Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml

....


And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml
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"Gunner" wrote in message
...



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml


Well, doggone. I've always wanted to be able to get to work before I get out
of bed, and now there's hope.


And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml


There goes the fork-lift business.

--
Ed Huntress


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Ed Huntress wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml


Well, doggone. I've always wanted to be able to get to work before I get out
of bed, and now there's hope.


And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml



There goes the fork-lift business.

--
Ed Huntress



For what it's worth, here is his presentation...

http://online.kitp.ucsb.edu/online/qo02/nimtz/
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cavelamb himself wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml



Well, doggone. I've always wanted to be able to get to work before I
get out of bed, and now there's hope.


And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml




There goes the fork-lift business.

--
Ed Huntress


For what it's worth, here is his presentation...

http://online.kitp.ucsb.edu/online/qo02/nimtz/



Please excuse replying to my own post, but...

8 c ????

But, sadly for Ed:

5 Superluminal velocities shorten the time span between
cause and effect. however tehy cannot be exchanged.
NO TIME MACHINE.

But I suspect you may have to change brake pads fairly often?

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"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml


Well, doggone. I've always wanted to be able to get to work before I get
out of bed, and now there's hope.


And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml



There goes the fork-lift business.

--
Ed Huntress


For what it's worth, here is his presentation...

http://online.kitp.ucsb.edu/online/qo02/nimtz/



.....I'm going to have to take their word for it.

--
Ed Huntress




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"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...
cavelamb himself wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml


Well, doggone. I've always wanted to be able to get to work before I get
out of bed, and now there's hope.


And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml



There goes the fork-lift business.

--
Ed Huntress


For what it's worth, here is his presentation...

http://online.kitp.ucsb.edu/online/qo02/nimtz/



Please excuse replying to my own post, but...

8 c ????

But, sadly for Ed:

5 Superluminal velocities shorten the time span between
cause and effect. however tehy cannot be exchanged.
NO TIME MACHINE.

But I suspect you may have to change brake pads fairly often?


Disk brakes? We don' use no steenking disk brakes. Dog clutches on all four
wheels.

They're hell on tires but they take away some variables.

--
Ed Huntress


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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:53:14 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml


Well, doggone. I've always wanted to be able to get to work before I get out
of bed, and now there's hope.


And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml


There goes the fork-lift business.


Nope. While you may levitate the load...the inertia is still there.
All it means is that forklift mechanics will have to have an EE or
better.

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Ed Huntress wrote:

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...

cavelamb himself wrote:


Ed Huntress wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
m...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml


Well, doggone. I've always wanted to be able to get to work before I get
out of bed, and now there's hope.



And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml



There goes the fork-lift business.

--
Ed Huntress


For what it's worth, here is his presentation...

http://online.kitp.ucsb.edu/online/qo02/nimtz/



Please excuse replying to my own post, but...

8 c ????

But, sadly for Ed:

5 Superluminal velocities shorten the time span between
cause and effect. however tehy cannot be exchanged.
NO TIME MACHINE.

But I suspect you may have to change brake pads fairly often?



Disk brakes? We don' use no steenking disk brakes. Dog clutches on all four
wheels.

They're hell on tires but they take away some variables.

--
Ed Huntress



I tried reading thru some of the pesentations.

Now I have a headache and I think I'll go lie down for a while...

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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:15:49 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...
cavelamb himself wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml


Well, doggone. I've always wanted to be able to get to work before I get
out of bed, and now there's hope.


And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml



There goes the fork-lift business.

--
Ed Huntress


For what it's worth, here is his presentation...

http://online.kitp.ucsb.edu/online/qo02/nimtz/



Please excuse replying to my own post, but...

8 c ????

But, sadly for Ed:

5 Superluminal velocities shorten the time span between
cause and effect. however tehy cannot be exchanged.
NO TIME MACHINE.

But I suspect you may have to change brake pads fairly often?


Disk brakes? We don' use no steenking disk brakes. Dog clutches on all four
wheels.

They're hell on tires but they take away some variables.


Nah..regen braking. When tampering with the laws of physics...never
use moving parts

Gunner
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"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:15:49 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...
cavelamb himself wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml


Well, doggone. I've always wanted to be able to get to work before I
get
out of bed, and now there's hope.


And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml



There goes the fork-lift business.

--
Ed Huntress


For what it's worth, here is his presentation...

http://online.kitp.ucsb.edu/online/qo02/nimtz/


Please excuse replying to my own post, but...

8 c ????

But, sadly for Ed:

5 Superluminal velocities shorten the time span between
cause and effect. however tehy cannot be exchanged.
NO TIME MACHINE.

But I suspect you may have to change brake pads fairly often?


Disk brakes? We don' use no steenking disk brakes. Dog clutches on all
four
wheels.

They're hell on tires but they take away some variables.


Nah..regen braking. When tampering with the laws of physics...never
use moving parts


Hey, when the shot pin goes in those clutches, NOTHING moves. No pad wear,
either.

--
Ed Huntress




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"Gunner" wrote in message
...



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml

...


And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml


I want my flying car that I was promised in the '60s!


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"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...

cavelamb himself wrote:


Ed Huntress wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
om...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml


Well, doggone. I've always wanted to be able to get to work before I
get out of bed, and now there's hope.



And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml



There goes the fork-lift business.

--
Ed Huntress


For what it's worth, here is his presentation...

http://online.kitp.ucsb.edu/online/qo02/nimtz/


Please excuse replying to my own post, but...

8 c ????

But, sadly for Ed:

5 Superluminal velocities shorten the time span between
cause and effect. however tehy cannot be exchanged.
NO TIME MACHINE.

But I suspect you may have to change brake pads fairly often?



Disk brakes? We don' use no steenking disk brakes. Dog clutches on all
four wheels.

They're hell on tires but they take away some variables.

--
Ed Huntress


I tried reading thru some of the pesentations.

Now I have a headache and I think I'll go lie down for a while...


You can get up yesterday!


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On Aug 17, 11:40 am, Gunner wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...2007/08/16/sci...

...

And levitation is a piece of cake.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevi...


Maybe we can get Algore to fix it?

John Martin

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"Ed Huntress" wrote:

There goes the fork-lift business.


But then I can bring really big stuff home on my 5x8' 2000# load trailer.
There is an upside to this.

Wes
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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:27:01 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:53:14 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml


Well, doggone. I've always wanted to be able to get to work before I get out
of bed, and now there's hope.


And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml


There goes the fork-lift business.


Nope. While you may levitate the load...the inertia is still there.
All it means is that forklift mechanics will have to have an EE or
better.



At last, employment for all the clever people that NASA trained as potential
Shuttle crews before they ran short of Shuttles :-)


Mark Rand
RTFM


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In article ,
"Tom Gardner" wrote:


I want my flying car that I was promised in the '60s!


I want to know what happened to all that "Electricity too cheap to
meter," heated roadways, etc, etc. that was supposed to come from
nuclear power plants.

The flying car would be nice too.

Where are those things, eh? What happened to them?
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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:40:48 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, John
Husvar quickly quoth:

In article ,
"Tom Gardner" wrote:


I want my flying car that I was promised in the '60s!


I want to know what happened to all that "Electricity too cheap to
meter," heated roadways, etc, etc. that was supposed to come from
nuclear power plants.


Can you say "totallyover****ingregulated"? I knew you could.
Dunno 'bout the heated roadway thing, though.


The flying car would be nice too.


Indeed.


Where are those things, eh? What happened to them?


They're still being made. One-offs, but soon(?) commercially
available. sigh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_car

--
Seen on a bumper sticker: ARM THE HOMELESS
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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:40:48 -0400, John Husvar wrote:
In article ,
"Tom Gardner" wrote:


I want my flying car that I was promised in the '60s!


I want to know what happened to all that "Electricity too cheap to
meter," heated roadways, etc, etc. that was supposed to come from
nuclear power plants.


Unfortunately, the leftists who want us to not pollute with carbons,
also want us to not build nuclear power plants which would allow us to
stop giving money to people in countries which hate us.

The flying car would be nice too.

Where are those things, eh? What happened to them?


Moller has a workable aircar but it's a bit spendy.

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Dave Hinz wrote:

Moller has a workable aircar but it's a bit spendy.



Purest, clearest, most expensive BS on the planet...



It's kinda like a government project.

It doesn't work - and you can't make it work.



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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:59:10 -0500, cavelamb himself wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

Moller has a workable aircar but it's a bit spendy.


Purest, clearest, most expensive BS on the planet...


er, OK. Seen one fly, you can buy one. Seems to meet "workable but
spendy" criteria to me. Not my dog, not my fight. You're picking a
throwaway response to a throwaway comment and sorry, I'm not all that
interested in playing.

It's kinda like a government project.
It doesn't work - and you can't make it work.


Right, because all gummint projects are exactly the same is that it?


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Dave Hinz wrote:

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:59:10 -0500, cavelamb himself wrote:

Dave Hinz wrote:


Moller has a workable aircar but it's a bit spendy.


Purest, clearest, most expensive BS on the planet...



er, OK. Seen one fly, you can buy one. Seems to meet "workable but
spendy" criteria to me. Not my dog, not my fight. You're picking a
throwaway response to a throwaway comment and sorry, I'm not all that
interested in playing.


WHEN and WHERE did you see one fly?

I'm kinda curious because in 40 years of development the thing has never
been off the tether.


You can invest a heap of money in the company - but you can not buy one.
There are none to buy.
No productions at all...


I'll let it go, but you lost 10 credibility points on this one, Dave.

And you only had 8...
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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:40:48 -0400, John Husvar
wrote:
In article ,
"Tom Gardner" wrote:


I want my flying car that I was promised in the '60s!


I want to know what happened to all that "Electricity too cheap to
meter," heated roadways, etc, etc. that was supposed to come from
nuclear power plants.

The flying car would be nice too.


No! To be more precise, HELL NO! Not unless and until computers
get good enough to do all the flying and there's no manual control
override option, and that'll be 100 years down the road.

I have to dodge ennough assholes in 2D space and coming from known
angles at relatively reasonable velocities. I don't even want to
THINK about the carnage in the skies if we let just anyone walk in and
get a license for their Flying Car.

Just think about it rationally - the same mix of old farts who
think 35 is plenty fast enough on the freeway, or can't turn their
heads so they just make lane changes blind. The rich who think their
Rolls or Beemer or Benz is a permit to own the road. The Steve
McQueen wannabees who think they're filming the Bullitt chase scene
every day. The well connected who can drive however they want because
they have their way to make all traffic tickets "disappear" at will.
And the immortal teenagers whose brains routinely write checks their
driving skills can't cash.

If they get pilots licenses, I'm going to walk - it'll be safer.

-- Bruce --

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Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:40:48 -0400, John Husvar
wrote:
In article ,
"Tom Gardner" wrote:


I want my flying car that I was promised in the '60s!

I want to know what happened to all that "Electricity too cheap to
meter," heated roadways, etc, etc. that was supposed to come from
nuclear power plants.

The flying car would be nice too.


No! To be more precise, HELL NO! Not unless and until computers
get good enough to do all the flying and there's no manual control
override option, and that'll be 100 years down the road.

I have to dodge ennough assholes in 2D space and coming from known
angles at relatively reasonable velocities. I don't even want to
THINK about the carnage in the skies if we let just anyone walk in and
get a license for their Flying Car.

Just think about it rationally - the same mix of old farts who
think 35 is plenty fast enough on the freeway, or can't turn their
heads so they just make lane changes blind. The rich who think their
Rolls or Beemer or Benz is a permit to own the road. The Steve
McQueen wannabees who think they're filming the Bullitt chase scene
every day. The well connected who can drive however they want because
they have their way to make all traffic tickets "disappear" at will.
And the immortal teenagers whose brains routinely write checks their
driving skills can't cash.

If they get pilots licenses, I'm going to walk - it'll be safer.

Even that won't save you: the junk will come crashing out of the sky on
our heads! ("The sky is falling!")
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Nimtz and Stahlhofen found that the reflected signal and its
quantum-tunneling doppelgänger arrived at their respective
photodetectors at the same time. That led them to the conclusion that,
in effect, the tunneling photons bridged the gap between the prisms
instantly, violating the 186,000-mile-per-second speed limit laid out in
the special theory of relativity.

"This is the only violation that I know of," Nimtz is quoted as saying.

The research hasn't appeared in a publication yet. In fact, the online
version was just submitted for review a couple of weeks ago. But it's
already drawn plenty of comments in the geek world, from A (for Ars
Technica) to Z (for ZDNet).

"Unfortunately, the claim is worse than weak; it is silly," Chris Lee
writes on Ars Technica.

Others are more cautious in their criticism, but the bottom line is that
physics can play tricks when you use quantum phenomena to look for
loopholes in relativity. Over the past several years, Nimtz has taken
aim at this subject multiple times, and he hasn't convincingly hit the
bull's-eye yet.

A seemingly faster-than-light effect can arise from the way a signal is
shifted as it travels through different media. The crest of a wave in
one medium may become a valley in another medium, and the valley may
become a crest. It may look as if that crest has zipped ahead faster
than the speed of light - but in actuality, it's just the same old wave
with its shape shifted.

msnbc
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In article ,
Bruce L. Bergman wrote:


Just think about it rationally - the same mix of old farts who
think 35 is plenty fast enough on the freeway, or can't turn their
heads so they just make lane changes blind. The rich who think their
Rolls or Beemer or Benz is a permit to own the road. The Steve
McQueen wannabees who think they're filming the Bullitt chase scene
every day. The well connected who can drive however they want because
they have their way to make all traffic tickets "disappear" at will.
And the immortal teenagers whose brains routinely write checks their
driving skills can't cash.

If they get pilots licenses, I'm going to walk - it'll be safer.

-- Bruce --


Well, get yer walkin' shoes on: Google Light Sport Pilot. Fly on yer
Driver's License.


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In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:40:48 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, John
Husvar quickly quoth:

In article ,
"Tom Gardner" wrote:


I want my flying car that I was promised in the '60s!


I want to know what happened to all that "Electricity too cheap to
meter," heated roadways, etc, etc. that was supposed to come from
nuclear power plants.


Can you say "totallyover****ingregulated"? I knew you could.


Verily and Amen, Brother.

Dunno 'bout the heated roadway thing, though.


That was to be one of the supposed benefits of having all that cheap
electricity. This was back in the Dark Ages. i.e 1950s.



The flying car would be nice too.


Indeed.


Except I do tend to agree with Bruce. There are too many people who
shouldn't be driving, let alone flying.



Where are those things, eh? What happened to them?


They're still being made. One-offs, but soon(?) commercially
available. sigh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_car


Oh, God, not a Studebaker engine! (Fondly (?) remembering my first owned
car.


--
Seen on a bumper sticker: ARM THE HOMELESS

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On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 08:39:35 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, John
Husvar quickly quoth:

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:40:48 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, John
Husvar quickly quoth:

In article ,
"Tom Gardner" wrote:


I want my flying car that I was promised in the '60s!

I want to know what happened to all that "Electricity too cheap to
meter," heated roadways, etc, etc. that was supposed to come from
nuclear power plants.


Can you say "totallyover****ingregulated"? I knew you could.


Verily and Amen, Brother.

Dunno 'bout the heated roadway thing, though.


That was to be one of the supposed benefits of having all that cheap
electricity. This was back in the Dark Ages. i.e 1950s.


Back when radioactivity was still harmless? Got it.


The flying car would be nice too.


Indeed.


Except I do tend to agree with Bruce. There are too many people who
shouldn't be driving, let alone flying.


Amen, bruddah. Too many people can't even steer, let alone drive.


Where are those things, eh? What happened to them?


They're still being made. One-offs, but soon(?) commercially
available. sigh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_car


Oh, God, not a Studebaker engine! (Fondly (?) remembering my first owned
car.


Mine was a '57 Chebby (BelAir 4dr HT, 283cid 2bbl w/ PowerPacked
heads, Powerglide 2sp auto trans) and the engine had to be rebuilt
before I could drive that boat. What's this "fondly" crap? G

---
A book burrows into your life in a very profound way
because the experience of reading is not passive.
--Erica Jong
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In article ,
Bruce L. Bergman wrote:

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 20:40:48 -0400, John Husvar
wrote:
In article ,
"Tom Gardner" wrote:


I want my flying car that I was promised in the '60s!


I want to know what happened to all that "Electricity too cheap to
meter," heated roadways, etc, etc. that was supposed to come from
nuclear power plants.

The flying car would be nice too.


No! To be more precise, HELL NO! Not unless and until computers
get good enough to do all the flying and there's no manual control
override option, and that'll be 100 years down the road.

I have to dodge ennough assholes in 2D space and coming from known
angles at relatively reasonable velocities. I don't even want to
THINK about the carnage in the skies if we let just anyone walk in and
get a license for their Flying Car.

Just think about it rationally - the same mix of old farts who
think 35 is plenty fast enough on the freeway, or can't turn their
heads so they just make lane changes blind. The rich who think their
Rolls or Beemer or Benz is a permit to own the road. The Steve
McQueen wannabees who think they're filming the Bullitt chase scene
every day. The well connected who can drive however they want because
they have their way to make all traffic tickets "disappear" at will.
And the immortal teenagers whose brains routinely write checks their
driving skills can't cash.


Now Bruce, think of the darwinian advantages. The first few years would
see some severe weeding, causing general improvement of the gene pool.

But I'd also walk for the first five years.

Joe Gwinn
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Default Speed of Light Broken

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 01:17:27 -0500, cavelamb himself wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

er, OK. Seen one fly, you can buy one. Seems to meet "workable but
spendy" criteria to me. Not my dog, not my fight. You're picking a
throwaway response to a throwaway comment and sorry, I'm not all that
interested in playing.


WHEN and WHERE did you see one fly?


EAA Flyin, Oshkosh Wisconsin, guessing late 70's.

I'm kinda curious because in 40 years of development the thing has never
been off the tether.


You can invest a heap of money in the company - but you can not buy one.
There are none to buy.
No productions at all...


OK, sounds like you are more intensely interested in this than I am.
I see this:
http://www.moller.com/purc.htm

But it doesn't mention a delivery date if I give them my money. So yeah
I'll pass.

I'll let it go, but you lost 10 credibility points on this one, Dave.

And you only had 8...


Oh, do **** off straight away then, will you?

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Default Speed of Light Broken

Gunner wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml

...


And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml


Does this sound a little bit like some folks I know of at
the University of Utah ???? :-)
...lew...


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Default Speed of Light Broken

Lew Hartswick wrote:
Gunner wrote:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/mai...cispeed116.xml


...


And levitation is a piece of cake.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/06/nlevitate106.xml



Does this sound a little bit like some folks I know of at
the University of Utah ???? :-)
...lew...


That was my thought as well, Lew.



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