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Should I heat treat ?
I have machined some replacement bushings for a motorcycle swing arm . The
inner sleeve is 4140 steel approx. 1" in diameter, there will be an ampco 18 bushing 1.6" long riding on it . This unit will see maybe 20 degrees rotation in normal use . I was originally planning on hardening the inner (steel) sleeve before final sizing . I do have a light duty toolpost grinder , and can get the proper stones . I'm at .008" -.010" oversize now for a .002 clearance fit . I'm wondering if I need to harden them as originally planned ... or if a nicely ground finish without hardening will give acceptable wear - I only wanna do this once . I do have what I need to treat these , I'm just trying to be lazy ... -- Snag aka OSG #1 '90 Ultra , "Strider" The road goes on forever ... none to one to reply |
Should I heat treat ?
How hard are the factory bushings?
"Snag" wrote in message .. . I have machined some replacement bushings for a motorcycle swing arm . The inner sleeve is 4140 steel approx. 1" in diameter, there will be an ampco 18 bushing 1.6" long riding on it . This unit will see maybe 20 degrees rotation in normal use . I was originally planning on hardening the inner (steel) sleeve before final sizing . I do have a light duty toolpost grinder , and can get the proper stones . I'm at .008" -.010" oversize now for a .002 clearance fit . I'm wondering if I need to harden them as originally planned ... or if a nicely ground finish without hardening will give acceptable wear - I only wanna do this once . I do have what I need to treat these , I'm just trying to be lazy ... -- Snag aka OSG #1 '90 Ultra , "Strider" The road goes on forever ... none to one to reply |
Should I heat treat ?
Tony wrote:
How hard are the factory bushings? "Snag" wrote in message .. . I have machined some replacement bushings for a motorcycle swing arm . The factory bushings are a rubber/silicone/steel unit , designed to absorb vibration at the expense of handling . The early rubbermount Harley touring models have a history of high speed handling problems , partly due to the OEM swingarm pivot bushings . Aftermarket suppliers make something similar to what I'm doing , but they're real spendy . I could have spent nearly a thousand bucks on the mods I'm doing if I used their parts , materials have cost me less than a c-note ... I'm not in a great big hurry to finish these , won't be installing them until this winter when I tear the bike down for other items that also need attention . -- Snag aka OSG #1 '90 Ultra , "Strider" The road goes on forever ... none to one to reply |
Should I heat treat ?
If it's your own bike and you know about the issue, why not do it the
simple way and see if they wear excessively? I don't think it's necessary to design bearings for long lifetime if you keep them greased and can easily make replacements. Comments, anyone? jw |
Should I heat treat ?
If these are replacing rubber bushings I don't see the need to heat treat.
However you may want to consider polyurethane bushings as a replacement, like the off-roaders 4 wheelers use. Tony "Snag" wrote in message .. . Tony wrote: How hard are the factory bushings? "Snag" wrote in message .. . I have machined some replacement bushings for a motorcycle swing arm . The factory bushings are a rubber/silicone/steel unit , designed to absorb vibration at the expense of handling . The early rubbermount Harley touring models have a history of high speed handling problems , partly due to the OEM swingarm pivot bushings . Aftermarket suppliers make something similar to what I'm doing , but they're real spendy . I could have spent nearly a thousand bucks on the mods I'm doing if I used their parts , materials have cost me less than a c-note ... I'm not in a great big hurry to finish these , won't be installing them until this winter when I tear the bike down for other items that also need attention . -- Snag aka OSG #1 '90 Ultra , "Strider" The road goes on forever ... none to one to reply |
Should I heat treat ?
Tony wrote:
If these are replacing rubber bushings I don't see the need to heat treat. However you may want to consider polyurethane bushings as a replacement, like the off-roaders 4 wheelers use. Tony These bushing assemblies attach the front of the swingarm (rear fork , to some) to the pivot shaft . This shaft attaches to the frame , and also supports the rear of the engine/transmission assembly . This is an 800 pound touring motorcycle ... and those composite bushing assemblies are quite a bit more complicated than a "rubber bushing" . -- Snag aka OSG #1 '90 Ultra , "Strider" The road goes on forever ... none to one to reply |
Should I heat treat ?
How are they any different than the rubber bushings in automotive spring
shackles, shock absorbers, sway bars? Snag" wrote in message .. . Tony wrote: If these are replacing rubber bushings I don't see the need to heat treat. However you may want to consider polyurethane bushings as a replacement, like the off-roaders 4 wheelers use. Tony These bushing assemblies attach the front of the swingarm (rear fork , to some) to the pivot shaft . This shaft attaches to the frame , and also supports the rear of the engine/transmission assembly . This is an 800 pound touring motorcycle ... and those composite bushing assemblies are quite a bit more complicated than a "rubber bushing" . -- Snag aka OSG #1 '90 Ultra , "Strider" The road goes on forever ... none to one to reply |
Should I heat treat ?
On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:22:01 -0500, "Snag"
wrote: Tony wrote: If these are replacing rubber bushings I don't see the need to heat treat. However you may want to consider polyurethane bushings as a replacement, like the off-roaders 4 wheelers use. These bushing assemblies attach the front of the swingarm (rear fork , to some) to the pivot shaft . This shaft attaches to the frame , and also supports the rear of the engine/transmission assembly . This is an 800 pound touring motorcycle ... and those composite bushing assemblies are quite a bit more complicated than a "rubber bushing" . What you're making is similar to these, no? http://tinyurl.com/2el9xx Those are delrin with high carbon steel sleeves. I didn't ask if they're heat treated, but I suspect so. Actually, I just pinged Kevin there and will letcha know. Snarl |
Should I heat treat ?
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:40:44 -0500, "Snag"
wrote: wrote: On Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:22:01 -0500, "Snag" wrote: Tony wrote: If these are replacing rubber bushings I don't see the need to heat treat. However you may want to consider polyurethane bushings as a replacement, like the off-roaders 4 wheelers use. These bushing assemblies attach the front of the swingarm (rear fork , to some) to the pivot shaft . This shaft attaches to the frame , and also supports the rear of the engine/transmission assembly . This is an 800 pound touring motorcycle ... and those composite bushing assemblies are quite a bit more complicated than a "rubber bushing" . What you're making is similar to these, no? http://tinyurl.com/2el9xx Those are delrin with high carbon steel sleeves. I didn't ask if they're heat treated, but I suspect so. Actually, I just pinged Kevin there and will letcha know. Snarl Actually , the ones I've made are as close to the OEM cleve block dimensions as I can get (a kind soul sent me some cad files ...wanna copy ?) Yes please... that from D-rog? Addy is: BS 37 at snarls hog den dot com. Remove th' spaces and change th' obvious. . All the other small parts will still be used , including the compliance ring on the outside of the unit . I looked at the sta-bo and another , couldn't see from the pics where they allow rotation between the swingarm and the pivot bolt . The inner sleeve on these will be held captive between the tranny case and the outer rubber mounts , just as original . The outer shell will rotate with the swing arm . I haven't decided yet how I'm going to establish end play , I can either press precisely , or set tthe outer to a preset depth and shim the thrust faces . I got all the stuff together to heat these , and still can't decide if they really need it . Kevin got back to me and said they are heat treated. FWIW, I also asked him about longevity (100,000 miles) and he sent me this: "Yes - the high carbon steel is heat treated. Yes - STA-BO I will last well over that mileage. The first STA-BO I we ever installed was on a 1986 FXRS with a 103 CID engine and currently has 300,000 miles on it and still going." When I had that last belt replacement done, I asked 'em to check th' swing arm bushings whilest they're in there, and they said they were fine. Methinks th' cocksucker never even checked 'em since there's 140,000+ miles on 'em. So for this winter I'm gonna make a set Sta-bo style and we'll see if that helps... unless I go th' way you are. I'll tell ya this much, as far as customer service goes, sta-bo answers questions post haste. You might wanna ping 'em about rotation between the swingarm and the pivot bolt. Snarl |
Should I heat treat ?
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Should I heat treat ?
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:55:44 -0400, "Doug"
wrote: sezz: Yes please... that from D-rog? Nope! That guy's a slacker... Well, yeah, but how big are those cad files, slacker? Snarl |
Should I heat treat ?
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Should I heat treat ?
Doug wrote:
sezz: Well, yeah, but how big are those cad files, slacker? I really don't have anything to do with those. I was plannin' on sending you (Snarl) a snail mail copy (cd or paper , no matter to me) , since you're on dial-up and the files are big . I'll include my notes from the stuff I've made ... Doug , you wanna copy too ? If so , ping me your snail mail address too and I'll make you copies too . Hit reply-to and change snagnone to snagone ... -- Snag aka OSG #1 '90 Ultra , "Strider" The road goes on forever ... none to one to reply |
Should I heat treat ?
Snag sezz:
Doug , you wanna copy too ? If so , ping me your snail mail address too and I'll make you copies too . Hit reply-to and change snagnone to snagone ... I sent you mail from an embarqmail.com address. -- Doug |
Should I heat treat ?
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:30:14 -0500, "Snag"
wrote: Doug wrote: sezz: Well, yeah, but how big are those cad files, slacker? I really don't have anything to do with those. I was plannin' on sending you (Snarl) a snail mail copy (cd or paper , no matter to me) , since you're on dial-up and the files are big . I'll include my notes from the stuff I've made ... Doug , you wanna copy too ? If so , ping me your snail mail address too and I'll make you copies too . Hit reply-to and change snagnone to snagone ... You've got mail. Snarl |
Should I heat treat ?
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:07:14 -0400, "Doug"
wrote: sezz: Well, yeah, but how big are those cad files, slacker? I really don't have anything to do with those. -- Doug But I could for a nominal fee... $8.00 bucks and a pair of ice cold Coors? I might send ya some stuff this winter that needs yer talents. Snarl |
Should I heat treat ?
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Should I heat treat ?
Doug wrote:
Snag sezz: Doug , you wanna copy too ? If so , ping me your snail mail address too and I'll make you copies too . Hit reply-to and change snagnone to snagone ... I sent you mail from an embarqmail.com address. Did you despam my email address ? I haven't received it yet ... -- Snag aka OSG #1 '90 Ultra , "Strider" The road goes on forever ... none to one to reply |
Should I heat treat ?
Snag sezz:
Did you despam my email address ? I haven't received it yet ... Yessir. I'll try again... -- Doug |
Should I heat treat ?
On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:28:01 -0400, "Doug"
wrote: sezz: $8.00 bucks and a pair of ice cold Coors? What do I look like? A cheap, beer whore? Throw in a stinky cigar and I'm there! Will a nice Montechristo for yer pimp work? I might send ya some stuff this winter that needs yer talents. You know how to find me. I'm in the very early stages of starting a little side business doing that kind of stuff too. You can be one of my "preferred clients"... Oh great, now I gotta dig out th' Woodford's and Cuban's. Oh well, I guess it's worth it for th' super quick return policy you employ snerk. Snarl |
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