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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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bond UHMW to SS
I need to bond a small stip of UHMW plastic to 304 stainless steel. How?
Karl |
#2
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bond UHMW to SS
Karl Townsend wrote:
I need to bond a small stip of UHMW plastic to 304 stainless steel. How? Karl Call Locktite or 3M? Pretty sure they have a glue or tape that will do the job nicely. Can probably find all the selector info you need on their sites too. Heck, Woodcraft sells a thin UHMW adhesive backed tape for use on woodworking jigs and whatnot, perhaps you could just use that. |
#3
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bond UHMW to SS
On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:59:02 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Karl
Townsend" quickly quoth: I need to bond a small stip of UHMW plastic to 304 stainless steel. How? Rivets! ================================================== ========= Save the Endangered Bouillons from being cubed! ================================================== ========= |
#4
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bond UHMW to SS
On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:59:02 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote: I need to bond a small stip of UHMW plastic to 304 stainless steel. How? Best way is to buy a roll of self-adhesive UHMW tape - see McMaster p.3328 If that won't work for you, McMaster has epoxy meant for bonding difficult plastics on p.3295 - $55 for 1.7 ounces! I've used the tape, it's cheap and works well, never tried the epoxy. -- Ned Simmons |
#5
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bond UHMW to SS
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:59:02 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Karl Townsend" quickly quoth: I need to bond a small stip of UHMW plastic to 304 stainless steel. How? Rivets! ================================================== ========= Save the Endangered Bouillons from being cubed! ================================================== ========= Proper thinking, Larry! |
#6
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bond UHMW to SS
On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 22:49:01 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, "Tom
Gardner" quickly quoth: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:59:02 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Karl Townsend" quickly quoth: I need to bond a small stip of UHMW plastic to 304 stainless steel. How? Rivets! ================================================== ========= Save the Endangered Bouillons from being cubed! ================================================== ========= Proper thinking, Larry! Which, for the bouillons or the metal (and mettle) in my reply? At least the spamming Net Nazi won't get me for that post. ================================================== ========= Save the Endangered Bouillons from being cubed! ================================================== ========= |
#7
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bond UHMW to SS
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message . .. On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:59:02 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Karl Townsend" quickly quoth: I need to bond a small stip of UHMW plastic to 304 stainless steel. How? Rivets! There is another way (actually a couple). A simple method is with a resiliant adhesive of the "pressure sensitive" variety -- rubbery acrylamide glue or double-stick foam tape come to mind. If there isn't much force in shear, foam tape works really well. A "direct" bond can be made by surface etching the plastic. You can do it yourself with a nasty chemical brew (I can post a copy if you wish), or you can purchase polyethylene and teflon with a "treated surface" for bonding. McMaster and MSC sell treated teflon... I haven't bought any UHMW PE from them in that type, so I don't know what they have. LLoyd |
#8
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bond UHMW to SS
"Karl Townsend" wrote in message anews.com... I need to bond a small stip of UHMW plastic to 304 stainless steel. How? Karl vhb tape http://www.uline.com/ProductDetail.a...10113&ref=6038 |
#9
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bond UHMW to SS
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh writes:
You can do it yourself with a nasty chemical brew (I can post a copy if you wish), I wish. The surface prep for the purported glues for PE are pretty ordinary solvents. or you can purchase polyethylene and teflon with a "treated surface" for bonding. McMaster and MSC sell treated teflon... I haven't bought any UHMW PE from them in that type, so I don't know what they have. Bondable Teflon is a chemically converted layer, not just etched. I wasn't aware that PE can be so converted. I thought the McMaster item just had a layer of pressure-sensitive adhesive applied to it. |
#10
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bond UHMW to SS
"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com... I need to bond a small stip of UHMW plastic to 304 stainless steel. How? Karl There's always more to this question than one thinks of. Is it structural? What kind of tension or shear loads will it see? How thick is the bond line? What's the area/dimensions of the bond? Are the surfaces flat or shaped? Expected temperature range? Other environmental conditions? Will the joint have any kind of flex applied to it? I've used all kinds of glues for things that work fine if the demands aren't high. |
#11
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bond UHMW to SS
Richard J Kinch fired this volley in
: Lloyd E. Sponenburgh writes: You can do it yourself with a nasty chemical brew (I can post a copy if you wish), I wish. The surface prep for the purported glues for PE are pretty ordinary solvents. or you can purchase polyethylene and teflon with a "treated surface" for bonding. McMaster and MSC sell treated teflon... I haven't bought any UHMW PE from them in that type, so I don't know what they have. Bondable Teflon is a chemically converted layer, not just etched. Richard, when I said "etched" that was inexact. The surface IS etched, but is also oxidized -- i.e. "converted". I have such a formula, and the process is do-able in the home shop. LLoyd |
#12
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bond UHMW to SS
On Sep 7, 12:25 pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com Richard, when I said "etched" that was inexact. The surface IS etched, but is also oxidized -- i.e. "converted". I have such a formula, and the process is do-able in the home shop. LLoyd You can also play a propane torch over the polyethylene and get the surface to oxidize. Not as controlled a process , but it will help in bonding to UHMW. Dan |
#13
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bond UHMW to SS
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:36:38 -0000, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:59:02 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, "Karl Townsend" quickly quoth: I need to bond a small stip of UHMW plastic to 304 stainless steel. How? Rivets! There is another way (actually a couple). A simple method is with a resiliant adhesive of the "pressure sensitive" variety -- rubbery acrylamide glue or double-stick foam tape come to mind. If there isn't much force in shear, foam tape works really well. A "direct" bond can be made by surface etching the plastic. You can do it yourself with a nasty chemical brew (I can post a copy if you wish), I'd like to see your etching recipe, Lloyd. |
#14
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bond UHMW to SS
Don Foreman fired this volley in
: I'd like to see your etching recipe, Lloyd. This solution will work, albeit more slowly, on UHMW PE as well. FWIW, I got this HERE from a past contributor. It's nasty... use breathing protection or an exhaust hood, and work carefully. Hexavalent chromates and bi-chromates are potent corrosives and carcinogenic. And sulfuric acid ain't no warm puppy, either. ------------------ The solution of choice is a chromic/sulfuric acid solution: Parts By Weight H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid) 100 Na2Cr2O7 _2H2O (Sodium Dichromate) 5 H2O (Water) 8 The solution should be mixed with care as it is an extremely strong oxidizer. When fresh, it is dark brown, and gradually becomes dark green upon exposure to air and in use . a practical indicator that it should be replaced. The solution will naturally etch through a polyethylene container and should be stored in safetyglass bottles. Note that in past decades Emerson and Cuming manufactured ..Ecoprime PP. as a recommended treatment for polyethylene prior to bonding. Though the solution is no longer available, it appears to be very similar to the mixture above as deduced from the Material Safety Data Sheets. The polyethylene sheets are cut from HDPE rod stock and turned on a vacuum chuck to approximately 20-mils thickness. They are then rubbed with an acetone-soaked Kimwipe to remove gross dirt and organics, then placed in the etching solution. The disks are etched for approximately 1 hour with intermittent stirring, then rinsed for 5 minutes under warm running water, and given a final rinse with distilled water. Baking is not recommended for the surface-treated polyethylene, nor is wiping the surface. Instead, the windows should be blown dry with clean nitrogen gas. If a bake is necessary to dry them, the temperature should be kept at approximately 50 C. |
#15
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bond UHMW to SS
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh writes:
I have such a formula, and the process is do-able in the home shop. OK, that was my wish, that you post a copy. |
#16
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bond UHMW to SS
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh writes:
H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid) 100 But what concentration is this acid supposed to be? |
#17
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bond UHMW to SS
On Sep 7, 12:32 pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote: ... The solution of choice is a chromic/sulfuric acid solution: Parts By Weight H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid) 100 Na2Cr2O7 _2H2O (Sodium Dichromate) 5 H2O (Water) 8 ... That was the cleaning agent of last resort for any baked-on mystery crud on glassware back when I was a chemist, pre-EPA. Coleman sold a patch kit containing an industrial adhesive that would stick to their polyethylene canoes. jw |
#18
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bond UHMW to SS
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:32:24 -0000, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote: Don Foreman fired this volley in : I'd like to see your etching recipe, Lloyd. This solution will work, albeit more slowly, on UHMW PE as well. FWIW, I got this HERE from a past contributor. It's nasty... use breathing protection or an exhaust hood, and work carefully. Hexavalent chromates and bi-chromates are potent corrosives and carcinogenic. And sulfuric acid ain't no warm puppy, either. ------------------ The solution of choice is a chromic/sulfuric acid solution: Parts By Weight H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid) 100 Na2Cr2O7 _2H2O (Sodium Dichromate) 5 H2O (Water) 8 Thanks, Lloyd. Nasty stuff indeed, but archived for future reference. Given the 8 parts of H20, I assume that the H2SO4 is 98% or anhydrous? I don't know where I'd get that -- or the dichromate either. |
#19
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bond UHMW to SS
Richard J Kinch fired this volley in
: Lloyd E. Sponenburgh writes: H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid) 100 But what concentration is this acid supposed to be? lacking any other information, I'd assume 9lb/gal. LLoyd |
#20
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bond UHMW to SS
Don Foreman fired this volley in
: Thanks, Lloyd. Nasty stuff indeed, but archived for future reference. Given the 8 parts of H20, I assume that the H2SO4 is 98% or anhydrous? I don't know where I'd get that -- or the dichromate either. I'd have to ask more expert hands to do the calculations, but I think potassium dichromate would serve, and it is readily available. In this case, check out the several amateur pyrotechnic suppliers like Skylighter or Firefox. LLoyd |
#21
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bond UHMW to SS
On Sep 5, 9:59 pm, "Karl Townsend"
wrote: I need to bond a small stip ofUHMWplastic to 304 stainless steel. How? Karl Hi Karl, I sell offcuts of UHMW on ebay and in major woodworking chains like Lee Valley and Woodcraft. You can't actually glue UH to anything if you want a durable, strong joint, because UHmw is a closed molecule that won't even absorb water, let alone the glue components you're trying to create a bond with. The best you'll ever be able to achieve is an "atmosphere bond" with self-adhesive tape. As has already been noted, if you don't have a lot of shear strength needed, that may do all right for you. You CAN weld UHMW, but it takes special equipment and a specialized skill. Probably not worth it for a single job. I think your original idea of using rivets is probably the best bet for the job. The idea of crazing the surface by etching it or using a propane torch is iffy. UHMW melts almost at the same temperature that it ignites at - you could have a real mess from that. BTW, if the UH DOES melt, it smells like candles, but the drippings are NOT wax. They'll cause 2nd and 3rd-degree burns. Be careful. Eric |
#22
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bond UHMW to SS
"Richard J Kinch" wrote:
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh writes: I have such a formula, and the process is do-able in the home shop. OK, that was my wish, that you post a copy. I would also like to see this formula, having just bought some of the slippery white stuff which I would like to eventually somewhat adhere to Cu. Jon |
#23
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bond UHMW to SS
Don Foreman" wrote:
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:32:24 -0000, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote: The solution of choice is a chromic/sulfuric acid solution: Parts By Weight H2SO4 (Sulfuric acid) 100 Na2Cr2O7 _2H2O (Sodium Dichromate) 5 H2O (Water) 8 Thanks, Lloyd. Nasty stuff indeed, but archived for future reference. Given the 8 parts of H20, I assume that the H2SO4 is 98% or anhydrous? I don't know where I'd get that -- or the dichromate either. Given that the formula also calls for water, you could theoretically use diluted sulphuric, given that the amount of water was at least equal or less than that required by the given ratios. Jon |
#24
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bond UHMW to SS
"Jon Danniken"
"Richard J Kinch" wrote: Lloyd E. Sponenburgh writes: I have such a formula, and the process is do-able in the home shop. OK, that was my wish, that you post a copy. I would also like to see this formula, having just bought some of the slippery white stuff which I would like to eventually somewhat adhere to Cu. Whoops, cancel that, you gave the formula in a post further down the thread. Jon |
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