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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Disassembling a leaded cast iron pumbing joint?
Greetings all
The house I am currently renovating has a plumbing problem that I need to correct. Someone in the past hacked a cast iron pipe off within about 1/2 inch of the hub. The hub is part of a Y-fitting. This is all 3 inch dia. cast iron. I intend to remove the remaining stub of pipe and slip a rubber hub coupling into the hub and use 3 in PVC from the Y-fitting out. How do I go about removing the short stub of pipe sticking out of the hub? Under no circumstance do I want to break the hub on the Y- fitting (this Y-fitting is in the main plumbing stack, in the middle of a series of fittings assembled end to end). I have considered using a shortended saws-all blade and making multiple cuts radially from the inside of the stub outward to the hub, trying to take the stub out in slivers. I expect that I would have to tap/beat on 1/2 inch of the stub sticking out of the hub to break the slivers of the stub pipe free. I also have die grinders at my disposal but I would be limited to using an electric one since I do not have a good air source there - and the cut off wheel would be radial to the hub and not axial. How well will the old lead be bonded to the cast iron? Will I have to grind it out to remove it. I have a MAP gas torch used for plumbing but I would think that the cast iron would be too much of a heat sink to melt the lead. I'm not considering dragging my oxi-acetaline into the crawl space. Other suggestions, using tools that a HSM/fabricator might have? TIA |
#2
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Disassembling a leaded cast iron pumbing joint?
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#3
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Disassembling a leaded cast iron pumbing joint?
Old cast iron pipes can rot, so to speak. I won't get into a horrible
experience I had with rotten cast iron. The point is, be careful with it, although the thickness of the hubs should keep you safe. Just don't be pounding on anything with a 3# sledge. I would try getting the lead out by drilling a bunch of holes in it. IIRC, it's only about an inch deep, with the oakum caulking under it. You could pretty much drill all the lead out faster than making one cut with the sawzall. The problem with the sawzall is finishing the cut down where the stub meets the hub. I like Lloyd's idea of red-hot rod to melt lead. Use to finish off after drilling, if necessary. HTH, Bob |
#4
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Disassembling a leaded cast iron pumbing joint?
On Aug 17, 8:16 am, wrote:
Greetings all The house I am currently renovating has a plumbing problem that I need to correct. Someone in the past hacked a cast iron pipe off within about 1/2 inch of the hub. The hub is part of a Y-fitting. This is all 3 inch dia. cast iron. I intend to remove the remaining stub of pipe and slip a rubber hub coupling into the hub and use 3 in PVC from the Y-fitting out. How do I go about removing the short stub of pipe sticking out of the hub? Under no circumstance do I want to break the hub on the Y- fitting (this Y-fitting is in the main plumbing stack, in the middle of a series of fittings assembled end to end). I have considered using a shortended saws-all blade and making multiple cuts radially from the inside of the stub outward to the hub, trying to take the stub out in slivers. I expect that I would have to tap/beat on 1/2 inch of the stub sticking out of the hub to break the slivers of the stub pipe free. I also have die grinders at my disposal but I would be limited to using an electric one since I do not have a good air source there - and the cut off wheel would be radial to the hub and not axial. How well will the old lead be bonded to the cast iron? Will I have to grind it out to remove it. I have a MAP gas torch used for plumbing but I would think that the cast iron would be too much of a heat sink to melt the lead. I'm not considering dragging my oxi-acetaline into the crawl space. Other suggestions, using tools that a HSM/fabricator might have? TIA Maybe drill a small pilot hole in the lead, screw in the screw from a dent-puller (slide-hammer), and pull out a chunck of the lead/oakum? If you can get the threads to bite into the oakum, you might pull the whole ring out by doing this in a few spots. Dave |
#5
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Disassembling a leaded cast iron pumbing joint?
If you can get the threads to bite into the oakum,
Oakum is Hemp, but don't smoke this batch. |
#6
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Disassembling a leaded cast iron pumbing joint?
I've removed those just by heating and melting the lead out, the oakum will
smoke a bit wrote in message oups.com... Greetings all The house I am currently renovating has a plumbing problem that I need to correct. Someone in the past hacked a cast iron pipe off within about 1/2 inch of the hub. The hub is part of a Y-fitting. This is all 3 inch dia. cast iron. I intend to remove the remaining stub of pipe and slip a rubber hub coupling into the hub and use 3 in PVC from the Y-fitting out. How do I go about removing the short stub of pipe sticking out of the hub? Under no circumstance do I want to break the hub on the Y- fitting (this Y-fitting is in the main plumbing stack, in the middle of a series of fittings assembled end to end). I have considered using a shortended saws-all blade and making multiple cuts radially from the inside of the stub outward to the hub, trying to take the stub out in slivers. I expect that I would have to tap/beat on 1/2 inch of the stub sticking out of the hub to break the slivers of the stub pipe free. I also have die grinders at my disposal but I would be limited to using an electric one since I do not have a good air source there - and the cut off wheel would be radial to the hub and not axial. How well will the old lead be bonded to the cast iron? Will I have to grind it out to remove it. I have a MAP gas torch used for plumbing but I would think that the cast iron would be too much of a heat sink to melt the lead. I'm not considering dragging my oxi-acetaline into the crawl space. Other suggestions, using tools that a HSM/fabricator might have? TIA |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Disassembling a leaded cast iron pumbing joint?
do what jim wilkins said - I have done this a couple of times on my house -
basically cut/pried/melted the lead cap off the oakum packing, then pried/pulled the oakum out, then pull the pipe out - when I reinstalled, I used plumber's epoxy clay like stuff and PVC - so far (20 years) no leaks wrote in message oups.com... Greetings all The house I am currently renovating has a plumbing problem that I need to correct. Someone in the past hacked a cast iron pipe off within about 1/2 inch of the hub. The hub is part of a Y-fitting. This is all 3 inch dia. cast iron. I intend to remove the remaining stub of pipe and slip a rubber hub coupling into the hub and use 3 in PVC from the Y-fitting out. How do I go about removing the short stub of pipe sticking out of the hub? Under no circumstance do I want to break the hub on the Y- fitting (this Y-fitting is in the main plumbing stack, in the middle of a series of fittings assembled end to end). -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#8
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Disassembling a leaded cast iron pumbing joint?
On Aug 17, 6:16 am, wrote:
Greetings all The house I am currently renovating has a plumbing problem that I need to correct. Someone in the past hacked a cast iron pipe off within about 1/2 inch of the hub. The hub is part of a Y-fitting. This is all 3 inch dia. cast iron. I intend to remove the remaining stub of pipe and slip a rubber hub coupling into the hub and use 3 in PVC from the Y-fitting out. How do I go about removing the short stub of pipe sticking out of the hub? Under no circumstance do I want to break the hub on the Y- fitting (this Y-fitting is in the main plumbing stack, in the middle of a series of fittings assembled end to end). I have considered using a shortended saws-all blade and making multiple cuts radially from the inside of the stub outward to the hub, trying to take the stub out in slivers. I expect that I would have to tap/beat on 1/2 inch of the stub sticking out of the hub to break the slivers of the stub pipe free. I also have die grinders at my disposal but I would be limited to using an electric one since I do not have a good air source there - and the cut off wheel would be radial to the hub and not axial. How well will the old lead be bonded to the cast iron? Will I have to grind it out to remove it. I have a MAP gas torch used for plumbing but I would think that the cast iron would be too much of a heat sink to melt the lead. I'm not considering dragging my oxi-acetaline into the crawl space. Other suggestions, using tools that a HSM/fabricator might have? TIA The lead is soft, all you have to do is cut it in a couple of spots and it isn't thick, it's cast over the top of oakum. My granddad had an old Craftsman screwdriver he used for driving through the lead, cut it in a couple of spots and it should peel right out. It's a mechanical joint, after the lead was cast, the plumber used specially shaped caulking chisels to tighten things up by tapping on the top of the cast lead. I've still got all the stuff for doing that. Took the screwdriver back to Sears, though, he'd about pounded the shank through the handle. They gave me a new one. Stan |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Disassembling a leaded cast iron pumbing joint?
wrote in message oups.com... On Aug 17, 6:16 am, wrote: Greetings all The house I am currently renovating has a plumbing problem that I need to correct. Someone in the past hacked a cast iron pipe off within about 1/2 inch of the hub. The hub is part of a Y-fitting. This is all 3 inch dia. cast iron. I intend to remove the remaining stub of pipe and slip a rubber hub coupling into the hub and use 3 in PVC from the Y-fitting out. How do I go about removing the short stub of pipe sticking out of the hub? Under no circumstance do I want to break the hub on the Y- fitting (this Y-fitting is in the main plumbing stack, in the middle of a series of fittings assembled end to end). I have considered using a shortended saws-all blade and making multiple cuts radially from the inside of the stub outward to the hub, trying to take the stub out in slivers. I expect that I would have to tap/beat on 1/2 inch of the stub sticking out of the hub to break the slivers of the stub pipe free. I also have die grinders at my disposal but I would be limited to using an electric one since I do not have a good air source there - and the cut off wheel would be radial to the hub and not axial. How well will the old lead be bonded to the cast iron? Will I have to grind it out to remove it. I have a MAP gas torch used for plumbing but I would think that the cast iron would be too much of a heat sink to melt the lead. I'm not considering dragging my oxi-acetaline into the crawl space. Other suggestions, using tools that a HSM/fabricator might have? TIA The lead is soft, all you have to do is cut it in a couple of spots and it isn't thick, it's cast over the top of oakum. My granddad had an old Craftsman screwdriver he used for driving through the lead, cut it in a couple of spots and it should peel right out. It's a mechanical joint, after the lead was cast, the plumber used specially shaped caulking chisels to tighten things up by tapping on the top of the cast lead. I've still got all the stuff for doing that. Took the screwdriver back to Sears, though, he'd about pounded the shank through the handle. They gave me a new one. Stan Stan, do you also have a 'plumbers torch' or what used to be called a 'pot'. When I was a teenager in the 50's I bought one at Sears so I could melt lead for a few pipe joints I was working on. After that it was for fishing sinkers, soldiers, fun etc. I'm surprised that I have never seen a use 'pot' for sale ever since the early sixties. I attend flea markets and garage sales frequently and have NEVER seen one. Ivan Vegvary |
#10
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Disassembling a leaded cast iron pumbing joint?
On Aug 18, 9:30 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
Stan, do you also have a 'plumbers torch' or what used to be called a 'pot'. When I was a teenager in the 50's I bought one at Sears so I could melt lead for a few pipe joints I was working on. After that it was for fishing sinkers, soldiers, fun etc. I'm surprised that I have never seen a use 'pot' for sale ever since the early sixties. I attend flea markets and garage sales frequently and have NEVER seen one. Ivan Vegvary- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Have a couple I use for melting down scrap lead for bullets and making up alloys. One is gas-fired, like a giant blow torch, the other is propane fired. You don't run across them very often, I got my propane one from a scrapper. The gasoline-fired one came from my granddad. It can also be used for heating up soldering coppers. MSC used to have the propane fired ones, they're now a ground unit with rubber hose instead of the bottle mounted one that I have. Takes a special tank valve. Really, one of the fish/turkey fryer burners puts out at least as much or more heat and is a lot more available. A lot less exciting to start up than that gasoline jobbie, that's definitely not something to start up in the basement although I've seen my granddad do it. All of them are noisy. I've got about a ton of wheelweights to get melted, way too hot the last couple of months. The 'pots' are the iron crucibles, you can run across those at auctions sometimes or a real hardware store might have one on a bottom shelf with the pig lead, oakum and lead wool. Right now I'm using a cast -iron pot with legs on it, my dad called it a Dutch oven. Don't think it is, though, the bottom isn't flat and there's no provision for a lid. Holds about 70 lbs of wheelweights. Think it's just an old pot that was made to be used in the coals on a hearth. One of the burners will melt a load in it in about 10 minutes from cold. For most poured joints, my granddad didn't bother with a pot, just melted the lead in a ladle and poured right from there. Nothing wrong with cast iron drains and lead joints except that the iron doesn't stay in good shape when buried for 100 years and it takes some skill to do the joints so they don't leak. Just about any moron can be taught to swab goop on plastic pipe and stuff it into fittings these days Sometimes they don't leak, too. But that's the reason you don't see much lead-working plumbing tools out there. Stan |
#11
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Disassembling a leaded cast iron pumbing joint?
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 15:30:54 +0000, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
.... I'm surprised that I have never seen a use 'pot' for sale ever since the early sixties. I attend flea markets and garage sales frequently and have NEVER seen one. Probably because those who have them, keep them. :-) Cheers! Rich |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Disassembling a leaded cast iron pumbing joint?
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:05:02 -0700, stans4 wrote:
On Aug 18, 9:30 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote: Stan, do you also have a 'plumbers torch' or what used to be called a 'pot'. When I was a teenager in the 50's I bought one at Sears so I could melt lead for a few pipe joints I was working on. After that it was for fishing sinkers, soldiers, fun etc. I'm surprised that I have never seen a use 'pot' for sale ever since the early sixties. I attend flea markets and garage sales frequently and have NEVER seen one. Ivan Vegvary- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Have a couple I use for melting down scrap lead for bullets and making up alloys. One is gas-fired, like a giant blow torch, the other is propane fired. You don't run across them very often, I got my propane one from a scrapper. The gasoline-fired one came from my granddad. It can also be used for heating up soldering coppers. MSC used to have the propane fired ones, they're now a ground unit with rubber hose instead of the bottle mounted one that I have. Takes a special tank valve. Really, one of the fish/turkey fryer burners puts out at least as much or more heat and is a lot more available. A lot less exciting to start up than that gasoline jobbie, that's definitely not something to start up in the basement although I've seen my granddad do it. All of them are noisy. I've got about a ton of wheelweights to get melted, way too hot the last couple of months. The 'pots' are the iron crucibles, you can run across those at auctions sometimes or a real hardware store might have one on a bottom shelf with the pig lead, oakum and lead wool. Right now I'm using a cast -iron pot with legs on it, my dad called it a Dutch oven. Don't think it is, though, the bottom isn't flat and there's no provision for a lid. Holds about 70 lbs of wheelweights. Think it's just an old pot that was made to be used in the coals on a hearth. One of the burners will melt a load in it in about 10 minutes from cold. For most poured joints, my granddad didn't bother with a pot, just melted the lead in a ladle and poured right from there. Nothing wrong with cast iron drains and lead joints except that the iron doesn't stay in good shape when buried for 100 years and it takes some skill to do the joints so they don't leak. Just about any moron can be taught to swab goop on plastic pipe and stuff it into fittings these days Sometimes they don't leak, too. But that's the reason you don't see much lead-working plumbing tools out there. I remember when you could buy little lead ingots and molds of toy soldiers out of the Sears catalog. ;-) Cheers! Rich |
#13
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Disassembling a leaded cast iron pumbing joint?
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 15:30:54 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote: Stan, do you also have a 'plumbers torch' or what used to be called a 'pot'. When I was a teenager in the 50's I bought one at Sears so I could melt lead for a few pipe joints I was working on. After that it was for fishing sinkers, soldiers, fun etc. I'm surprised that I have never seen a use 'pot' for sale ever since the early sixties. I attend flea markets and garage sales frequently and have NEVER seen one. Ivan Vegvary I bought one new from Pascal's Hardware in Ottawa in 1977 or 1978. I still melt lead over a propane camp stove, a coffee can wind shield speeds things up nicely. Most of my lead comes from old lead covered cables. Gerry :-)} London, Canada |
#14
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Disassembling a leaded cast iron pumbing joint?
wrote in message ups.com... On Aug 18, 9:30 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote: Stan, do you also have a 'plumbers torch' or what used to be called a 'pot'. When I was a teenager in the 50's I bought one at Sears so I could melt lead for a few pipe joints I was working on. After that it was for fishing sinkers, soldiers, fun etc. I'm surprised that I have never seen a use 'pot' for sale ever since the early sixties. I attend flea markets and garage sales frequently and have NEVER seen one. Ivan Vegvary- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Have a couple I use for melting down scrap lead for bullets and making up alloys. One is gas-fired, like a giant blow torch, the other is propane fired. You don't run across them very often, I got my propane one from a scrapper. The gasoline-fired one came from my granddad. It can also be used for heating up soldering coppers. MSC used to have the propane fired ones, they're now a ground unit with rubber hose instead of the bottle mounted one that I have. Takes a special tank valve. Really, one of the fish/turkey fryer burners puts out at least as much or more heat and is a lot more available. A lot less exciting to start up than that gasoline jobbie, that's definitely not something to start up in the basement although I've seen my granddad do it. All of them are noisy. I've got about a ton of wheelweights to get melted, way too hot the last couple of months. The 'pots' are the iron crucibles, you can run across those at auctions sometimes or a real hardware store might have one on a bottom shelf with the pig lead, oakum and lead wool. Right now I'm using a cast -iron pot with legs on it, my dad called it a Dutch oven. Don't think it is, though, the bottom isn't flat and there's no provision for a lid. Holds about 70 lbs of wheelweights. Think it's just an old pot that was made to be used in the coals on a hearth. One of the burners will melt a load in it in about 10 minutes from cold. For most poured joints, my granddad didn't bother with a pot, just melted the lead in a ladle and poured right from there. Nothing wrong with cast iron drains and lead joints except that the iron doesn't stay in good shape when buried for 100 years and it takes some skill to do the joints so they don't leak. Just about any moron can be taught to swab goop on plastic pipe and stuff it into fittings these days Sometimes they don't leak, too. But that's the reason you don't see much lead-working plumbing tools out there. Stan Stan, thanks for your thoughtful and detailed reply. Ivan Vegvary |
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