I co-worker has brought me an interesting welding job.

Hammer from a rather old revolver, it is broken in two at the thinnest
part (of course), the section through the break is about 1/4" square.

Big trouble is that there are two holes, one on either side of the
break, one of which has a 1/4dia. by 1/16" counterbore. I'm fearful
that too much heat will ruin these holes.

He is not planning on making this piece back into a shooter, but would
like it to be able to be handled and operated. I have both a tig
machine and a plumbers torch, and I am torn between silver soldering it,
tig brazing it, and welding it. I think in terms of added heat and
potential disasters, that soldering is the safest of the options. Will
silver soldered steel hold up to use, is there prep that I need to do?
I've silver soldered brass and copper stuff but never steel. I assume
the same flux will do.

The hammer is currently fixtured up on a piece of aluminum with the gap
neatly closed up, but now I wonder if I should have used steel so the
hammer will expand and contract at the same rate as the backing plate, I
chose aluminum to reduce the risk of accidentally attaching the hammer
to the fixture.

A secondary consideration in choosing a joining method is to use a
filler material that will be reasonably easy to file away where it
interferes with the re-assembly of the revolver.

Am I looking for something impossible?

How would you approach this problem?

Thanks guys.

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:34:57 -0400, Stuart Wheaton
wrote:

He is not planning on making this piece back into a shooter, but would
like it to be able to be handled and operated.
======
How about high-strength epoxy? If it will hold the wings on
airliners...

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.

F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:34:57 -0400, Stuart Wheaton
wrote:


He is not planning on making this piece back into a shooter, but would
like it to be able to be handled and operated.

======
How about high-strength epoxy? If it will hold the wings on
airliners...

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
============
Merchants have no country.
The mere spot they stand on
does not constitute so strong an attachment
as that from which they draw their gains.

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826),
U.S. president. Letter, 17 March 1814.


Not enough contact area would be my first wild guess.

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:34:57 -0400, Stuart Wheaton wrote:

I co-worker has brought me an interesting welding job.

Hammer from a rather old revolver, it is broken in two at the thinnest
part (of course), the section through the break is about 1/4" square.

snip



Am I looking for something impossible?

How would you approach this problem?

Thanks guys.


What's the problem with making and heat treating a replacement from scratch?


Mark Rand
RTFM

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:32:22 +0100, Mark Rand wrote:
On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:34:57 -0400, Stuart Wheaton wrote:

I co-worker has brought me an interesting welding job.

Hammer from a rather old revolver, it is broken in two at the thinnest
part (of course), the section through the break is about 1/4" square.

How would you approach this problem?

What's the problem with making and heat treating a replacement from scratch?

Or, going to http://www.gunpartscorp.com/ and seeing if they stock it...
That's how _I_ would handle it.

cavelamb himself wrote:
F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:34:57 -0400, Stuart Wheaton
wrote:


He is not planning on making this piece back into a shooter, but
would like it to be able to be handled and operated.

======
How about high-strength epoxy? If it will hold the wings on
airliners...


Not enough contact area would be my first wild guess.

I'd also like to avoid adding any significant material in the break. My
hope is that solder or tig braze will wick into the break and not
greatly change the geometry. Revolvers can be so tricky to get timed
properly & I don't want to make things worse.

Stuart Wheaton wrote:

cavelamb himself wrote:

F. George McDuffee wrote:

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:34:57 -0400, Stuart Wheaton
wrote:


He is not planning on making this piece back into a shooter, but
would like it to be able to be handled and operated.


======
How about high-strength epoxy? If it will hold the wings on
airliners...



Not enough contact area would be my first wild guess.


I'd also like to avoid adding any significant material in the break. My
hope is that solder or tig braze will wick into the break and not
greatly change the geometry. Revolvers can be so tricky to get timed
properly & I don't want to make things worse.

Might it be possible to drill the parts for a shear pin?
Then solder or braze as you think best.

But the pin would take the shear load of impact (and maybe help with
alignment).

Just a thought...


Richard

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:57:55 -0500, F George McDuffee wrote:
On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:34:57 -0400, Stuart Wheaton
wrote:

He is not planning on making this piece back into a shooter, but would
like it to be able to be handled and operated.
======
How about high-strength epoxy? If it will hold the wings on
airliners...

Not on a hammer, for sure. I tried using epoxy on a mosin-nagant bolt,
it did not work. In fact, I would not re-weld this hammer back at all.
I would try to find a replacement.

i

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:32:22 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:34:57 -0400, Stuart Wheaton wrote:

I co-worker has brought me an interesting welding job.

Hammer from a rather old revolver, it is broken in two at the thinnest
part (of course), the section through the break is about 1/4" square.

snip



Am I looking for something impossible?

How would you approach this problem?

Thanks guys.


What's the problem with making and heat treating a replacement from scratch?


Mark Rand
RTFM

Ditto that. This is saw and file work starting with an appropriate
thickness of your favorite tool steel. If it has an extra wide spur,
weld up that end, then file before heat treating. I've done hands,
etc. Of course, if Numrich Arms has the part, go that way. It would
probably need fitting with stones.

Pete Keillor

In article ,
Stuart Wheaton wrote:

I co-worker has brought me an interesting welding job.

Hammer from a rather old revolver, it is broken in two at the thinnest
part (of course), the section through the break is about 1/4" square.

Big trouble is that there are two holes, one on either side of the
break, one of which has a 1/4dia. by 1/16" counterbore. I'm fearful
that too much heat will ruin these holes.

He is not planning on making this piece back into a shooter, but would
like it to be able to be handled and operated. I have both a tig
machine and a plumbers torch, and I am torn between silver soldering it,
tig brazing it, and welding it. I think in terms of added heat and
potential disasters, that soldering is the safest of the options. Will
silver soldered steel hold up to use, is there prep that I need to do?
I've silver soldered brass and copper stuff but never steel. I assume
the same flux will do.

The hammer is currently fixtured up on a piece of aluminum with the gap
neatly closed up, but now I wonder if I should have used steel so the
hammer will expand and contract at the same rate as the backing plate, I
chose aluminum to reduce the risk of accidentally attaching the hammer
to the fixture.

A secondary consideration in choosing a joining method is to use a
filler material that will be reasonably easy to file away where it
interferes with the re-assembly of the revolver.

Am I looking for something impossible?

How would you approach this problem?

Thanks guys.

If finding a replacement is impossible and you don't want to make a new
one from scratch...

To weld this you need to make a jig that can hold both halves so they
are indexed on some pins, then grind the break till you have a v-groove
on both sides.
Once you grind the V-grooves you will loose the alignment of the break,
hence the alignment pins.
Once you have the parts ground and positioned, start welding it.

I would use a high strength alloy like Inconel or Hastelloy, but you
could just use a slightly stronger steel TIG rod, like ER80S-D2.

http://tigdepot.net/products_details_cart.php?productid=124

USe a really small wire and a very low amperage to weld.
You will have to tack first from one side, then flip over, and re-clamp,
then lay your first pass, then flip again and keep welding and flipping.

You are going to screw up the heat treat of the piece, but it could be
re-heat-treated.
Once you have the piece weld, then go in with a mill or drill press and
a set of cobalt drill bits and redrill the holes.

Of course, buying a new part or making one will put the gun back in as-new
condition. Since the owner does not intend to fire this weapon, but just
wants to look at it, handle it and show it, and since you have already gone
to the trouble of clamping it up, what do you risk by attempting a fix? I
suggest silver solder, with paste flux *IN* the joint--not just *on* it.

Since aluminum has high thermal conductivity, I hope it does not act as too
much of a heat sink. You can minimize this by heating the aluminum along
with the part, but then, of course, you get expansion. Why don't you
calculate how much differential expansion you will get between room temp and
the melting temp of the silver solder, and see whether it really matters.
The distance on which to base the calculation is the distance between the
clamps.

On Sep 1, 2:34 pm, Stuart Wheaton wrote:
I co-worker has brought me an interesting welding job.

Hammer from a rather old revolver, it is broken in two at the thinnest
part (of course), the section through the break is about 1/4" square.

Big trouble is that there are two holes, one on either side of the
break, one of which has a 1/4dia. by 1/16" counterbore. I'm fearful
that too much heat will ruin these holes.

He is not planning on making this piece back into a shooter, but would
like it to be able to be handled and operated. I have both a tig
machine and a plumbers torch, and I am torn between silver soldering it,
tig brazing it, and welding it. I think in terms of added heat and
potential disasters, that soldering is the safest of the options. Will
silver soldered steel hold up to use, is there prep that I need to do?
I've silver soldered brass and copper stuff but never steel. I assume
the same flux will do.

The hammer is currently fixtured up on a piece of aluminum with the gap
neatly closed up, but now I wonder if I should have used steel so the
hammer will expand and contract at the same rate as the backing plate, I
chose aluminum to reduce the risk of accidentally attaching the hammer
to the fixture.

A secondary consideration in choosing a joining method is to use a
filler material that will be reasonably easy to file away where it
interferes with the re-assembly of the revolver.

Am I looking for something impossible?

How would you approach this problem?

Thanks guys.

I'd braze it back together. I'd make a jig from a 1/4" plate with
holes to put pins through the existing holes for alignment and add a
couple of 1/4" holes to run bolts and washers through so the washers
held the parts stationary and a larger hole to get to the backside of
the joint, then grind the joint and mentioned earlier. You could tig
it like this too, but I always found brazing was strong enough if done
right

On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 00:48:13 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:

Of course, buying a new part or making one will put the gun back in as-new
condition. Since the owner does not intend to fire this weapon, but just
wants to look at it, handle it and show it,
Unfortunately, unless it has been rendered inoperable, it WILL be
fired again.

and since you have already gone
to the trouble of clamping it up, what do you risk by attempting a fix? I
suggest silver solder, with paste flux *IN* the joint--not just *on* it.

Since aluminum has high thermal conductivity, I hope it does not act as too
much of a heat sink. You can minimize this by heating the aluminum along
with the part, but then, of course, you get expansion. Why don't you
calculate how much differential expansion you will get between room temp and
the melting temp of the silver solder, and see whether it really matters.
The distance on which to base the calculation is the distance between the
clamps.

Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Stuart Wheaton wrote:

He is not planning on making this piece back into a shooter, but would
like it to be able to be handled and operated. I have both a tig
machine and a plumbers torch, and I am torn between silver soldering it,
tig brazing it, and welding it. I think in terms of added heat and
potential disasters, that soldering is the safest of the options. Will
silver soldered steel hold up to use, is there prep that I need to do?
I've silver soldered brass and copper stuff but never steel. I assume
the same flux will do.

If it is a nice clean break I'd use silver braze. I bought some 56% silver
stuff a while back on advice from the list and have used it to effect
emergency repairs on a lot of broken bits of metal at work that are
stressed.

Clean, Clean, Clean, black flux, thin piece of silver braze between surfaces
(hammer it thin if needed), orient so that capillary attraction can suck
things together.

If I can do it you can too.

Wes

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:34:57 -0400, Stuart Wheaton
wrote:

I co-worker has brought me an interesting welding job.

Hammer from a rather old revolver, it is broken in two at the thinnest
part (of course), the section through the break is about 1/4" square.

Big trouble is that there are two holes, one on either side of the
break, one of which has a 1/4dia. by 1/16" counterbore. I'm fearful
that too much heat will ruin these holes.

He is not planning on making this piece back into a shooter, but would
like it to be able to be handled and operated. I have both a tig
machine and a plumbers torch, and I am torn between silver soldering it,
tig brazing it, and welding it. I think in terms of added heat and
potential disasters, that soldering is the safest of the options. Will
silver soldered steel hold up to use, is there prep that I need to do?
I've silver soldered brass and copper stuff but never steel. I assume
the same flux will do.

The hammer is currently fixtured up on a piece of aluminum with the gap
neatly closed up, but now I wonder if I should have used steel so the
hammer will expand and contract at the same rate as the backing plate, I
chose aluminum to reduce the risk of accidentally attaching the hammer
to the fixture.

A secondary consideration in choosing a joining method is to use a
filler material that will be reasonably easy to file away where it
interferes with the re-assembly of the revolver.

Am I looking for something impossible?

How would you approach this problem?

Thanks guys.

Id contact Nurmrich Arms, Gun Parts Inc or a host of others and see
about buying another hammer before I did anything, first.

Then Id probably tig, after printing the hammer very very well.

Gunner

"Gerald Miller" wrote: Unfortunately, unless it has been rendered
inoperable, it WILL be fired again.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And if the hammer fails again, how would that be dangerous?

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 04:12:33 GMT, Leo Lichtman wrote:

"Gerald Miller" wrote: Unfortunately, unless it has been rendered
inoperable, it WILL be fired again.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And if the hammer fails again, how would that be dangerous?

He may have to resort to using fists and teeth in a not too
advantageous situation.

i

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 04:12:33 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote: Unfortunately, unless it has been rendered
inoperable, it WILL be fired again.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And if the hammer fails again, how would that be dangerous?

My point being that any gun, kept "for display only", should be
rendered inoperable. Otherwise, down the inheritance line, someone,
unfamiliar with the reasoning behind the limitation, will assume
serviceability.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada