Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default drill press holding fixture

I gave blood this morning. All over my radial arm drill that I got a couple
months ago. The part snatched as the drill broke though. it rode up the
drill and then popped the vice grip holding clamp off and threw it. Then the
work made made a quick revolution before i could get out of the way.

I need to get a better way to hold work in the drill press. A couple vice
grips and pieces of tubing just aren't getting it. I've tried using a spare
Kurt type vise, but that is cumbersome. half the parts won't fit in and its
difficult to quickly line the work up under the drill and through an open
spot in the vise.

what's normally used to hold all sorts of odd ball one of parts in a large
drill? Just fabrication grade work here. I use a mill and bolt the part to
it for stuff needing accuracy.

Karl


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Default drill press holding fixture

Karl Townsend wrote:
I gave blood this morning. All over my radial arm drill that I got a couple
months ago. The part snatched as the drill broke though. it rode up the
drill and then popped the vice grip holding clamp off and threw it. Then the
work made made a quick revolution before i could get out of the way.

I need to get a better way to hold work in the drill press. A couple vice
grips and pieces of tubing just aren't getting it. I've tried using a spare
Kurt type vise, but that is cumbersome. half the parts won't fit in and its
difficult to quickly line the work up under the drill and through an open
spot in the vise.

what's normally used to hold all sorts of odd ball one of parts in a large
drill? Just fabrication grade work here. I use a mill and bolt the part to
it for stuff needing accuracy.


You could try mounting the vise to a piece of
1/4 steel and then mounting an arm on the
steel that can be pushed up against the drill
press column. That will stop the rotational
force and still let you position the work
freehand.


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On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:33:27 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I gave blood this morning. All over my radial arm drill that I got a couple
months ago. The part snatched as the drill broke though. it rode up the
drill and then popped the vice grip holding clamp off and threw it. Then the
work made made a quick revolution before i could get out of the way.

I need to get a better way to hold work in the drill press. A couple vice
grips and pieces of tubing just aren't getting it. I've tried using a spare
Kurt type vise, but that is cumbersome. half the parts won't fit in and its
difficult to quickly line the work up under the drill and through an open
spot in the vise.

what's normally used to hold all sorts of odd ball one of parts in a large
drill? Just fabrication grade work here. I use a mill and bolt the part to
it for stuff needing accuracy.

Karl



A decent drill press vice (lighter than a milling vice) is handy for smaller
stuff. If there's a chance that it might get away from you then either clamp
it with a T bolt, block and goose-neck clamp or just leave a T bolt sticking
up out of a slot so that the vice will run into it if it tries to take off.
Won't stop the work riding up the drill, but will act as a second hand if
things get a bit lively. If the drill is big enough and the work thin enough
that you might not be able to hold it down, then go back to clamping the vice
on the table.


Better still, use the drill properly... Clamp the work solidly to the table
with goose neck clamps, blocks and T bolts or similar and a bit of scrap for
protecting the table, then move the drill head to where the hole needs to be.
That's why its a radial arm drill :-)


Oh, and keep some superglue and insulting tape where you can grab them. Not
for holding the work down, but for temporary leak prevention to bodily parts
(Actually, I have used superglue many times for work clamping).


Regards
Mark Rand (I do egg sucking lessons as well :-)
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Karl Townsend wrote:
I gave blood this morning. All over my radial arm drill that I got a couple
months ago. The part snatched as the drill broke though. it rode up the
drill and then popped the vice grip holding clamp off and threw it. Then the
work made made a quick revolution before i could get out of the way.

I need to get a better way to hold work in the drill press. A couple vice
grips and pieces of tubing just aren't getting it. I've tried using a spare
Kurt type vise, but that is cumbersome. half the parts won't fit in and its
difficult to quickly line the work up under the drill and through an open
spot in the vise.

what's normally used to hold all sorts of odd ball one of parts in a large
drill? Just fabrication grade work here. I use a mill and bolt the part to
it for stuff needing accuracy.

Karl


For smaller work on drill presses those quick acting cam type vices work
well. They are typically heavy enough to be hand held and slid around
to align the work under the drill.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32

The above is a Wilton, the Enco brand looks the same and is somewhat
less expensive.

There is a similar vice I've seen (never used one) that has stacks of
swiveling plates instead of regular jaws to hold other than square work.
Enco doesn't appear to have one but I think I'd like to get one. The
one I saw isn't quick acting but has a screw.

To hold work that is too big or too scary clamp it to the table with T
bolts and something like these hold down clamps.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

With a radial drill and work clamped directly to the table a good way to
pick up a center punch mark is to chuck a dead center or a rod ground to
a similar point and with the column and head loose and spindle running
(I was always taught to use reverse but I don't think it matters) set
the point in the punch mark then gently clamp the head and arm. You'll
be right over the punch mark.

Paul

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A lot of stuff can be clamped to a sacrificial wooden board that is
held in a vise.


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On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:19:46 -0500, Paul wrote:
Karl Townsend wrote:
I gave blood this morning. All over my radial arm drill that I got a couple
months ago. The part snatched as the drill broke though. it rode up the
drill and then popped the vice grip holding clamp off and threw it. Then the
work made made a quick revolution before i could get out of the way.

I need to get a better way to hold work in the drill press. A couple vice
grips and pieces of tubing just aren't getting it. I've tried using a spare
Kurt type vise, but that is cumbersome. half the parts won't fit in and its
difficult to quickly line the work up under the drill and through an open
spot in the vise.

what's normally used to hold all sorts of odd ball one of parts in a large
drill? Just fabrication grade work here. I use a mill and bolt the part to
it for stuff needing accuracy.

Karl


For smaller work on drill presses those quick acting cam type vices work
well. They are typically heavy enough to be hand held and slid around
to align the work under the drill.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32

The above is a Wilton, the Enco brand looks the same and is somewhat
less expensive.


I have a vise like this, though I have not yet put it in my DP, it is
very handy.

i
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Default drill press holding fixture

there is a very cool drill press vise called "float lock" - they show up
from time to time on ebay - a complete one has a block to attach to the
table, and will hold virtually any part up to about 12 or 18 inches - you
prrobably want to find one of them
"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
I gave blood this morning. All over my radial arm drill that I got a
couple months ago. The part snatched as the drill broke though. it rode up
the drill and then popped the vice grip holding clamp off and threw it.
Then the work made made a quick revolution before i could get out of the
way.

I need to get a better way to hold work in the drill press. A couple vice
grips and pieces of tubing just aren't getting it. I've tried using a
spare Kurt type vise, but that is cumbersome. half the parts won't fit in
and its difficult to quickly line the work up under the drill and through
an open spot in the vise.

what's normally used to hold all sorts of odd ball one of parts in a large
drill? Just fabrication grade work here. I use a mill and bolt the part to
it for stuff needing accuracy.

Karl





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Karl Townsend wrote:

The part snatched as the drill broke though. it rode up the
drill and then popped the vice grip holding clamp off and threw it. Then
the work made made Â*a quick revolution before i could get out of the way.


Hope it didn't hurt too much, but a bit of pain is OK. :-) We all learn
quicker by punishment. EG

But what size of drill? Was the pilot hole too big? Sheet metal? Too small
vice (not heavy enough)?
Normaly, a stop in one of the T-slots is enough if you can prevent the vice
from rotating. That stop is just a knurled round, about 100..150 mm long
with a thread at one end and a mating T-slot screw.

Nick
PS: Two cuts last sunday: One when I stumbled over something laying in the
way and me graping for hold. Unfortunatly, that hold was a bit in the
shaper sticking out and making a small cut. Moved that out of the way. And
then pulling out some tool from a holder for several MT4 tools and drawing
my finger over the edge of some 30mm mill. Outch! No more sharp tools in
that holder. Lesson learned.

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there is a very cool drill press vise called "float lock" - they show up
from time to time on ebay - a complete one has a block to attach to the
table, and will hold virtually any part up to about 12 or 18 inches - you
prrobably want to find one of them


You mean this?
http://www.eaglerockonline.com/index...w&LineItem=125

I have one. Its not long enough for the handle to get to the column on my
radial arm drill press. So, i haven't used it much. You've got me thinking;
I'll make up something to catch this unit from rotation that can be quickly
removed when I need the full 2' throat.

Karl


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But what size of drill? Was the pilot hole too big? Sheet metal? Too small
vice (not heavy enough)?
Normaly, a stop in one of the T-slots is enough if you can prevent the
vice
from rotating. That stop is just a knurled round, about 100..150 mm long
with a thread at one end and a mating T-slot screw.


I was in a hurry, first mistake. I need a bracket to mount a panel mount
on/off rotating electrical switch. Found a piece of 1/8 x 3" by long AL at
the finger brake. Bent it to a 90 and cut it to length, second mistake (no
way to easily clamp now) Small drill had 1/2" in chuck so I punched and
drilled pilot. Went over to big drill with 1 3/16 bit, clamped on 3' 1"x1"
tube with vice grip and sat it on a small piece of 1" thick metal with a
hole in it on the table. Flimsy set up, but I'm in a hurry. Its the third
mistake that will really get you.

You're right, there's enough pain that I will get a large drill press vise
for this machine and find a way to quickly mount and remove it

Karl




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On Aug 22, 4:33 pm, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
I gave blood this morning. All over my radial arm drill that I got a couple
months ago. The part snatched as the drill broke though. it rode up the
drill and then popped the vice grip holding clamp off and threw it. Then the
work made made a quick revolution before i could get out of the way.


Radials are serious machines and you *MUST* clamp every part. A guy at
a customer's shop (about two years ago) had his arm PULLED OFF as his
shop coat got caught in a radial. (Since reattached - has some feeling/
movement)

Try and train your eye to be able to see if you've clamped the head
over your center punch/drill mark when you're drilling. Eventually you
don't need to stop the machine. By plunging the drill bit into the
hole, clamping the head, and retracting it, you can tell if the bit is
off center just be watching it come out of the hole. They will spring
away if they're not right. You'll be able to drill quite accuratly,
but it does take some practice.

I used to have to drill and tap hundreds of M16 holes in the trim die
shoes during fitting. If I had stopped the machine to realign the head
every time, I would have had my ass chewed hourly.

Good luck.

Regards,

Robin

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For me the thing about work holding on the drill press is set up time.
I.e., it's too much. Particularly, using a vise and bolting the vise
down through the slots. Ack! I have improved that somewhat with a
quick-acting vise & having it mounted on a plate which I clamp with
Kant-Twists:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/dpvise.jpg

An idea that I had and never got around to implementing was using a
pneumatic cylinder that would hold work down on the table. Maybe a 1"
bore, 4" stroke, with a foot to fit common shapes. Probably some
linkage to keep things in place. I actually have a cylinder, so it
could get done some day. I'd be interested to hear if someone has tried
this sort of thing. Particularly if it didn't work, so I'd save the
trouble.

Bob
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For me the thing about work holding on the drill press is set up time.
I.e., it's too much. Particularly, using a vise and bolting the vise down
through the slots. Ack! I have improved that somewhat with a
quick-acting vise & having it mounted on a plate which I clamp with
Kant-Twists:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/dpvise.jpg


Thanks for the tip. I'll do the same thing. It seems like just as soon as I
bolt a vise on, I need a quick job with nothing in the way.

Karl


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On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:33:27 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I gave blood this morning. All over my radial arm drill that I got a couple
months ago. The part snatched as the drill broke though. it rode up the
drill and then popped the vice grip holding clamp off and threw it. Then the
work made made a quick revolution before i could get out of the way.



I've just thought of the other thing to get...

A pendulum or telescopic antenna type trip switch for the drill, optionally
connected to a DC injection plug braking system can be a life saver. The
pendulum/antenna hangs down so that if the work gets away from you, you or it
hits the switch and cuts the motor power. In the case of the plug braking
system, it injects a lot of DC into the motor windings and the motor stops in
a fraction of a turn. We have this setup on the little 4' x 3' table Richmond
radial arm drill in the Labs workshop at work and it is very effective.

example at:-
http://rswww.com

search for part #
498-5567

Hope the bleeding's stopped by now!

regards
Mark Rand
RTFM
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Keywords:

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:33:27 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:

I gave blood this morning. All over my radial arm drill that I got a couple
months ago. The part snatched as the drill broke though. it rode up the
drill and then popped the vice grip holding clamp off and threw it. Then the
work made made a quick revolution before i could get out of the way.


I had a similar adventure in my youth. No serious harm done, but it
definitely gets your attention.

My favorite solution is a quick acting cam clamp that slides up & down
the drill press column. The shop I used to frequent at MIT had one, and
I bought one for my Dad's drill press and got one for the drill press at
work. Unfortunately, the last time I looked they had vanished off the
face of the earth. I've changed jobs & would love to have one on the
drill press in our lab, but there are none to be found.

They were black oxide coated, with a small (~ 1 1/2" square) aluminum
foot. There was a small round lever that activated the clamp. When it
was loose, you could slide the clamp up & down the column and rotate it
freely. Once you had the foot parked on the work, you flipped the lever
around and it simultaneously locked the clamp on the column and applied
considerable downward force on the work. I never had one slip on me.
You could also use it to hold a small vise to the table.

They probably show up on eBay occasionally, but I haven't looked
recently.

Doug White


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yes, that is the one (note, I'm top posting to annoy the heck out of those
bothered by such violations of non-existant rules)

Most of the time the little attachment block, shown on the far right of the
vise in the image, is lost. You are supposed to affixt that attachment
block into a T slot, the round part of the vise slides in the block (unless
you clamp it down), so the whole assembly is easy to move in translation but
impossible to rotate, just what you want. You don't need the handle to hit
the column, just make the missing little block
"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...

there is a very cool drill press vise called "float lock" - they show up
from time to time on ebay - a complete one has a block to attach to the
table, and will hold virtually any part up to about 12 or 18 inches - you
prrobably want to find one of them


You mean this?
http://www.eaglerockonline.com/index...w&LineItem=125

I have one. Its not long enough for the handle to get to the column on my
radial arm drill press. So, i haven't used it much. You've got me
thinking; I'll make up something to catch this unit from rotation that can
be quickly removed when I need the full 2' throat.

Karl





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On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:08:12 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

For me the thing about work holding on the drill press is set up time.
I.e., it's too much. Particularly, using a vise and bolting the vise
down through the slots. Ack! I have improved that somewhat with a
quick-acting vise & having it mounted on a plate which I clamp with
Kant-Twists:
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/dpvise.jpg

An idea that I had and never got around to implementing was using a
pneumatic cylinder that would hold work down on the table. Maybe a 1"
bore, 4" stroke, with a foot to fit common shapes. Probably some
linkage to keep things in place. I actually have a cylinder, so it
could get done some day. I'd be interested to hear if someone has tried
this sort of thing. Particularly if it didn't work, so I'd save the
trouble.

Bob


I use Kant-Twists (Damn nice product) clamps too. I usually
clamp right to the to top of the vise with one big one. If I
feel more hold down power is needed I'll add some more
clamps. I like the Vise-Grip C-Clamp pliers. Like this:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32

The tips are small enough to fit into many places that other
clamps can't. I don't have any with the swivel pads, but if
come across a deal on some...

I have several different size/type vises used here and
there. So I'm a bit reluctant to bolt a large plate
underneath.

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Mark Rand wrote:

Oh, and keep some superglue and insulting tape where you can grab them. Not
for holding the work down, but for temporary leak prevention to bodily parts
(Actually, I have used superglue many times for work clamping).



Insulting tape? Do you always add insult to injury?


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On Aug 23, 7:14 am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
You mean this?http://www.eaglerockonline.com/index...w&LineItem=125

I have one. Its not long enough for the handle to get to the column on my
radial armdrill press. So, i haven't used it much. You've got me thinking;
I'll make up something to catch this unit from rotation that can be quickly
removed when I need the full 2' throat.



To me, the key is to install the mounting clamp. I wasn't 100% on
drilling a hole in my drill press table at home. But I drilled one
about eight inches to the right and two inches closer to the front of
the table from where the quill touches. You can slide the clamp,
swivel it parallel to the table, and even rotate it up from the
table. You then tighten the clamp. It stays installed and I usually
leave it with a little cheap "toolmaker' s vise" in the jaw.

The vise mounted on a plate is the single best tip I have seen in
years. As soon as pictures were first posted, I started looking for a
used Heinrich. Found a five inch, mounted it on a large plate. Slide
it anywhere on the big Clausing table at work and a combination of two
hold down clamps will hold it. Post of the decade.

As for the hold-down clamp that attaches to the column
.. . . My favorite solution is a quick acting cam clamp that slides up
& down
the drill press column. The shop I used to frequent at MIT had one,
and
I bought one for my Dad's drill press and got one for the drill press
at
work. Unfortunately, the last time I looked they had vanished off
the
face of the earth. I've changed jobs & would love to have one on the
drill press in our lab, but there are none to be found.

The original was the Welch Cam-Lock Drill Press Clamp. Reid Tool sold
them for years. Travers has (at least they did a few months ago), an
import copy under the TTC brand. On the column if you need it. Out
of the way, if you don't. If you drill much plate or flat material,
well worth the money.

TAW

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yes, that is the one (note, I'm top posting to annoy the heck out of those
bothered by such violations of non-existant rules)

Most of the time the little attachment block, shown on the far right of
the vise in the image, is lost. You are supposed to affixt that
attachment block into a T slot, the round part of the vise slides in the
block (unless you clamp it down), so the whole assembly is easy to move in
translation but impossible to rotate, just what you want. You don't need
the handle to hit the column, just make the missing little block


I never even knew I had a part missing. thanks for pointing it out. I'll fix
this and my float lock will see a lot more service.

Karl


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Travers part #61-171-001. $77 + SH. Looks like you could make one.
But it also looks like it wouldn't work on a drill press that has a rack
on the side of the column for table raise/lower. Even if you modified it
to mount around the rack, it couldn't swivel on the column.


This wouldn't work on my machine (6" column with rack, unit is 2 3/4" for no
rack) but looks handy for anybody that has this size drill press.

Karl


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According to William Noble :
yes, that is the one (note, I'm top posting to annoy the heck out of those
bothered by such violations of non-existant rules)

Most of the time the little attachment block, shown on the far right of the
vise in the image, is lost. You are supposed to affixt that attachment
block into a T slot, the round part of the vise slides in the block (unless
you clamp it down), so the whole assembly is easy to move in translation but
impossible to rotate, just what you want. You don't need the handle to hit
the column, just make the missing little block


The one which I have has that block designed to clamp to the
edge of the table, instead of to a T-slot. Since my drill press (A
Taiwan made one from about 1977 or so) has a round table which is too
small for that, I have been keeping the Float-vise around waiting for a
larger drill press with which to use it.

However, I think that I will now make a collar to slide on the
column just above the table and to secure the sliding block fit for the
arm. That should allow me to use it with the current drill press, and
to swing it aside when it is not appropriate.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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On Aug 22, 3:33 pm, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
I gave blood this morning. All over my radial arm drill that I got a couple
months ago. The part snatched as the drill broke though. it rode up the
drill and then popped the vice grip holding clamp off and threw it. Then the
work made made a quick revolution before i could get out of the way.

I need to get a better way to hold work in the drill press. A couple vice
grips and pieces of tubing just aren't getting it. I've tried using a spare
Kurt type vise, but that is cumbersome. half the parts won't fit in and its
difficult to quickly line the work up under the drill and through an open
spot in the vise.

what's normally used to hold all sorts of odd ball one of parts in a large
drill? Just fabrication grade work here. I use a mill and bolt the part to
it for stuff needing accuracy.

Karl


Sorry to hear of the involuntary donation....didn't even get a chance
to have a pretty nurse to flirt with.

The recommendations for the vise on a plate and a Welch Cam-Lock Drill
Press Clamp should fit the bill.

A drill press is a deceptively dangerous machine...I have known
several people doing do-it-yourself amputations by getting in a hurry.

TMT



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DoN. Nichols wrote:
The one which I have has that block designed to clamp to the
edge of the table, instead of to a T-slot. ...
However, I think that I will now make a collar to slide on the
column just above the table and to secure the sliding block fit for the
arm. That should allow me to use it with the current drill press, and
to swing it aside when it is not appropriate.


Oh - good idea! Much better than the original way. Why didn't I think
of that?! Bob
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According to Bob Engelhardt :
DoN. Nichols wrote:


[ ... ]

However, I think that I will now make a collar to slide on the
column just above the table and to secure the sliding block fit for the
arm. That should allow me to use it with the current drill press, and
to swing it aside when it is not appropriate.


Oh - good idea! Much better than the original way. Why didn't I think
of that?! Bob


Why didn't *I* think of that before this discussion came up?
All those years when I could have been getting the benefit of mine. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.
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