Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default source for replacement friction disc?

I have an ancient chain hoist which wasn't holding the hook. As fast as I
cranked it up, the hook would slip back down once I let go of the chain.
I tore it down and found that the friction clutch disc had worn to the point
where it hardly bore.

This is an awesome old chain hoist which Ernie gave me. I really want to make
it work correctly again. Has anyone else solved the problem of where to get
a custom one-off replacement friction disc?

For an explanation of how the friction clutch works in a chain hoist, see:
http://tinyurl.com/2nkh5j

I see lots of manufacturers of friction material listed on thomasnet.com, but
finding one which will make an affordable one-off part for me is totally another
thing. If I had to, I could buy the smallest sheet possible and make the disc
on a lathe, using a method about like this:

mount an X-acto knife in a boring tool on center height, parallel to lathe axis
put a lathe center in the lathe spindle
move the cross-slide until the knife point is on the lathe axis
i.e. pointing exactly at the lathe center
zero the cross-slide dial & remove lathe center
put the faceplate on the lathe spindle
cut a disk of plywood the size of the faceplate
cut a disk of the friction material the size of the plywood (or smaller)
punch identical bolt circles in the material and the plywood
bolt through to the faceplate, so its faceplate|plywood|friction material
crank the X-acto knife out the radius of the inner hole
start the lathe and feed the knife in, cutting out the ID
crank the X-acto knife out to the radius of the disc OD
cut out the disc

But I don't want to buy a whole sheet!

Anybody been through this?

Grant
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Default source for replacement friction disc?

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:46:16 -0700, Grant Erwin wrote:
I have an ancient chain hoist which wasn't holding the hook. As fast as I
cranked it up, the hook would slip back down once I let go of the chain.
I tore it down and found that the friction clutch disc had worn to the point
where it hardly bore.


How could they wear it to this point, if it became unusable before it
got to this point?

The various friction disks that I had seemed not too easy to
make. (esp. when the risks are considered)

i
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Default source for replacement friction disc?

I've never thought of a chain hoist as a precision machine. Does the
friction material have to be perfectly round that you have to do all the
steps you have described?
Why not just use the technique for making common gaskets?

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
|I have an ancient chain hoist which wasn't holding the hook. As fast as I
| cranked it up, the hook would slip back down once I let go of the chain.
| I tore it down and found that the friction clutch disc had worn to the
point
| where it hardly bore.
|
| This is an awesome old chain hoist which Ernie gave me. I really want to
make
| it work correctly again. Has anyone else solved the problem of where to
get
| a custom one-off replacement friction disc?
|
| For an explanation of how the friction clutch works in a chain hoist, see:
| http://tinyurl.com/2nkh5j
|
| I see lots of manufacturers of friction material listed on thomasnet.com,
but
| finding one which will make an affordable one-off part for me is totally
another
| thing. If I had to, I could buy the smallest sheet possible and make the
disc
| on a lathe, using a method about like this:
|
| mount an X-acto knife in a boring tool on center height, parallel to lathe
axis
| put a lathe center in the lathe spindle
| move the cross-slide until the knife point is on the lathe axis
| i.e. pointing exactly at the lathe center
| zero the cross-slide dial & remove lathe center
| put the faceplate on the lathe spindle
| cut a disk of plywood the size of the faceplate
| cut a disk of the friction material the size of the plywood (or smaller)
| punch identical bolt circles in the material and the plywood
| bolt through to the faceplate, so its faceplate|plywood|friction material
| crank the X-acto knife out the radius of the inner hole
| start the lathe and feed the knife in, cutting out the ID
| crank the X-acto knife out to the radius of the disc OD
| cut out the disc
|
| But I don't want to buy a whole sheet!
|
| Anybody been through this?
|
| Grant


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Default source for replacement friction disc?

Grant Erwin wrote:

I have an ancient chain hoist which wasn't holding the hook. As fast as I
cranked it up, the hook would slip back down once I let go of the chain.
I tore it down and found that the friction clutch disc had worn to the
point
where it hardly bore.

This is an awesome old chain hoist which Ernie gave me. I really want to
make
it work correctly again. Has anyone else solved the problem of where to get
a custom one-off replacement friction disc?

...............What are the dimensions?
But I don't want to buy a whole sheet!

Anybody been through this?

Grant

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Default source for replacement friction disc?

Ignoramus2733 wrote:

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:46:16 -0700, Grant Erwin wrote:

I have an ancient chain hoist which wasn't holding the hook. As fast as I
cranked it up, the hook would slip back down once I let go of the chain.
I tore it down and found that the friction clutch disc had worn to the point
where it hardly bore.



How could they wear it to this point, if it became unusable before it
got to this point?


There was probably a long period where it pretty much worked but would slip
under a heavy load so they'd use it on a light load. It's a pretty old hoist,
made by Timken in Philadelphia. Anyway, it's certainly worn. I'll tear it down
again and shoot a photo of the worn disc. There's a thin edge where it isn't
worn, that part is about 1/4", the rest is worn down to about 3/16".

Grant
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Default source for replacement friction disc?

E Kinney wrote:

I've never thought of a chain hoist as a precision machine. Does the
friction material have to be perfectly round that you have to do all the
steps you have described?
Why not just use the technique for making common gaskets?


That's simply the only way I know of to cut clean disks in tough rubber
sheets. How would you do it? The OD would be pretty easy, could cut that
with tin snips. But the ID - oy vey. Well, maybe a hole saw would work.

No, it isn't precision, but the closer you cut it to perfect, the more
material you have that bears so the better it will work. You could hack
out the middle with a chisel and make a square hole, but the friction
disc would have less bearing area ..

GWE

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
|I have an ancient chain hoist which wasn't holding the hook. As fast as I
| cranked it up, the hook would slip back down once I let go of the chain.
| I tore it down and found that the friction clutch disc had worn to the
point
| where it hardly bore.
|
| This is an awesome old chain hoist which Ernie gave me. I really want to
make
| it work correctly again. Has anyone else solved the problem of where to
get
| a custom one-off replacement friction disc?
|
| For an explanation of how the friction clutch works in a chain hoist, see:
| http://tinyurl.com/2nkh5j
|
| I see lots of manufacturers of friction material listed on thomasnet.com,
but
| finding one which will make an affordable one-off part for me is totally
another
| thing. If I had to, I could buy the smallest sheet possible and make the
disc
| on a lathe, using a method about like this:
|
| mount an X-acto knife in a boring tool on center height, parallel to lathe
axis
| put a lathe center in the lathe spindle
| move the cross-slide until the knife point is on the lathe axis
| i.e. pointing exactly at the lathe center
| zero the cross-slide dial & remove lathe center
| put the faceplate on the lathe spindle
| cut a disk of plywood the size of the faceplate
| cut a disk of the friction material the size of the plywood (or smaller)
| punch identical bolt circles in the material and the plywood
| bolt through to the faceplate, so its faceplate|plywood|friction material
| crank the X-acto knife out the radius of the inner hole
| start the lathe and feed the knife in, cutting out the ID
| crank the X-acto knife out to the radius of the disc OD
| cut out the disc
|
| But I don't want to buy a whole sheet!
|
| Anybody been through this?
|
| Grant


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Default source for replacement friction disc?

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:46:16 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote:

I have an ancient chain hoist which wasn't holding the hook. As fast as I
cranked it up, the hook would slip back down once I let go of the chain.
I tore it down and found that the friction clutch disc had worn to the point
where it hardly bore.

This is an awesome old chain hoist which Ernie gave me. I really want to make
it work correctly again. Has anyone else solved the problem of where to get
a custom one-off replacement friction disc?

For an explanation of how the friction clutch works in a chain hoist, see:
http://tinyurl.com/2nkh5j

I see lots of manufacturers of friction material listed on thomasnet.com, but
finding one which will make an affordable one-off part for me is totally another
thing. If I had to, I could buy the smallest sheet possible and make the disc
on a lathe, using a method about like this:

mount an X-acto knife in a boring tool on center height, parallel to lathe axis
put a lathe center in the lathe spindle
move the cross-slide until the knife point is on the lathe axis
i.e. pointing exactly at the lathe center
zero the cross-slide dial & remove lathe center
put the faceplate on the lathe spindle
cut a disk of plywood the size of the faceplate
cut a disk of the friction material the size of the plywood (or smaller)
punch identical bolt circles in the material and the plywood
bolt through to the faceplate, so its faceplate|plywood|friction material
crank the X-acto knife out the radius of the inner hole
start the lathe and feed the knife in, cutting out the ID
crank the X-acto knife out to the radius of the disc OD
cut out the disc

But I don't want to buy a whole sheet!

Anybody been through this?

Grant


I have but it was in Singapore so it won't be of much help in the U.S.
but contact any industrial clutch/brake supplier -
http://allfrictions.com/home.html
for example



Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)
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Default source for replacement friction disc?

Grant, I don't have an easy solution for you. I was curious how big a whole
sheet is, and how a big sheet would be shipped without breaking it (the
package value is more than the product value), and what kind of price you're
seeing for a whole sheet.

The only suggestions I could think of would be to try your local
bearing/industrial supplier, or a shop that rebuilds car/truck automatic
transmissions.

The last chain hoist I had apart was a poorly made $15 Chinese 1 ton unit.
The brake disk in it had chips in it that looked like brass, and was a free
floating disk (closer to 1/8" thick, about 4" in diameter, with maybe a 1"
center hole)

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I have an ancient chain hoist which wasn't holding the hook. As fast as I
cranked it up, the hook would slip back down once I let go of the chain.
I tore it down and found that the friction clutch disc had worn to the
point
where it hardly bore.

This is an awesome old chain hoist which Ernie gave me. I really want to
make
it work correctly again. Has anyone else solved the problem of where to
get
a custom one-off replacement friction disc?

For an explanation of how the friction clutch works in a chain hoist, see:
http://tinyurl.com/2nkh5j

I see lots of manufacturers of friction material listed on thomasnet.com,
but
finding one which will make an affordable one-off part for me is totally
another
thing. If I had to, I could buy the smallest sheet possible and make the
disc
on a lathe, using a method about like this:

mount an X-acto knife in a boring tool on center height, parallel to lathe
axis
put a lathe center in the lathe spindle
move the cross-slide until the knife point is on the lathe axis
i.e. pointing exactly at the lathe center
zero the cross-slide dial & remove lathe center
put the faceplate on the lathe spindle
cut a disk of plywood the size of the faceplate
cut a disk of the friction material the size of the plywood (or smaller)
punch identical bolt circles in the material and the plywood
bolt through to the faceplate, so its faceplate|plywood|friction material
crank the X-acto knife out the radius of the inner hole
start the lathe and feed the knife in, cutting out the ID
crank the X-acto knife out to the radius of the disc OD
cut out the disc

But I don't want to buy a whole sheet!

Anybody been through this?

Grant



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

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Default source for replacement friction disc?

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:46:16 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Grant Erwin quickly quoth:

I have an ancient chain hoist which wasn't holding the hook. As fast as I
cranked it up, the hook would slip back down once I let go of the chain.
I tore it down and found that the friction clutch disc had worn to the point
where it hardly bore.

This is an awesome old chain hoist which Ernie gave me. I really want to make
it work correctly again. Has anyone else solved the problem of where to get
a custom one-off replacement friction disc?

For an explanation of how the friction clutch works in a chain hoist, see:
http://tinyurl.com/2nkh5j


Ooh, looks like a fun and tasty tome. Hmm, which is better: Guillet's,
Martin's, Sahag's, Myszka's, or Durley's version?


I see lots of manufacturers of friction material listed on thomasnet.com, but
finding one which will make an affordable one-off part for me is totally another
thing. If I had to, I could buy the smallest sheet possible and make the disc
on a lathe, using a method about like this:


Check with a local brake shop who still makes their own product. They
could either bond or rivet it for you, or sell you the friction
material.

I've never even seen friction material for sale, so this is a SWAG.

--
Books are the compasses and telescopes and sextants and charts which other
men have prepared to help us navigate the dangerous seas of human life.
--Jesse Lee Bennett


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Default source for replacement friction disc?

In article ,
Grant Erwin wrote:

E Kinney wrote:

I've never thought of a chain hoist as a precision machine. Does the
friction material have to be perfectly round that you have to do all the
steps you have described?
Why not just use the technique for making common gaskets?


That's simply the only way I know of to cut clean disks in tough rubber
sheets. How would you do it? The OD would be pretty easy, could cut that
with tin snips. But the ID - oy vey. Well, maybe a hole saw would work.

No, it isn't precision, but the closer you cut it to perfect, the more
material you have that bears so the better it will work. You could hack
out the middle with a chisel and make a square hole, but the friction
disc would have less bearing area ..


I bet in the old days the friction material was heavy leather. With
modern adhesives, especially urethane, one can face-glue multiple sheets
to make the needed thickness, if a single piece cannot be obtained.

As for cutting, given that this is a one off, a scrollsaw or a coping
saw and a jewelers bench pin
(http://www.contenti.com/products/ben...s/110-253.html) could work.

Make up a full-scale drawing on paper, temporarily glue to stock, cut to
line, remove paper.

Joe Gwinn
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On Aug 25, 5:46 am, Grant Erwin wrote:

mount an X-acto knife in a boring tool on center height, parallel to lathe axis
put a lathe center in the lathe spindle



Anybody been through this?

Grant


My first thought is to check at your thrift/junk store for disc brake
pads if they would be big enough. But obviously if you are thinking
of using an knife blade to cut it, the material must be much different
from brake pad material.

Dan


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Default source for replacement friction disc?



Grant Erwin wrote:
I have an ancient chain hoist which wasn't holding the hook. As fast as I
cranked it up, the hook would slip back down once I let go of the chain.
I tore it down and found that the friction clutch disc had worn to the
point
where it hardly bore.

This is an awesome old chain hoist which Ernie gave me. I really want to
make
it work correctly again. Has anyone else solved the problem of where to get
a custom one-off replacement friction disc?

For an explanation of how the friction clutch works in a chain hoist, see:
http://tinyurl.com/2nkh5j

I see lots of manufacturers of friction material listed on
thomasnet.com, but
finding one which will make an affordable one-off part for me is totally
another
thing. If I had to, I could buy the smallest sheet possible and make the
disc
on a lathe, using a method about like this:

mount an X-acto knife in a boring tool on center height, parallel to
lathe axis
put a lathe center in the lathe spindle
move the cross-slide until the knife point is on the lathe axis
i.e. pointing exactly at the lathe center
zero the cross-slide dial & remove lathe center
put the faceplate on the lathe spindle
cut a disk of plywood the size of the faceplate
cut a disk of the friction material the size of the plywood (or smaller)
punch identical bolt circles in the material and the plywood
bolt through to the faceplate, so its faceplate|plywood|friction material
crank the X-acto knife out the radius of the inner hole
start the lathe and feed the knife in, cutting out the ID
crank the X-acto knife out to the radius of the disc OD
cut out the disc

But I don't want to buy a whole sheet!

Anybody been through this?

Grant


Some farm machinery use brake disk material in slip clutches. Maybe a
dealer parts dept. could match up something.

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On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:50:08 -0700, Grant Erwin wrote:
Ignoramus2733 wrote:

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:46:16 -0700, Grant Erwin wrote:

I have an ancient chain hoist which wasn't holding the hook. As fast as I
cranked it up, the hook would slip back down once I let go of the chain.
I tore it down and found that the friction clutch disc had worn to the point
where it hardly bore.



How could they wear it to this point, if it became unusable before it
got to this point?


There was probably a long period where it pretty much worked but
would slip under a heavy load so they'd use it on a light load. It's
a pretty old hoist, made by Timken in Philadelphia. Anyway, it's
certainly worn. I'll tear it down again and shoot a photo of the
worn disc. There's a thin edge where it isn't worn, that part is
about 1/4", the rest is worn down to about 3/16".


I think that there is something else involved besides just wear. Maybe
something needs to be re-tensioned or a part is missing. I cannot see
how you can get from a working hoist, to a hoist that does not hold
the hook at all, with just wear, by using the hoist for lifting.

Or maybe this hook suffered a catastrophic failure? (Like load somehow
falling and tearing the clutch or whatever). Is there any way to check
the chain for elongation (like measure every link with a inside
caliper and see if the lengths are consistent).

i
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"Ignoramus3635" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:50:08 -0700, Grant Erwin

wrote:
Ignoramus2733 wrote:

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:46:16 -0700, Grant Erwin

wrote:

I have an ancient chain hoist which wasn't holding the hook. As

fast as I
cranked it up, the hook would slip back down once I let go of the

chain.
I tore it down and found that the friction clutch disc had worn

to the point
where it hardly bore.


How could they wear it to this point, if it became unusable

before it
got to this point?


There was probably a long period where it pretty much worked but
would slip under a heavy load so they'd use it on a light load.

It's
a pretty old hoist, made by Timken in Philadelphia. Anyway, it's
certainly worn. I'll tear it down again and shoot a photo of the
worn disc. There's a thin edge where it isn't worn, that part is
about 1/4", the rest is worn down to about 3/16".


I think that there is something else involved besides just wear.

Maybe
something needs to be re-tensioned or a part is missing. I cannot

see
how you can get from a working hoist, to a hoist that does not hold
the hook at all, with just wear, by using the hoist for lifting.

Or maybe this hook suffered a catastrophic failure? (Like load

somehow
falling and tearing the clutch or whatever). Is there any way to

check
the chain for elongation (like measure every link with a inside
caliper and see if the lengths are consistent).

i


I used one of those lever hoists last year to pull out some tree
roots - worked well, but just as I was finishing the heavens opened
and everything got drenched. As I brought in back indoors I gave it a
liberal squirt of WD40 to chase the water off, and that was it's
downfall - never managed to get it working again. I stripped it down,
cleaned the clutch friction plate and pressure plates with acetone to
get rid of the WD40, put it back together, adjusted it as per the
manufacturers downloadeable docs, but it never would hold even it's
own weight - never figured it out - even stripped & re-assembled it
three times. Ended up slinging it out and buying a new one. (but I
kept the chain & hook G)

AWEM




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"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I have an ancient chain hoist which wasn't holding the hook. As fast as I
cranked it up, the hook would slip back down once I let go of the chain.
I tore it down and found that the friction clutch disc had worn to the
point
where it hardly bore.

This is an awesome old chain hoist which Ernie gave me. I really want to
make
it work correctly again. Has anyone else solved the problem of where to
get
a custom one-off replacement friction disc?


How about a clutch/brake relining shop?

-Carl
--
The future isn't what it used to be.


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"Usual suspect." wrote in message
...
Brake pads on cars must work when they are very hot. I have used

sheet
cork as a brake pad in low speed cool applications.


After all, oil immersed clutches in motorcyles - well certainly in the
1960's when I played with them - were just cork pads bonded to the
plates.

AWEM


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"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
I have an ancient chain hoist which wasn't holding the hook. As fast as I
cranked it up, the hook would slip back down once I let go of the chain.
I tore it down and found that the friction clutch disc had worn to the
point
where it hardly bore.

This is an awesome old chain hoist which Ernie gave me. I really want to
make
it work correctly again. Has anyone else solved the problem of where to
get
a custom one-off replacement friction disc?

For an explanation of how the friction clutch works in a chain hoist, see:
http://tinyurl.com/2nkh5j

I see lots of manufacturers of friction material listed on thomasnet.com,
but
finding one which will make an affordable one-off part for me is totally
another
thing. If I had to, I could buy the smallest sheet possible and make the
disc
on a lathe, using a method about like this:

mount an X-acto knife in a boring tool on center height, parallel to lathe
axis
put a lathe center in the lathe spindle
move the cross-slide until the knife point is on the lathe axis
i.e. pointing exactly at the lathe center
zero the cross-slide dial & remove lathe center
put the faceplate on the lathe spindle
cut a disk of plywood the size of the faceplate
cut a disk of the friction material the size of the plywood (or smaller)
punch identical bolt circles in the material and the plywood
bolt through to the faceplate, so its faceplate|plywood|friction material
crank the X-acto knife out the radius of the inner hole
start the lathe and feed the knife in, cutting out the ID
crank the X-acto knife out to the radius of the disc OD
cut out the disc

But I don't want to buy a whole sheet!

Anybody been through this?

Grant


Grant,
If you decide to make a new disc McMaster-Carr sells friction material on
pg. 3380. 1/4" x 5" strip (6175K146) is $15.12 / ft.
Paul


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