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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Way OT Shotgun question
I just bought a Mossberg HS410 for my family (my youngest kid is 12, so
I wanted a smaller gun) and was looking for a folding stock that is adjustable in length. There's a few for Mossberg bigger gages, but I haven't been able to find one for this one. Is anyone aware of one that I haven't found, or one that can be made to fit? There's a good bit of difference in the sizes of the folks in my family, from 5'3" to 6'1", so a comfortable stock will help a lot at the range. |
#2
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Way OT Shotgun question
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:10:05 -0700, "Carl McIver"
wrote: I just bought a Mossberg HS410 for my family (my youngest kid is 12, so I wanted a smaller gun) and was looking for a folding stock that is adjustable in length. There's a few for Mossberg bigger gages, but I haven't been able to find one for this one. Is anyone aware of one that I haven't found, or one that can be made to fit? There's a good bit of difference in the sizes of the folks in my family, from 5'3" to 6'1", so a comfortable stock will help a lot at the range. Carl..you should have bought a 20 ga. It kicks Less than a 410 on average. Felt recoil is less..and it packs a **** load more shot. Gunner |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Way OT Shotgun question
Carl..you should have bought a 20 ga. It kicks Less than a 410 on average. Felt recoil is less..and it packs a **** load more shot. Na, I cut my teeth on a .410. The kids in town got a BB gun. Dad got me a ..410. Most fun gun I ever had. Wish I still owned it. Taught me to shoot quickly before the bird is out of range. To the OP, couldn't you modify the stock you got? Saw stock to shortest length you want. Make lengths to bolt back on. Kinda like leafs in a table. OTOH, I just learned to use that .410 as it was, my finger could hardly reach the trigger at first. Karl |
#4
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Way OT Shotgun question
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:23:15 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Karl Townsend" quickly quoth: Carl..you should have bought a 20 ga. It kicks Less than a 410 on average. Felt recoil is less..and it packs a **** load more shot. Na, I cut my teeth on a .410. The kids in town got a BB gun. Dad got me a .410. Most fun gun I ever had. Wish I still owned it. Taught me to shoot quickly before the bird is out of range. To the OP, couldn't you modify the stock you got? Saw stock to shortest length you want. Make lengths to bolt back on. Kinda like leafs in a table. You might want to qualify that, Karl, by mentioning that he should make sure that sawing off the stock won't put the gun into the too-short league where they'd have the BATFE down their throats. -- The only place you will be accepted is the place you make for yourself. -- Holly Lisle, Fire In The Mist, 1992 |
#5
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Way OT Shotgun question
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 06:11:19 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:23:15 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Karl Townsend" quickly quoth: Carl..you should have bought a 20 ga. It kicks Less than a 410 on average. Felt recoil is less..and it packs a **** load more shot. Na, I cut my teeth on a .410. The kids in town got a BB gun. Dad got me a .410. Most fun gun I ever had. Wish I still owned it. Taught me to shoot quickly before the bird is out of range. To the OP, couldn't you modify the stock you got? Saw stock to shortest length you want. Make lengths to bolt back on. Kinda like leafs in a table. You might want to qualify that, Karl, by mentioning that he should make sure that sawing off the stock won't put the gun into the too-short league where they'd have the BATFE down their throats. Do they look at the overall length of the gun, or just the barrel length. -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consulting http://www.wescottdesign.com Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html |
#6
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Way OT Shotgun question
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 02:28:20 -0700, Gunner wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 21:10:05 -0700, "Carl McIver" wrote: I just bought a Mossberg HS410 for my family (my youngest kid is 12, so I wanted a smaller gun) and was looking for a folding stock that is adjustable in length. There's a few for Mossberg bigger gages, but I haven't been able to find one for this one. Is anyone aware of one that I haven't found, or one that can be made to fit? There's a good bit of difference in the sizes of the folks in my family, from 5'3" to 6'1", so a comfortable stock will help a lot at the range. Carl..you should have bought a 20 ga. It kicks Less than a 410 on average. Felt recoil is less..and it packs a **** load more shot. Gunner OK. The only guns that I've shot are ones that I made, and they involved "gun powder" that I made from match heads -- so I'm no expert. If a 20 gauge has less recoil and more shot than a 410, doesn't that mean that the muzzle velocity, and hence range, is much lower? My brain is coming up with some lame physicists humor here where you pull the trigger and lead slowly barfs out of the muzzle over 10 seconds or so... -- Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consulting http://www.wescottdesign.com Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Way OT Shotgun question
In article , Tim Wescott wrote:
If a 20 gauge has less recoil and more shot than a 410, doesn't that mean that the muzzle velocity, and hence range, is much lower? My brain is coming up with some lame physicists humor here where you pull the trigger and lead slowly barfs out of the muzzle over 10 seconds or so... Felt recoil depends not only on the powder charge and projectile mass, but also on the mass of the weapon itself: all other things being equal, the heavier the weapon, the lighter the recoil. Most .410s are pretty lightweight guns. Felt recoil is also a very subjective thing. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
#8
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Way OT Shotgun question
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message ... On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 06:11:19 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:23:15 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Karl Townsend" quickly quoth: Carl..you should have bought a 20 ga. It kicks Less than a 410 on average. Felt recoil is less..and it packs a **** load more shot. Na, I cut my teeth on a .410. The kids in town got a BB gun. Dad got me a .410. Most fun gun I ever had. Wish I still owned it. Taught me to shoot quickly before the bird is out of range. To the OP, couldn't you modify the stock you got? Saw stock to shortest length you want. Make lengths to bolt back on. Kinda like leafs in a table. You might want to qualify that, Karl, by mentioning that he should make sure that sawing off the stock won't put the gun into the too-short league where they'd have the BATFE down their throats. Do they look at the overall length of the gun, or just the barrel length. 18" barrel length, 26" overall, unless the thing never had a buttstock, in which case it's a smooth-bore pistol. Other stuff for muzzleloaders, and other stuff by state laws. -- Ed Huntress |
#9
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Way OT Shotgun question
Felt recoil is also a very subjective thing.
if you're a ten year kid that just got his first duck, quail, pheasant you wouldn't have felt the kick even it it was an elephant gun. Karl |
#10
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Way OT Shotgun question
In article s.com, "Karl Townsend" wrote:
Felt recoil is also a very subjective thing. if you're a ten year kid that just got his first duck, quail, pheasant you wouldn't have felt the kick even it it was an elephant gun. Bingo! I hunt deer and rabbit with a 12-ga that kicks pretty damn hard on a firing range. Oddly enough, it doesn't seem to kick at all in the field. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again. |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Way OT Shotgun question
"Carl McIver" wrote in message ... I just bought a Mossberg HS410 for my family (my youngest kid is 12, so I wanted a smaller gun) and was looking for a folding stock that is adjustable in length. There's a few for Mossberg bigger gages, but I haven't been able to find one for this one. Is anyone aware of one that I haven't found, or one that can be made to fit? There's a good bit of difference in the sizes of the folks in my family, from 5'3" to 6'1", so a comfortable stock will help a lot at the range. Take it to a gunsmith, and they will show you how to measure the boy. This will be helpful because he will soon need a longer stock as he grows, and you can buy butt pads and slip over recoil pads that will build up what you will be cutting off now. Replacing the whole stock would not be advisable because he is going to grow each year. He's not going to be shooting enough that it has to be exact, so close enough is okay. When he is old enough and stops growing, it'll be way past time to buy another gun. This one will look funny with all the extensions and butt pads on it. Measuring stock length is something a gunsmith can do, as well as cutting down a stock. Trouble is, the gun is usually set up for only one person, and for another to fit it is just a lucky occurrence. One size does not fit all, but close enough is close enough. Lots of guns are sold with standard length stocks, but if a guy shoots a lot, they will soon have it custom cut. If you don't shoot a lot, it's hard to notice the difference or even know that stocks are custom cut for each person. And, if you don't want to go through all the rigamarole, just keep the stock stock and each person will have to adjust personally on how to shoot it and hit their target. Adjustable folding stocks are mostly available on law enforcement and military models, and not a lot on hunting models. |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Way OT Shotgun question
"SteveB" wrote in message
... "Carl McIver" wrote in message ... I just bought a Mossberg HS410 for my family (my youngest kid is 12, so I wanted a smaller gun) and was looking for a folding stock that is adjustable in length. There's a few for Mossberg bigger gages, but I haven't been able to find one for this one. Is anyone aware of one that I haven't found, or one that can be made to fit? There's a good bit of difference in the sizes of the folks in my family, from 5'3" to 6'1", so a comfortable stock will help a lot at the range. Take it to a gunsmith, and they will show you how to measure the boy. This will be helpful because he will soon need a longer stock as he grows, and you can buy butt pads and slip over recoil pads that will build up what you will be cutting off now. Replacing the whole stock would not be advisable because he is going to grow each year. He's not going to be shooting enough that it has to be exact, so close enough is okay. When he is old enough and stops growing, it'll be way past time to buy another gun. This one will look funny with all the extensions and butt pads on it. Measuring stock length is something a gunsmith can do, as well as cutting down a stock. Trouble is, the gun is usually set up for only one person, and for another to fit it is just a lucky occurrence. One size does not fit all, but close enough is close enough. Lots of guns are sold with standard length stocks, but if a guy shoots a lot, they will soon have it custom cut. If you don't shoot a lot, it's hard to notice the difference or even know that stocks are custom cut for each person. And, if you don't want to go through all the rigamarole, just keep the stock stock and each person will have to adjust personally on how to shoot it and hit their target. Adjustable folding stocks are mostly available on law enforcement and military models, and not a lot on hunting models. My two elementary school daughters are about an inch shorter than my wife at the current point (who's 5'4") and my two sons are gaining on me fast (I'm 6'1") so the adjustable stock is something to make it easier for all of us at the range. Mossberg has some tactical shotguns with the adjustable stock already, but the gun shop I bought the .410 from was going to have to do some research to find out if they can get one for it. I don't want the stock length to be an issue for any of us, and by being able to set it to the user's preference, we all win. This has to be a one size fits all arrangement, and when fit is hitting the shan, the last thing they need to think about is stock length, which is one reason I've considered a basic pistol grip rear, but I haven't fully decided on that one yet. Choice of bore is a highly personal decision, and there's lots of opinion on both sides of the fence, so that issue will never be settled. I was originally going to get a 12 ga, but I don't want to make the girls afraid of the recoil or the report when they pull the trigger, so it's a concession on my part. When I was growing up, I got a Savage .410 for my 11th birthday, and my friend down the road used to go wasting our daddys' ammo with it on summer afternoons. He was a skinny little guy, and had a 12 ga, so after he had a chance to play with my "toy" we usually carried each other's gun, as the 12 ga did a number on him after awhile. The .410 my father had (very long barrel) had accuracy that larger bores couldn't keep up with, so I grew up with a lot of respect for that choice. There's a lot more to that, obviously, but I don't get to hunt, and this is strictly for home defense. |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Way OT Shotgun question
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:12:46 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote: On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 06:11:19 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:23:15 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Karl Townsend" quickly quoth: Carl..you should have bought a 20 ga. It kicks Less than a 410 on average. Felt recoil is less..and it packs a **** load more shot. Na, I cut my teeth on a .410. The kids in town got a BB gun. Dad got me a .410. Most fun gun I ever had. Wish I still owned it. Taught me to shoot quickly before the bird is out of range. To the OP, couldn't you modify the stock you got? Saw stock to shortest length you want. Make lengths to bolt back on. Kinda like leafs in a table. You might want to qualify that, Karl, by mentioning that he should make sure that sawing off the stock won't put the gun into the too-short league where they'd have the BATFE down their throats. Do they look at the overall length of the gun, or just the barrel length. 26" overall, and 18" from the muzzle to the bolt face with the action closed. Rifles are 16" to the bolt face Gunner, who always leaves .250 long |
#14
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Way OT Shotgun question
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:17:52 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote: Take it to a gunsmith, and they will show you how to measure the boy. The average rule of thumb, for the average shooter, is to place the butt stock in the crook of your elbow and measure to the middle joint of the trigger finger. This is a rough but generally accurate measurement of "length of pull" This will be helpful because he will soon need a longer stock as he grows, and you can buy butt pads and slip over recoil pads that will build up what you will be cutting off now. Replacing the whole stock would not be advisable because he is going to grow each year. He's not going to be shooting enough that it has to be exact, so close enough is okay. When he is old enough and stops growing, it'll be way past time to buy another gun. This one will look funny with all the extensions and butt pads on it. Good stuff. This btw..is the reason you NEVER buy a synthetic stocked arm for a youth. Only wood ones. Gunner |
#15
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Way OT Shotgun question
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:16:33 -0700, "Carl McIver"
wrote: This has to be a one size fits all arrangement, and when fit is hitting the shan, the last thing they need to think about is stock length, which is one reason I've considered a basic pistol grip rear, but I haven't fully decided on that one yet. Buy a second shotgun and cut it down for the wimmin folks. You only put one life preserver in a boat? Take my advise..DONT go for the pistol grip. It was invented for up close and personal..and the gulible who watch too many Hollywierd movies. Gunner |
#16
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Way OT Shotgun question
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:16:33 -0700, "Carl McIver"
wrote: Choice of bore is a highly personal decision, and there's lots of opinion on both sides of the fence, so that issue will never be settled. I was originally going to get a 12 ga, but I don't want to make the girls afraid of the recoil or the report when they pull the trigger, so it's a concession on my part. Did you even consider a 20 ga? You should do so. Gunner |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Way OT Shotgun question
On Sep 10, 10:10 pm, "Carl McIver" wrote:
I just bought a Mossberg HS410 for my family (my youngest kid is 12, so I wanted a smaller gun) and was looking for a folding stock that is adjustable in length. There's a few for Mossberg bigger gages, but I haven't been able to find one for this one. Is anyone aware of one that I haven't found, or one that can be made to fit? There's a good bit of difference in the sizes of the folks in my family, from 5'3" to 6'1", so a comfortable stock will help a lot at the range. There's a bunch of adapters out there for telescoping M4 carbine butt stocks to adapt them to a number of different long guns, have even seen them for 10/22s. This is an ideal solution for this sort of thing, they've got 6 positions. Might not be an adapter or stock set for your particular gun, but this IS a metalworking group, after all. Might be you can make something that would be saleable. Downside is that you'll have about as much in the buttstock as the whole gun is worth. Look up "tactical", "shotgun" and "buttstock" on google, you'll probably get some ideas. The other thing to watch out for is some states have laws against "evil" features like folding stocks. Don't know if the M4 stock would qualify, but you don't want some Barney Fife trying to find out, either. Mossberg has youth stocks available for some models, you can contact them directly to see if they have one for your gun. Stan |
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