! TMT Kilo prototype mysteriously loses weight By JAMEY KEATEN, Associated Press Writer A kilogram just isn't what it used to be. The 118-year-old cylinder that is the international prototype for the metric mass, kept tightly under lock and key outside Paris, is mysteriously losing weight - if ever so slightly. Physicist Richard Davis of the International Bureau of Weights and Measures in Sevres, southwest of Paris, says the reference kilo appears to have lost 50 micrograms compared with the average of dozens of copies. "The mystery is that they were all made of the same material, and many were made at the same time and kept under the same conditions, and yet the masses among them are slowly drifting apart," he said. "We don't really have a good hypothesis for it." The kilogram's uncertainty could affect even countries that don't use the metric system - it is the ultimate weight standard for the U.S. customary system, where it equals 2.2 pounds. For scientists, the inconstant metric constant is a nuisance, threatening calculation of things like electricity generation. "They depend on a mass measurement and it's inconvenient for them to have a definition of the kilogram which is based on some artifact," said Davis, who is American. But don't expect the slimmed-down kilo to have any effect, other than possibly envy, on wary waistline-watchers: 50 micrograms is roughly equivalent to the weight of a fingerprint. "For the lay person, it won't mean anything," said Davis. "The kilogram will stay the kilogram, and the weights you have in a weight set will all still be correct." Of all the world's kilograms, only the one in Sevres really counts. It is kept in a triple-locked safe at a chateau and rarely sees the light of day - mostly for comparison with other cylinders shipped in periodically from around the world. "It's not clear whether the original has become lighter, or the national prototypes have become heavier," said Michael Borys, a senior researcher with Germany's national measures institute in Braunschweig. "But by definition, only the original represents exactly a kilogram." The kilogram's fluctuation shows how technological progress is leaving science's most basic measurements in its dust. The cylinder was high- tech for its day in 1889 when cast from a platinum and iridium alloy, measuring 1.54 inches in diameter and height. At a November meeting of scientists in Paris, an advisory panel on measurements will present possible steps toward basing the kilogram and other measures - like Kelvin for temperature, and the mole for amount - on more precise calculations. Ultimately, policy makers from around the world would have to agree to any change. Many measurements have undergone makeovers over the years. The meter was once defined as roughly the distance between scratches on a bar, a far cry from today's high-tech standard involving the distance that light travels in a vacuum. One of the leading alternatives for a 21st-century kilogram is a sphere made out of a Silicon-28 isotope crystal, which would involve a single type of atom and have a fixed mass. "We could obviously use a better definition," Davis said. The reality of the physical world is that nothing is absolutely stable in regards to any of its properties. Gage blocks get smaller and larger and mass standards also vary. That is why you have master standards (which vary less) and calibration programs. The exact mechanisms of some of these variations is not well understood. If any two things seem to be identical it is only because you do not have equipment sensitive enough to detect the differences. Don Young |
#10
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OT - Okay...Which One Of You Has Been Borrowing Some Metal? ;)
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:21:08 -0400, JohnM wrote:
Gunner wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:43:50 -0700, Too_Many_Tools wrote: "The mystery is that they were all made of the same material, and many were made at the same time and kept under the same conditions, and yet the masses among them are slowly drifting apart," he said. "We don't really have a good hypothesis for it." Evaporation Sublimation. Much more accurate a term. Indeed. John Gunner |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT - Okay...Which One Of You Has Been Borrowing Some Metal? ;)
Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:21:08 -0400, JohnM wrote: Gunner wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:43:50 -0700, Too_Many_Tools wrote: "The mystery is that they were all made of the same material, and many were made at the same time and kept under the same conditions, and yet the masses among them are slowly drifting apart," he said. "We don't really have a good hypothesis for it." Evaporation Sublimation. Much more accurate a term. Indeed. Wonder if they're keeping it under vacuum.. John Gunner |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT - Okay...Which One Of You Has Been Borrowing Some Metal? ;)
After a Computer crash and the demise of civilization, it was learned
JohnM wrote on Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:21:08 -0400 in rec.crafts.metalworking : Gunner wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:43:50 -0700, Too_Many_Tools wrote: "The mystery is that they were all made of the same material, and many were made at the same time and kept under the same conditions, and yet the masses among them are slowly drifting apart," he said. "We don't really have a good hypothesis for it." Evaporation Sublimation. Well, of course, some people can't adjust, others ... Oh, not talking about psychology? Never mind ... John Gunner -- pyotr filipivich "Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. " Lucius Annaeus Seneca, circa 45 AD (A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.) |
#13
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OT - Okay...Which One Of You Has Been Borrowing Some Metal? ;)
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 02:48:36 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote: After a Computer crash and the demise of civilization, it was learned JohnM wrote on Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:21:08 -0400 in rec.crafts.metalworking : Gunner wrote: On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:43:50 -0700, Too_Many_Tools wrote: "The mystery is that they were all made of the same material, and many were made at the same time and kept under the same conditions, and yet the masses among them are slowly drifting apart," he said. "We don't really have a good hypothesis for it." Evaporation Sublimation. Well, of course, some people can't adjust, others ... Oh, not talking about psychology? Never mind ... ROFLMAO!!! Gunner |
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