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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#41
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
Brent wrote:
On Sep 11, 11:05 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote: On Sep 11, 8:02 am, "Pete C." wrote: Too_Many_Tools wrote: On Sep 10, 5:42 pm, "Pete C." wrote: "Wayne C. Gramlich" wrote: Brent wrote: [snip] The container is delivered and resting on eight pads made up of a pair of 4 inch solid concrete blocks. For the most part not all are touching but if there is any settling the open ones will start taking the load When it is time to ship the container, how hard is it for a shipper to pick it up off the concrete pads? Is this a "standard procedure" or "time to rent a special crane" or "something else"? [snip] Thanks, -Wayne Easy to pick up. For non port pickup and delivery of containers hydraulic tilting flatbed trailers with big winches are the norm. They could very easily drag the container onto the trailer as is, or for a little more refinement jack the container off the blocks and onto some pipe rollers first.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Good point....maybe now is a good time to attach the machines to a false floor so if and when you move later they are already secured. TMT False floor??? The container floor is already 25mm hardwood plywood over steel C channel on about 12" centers. Bolt directly through that floor, can use big washers or load plates underneath as well.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I mention a false floor because metalworking machines can be heavy...very heavy. If I had a Bridgeport in such container, I would want it securely attached to the floor when the container was relocated. Also a false floor allows one to rearrange machinery without butchering up the main flooring and allows one the ability to run cables and ducts under it. TMT TMT I have an Index Model 45 its about bridgeport sized maybe a bit bogger and i DO share your concerns about bolting it but i will need to both BOLT and level it and right now it has levelling screws in the base. but since moving the container is a Secondary concern to making it into a valid shop for now i'm not THAT worried about how to bolt it to the floor for another year or so. also if there is to be any settling i expect it to happen inthe first winter and spring and i will need to likely re-levle the machine once the ground thaws Enlarge the base mounting holes as necessary, tap them and then use hollow leveling bolts with second anchor bolts through them. Washer plates on top of the floor for the leveling bolts to run on of course. Re-level with any container shifts without removing the anchor bolts. My Clausing lathe uses this type of mounting to it's stand. |
#42
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
Brent wrote:
On Sep 11, 11:30 pm, "Pete C." wrote: Nick Mueller wrote: Pete C. wrote: An insulated container that is kept at a controlled interior temperature will not experience this issue any more than a house maintained at a controlled interior temperature will. Sorry, wrong. You do have a temperature gradient looking at a section through the wall. At the place where the temperature drops below the dew-point, you'll get condensation. Preferably, that happens within the insulation-material, supposing it can retain and transport humidity. If that is not the case you get condensation. And this will be exactly at the inside of the metal container. Styrofoam and that stuff glued to the inside of a wall is *the* *worst* you can do. Except you are out for mushrooms. Moisture doesn't magically appear to condense, it has to come from somewhere. Neither the steel container, not extruded polystyrene insulation are permeable so nothing of significance is going to happen in the space between them. The interior surface is very unlikely to be at dew point in a conditioned space so nothing is likely to happen there either. The difference to a house is, that the dew-point is *in* the brick-wall (oh, you know what this is? G) and the brick can transport humidity to the outside, especially if there is a humidity-stopping layer (or not as good transporting, or much longer distance) on the inside of the wall. You get a much better climate and much less humidity this way. No dehumidifier needed. Again with the steel container, EPS insulation and FRP paneling you have a triple layer vapor barrier. Moisture outside stays outside, moisture inside stays inside (normal vents remove it). The only source of moisture in the container will be one human intermittently working in it, something normal ventilation will readily handle. Sorry, wrong again. Relative humidity is the point. Warm outside, cool inside and you ventilate - moisture inside. Just have a look at the water running out of A/Cs. Look at moisture running out of an A/C after it has been running in an enclosed space for a while, and dehumidifying the space. Unless you're doing something really stupid to allow a lot of moisture into the space, it will remain dry and the A/C will operate more efficiently since it won't have the added load of condensing moisture out of the air as well as cooling the air. OK so in my situation i could use a little feedback here there are 4 passive vents in the corners of my container Same on my non insulated 40' container. It sits through new england seasons and has yet to have a moisture problem inside. i know i'l likely need to leave these vents through but they will allow humidity to enter too Loose those vents, they won't be adequate for your intended use. Install "real" venting in the form of RV vents, regular roof vents, or similar. Because of my Climate i know i will need both Heating and Air conditioning Nick's statements about the dewpoint are valid the Container cools faster than the ambient air once the sun is down so it will draw dew if it cools past the dewpoint i will need to seal the inside walls with a vapor barrier that is a given and i will need ot take steps to de-humidify the shop. You *do not* need a vapor barrier, it will accomplish absolutely nothing. A vapor barrier is used in residential frame construction because the wall materials are all permeable, steel is *not* permeable, nor is extruded polystyrene insulation, nor FRP paneling. the AC itself I primarily use to drop the humidity to make work bearable rather than needing the temperature itself to dropit seems that using Styrofoam the possibly after the electric is run to call in a sprayfoam guy to seal behind it. Run electrical in surface mounted EMT conduit. See the great power upgrade 2006 on my site: http://wpnet.us for an example. There is no reason to seal behind the polystyrene insulation that you glue in place, other than for additional insulation and even that is marginal. The cavities formed behind the insulation are sealed chambers assuming you make proper use of the adhesive. None of the materials involved are moisture permeable and the humidity in that chamber will always be the same as the day it was sealed. Should i fork over a little more for an AC to let it automatically run to prevent condensation? A separate dehumidifier if you find a need for it after you've completed the rest and monitored it for a while. The separate dehumidifier will function when heated in the winter to remove moisture tracked in from snow on your boots. Even if i'm not there if it senses that the dewpoint could be exceeded it will trigger and dehumidify the shop? Yes, separate dehumidifier. Before spending money on it however, spend the $30 for a temp / humidity gauge with min/max and see what the spans really are. I'm investigating elsewhere too but there are no container conversion experts local to me. If i have to do something fancy to prevent condensation so be it, my tools are worth an ounce of prevention and a few dollars of dehumidifier runtime Again, review what I've posted and just monitor to see if you have an actual issue. Residential wood frames, plywood or OSB sheathing, fiberglass insulation and drywall are all moisture permeable, steel, EPS insulation and FRP panels are not. |
#43
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
"Pete C." wrote:
Brent wrote: I'm investigating elsewhere too but there are no container conversion experts local to me. A container is no different than any other steel framed, steel skinned structure - nothing magical. Just contact any of the numerous steel building companies and ask them how they handle insulation and climate control in one of their smaller buildings. |
#44
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Sep 11, 11:34 pm, (DoN. Nichols) wrote:
According to Brent : [ ... ] I am a big fan of overbuilding and already i'm not looking forward to the budget preventing me form putting in windows this winter Might I suggest that each window have an opaque panel which could be swung in place or inserted to keep people from being able to see what is in there when things are closed up? No sense in tempting people -- depending on your neighborhood, of course. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- Good suggestion. TMT |
#45
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Sep 12, 12:11 pm, Brent wrote:
On Sep 11, 11:05 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote: On Sep 11, 8:02 am, "Pete C." wrote: Too_Many_Tools wrote: On Sep 10, 5:42 pm, "Pete C." wrote: "Wayne C. Gramlich" wrote: Brent wrote: [snip] The container is delivered and resting on eight pads made up of a pair of 4 inch solid concrete blocks. For the most part not all are touching but if there is any settling the open ones will start taking the load When it is time to ship the container, how hard is it for a shipper to pick it up off the concrete pads? Is this a "standard procedure" or "time to rent a special crane" or "something else"? [snip] Thanks, -Wayne Easy to pick up. For non port pickup and delivery of containers hydraulic tilting flatbed trailers with big winches are the norm. They could very easily drag the container onto the trailer as is, or for a little more refinement jack the container off the blocks and onto some pipe rollers first.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Good point....maybe now is a good time to attach the machines to a false floor so if and when you move later they are already secured. TMT False floor??? The container floor is already 25mm hardwood plywood over steel C channel on about 12" centers. Bolt directly through that floor, can use big washers or load plates underneath as well.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I mention a false floor because metalworking machines can be heavy...very heavy. If I had a Bridgeport in such container, I would want it securely attached to the floor when the container was relocated. Also a false floor allows one to rearrange machinery without butchering up the main flooring and allows one the ability to run cables and ducts under it. TMT TMT I have an Index Model 45 its about bridgeport sized maybe a bit bogger and i DO share your concerns about bolting it but i will need to both BOLT and level it and right now it has levelling screws in the base. but since moving the container is a Secondary concern to making it into a valid shop for now i'm not THAT worried about how to bolt it to the floor for another year or so. also if there is to be any settling i expect it to happen inthe first winter and spring and i will need to likely re-levle the machine once the ground thaws- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I understand...I would not be paranoid about it but it is SO MUCH EASIER to do this type of thing before the shop is FULL of tools...guess how I know? ;) Placing a mounting point in the back of the container will allow you to use a winch to drag new items into the shop also. TMT TMT |
#46
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Sep 12, 12:41 pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Brent wrote: On Sep 11, 11:30 pm, "Pete C." wrote: Nick Mueller wrote: Pete C. wrote: An insulated container that is kept at a controlled interior temperature will not experience this issue any more than a house maintained at a controlled interior temperature will. Sorry, wrong. You do have a temperature gradient looking at a section through the wall. At the place where the temperature drops below the dew-point, you'll get condensation. Preferably, that happens within the insulation-material, supposing it can retain and transport humidity. If that is not the case you get condensation. And this will be exactly at the inside of the metal container. Styrofoam and that stuff glued to the inside of a wall is *the* *worst* you can do. Except you are out for mushrooms. Moisture doesn't magically appear to condense, it has to come from somewhere. Neither the steel container, not extruded polystyrene insulation are permeable so nothing of significance is going to happen in the space between them. The interior surface is very unlikely to be at dew point in a conditioned space so nothing is likely to happen there either. The difference to a house is, that the dew-point is *in* the brick-wall (oh, you know what this is? G) and the brick can transport humidity to the outside, especially if there is a humidity-stopping layer (or not as good transporting, or much longer distance) on the inside of the wall. You get a much better climate and much less humidity this way. No dehumidifier needed. Again with the steel container, EPS insulation and FRP paneling you have a triple layer vapor barrier. Moisture outside stays outside, moisture inside stays inside (normal vents remove it). The only source of moisture in the container will be one human intermittently working in it, something normal ventilation will readily handle. Sorry, wrong again. Relative humidity is the point. Warm outside, cool inside and you ventilate - moisture inside. Just have a look at the water running out of A/Cs. Look at moisture running out of an A/C after it has been running in an enclosed space for a while, and dehumidifying the space. Unless you're doing something really stupid to allow a lot of moisture into the space, it will remain dry and the A/C will operate more efficiently since it won't have the added load of condensing moisture out of the air as well as cooling the air. OK so in my situation i could use a little feedback here there are 4 passive vents in the corners of my container Same on my non insulated 40' container. It sits through new england seasons and has yet to have a moisture problem inside. i know i'l likely need to leave these vents through but they will allow humidity to enter too Loose those vents, they won't be adequate for your intended use. Install "real" venting in the form of RV vents, regular roof vents, or similar. Because of my Climate i know i will need both Heating and Air conditioning Nick's statements about the dewpoint are valid the Container cools faster than the ambient air once the sun is down so it will draw dew if it cools past the dewpoint i will need to seal the inside walls with a vapor barrier that is a given and i will need ot take steps to de-humidify the shop. You *do not* need a vapor barrier, it will accomplish absolutely nothing. A vapor barrier is used in residential frame construction because the wall materials are all permeable, steel is *not* permeable, nor is extruded polystyrene insulation, nor FRP paneling. the AC itself I primarily use to drop the humidity to make work bearable rather than needing the temperature itself to dropit seems that using Styrofoam the possibly after the electric is run to call in a sprayfoam guy to seal behind it. Run electrical in surface mounted EMT conduit. See the great power upgrade 2006 on my site:http://wpnet.usfor an example. There is no reason to seal behind the polystyrene insulation that you glue in place, other than for additional insulation and even that is marginal. The cavities formed behind the insulation are sealed chambers assuming you make proper use of the adhesive. None of the materials involved are moisture permeable and the humidity in that chamber will always be the same as the day it was sealed. Should i fork over a little more for an AC to let it automatically run to prevent condensation? A separate dehumidifier if you find a need for it after you've completed the rest and monitored it for a while. The separate dehumidifier will function when heated in the winter to remove moisture tracked in from snow on your boots. Even if i'm not there if it senses that the dewpoint could be exceeded it will trigger and dehumidify the shop? Yes, separate dehumidifier. Before spending money on it however, spend the $30 for a temp / humidity gauge with min/max and see what the spans really are. I'm investigating elsewhere too but there are no container conversion experts local to me. If i have to do something fancy to prevent condensation so be it, my tools are worth an ounce of prevention and a few dollars of dehumidifier runtime Again, review what I've posted and just monitor to see if you have an actual issue. Residential wood frames, plywood or OSB sheathing, fiberglass insulation and drywall are all moisture permeable, steel, EPS insulation and FRP panels are not.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Try to hang heating, A/C, dehumifier, dust control from the ceiling....floor space is reserved for the heavy stuff. TMT |
#47
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
In article . com,
Brent wrote: Might I suggest that each window have an opaque panel which could be swung in place or inserted to keep people from being able to see what is in there when things are closed up? No sense in tempting people -- depending on your neighborhood, of course. I'm not too worried in this neighbourhood especially since form a shop and thievery perspective the SNAP ON truck presents a far more appealing target than my little shop. But thats not to say that its not a very good preventative measure. Still venetian blinds would be a good idea, it lets you control lighting and can give privacy if you want. Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
#48
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Sep 12, 4:19 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 12, 12:11 pm, Brent wrote: On Sep 11, 11:05 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote: On Sep 11, 8:02 am, "Pete C." wrote: Too_Many_Tools wrote: On Sep 10, 5:42 pm, "Pete C." wrote: "Wayne C. Gramlich" wrote: Brent wrote: [snip] The container is delivered and resting on eight pads made up of a pair of 4 inch solid concrete blocks. For the most part not all are touching but if there is any settling the open ones will start taking the load When it is time to ship the container, how hard is it for a shipper to pick it up off the concrete pads? Is this a "standard procedure" or "time to rent a special crane" or "something else"? [snip] Thanks, -Wayne Easy to pick up. For non port pickup and delivery of containers hydraulic tilting flatbed trailers with big winches are the norm. They could very easily drag the container onto the trailer as is, or for a little more refinement jack the container off the blocks and onto some pipe rollers first.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Good point....maybe now is a good time to attach the machines to a false floor so if and when you move later they are already secured. TMT False floor??? The container floor is already 25mm hardwood plywood over steel C channel on about 12" centers. Bolt directly through that floor, can use big washers or load plates underneath as well.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I mention a false floor because metalworking machines can be heavy...very heavy. If I had a Bridgeport in such container, I would want it securely attached to the floor when the container was relocated. Also a false floor allows one to rearrange machinery without butchering up the main flooring and allows one the ability to run cables and ducts under it. TMT TMT I have an Index Model 45 its about bridgeport sized maybe a bit bogger and i DO share your concerns about bolting it but i will need to both BOLT and level it and right now it has levelling screws in the base. but since moving the container is a Secondary concern to making it into a valid shop for now i'm not THAT worried about how to bolt it to the floor for another year or so. also if there is to be any settling i expect it to happen inthe first winter and spring and i will need to likely re-levle the machine once the ground thaws- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I understand...I would not be paranoid about it but it is SO MUCH EASIER to do this type of thing before the shop is FULL of tools...guess how I know? ;) Placing a mounting point in the back of the container will allow you to use a winch to drag new items into the shop also. TMT TMT TMT there are hooks on the floor that are perfect for EXACTLY the purpose having used them to drag the index mill in i will not be able to work without some type of firmpoint for material handling |
#49
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Sep 12, 4:21 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 12, 12:41 pm, "Pete C." wrote: Brent wrote: On Sep 11, 11:30 pm, "Pete C." wrote: Nick Mueller wrote: Pete C. wrote: An insulated container that is kept at a controlled interior temperature will not experience this issue any more than a house maintained at a controlled interior temperature will. Sorry, wrong. You do have a temperature gradient looking at a section through the wall. At the place where the temperature drops below the dew-point, you'll get condensation. Preferably, that happens within the insulation-material, supposing it can retain and transport humidity. If that is not the case you get condensation. And this will be exactly at the inside of the metal container. Styrofoam and that stuff glued to the inside of a wall is *the* *worst* you can do. Except you are out for mushrooms. Moisture doesn't magically appear to condense, it has to come from somewhere. Neither the steel container, not extruded polystyrene insulation are permeable so nothing of significance is going to happen in the space between them. The interior surface is very unlikely to be at dew point in a conditioned space so nothing is likely to happen there either. The difference to a house is, that the dew-point is *in* the brick-wall (oh, you know what this is? G) and the brick can transport humidity to the outside, especially if there is a humidity-stopping layer (or not as good transporting, or much longer distance) on the inside of the wall. You get a much better climate and much less humidity this way. No dehumidifier needed. Again with the steel container, EPS insulation and FRP paneling you have a triple layer vapor barrier. Moisture outside stays outside, moisture inside stays inside (normal vents remove it). The only source of moisture in the container will be one human intermittently working in it, something normal ventilation will readily handle. Sorry, wrong again. Relative humidity is the point. Warm outside, cool inside and you ventilate - moisture inside. Just have a look at the water running out of A/Cs. Look at moisture running out of an A/C after it has been running in an enclosed space for a while, and dehumidifying the space. Unless you're doing something really stupid to allow a lot of moisture into the space, it will remain dry and the A/C will operate more efficiently since it won't have the added load of condensing moisture out of the air as well as cooling the air. OK so in my situation i could use a little feedback here there are 4 passive vents in the corners of my container Same on my non insulated 40' container. It sits through new england seasons and has yet to have a moisture problem inside. i know i'l likely need to leave these vents through but they will allow humidity to enter too Loose those vents, they won't be adequate for your intended use. Install "real" venting in the form of RV vents, regular roof vents, or similar. Because of my Climate i know i will need both Heating and Air conditioning Nick's statements about the dewpoint are valid the Container cools faster than the ambient air once the sun is down so it will draw dew if it cools past the dewpoint i will need to seal the inside walls with a vapor barrier that is a given and i will need ot take steps to de-humidify the shop. You *do not* need a vapor barrier, it will accomplish absolutely nothing. A vapor barrier is used in residential frame construction because the wall materials are all permeable, steel is *not* permeable, nor is extruded polystyrene insulation, nor FRP paneling. the AC itself I primarily use to drop the humidity to make work bearable rather than needing the temperature itself to dropit seems that using Styrofoam the possibly after the electric is run to call in a sprayfoam guy to seal behind it. Run electrical in surface mounted EMT conduit. See the great power upgrade 2006 on my site:http://wpnet.usforan example. There is no reason to seal behind the polystyrene insulation that you glue in place, other than for additional insulation and even that is marginal. The cavities formed behind the insulation are sealed chambers assuming you make proper use of the adhesive. None of the materials involved are moisture permeable and the humidity in that chamber will always be the same as the day it was sealed. Should i fork over a little more for an AC to let it automatically run to prevent condensation? A separate dehumidifier if you find a need for it after you've completed the rest and monitored it for a while. The separate dehumidifier will function when heated in the winter to remove moisture tracked in from snow on your boots. Even if i'm not there if it senses that the dewpoint could be exceeded it will trigger and dehumidify the shop? Yes, separate dehumidifier. Before spending money on it however, spend the $30 for a temp / humidity gauge with min/max and see what the spans really are. I'm investigating elsewhere too but there are no container conversion experts local to me. If i have to do something fancy to prevent condensation so be it, my tools are worth an ounce of prevention and a few dollars of dehumidifier runtime Again, review what I've posted and just monitor to see if you have an actual issue. Residential wood frames, plywood or OSB sheathing, fiberglass insulation and drywall are all moisture permeable, steel, EPS insulation and FRP panels are not.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Try to hang heating, A/C, dehumifier, dust control from the ceiling....floor space is reserved for the heavy stuff. TMT i was looking at infrared radiant heaters that mounted on the ceiling and radiated down but the place that had them (lee valley tools) is out of stock in the long temr on them |
#50
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
Pete C. wrote:
Again with the steel container, EPS insulation and FRP paneling you have a triple layer vapor barrier. Moisture outside stays outside, moisture inside stays inside (normal vents remove it). You didn't understand what ventilation does, or you suppose that there is no need for ventilation. Nick -- The lowcost-DRO: http://www.yadro.de |
#51
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
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#52
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
In article om,
Brent wrote: i was looking at infrared radiant heaters that mounted on the ceiling and radiated down but the place that had them (lee valley tools) is out of stock in the long temr on them Ordinary IR bulbs work fine Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
#53
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
Nick Mueller wrote:
Pete C. wrote: Again with the steel container, EPS insulation and FRP paneling you have a triple layer vapor barrier. Moisture outside stays outside, moisture inside stays inside (normal vents remove it). You didn't understand what ventilation does, or you suppose that there is no need for ventilation. No, I understand what ventilation does just fine and I've indicated the OP should be installing proper vents. You don't seem to understand the difference between conventional frame house construction where pretty much all the wall construction materials are moisture permeable and an additional non permeable vapor barrier (usually plastic sheeting) is used to prevent interior moisture from humans, showers, kitchens, etc. from getting passing into the wall structure and saturating the fiberglass insulation. The permeability of the materials on the other side of the vapor barrier allows the moisture level on that side to settle to the average humidity of the exterior environment. The steel of the container, extruded polystyrene insulation and EPS wall paneling are all non permeable - all are vapor barriers. There will be absolutely no moisture migration through these materials. The humidity level in the small spaces formed by the corrugated steel side and the EPS insulation will stay constant since they are sealed cavities (subject to reasonable care with the adhesive when installing). During the summer when you have A/C running in the 1,280 cubic foot shop, the likelihood if the interior humidity level and temperature, and wall surface temperature being just right for moisture to condense on the walls is very, very low. The point where the temps might be at dew point will be somewhere within the non permeable wall structure where it will have no effect at all due to the inability of moisture to reach that point since all the wall materials are vapor barriers. The OP's container a.k.a. steel building lacks most of the moisture sources found in a residence (no shower or kitchen), lacks the permeable wall materials found in a residence, and lacks the materials such as fiberglass insulation that could be damaged by moisture passing through permeable wall materials. Installing some sort of plastic sheeting vapor barrier over the steel wall and EPS insulation would be positively idiotic since it would accomplish nothing putting it over two other vapor barriers, and under FRP paneling, a third vapor barrier. |
#54
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
Brent wrote: I've posted a few questions off and on about things like putting Machine tools on a wood floor and on insulating a shop. I figured i would post an interim update on how my shop upgrade is going. I decided AGAINST erecting a structure and went the shipping container route instead. I made that realization wen i figured out i would not likely be staying at this house forever. If 9 of the 10 heaviest items i own (Excluding my CAR) are already in the shipping container it will make future moves EXTREMELY easy. So i'm now the Proud owner of a 20 foot shipping container. I have a 10 foot container which I have heat-insulated and held for around 6 years now.. Temperatures from -30C to +35C with snow at winter. The most important gotcha is that the FLOOR is a big heat loss at winter.. I installed styrox plates to exposed metallic surfaces at the bottom, and prevented airflow to under the container with wood plates. I did the heat insulation by welding bolts to the inside walls and ceiling every 60cm and then bolted wooden 2x2 to the bolts. Between the 2x2 I put glass-wool.. On top of all that cheap chipboard plates and painted the walls. I left a slight opening between the plates and the floor, for air access. Has worked wonderfully. I painted the outside with green metal-roof paint with brush. Here's some pics from inside the container, mostly showing the white chipboard walls: http://www.iki.fi/ktu/sem/sem_general.jpg http://www.iki.fi/ktu/tem/tem_general.jpg Kristian Ukkonen. |
#55
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
"Kristian Ukkonen" wrote in message ... Brent wrote: I've posted a few questions off and on about things like putting Machine tools on a wood floor and on insulating a shop. I figured i would post an interim update on how my shop upgrade is going. I decided AGAINST erecting a structure and went the shipping container route instead. I made that realization wen i figured out i would not likely be staying at this house forever. If 9 of the 10 heaviest items i own (Excluding my CAR) are already in the shipping container it will make future moves EXTREMELY easy. So i'm now the Proud owner of a 20 foot shipping container. I have a 10 foot container which I have heat-insulated and held for around 6 years now.. Temperatures from -30C to +35C with snow at winter. The most important gotcha is that the FLOOR is a big heat loss at winter.. I installed styrox plates to exposed metallic surfaces at the bottom, and prevented airflow to under the container with wood plates. I did the heat insulation by welding bolts to the inside walls and ceiling every 60cm and then bolted wooden 2x2 to the bolts. Between the 2x2 I put glass-wool.. On top of all that cheap chipboard plates and painted the walls. I left a slight opening between the plates and the floor, for air access. Has worked wonderfully. I painted the outside with green metal-roof paint with brush. Here's some pics from inside the container, mostly showing the white chipboard walls: http://www.iki.fi/ktu/sem/sem_general.jpg http://www.iki.fi/ktu/tem/tem_general.jpg Kristian Ukkonen. What are you playing with there Kristian, an electron microscope? AWEM |
#56
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Sep 11, 11:48 am, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:09:05 GMT, "Pete C." wrote: I'll have to investigate that line because so far i was looking at residential exterior door prices and it hurt to look Even a regular basic residential steel entry door is like $120 (US) new, but unfortunately it's wood framed. You want the commercial steel framed ones so you can just cut a hole and weld it in place in the container. With the way commercial office space is constantly remodeled and current recycling efforts, there is a lot of used stuff available. If there is one local to you..check out the store at Habitat for Humanity. Some very good deals to be had on recycled materials/supplies. Gunner Gunner thanks for the tip..... Unfortunately the Habitat Re-Store had nothing but wood doors and the salvage yard i found had only a few steel doors and they were mainly steel framed GLASS doors. Mind you they had some interesting unloved tools but thats a project for another time |
#57
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Sep 13, 2:00 am, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote: On 12 Sep 2007 04:34:43 GMT, (DoN. Nichols) wrote: According to Brent : [ ... ] I am a big fan of overbuilding and already i'm not looking forward to the budget preventing me form putting in windows this winter Might I suggest that each window have an opaque panel which could be swung in place or inserted to keep people from being able to see what is in there when things are closed up? No sense in tempting people -- depending on your neighborhood, of course. That, or it's simple enough to turn a panel of pre-made wrought iron fencing into window burglar guards. Saves getting the spacing right. A quick release for emergency egress isn't that difficult to wangle up - I'd go for something drop dead simple like a pin through the wall and a mouse clip release on the inside, hinges on the other end. Or if you can get some huge Dzus slotted pins... You put a shroud over the pin releases so a burglar can't break the glass and reach in to release the grille. When you need out in a hurry you simply step on a shrouded floor level pedal to pull both mouse clips out at once, and free the open-window end of the grille. -- Bruce -- And make sure you can do the release with your eyes shut. If you ever have to go out that window at night when the house is on fire, you will understand why. TMT |
#58
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Update on the Containerized shop
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 13, 2:00 am, Bruce L. Bergman wrote: On 12 Sep 2007 04:34:43 GMT, (DoN. Nichols) wrote: According to Brent : [ ... ] I am a big fan of overbuilding and already i'm not looking forward to the budget preventing me form putting in windows this winter Might I suggest that each window have an opaque panel which could be swung in place or inserted to keep people from being able to see what is in there when things are closed up? No sense in tempting people -- depending on your neighborhood, of course. That, or it's simple enough to turn a panel of pre-made wrought iron fencing into window burglar guards. Saves getting the spacing right. A quick release for emergency egress isn't that difficult to wangle up - I'd go for something drop dead simple like a pin through the wall and a mouse clip release on the inside, hinges on the other end. Or if you can get some huge Dzus slotted pins... You put a shroud over the pin releases so a burglar can't break the glass and reach in to release the grille. When you need out in a hurry you simply step on a shrouded floor level pedal to pull both mouse clips out at once, and free the open-window end of the grille. -- Bruce -- And make sure you can do the release with your eyes shut. If you ever have to go out that window at night when the house is on fire, you will understand why. TMT And one handed. Something I learned trying to get out of broken helicopters. It's a lot harder to do anything when you are hurt... |
#59
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Sep 11, 8:59 am, "Pete C." wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote: On Sep 10, 5:11 pm, "Pete C." wrote: wrote: On Sep 10, 3:47 pm, Brent wrote: I've posted a few questions off and on about things like putting Machine tools on a wood floor and on insulating a shop. I figured i would post an interim update on how my shop upgrade is going. I decided AGAINST erecting a structure and went the shipping container route instead. I made that realization wen i figured out i would not likely be staying at this house forever. If 9 of the 10 heaviest items i own (Excluding my CAR) are already in the shipping container it will make future moves EXTREMELY easy. So i'm now the Proud owner of a 20 foot shipping container. Cars fit in them fine too... I started by getting a bed delivered of "granular A" gravel material, And i wound up getting about 4 tons too much. Oops. I got it and spread it and then tamped it down (14 tons of gravel with a guy using a shovel took longer than i thought) Exercise. i bought a used container that was WAY older than i thought it was (Close inspection revels it was built in 1971) but has no structural rust to speak of so i'm essentially happy BUT i need to find out where i can buy container hardware to redo one of the locking tabs They last a long time. I'm not sure what vintage my 40' is, but it is in pretty much mint condition, barely a ding. The container is delivered and resting on eight pads made up of a pair of 4 inch solid concrete blocks. For the most part not all are touching but if there is any settling the open ones will start taking the load The four corners is all you need, and all that is normally supported on these things when fully loaded. I've ground and primed all the surface rust spots and i'm in the process of respraying the exterior to white Nice. Mine came with a fresh coat of industrial gray, my favorite color. Should i replace the numbers and identifiers? it said NICU 87214 as an ID and i think that might be significant enough to return to the box possibly? Not unless you think they look cool or expect to have it shipped internationally. Electrical will hopefully get resolved this week I'm planning on running 100A of 240V 1Ph to it and i'm tryig to figure out whether thats best done with four Camlock Connectors or with a pin in sleeve connector and finding 4 conductor 4 gauge cable The cam locks and individual conductors (type W?) are generally the way to go with anything over about 60A as complete cables become a bear to handle. Since i'm in canada i know i will need to run Heat and AC to it along with lights Yep. Might want to consider LP for heat though, unless your electric rates are real low. I figure i need 100A since as a single user the worst sustained use i can hit is WELDER + Compressor + heat + lights. which t me works out to in the ballpark of 80A at 240V Yep, no reason to skimp. Install a nice 20-32 space panel in the container. 3 phase if and when required will be done via VFD for machine tools liek the mill and i will install an RPC Good. my only OTHER concern was insulation and so far i think my best option is to frame the inside with 2x2's and insulate with the pink styrofoam stuff then drywall over that with the best fire resistant drywall i can afford. My suggestion would be to skip framing and instead glue thick insulboard (like 2" EPS) to the inside of the container and then glue FRP panels on top of that (with the nice trim strips between them. FRPs are commercial grade, fire resistant, washable (food prep area rated), and quite durable. They're expensive in 1s and 2s at the big box places, but ordering enough for a container from a real building supply place should be a lot better. I've decided to delay adding windows and a human access door to the side until next year for budget reasons. It means a little more rework next year but getting the shop ready to go is more important. than making it pretty and if i have to live with a closed box with all electric lighting it wont kill me for the winter Best route on this is to cut a hole in the side of the container and weld in a regular commercial door frame (and install the door of course). Use this normal door for access and leave the end doors locked. You can probably get such a door used at a salvage place cheap. Don't skip this as it's a safety issue. Just figured i'd post on how it was doing and look for some feedback on the insulation and electrical issue Pictures, we want lots of pictures 1st on the list- if you go in and close the door (to keep the heat in, etc.) make sure there's a way to keep someone on the outside from locking you in. That and the fact that you can't fully close the doors from the inside without leaving the lock bars where a slight bump could lock them without any malicious assistance. 2nd- emergency air vent? RV type vents will install easily and inexpensively. Can't stack other containers on top after that, but I don't expect that will be an issue. Insulation that won't burn, even if exposed, might be worth a little extra effort. As noted above Maybe a small (but you can fit through it) emergency hatch at the rear is in order. RV vent / escape hatch again. Have fun Pete C. Three comments.... 1) If you use LP/gas for heat be sure to vent...they produce considerable water vapor that you won't like in the enclosed space with nice tools. Absolutely. You'd use one of the Mr. Heater vented garage heaters, or perhaps an RV heater. Absolutely never use one of the unvented heaters. 2) Do you need a vapor barrier for the insulation? I think you will have condensation on the inside of the container and you don't want your insulation to become saturated. If you're gluing extruded polystyrene foam to the inside of the container and then FRP panels on top of that with staggered joints, I think you have all the vapor barrier you'd need. 3) Big agreement about the walkin door....two exits always for fire safety. Yes, and if you find a suitable salvage place, used commercial metal frame doors should be very cheap. Commercial space gets demod and rebuilt constantly and these days they're pretty good about reclaiming a lot of the materials. Pete C. Well at this point the paint phase is done and construction and modification begins i TOTALLY struck out at finding a metal door and frame. the only metal framed doors i found were GLASS doors liek the entrance to a lawyers office or boutique.... Not appropriate for my application Next I'm calling the window and door manufacturers looking for miscuts or refused orders. If they had to take back a door its of limited usefulness to them and since i can cut my opening to fit its very useful to me |
#60
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
"Brent" wrote in message i TOTALLY struck out at finding a metal door and frame. the only metal framed doors i found were GLASS doors liek the entrance to a lawyers office or boutique.... Not appropriate for my application Next I'm calling the window and door manufacturers looking for miscuts or refused orders. If they had to take back a door its of limited usefulness to them and since i can cut my opening to fit its very useful to me As you can slice holes in containers, can you not also fabricate a door frame from angle, and a door from channel and sheet? AWEM |
#61
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 07:59:39 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Brent quickly quoth: Well at this point the paint phase is done and construction and modification begins i TOTALLY struck out at finding a metal door and frame. the only metal framed doors i found were GLASS doors liek the entrance to a lawyers office or boutique.... Not appropriate for my application Next I'm calling the window and door manufacturers looking for miscuts or refused orders. If they had to take back a door its of limited usefulness to them and since i can cut my opening to fit its very useful to me How about a rollup metal door? I don't recall seeing what size you wanted. From $130 + (s/h) on eBay. http://tinyurl.com/2ugfvx http://www.usdoor.com/door/PDFs/USDo...20Brochure.pdf I don't know how good the insulation is, foil bubble. (Janus (another vendor's) models are a whopping R-4! -- According to our strength of character and our clarity of vision, we will endure, we will succeed, we will have contributed something to make life where we were and as we lived it better, brighter, and more beautiful. -- Frank Lloyd Wright |
#62
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:47:25 -0700, Brent
wrote: Gunner thanks for the tip..... Unfortunately the Habitat Re-Store had nothing but wood doors and the salvage yard i found had only a few steel doors and they were mainly steel framed GLASS doors. Mind you they had some interesting unloved tools but thats a project for another time How does your local municipality regard containers as workshops ? Containers are prohibited here in a residential area, even if nicely painted and fitted with a gable roof. A stupid attitude. I had to remove mine once all my furniture & tools were removed from it. Council was threatening to fine me for each day after a removal deadline. It is now at my son's house being loaded with tools and car parts ready for his move. No problem for him as his land is zoned semi-rural and developers have made an offer for it. I was going to remove it anyway as it was in an inconvenient position in my garden and extremely difficult to rotate 90 degrees to where I wanted it. Also not suitable for woodworking as it is too narrow to handle 8 x 4 sheets of ply on the table saw. My new shed is supposedly being erected tomorrow, 28' x 15' for metalworking and the old shed, 24' x 13' is woodworking only. First priority for new shed is shelving, I have 3 pallet racks to assemble and shelves and boxes to remove from the spare bedroom. |
#63
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
Brent wrote:
Well at this point the paint phase is done and construction and modification begins i TOTALLY struck out at finding a metal door and frame. the only metal framed doors i found were GLASS doors liek the entrance to a lawyers office or boutique.... Not appropriate for my application Next I'm calling the window and door manufacturers looking for miscuts or refused orders. If they had to take back a door its of limited usefulness to them and since i can cut my opening to fit its very useful to me I have several local places that deal in Mobile home and surplus construction materials. I bought two new fire rated steel doors a few years ago for $20 each. They were rejected on the jobsite because of scratches that were easy to fix h a torch. They had a metal cover tack welded over the normal edge where the lock set went, to use them as a set of double doors. It took about five minutes to peel them off. A little grinding and fresh paint, and they looked brand new. One is in use on my shop building, and the other will go on the garage. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
#64
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Sep 19, 1:07 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Brent wrote: Well at this point the paint phase is done and construction and modification begins i TOTALLY struck out at finding a metal door and frame. the only metal framed doors i found were GLASS doors liek the entrance to a lawyers office or boutique.... Not appropriate for my application Next I'm calling the window and door manufacturers looking for miscuts or refused orders. If they had to take back a door its of limited usefulness to them and since i can cut my opening to fit its very useful to me I have several local places that deal in Mobile home and surplus construction materials. I bought two new fire rated steel doors a few years ago for $20 each. They were rejected on the jobsite because of scratches that were easy to fix h a torch. They had a metal cover tack welded over the normal edge where the lock set went, to use them as a set of double doors. It took about five minutes to peel them off. A little grinding and fresh paint, and they looked brand new. One is in use on my shop building, and the other will go on the garage. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida Issue resolved I'm getting a reject off a commercial door manufacturer here new 20 gauge steel and insulated but rejected from an earlier job Now for windows |
#65
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Sep 19, 12:44 pm, Alan wrote:
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:47:25 -0700, Brent wrote: Gunner thanks for the tip..... Unfortunately the Habitat Re-Store had nothing but wood doors and the salvage yard i found had only a few steel doors and they were mainly steel framed GLASS doors. Mind you they had some interesting unloved tools but thats a project for another time How does your local municipality regard containers as workshops ? Containers are prohibited here in a residential area, even if nicely painted and fitted with a gable roof. A stupid attitude. I had to remove mine once all my furniture & tools were removed from it. Council was threatening to fine me for each day after a removal deadline. It is now at my son's house being loaded with tools and car parts ready for his move. No problem for him as his land is zoned semi-rural and developers have made an offer for it. I was going to remove it anyway as it was in an inconvenient position in my garden and extremely difficult to rotate 90 degrees to where I wanted it. Also not suitable for woodworking as it is too narrow to handle 8 x 4 sheets of ply on the table saw. My new shed is supposedly being erected tomorrow, 28' x 15' for metalworking and the old shed, 24' x 13' is woodworking only. First priority for new shed is shelving, I have 3 pallet racks to assemble and shelves and boxes to remove from the spare bedroom. My container falls through the cracks of zoning ALTHOUGH my city is a bit of a unique mess that way. there are 17 different zoning bylaws in force within my overall city due to a forced amalgamation. Ine one secdton of town (Called Kanata) they have such crazy and draconinan bylaws that the were controlling the color you point your house the erection of a clothesline and all sorts of things like that. Basically the town council was the HOA for that municipality. If you didnt like it you moved a few miles away form that small pocket of prudes. (The overwheming majority of the city were IT type people who wanted a perfect little suburbia) those who disagreed with that picture lived elsewhere in nearby locations. Where i am (Goulbourn) was a much more rural area. and the laws and regulations reflect that. my "town" has just recently been "upgraded" to be considered a suburb in the last 5 years form being a rural area But the container is not plumbed into the house and will be on camlocks to house hydro. its does not fit their definition of a structure so its not a structure. =) i beleive that the foundation is where the definition lies I then checked the "Property Standards" Bylaws. Property standards = eyesore in government speak. The container itself is not prohibited there but there are rules about appropriate coatings for wood and metal structures. Basically It arrived Graffitied and rusty and both of those are disallowed (And have since been rectified) The container s however more sturdy and better looking than the shed it replaced and in the exact same spot. Neighbours have been happier to see the clean white structure than the rotting old shed. I'm safe to have a container and they are frequently used for on site tool storage by construction companies (Even in residential areas when the size of job is appropriate for it) And Containers are rented for house moves here as well In theory where my old shed was and where this container is are in violation of "setback" regulations so if i were to put it on a foundation and put plumbing in i would need a zoning variance. But 1 I dont want a zoning variance and 2 i WANT and intend to move this shop. I will not be staying in the house i live in forever so i want a mobile workshop and not a Structure. and that it is not built but it is parked if it comes down to that. I can "park" on the setback Hope that makes sense Brent Philion Ottawa Canada |
#66
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:17:13 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote: "Brent" wrote in message i TOTALLY struck out at finding a metal door and frame. the only metal framed doors i found were GLASS doors liek the entrance to a lawyers office or boutique.... Not appropriate for my application Next I'm calling the window and door manufacturers looking for miscuts or refused orders. If they had to take back a door its of limited usefulness to them and since i can cut my opening to fit its very useful to me As you can slice holes in containers, can you not also fabricate a door frame from angle, and a door from channel and sheet? We used th' cut out section for th' *sheet*. Snarl |
#67
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Sep 19, 11:40 am, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 07:59:39 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Brent quickly quoth: Well at this point the paint phase is done and construction and modification begins i TOTALLY struck out at finding a metal door and frame. the only metal framed doors i found were GLASS doors liek the entrance to a lawyers office or boutique.... Not appropriate for my application Next I'm calling the window and door manufacturers looking for miscuts or refused orders. If they had to take back a door its of limited usefulness to them and since i can cut my opening to fit its very useful to me How about a rollup metal door? I don't recall seeing what size you wanted. From $130 + (s/h) on eBay. http://tinyurl.com/2ugfvxhttp://www....20Brochure.pdf I don't know how good the insulation is, foil bubble. (Janus (another vendor's) models are a whopping R-4! -- According to our strength of character and our clarity of vision, we will endure, we will succeed, we will have contributed something to make life where we were and as we lived it better, brighter, and more beautiful. -- Frank Lloyd Wright the "door" i need is for human access only and should be as insulated as possible to prevent heat loss through it if i need something big loaded or unloaded i'll open the barn doors |
#68
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
Brent wrote:
On Sep 10, 4:38 pm, "Jon Danniken" wrote: "Brent" wrote: I've posted a few questions off and on about things like putting Machine tools on a wood floor and on insulating a shop. I figured i would post an interim update on how my shop upgrade is going. I decided AGAINST erecting a structure and went the shipping container route instead. I made that realization wen i figured out i would not likely be staying at this house forever. If 9 of the 10 heaviest items i own (Excluding my CAR) are already in the shipping container it will make future moves EXTREMELY easy. So i'm now the Proud owner of a 20 foot shipping container. I started by getting a bed delivered of "granular A" gravel material, And i wound up getting about 4 tons too much. I got it and spread it and then tamped it down (14 tons of gravel with a guy using a shovel took longer than i thought) i bought a used container that was WAY older than i thought it was (Close inspection revels it was built in 1971) but has no structural rust to speak of so i'm essentially happy BUT i need to find out where i can buy container hardware to redo one of the locking tabs The container is delivered and resting on eight pads made up of a pair of 4 inch solid concrete blocks. For the most part not all are touching but if there is any settling the open ones will start taking the load I've ground and primed all the surface rust spots and i'm in the process of respraying the exterior to white Should i replace the numbers and identifiers? it said NICU 87214 as an ID and i think that might be significant enough to return to the box possibly? Electrical will hopefully get resolved this week I'm planning on running 100A of 240V 1Ph to it and i'm tryig to figure out whether thats best done with four Camlock Connectors or with a pin in sleeve connector and finding 4 conductor 4 gauge cable Since i'm in canada i know i will need to run Heat and AC to it along with lights I figure i need 100A since as a single user the worst sustained use i can hit is WELDER + Compressor + heat + lights. which t me works out to in the ballpark of 80A at 240V 3 phase if and when required will be done via VFD for machine tools liek the mill and i will install an RPC my only OTHER concern was insulation and so far i think my best option is to frame the inside with 2x2's and insulate with the pink styrofoam stuff then drywall over that with the best fire resistant drywall i can afford. I've decided to delay adding windows and a human access door to the side until next year for budget reasons. It means a little more rework next year but getting the shop ready to go is more important. than making it pretty and if i have to live with a closed box with all electric lighting it wont kill me for the winter Just figured i'd post on how it was doing and look for some feedback on the insulation and electrical issue Got any pictures? Jon Yes and no, I'm finishing setting up my website rather than cluttering the dropbox We're still waiting for pictures / link to your site... |
#69
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:44:07 -0700, Brent
wrote: there are 17 different zoning bylaws in force within my overall city due to a forced amalgamation. Ine one secdton of town (Called Kanata) they have such crazy and draconinan bylaws that the were controlling the color you point your house the erection of a clothesline and all sorts of things like that. Basically the town council was the HOA for that municipality. If you didnt like it you moved a few miles away form that small pocket of prudes. (The overwheming majority of the city were IT type people who wanted a perfect little suburbia) those who disagreed with that picture lived elsewhere in nearby locations. Where i am (Goulbourn) was a much more rural area. and the laws and regulations reflect that. my "town" has just recently been "upgraded" to be considered a suburb in the last 5 years form being a rural area But the container is not plumbed into the house and will be on camlocks to house hydro. its does not fit their definition of a structure so its not a structure. =) i beleive that the foundation is where the definition lies I then checked the "Property Standards" Bylaws. Property standards = eyesore in government speak. The container itself is not prohibited there but there are rules about appropriate coatings for wood and metal structures. Basically It arrived Graffitied and rusty and both of those are disallowed (And have since been rectified) The container s however more sturdy and better looking than the shed it replaced and in the exact same spot. Neighbours have been happier to see the clean white structure than the rotting old shed. I'm safe to have a container and they are frequently used for on site tool storage by construction companies (Even in residential areas when the size of job is appropriate for it) And Containers are rented for house moves here as well In theory where my old shed was and where this container is are in violation of "setback" regulations so if i were to put it on a foundation and put plumbing in i would need a zoning variance. But 1 I dont want a zoning variance and 2 i WANT and intend to move this shop. I will not be staying in the house i live in forever so i want a mobile workshop and not a Structure. and that it is not built but it is parked if it comes down to that. I can "park" on the setback Hope that makes sense Brent Philion Ottawa Canada I visited second son in a townhouse complex in Kanata, Christmas 1993 - Worst damned shack town I was ever in. Cockroaches big enough to ride. Gerry :-)} London, Canada |
#70
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Update on the Containerized shop
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:13:23 -0700, Brent
wrote: On Sep 19, 11:40 am, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 07:59:39 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Brent quickly quoth: Well at this point the paint phase is done and construction and modification begins i TOTALLY struck out at finding a metal door and frame. the only metal framed doors i found were GLASS doors liek the entrance to a lawyers office or boutique.... Not appropriate for my application Next I'm calling the window and door manufacturers looking for miscuts or refused orders. If they had to take back a door its of limited usefulness to them and since i can cut my opening to fit its very useful to me How about a rollup metal door? I don't recall seeing what size you wanted. From $130 + (s/h) on eBay. http://tinyurl.com/2ugfvxhttp://www....20Brochure.pdf I don't know how good the insulation is, foil bubble. (Janus (another vendor's) models are a whopping R-4! -- According to our strength of character and our clarity of vision, we will endure, we will succeed, we will have contributed something to make life where we were and as we lived it better, brighter, and more beautiful. -- Frank Lloyd Wright the "door" i need is for human access only and should be as insulated as possible to prevent heat loss through it if i need something big loaded or unloaded i'll open the barn doors You could consider the "barn doors" on the container as the emergency exit IF you rig up an inside release of some sort. You would have to remove the vertical dog shafts and install a conventional lever-set door latch & deadbolt set on the right door. Leave the dogs on the left door & padlock them, they are much more effective than simple cane bolts. If you want to spend a bit or scrounge a bit, you could even put a set of commercial exit door Push To Open "crash bar" latches on both ends. Highly recommended if you will be using flammable solvents inside, and shaving another precious second or two off your exit speed sounds like a really good idea... Store the dog bars - if you ever want to move the container any distance they will need to be reinstalled and operative, otherwise you can rack (twist) the whole container by uneven weight distribution between the four corners during loading or unloading operations. -- Bruce -- |
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