Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old August 28th 07, 03:05 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Should I heat treat ?

I have machined some replacement bushings for a motorcycle swing arm . The
inner sleeve is 4140 steel approx. 1" in diameter, there will be an ampco 18
bushing 1.6" long riding on it . This unit will see maybe 20 degrees
rotation in normal use . I was originally planning on hardening the inner
(steel) sleeve before final sizing . I do have a light duty toolpost
grinder , and can get the proper stones . I'm at .008" -.010" oversize now
for a .002 clearance fit .
I'm wondering if I need to harden them as originally planned ... or if a
nicely ground finish without hardening will give acceptable wear - I only
wanna do this once . I do have what I need to treat these , I'm just trying
to be lazy ...

--

Snag aka OSG #1
'90 Ultra , "Strider"
The road goes on forever ...
none to one to reply



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Old August 28th 07, 05:51 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Should I heat treat ?

How hard are the factory bushings?


"Snag" wrote in message
.. .
I have machined some replacement bushings for a motorcycle swing arm .
The inner sleeve is 4140 steel approx. 1" in diameter, there will be an
ampco 18 bushing 1.6" long riding on it . This unit will see maybe 20
degrees rotation in normal use . I was originally planning on hardening
the inner (steel) sleeve before final sizing . I do have a light duty
toolpost grinder , and can get the proper stones . I'm at .008" -.010"
oversize now for a .002 clearance fit .
I'm wondering if I need to harden them as originally planned ... or if a
nicely ground finish without hardening will give acceptable wear - I only
wanna do this once . I do have what I need to treat these , I'm just
trying to be lazy ...

--

Snag aka OSG #1
'90 Ultra , "Strider"
The road goes on forever ...
none to one to reply


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Old August 28th 07, 11:45 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 111
Default Should I heat treat ?

Tony wrote:
How hard are the factory bushings?


"Snag" wrote in message
.. .
I have machined some replacement bushings for a motorcycle swing
arm .


The factory bushings are a rubber/silicone/steel unit , designed to absorb
vibration at the expense of handling . The early rubbermount Harley touring
models have a history of high speed handling problems , partly due to the
OEM swingarm pivot bushings . Aftermarket suppliers make something similar
to what I'm doing , but they're real spendy . I could have spent nearly a
thousand bucks on the mods I'm doing if I used their parts , materials have
cost me less than a c-note ...
I'm not in a great big hurry to finish these , won't be installing them
until this winter when I tear the bike down for other items that also need
attention .
--

Snag aka OSG #1
'90 Ultra , "Strider"
The road goes on forever ...
none to one to reply


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Old August 28th 07, 12:01 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Should I heat treat ?

If it's your own bike and you know about the issue, why not do it the
simple way and see if they wear excessively? I don't think it's
necessary to design bearings for long lifetime if you keep them
greased and can easily make replacements.

Comments, anyone?

jw

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Old August 29th 07, 01:06 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Should I heat treat ?

If these are replacing rubber bushings I don't see the need to heat treat.
However you may want to consider polyurethane bushings as a replacement,
like the off-roaders 4 wheelers use.

Tony


"Snag" wrote in message
news
Tony wrote:
How hard are the factory bushings?


"Snag" wrote in message
.. .
I have machined some replacement bushings for a motorcycle swing
arm .


The factory bushings are a rubber/silicone/steel unit , designed to
absorb vibration at the expense of handling . The early rubbermount Harley
touring models have a history of high speed handling problems , partly due
to the OEM swingarm pivot bushings . Aftermarket suppliers make something
similar to what I'm doing , but they're real spendy . I could have spent
nearly a thousand bucks on the mods I'm doing if I used their parts ,
materials have cost me less than a c-note ...
I'm not in a great big hurry to finish these , won't be installing them
until this winter when I tear the bike down for other items that also need
attention .
--

Snag aka OSG #1
'90 Ultra , "Strider"
The road goes on forever ...
none to one to reply




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Old August 29th 07, 02:22 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Aug 2006
Posts: 111
Default Should I heat treat ?

Tony wrote:
If these are replacing rubber bushings I don't see the need to heat
treat. However you may want to consider polyurethane bushings as a
replacement, like the off-roaders 4 wheelers use.

Tony


These bushing assemblies attach the front of the swingarm (rear fork , to
some) to the pivot shaft . This shaft attaches to the frame , and also
supports the rear of the engine/transmission assembly . This is an 800 pound
touring motorcycle ... and those composite bushing assemblies are quite a
bit more complicated than a "rubber bushing" .
--
Snag aka OSG #1
'90 Ultra , "Strider"
The road goes on forever ...
none to one to reply


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Old August 29th 07, 04:32 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Should I heat treat ?

How are they any different than the rubber bushings in automotive spring
shackles, shock absorbers, sway bars?



Snag" wrote in message
.. .
Tony wrote:
If these are replacing rubber bushings I don't see the need to heat
treat. However you may want to consider polyurethane bushings as a
replacement, like the off-roaders 4 wheelers use.

Tony


These bushing assemblies attach the front of the swingarm (rear fork ,
to some) to the pivot shaft . This shaft attaches to the frame , and also
supports the rear of the engine/transmission assembly . This is an 800
pound touring motorcycle ... and those composite bushing assemblies are
quite a bit more complicated than a "rubber bushing" .
--
Snag aka OSG #1
'90 Ultra , "Strider"
The road goes on forever ...
none to one to reply


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Old August 29th 07, 08:49 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Should I heat treat ?

On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:22:01 -0500, "Snag"
wrote:

Tony wrote:
If these are replacing rubber bushings I don't see the need to heat
treat. However you may want to consider polyurethane bushings as a
replacement, like the off-roaders 4 wheelers use.


These bushing assemblies attach the front of the swingarm (rear fork , to
some) to the pivot shaft . This shaft attaches to the frame , and also
supports the rear of the engine/transmission assembly . This is an 800 pound
touring motorcycle ... and those composite bushing assemblies are quite a
bit more complicated than a "rubber bushing" .


What you're making is similar to these, no? http://tinyurl.com/2el9xx
Those are delrin with high carbon steel sleeves. I didn't ask if
they're heat treated, but I suspect so.

Actually, I just pinged Kevin there and will letcha know.

Snarl

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Old August 29th 07, 11:40 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Should I heat treat ?

wrote:
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:22:01 -0500, "Snag"
wrote:

Tony wrote:
If these are replacing rubber bushings I don't see the need to heat
treat. However you may want to consider polyurethane bushings as a
replacement, like the off-roaders 4 wheelers use.


These bushing assemblies attach the front of the swingarm (rear
fork , to some) to the pivot shaft . This shaft attaches to the
frame , and also supports the rear of the engine/transmission
assembly . This is an 800 pound touring motorcycle ... and those
composite bushing assemblies are quite a bit more complicated than a
"rubber bushing" .


What you're making is similar to these, no?
http://tinyurl.com/2el9xx
Those are delrin with high carbon steel sleeves. I didn't ask if
they're heat treated, but I suspect so.

Actually, I just pinged Kevin there and will letcha know.

Snarl


Actually , the ones I've made are as close to the OEM cleve block
dimensions as I can get (a kind soul sent me some cad files ...wanna copy ?)
.. All the other small parts will still be used , including the compliance
ring on the outside of the unit .
I looked at the sta-bo and another , couldn't see from the pics where they
allow rotation between the swingarm and the pivot bolt . The inner sleeve on
these will be held captive between the tranny case and the outer rubber
mounts , just as original . The outer shell will rotate with the swing arm .
I haven't decided yet how I'm going to establish end play , I can either
press precisely , or set tthe outer to a preset depth and shim the thrust
faces .
I got all the stuff together to heat these , and still can't decide if
they really need it .
--

Snag aka OSG #1
'90 Ultra , "Strider"
The road goes on forever ...
none to one to reply


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Old August 30th 07, 06:20 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Should I heat treat ?

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:40:44 -0500, "Snag"
wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:22:01 -0500, "Snag"
wrote:

Tony wrote:
If these are replacing rubber bushings I don't see the need to heat
treat. However you may want to consider polyurethane bushings as a
replacement, like the off-roaders 4 wheelers use.

These bushing assemblies attach the front of the swingarm (rear
fork , to some) to the pivot shaft . This shaft attaches to the
frame , and also supports the rear of the engine/transmission
assembly . This is an 800 pound touring motorcycle ... and those
composite bushing assemblies are quite a bit more complicated than a
"rubber bushing" .


What you're making is similar to these, no? http://tinyurl.com/2el9xx
Those are delrin with high carbon steel sleeves. I didn't ask if
they're heat treated, but I suspect so.

Actually, I just pinged Kevin there and will letcha know.

Snarl


Actually , the ones I've made are as close to the OEM cleve block
dimensions as I can get (a kind soul sent me some cad files ...wanna copy ?)


Yes please... that from D-rog? Addy is: BS 37 at snarls hog den dot
com. Remove th' spaces and change th' obvious.

. All the other small parts will still be used , including the compliance
ring on the outside of the unit .
I looked at the sta-bo and another , couldn't see from the pics where they
allow rotation between the swingarm and the pivot bolt . The inner sleeve on
these will be held captive between the tranny case and the outer rubber
mounts , just as original . The outer shell will rotate with the swing arm .
I haven't decided yet how I'm going to establish end play , I can either
press precisely , or set tthe outer to a preset depth and shim the thrust
faces .
I got all the stuff together to heat these , and still can't decide if
they really need it .


Kevin got back to me and said they are heat treated. FWIW, I also
asked him about longevity (100,000 miles) and he sent me this:

"Yes - the high carbon steel is heat treated.
Yes - STA-BO I will last well over that mileage. The first
STA-BO I we ever installed was on a 1986 FXRS with a
103 CID engine and currently has 300,000 miles on it
and still going."

When I had that last belt replacement done, I asked 'em to check th'
swing arm bushings whilest they're in there, and they said they were
fine. Methinks th' cocksucker never even checked 'em since there's
140,000+ miles on 'em. So for this winter I'm gonna make a set Sta-bo
style and we'll see if that helps... unless I go th' way you are.

I'll tell ya this much, as far as customer service goes, sta-bo
answers questions post haste. You might wanna ping 'em about rotation
between the swingarm and the pivot bolt.

Snarl



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