Greetings all

The house I am currently renovating has a plumbing problem that I need
to correct. Someone in the past hacked a cast iron pipe off within
about 1/2 inch of the hub. The hub is part of a Y-fitting. This is
all 3 inch dia. cast iron. I intend to remove the remaining stub of
pipe and slip a rubber hub coupling into the hub and use 3 in PVC from
the Y-fitting out.

How do I go about removing the short stub of pipe sticking out of the
hub? Under no circumstance do I want to break the hub on the Y-
fitting (this Y-fitting is in the main plumbing stack, in the middle
of a series of fittings assembled end to end).

I have considered using a shortended saws-all blade and making
multiple cuts radially from the inside of the stub outward to the hub,
trying to take the stub out in slivers. I expect that I would have to
tap/beat on 1/2 inch of the stub sticking out of the hub to break the
slivers of the stub pipe free. I also have die grinders at my
disposal but I would be limited to using an electric one since I do
not have a good air source there - and the cut off wheel would be
radial to the hub and not axial. How well will the old lead be bonded
to the cast iron? Will I have to grind it out to remove it. I have a
MAP gas torch used for plumbing but I would think that the cast iron
would be too much of a heat sink to melt the lead. I'm not
considering dragging my oxi-acetaline into the crawl space.

Other suggestions, using tools that a HSM/fabricator might have?

TIA

fired this volley in news:1187353010.771327.257170
@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:

How well will the old lead be bonded
to the cast iron? Will I have to grind it out to remove it. I have a
MAP gas torch used for plumbing but I would think that the cast iron
would be too much of a heat sink to melt the lead. I'm not
considering dragging my oxi-acetaline into the crawl space.

Other suggestions, using tools that a HSM/fabricator might have?

The stub pipe isn't "bonded", but is tightly shrink-fit by the lead
grommet.

Cutting from the inside, punching with a punch or cold chisel from the
outside, crushing, and wiggling are all used to get a leaded joint loose.

Heat may or may not be your friend, depending upon the mechanical abuse
the Y coupling has put up with in the past. It might crack. You
shouldn't apply as much heat as necessary to melt the lead outright, but
you can plunge a red hot rod down through the grommet to give yourself a
weak spot for some looseness and freedom of motion.

Ordinarily, I'd expect some careful wiggling of the stub to loosen the
grommet from the flange, allowing the stub to come out with the leading
still intact on it. If you're afraid to do that, use a sawzall to make
two or three cuts vertically, and remove the piece in three pieces.

You'll still end up having to deform the lead to get it out of the
flange.

(it seems like this would be a great job for a plasma cutter. You could
both melt and blow away the liquid lead in one operation. never tried
it, though)

LLoyd

Old cast iron pipes can rot, so to speak. I won't get into a horrible
experience I had with rotten cast iron. The point is, be careful with
it, although the thickness of the hubs should keep you safe. Just don't
be pounding on anything with a 3# sledge.

I would try getting the lead out by drilling a bunch of holes in it.
IIRC, it's only about an inch deep, with the oakum caulking under it.
You could pretty much drill all the lead out faster than making one cut
with the sawzall. The problem with the sawzall is finishing the cut
down where the stub meets the hub.

I like Lloyd's idea of red-hot rod to melt lead. Use to finish off
after drilling, if necessary.

HTH,
Bob

On Aug 17, 8:16 am, wrote:
Greetings all

The house I am currently renovating has a plumbing problem that I need
to correct. Someone in the past hacked a cast iron pipe off within
about 1/2 inch of the hub. The hub is part of a Y-fitting. This is
all 3 inch dia. cast iron. I intend to remove the remaining stub of
pipe and slip a rubber hub coupling into the hub and use 3 in PVC from
the Y-fitting out.

How do I go about removing the short stub of pipe sticking out of the
hub? Under no circumstance do I want to break the hub on the Y-
fitting (this Y-fitting is in the main plumbing stack, in the middle
of a series of fittings assembled end to end).

I have considered using a shortended saws-all blade and making
multiple cuts radially from the inside of the stub outward to the hub,
trying to take the stub out in slivers. I expect that I would have to
tap/beat on 1/2 inch of the stub sticking out of the hub to break the
slivers of the stub pipe free. I also have die grinders at my
disposal but I would be limited to using an electric one since I do
not have a good air source there - and the cut off wheel would be
radial to the hub and not axial. How well will the old lead be bonded
to the cast iron? Will I have to grind it out to remove it. I have a
MAP gas torch used for plumbing but I would think that the cast iron
would be too much of a heat sink to melt the lead. I'm not
considering dragging my oxi-acetaline into the crawl space.

Other suggestions, using tools that a HSM/fabricator might have?

TIA


Maybe drill a small pilot hole in the lead, screw in the screw from a
dent-puller (slide-hammer), and pull out a chunck of the lead/oakum?

If you can get the threads to bite into the oakum, you might pull the
whole ring out by doing this in a few spots.



Dave

If you can get the threads to bite into the oakum,

Oakum is Hemp, but don't smoke this batch.

I've removed those just by heating and melting the lead out, the oakum will
smoke a bit


wrote in message
oups.com...
Greetings all

The house I am currently renovating has a plumbing problem that I need
to correct. Someone in the past hacked a cast iron pipe off within
about 1/2 inch of the hub. The hub is part of a Y-fitting. This is
all 3 inch dia. cast iron. I intend to remove the remaining stub of
pipe and slip a rubber hub coupling into the hub and use 3 in PVC from
the Y-fitting out.

How do I go about removing the short stub of pipe sticking out of the
hub? Under no circumstance do I want to break the hub on the Y-
fitting (this Y-fitting is in the main plumbing stack, in the middle
of a series of fittings assembled end to end).

I have considered using a shortended saws-all blade and making
multiple cuts radially from the inside of the stub outward to the hub,
trying to take the stub out in slivers. I expect that I would have to
tap/beat on 1/2 inch of the stub sticking out of the hub to break the
slivers of the stub pipe free. I also have die grinders at my
disposal but I would be limited to using an electric one since I do
not have a good air source there - and the cut off wheel would be
radial to the hub and not axial. How well will the old lead be bonded
to the cast iron? Will I have to grind it out to remove it. I have a
MAP gas torch used for plumbing but I would think that the cast iron
would be too much of a heat sink to melt the lead. I'm not
considering dragging my oxi-acetaline into the crawl space.

Other suggestions, using tools that a HSM/fabricator might have?

TIA

do what jim wilkins said - I have done this a couple of times on my house -
basically cut/pried/melted the lead cap off the oakum packing, then
pried/pulled the oakum out, then pull the pipe out - when I reinstalled, I
used plumber's epoxy clay like stuff and PVC - so far (20 years) no leaks


wrote in message
oups.com...
Greetings all

The house I am currently renovating has a plumbing problem that I need
to correct. Someone in the past hacked a cast iron pipe off within
about 1/2 inch of the hub. The hub is part of a Y-fitting. This is
all 3 inch dia. cast iron. I intend to remove the remaining stub of
pipe and slip a rubber hub coupling into the hub and use 3 in PVC from
the Y-fitting out.

How do I go about removing the short stub of pipe sticking out of the
hub? Under no circumstance do I want to break the hub on the Y-
fitting (this Y-fitting is in the main plumbing stack, in the middle
of a series of fittings assembled end to end).




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Aug 17, 6:16 am, wrote:
Greetings all

The house I am currently renovating has a plumbing problem that I need
to correct. Someone in the past hacked a cast iron pipe off within
about 1/2 inch of the hub. The hub is part of a Y-fitting. This is
all 3 inch dia. cast iron. I intend to remove the remaining stub of
pipe and slip a rubber hub coupling into the hub and use 3 in PVC from
the Y-fitting out.

How do I go about removing the short stub of pipe sticking out of the
hub? Under no circumstance do I want to break the hub on the Y-
fitting (this Y-fitting is in the main plumbing stack, in the middle
of a series of fittings assembled end to end).

I have considered using a shortended saws-all blade and making
multiple cuts radially from the inside of the stub outward to the hub,
trying to take the stub out in slivers. I expect that I would have to
tap/beat on 1/2 inch of the stub sticking out of the hub to break the
slivers of the stub pipe free. I also have die grinders at my
disposal but I would be limited to using an electric one since I do
not have a good air source there - and the cut off wheel would be
radial to the hub and not axial. How well will the old lead be bonded
to the cast iron? Will I have to grind it out to remove it. I have a
MAP gas torch used for plumbing but I would think that the cast iron
would be too much of a heat sink to melt the lead. I'm not
considering dragging my oxi-acetaline into the crawl space.

Other suggestions, using tools that a HSM/fabricator might have?

TIA

The lead is soft, all you have to do is cut it in a couple of spots
and it isn't thick, it's cast over the top of oakum. My granddad had
an old Craftsman screwdriver he used for driving through the lead, cut
it in a couple of spots and it should peel right out. It's a
mechanical joint, after the lead was cast, the plumber used specially
shaped caulking chisels to tighten things up by tapping on the top of
the cast lead. I've still got all the stuff for doing that. Took the
screwdriver back to Sears, though, he'd about pounded the shank
through the handle. They gave me a new one.

Stan

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 17, 6:16 am, wrote:
Greetings all

The house I am currently renovating has a plumbing problem that I need
to correct. Someone in the past hacked a cast iron pipe off within
about 1/2 inch of the hub. The hub is part of a Y-fitting. This is
all 3 inch dia. cast iron. I intend to remove the remaining stub of
pipe and slip a rubber hub coupling into the hub and use 3 in PVC from
the Y-fitting out.

How do I go about removing the short stub of pipe sticking out of the
hub? Under no circumstance do I want to break the hub on the Y-
fitting (this Y-fitting is in the main plumbing stack, in the middle
of a series of fittings assembled end to end).

I have considered using a shortended saws-all blade and making
multiple cuts radially from the inside of the stub outward to the hub,
trying to take the stub out in slivers. I expect that I would have to
tap/beat on 1/2 inch of the stub sticking out of the hub to break the
slivers of the stub pipe free. I also have die grinders at my
disposal but I would be limited to using an electric one since I do
not have a good air source there - and the cut off wheel would be
radial to the hub and not axial. How well will the old lead be bonded
to the cast iron? Will I have to grind it out to remove it. I have a
MAP gas torch used for plumbing but I would think that the cast iron
would be too much of a heat sink to melt the lead. I'm not
considering dragging my oxi-acetaline into the crawl space.

Other suggestions, using tools that a HSM/fabricator might have?

TIA

The lead is soft, all you have to do is cut it in a couple of spots
and it isn't thick, it's cast over the top of oakum. My granddad had
an old Craftsman screwdriver he used for driving through the lead, cut
it in a couple of spots and it should peel right out. It's a
mechanical joint, after the lead was cast, the plumber used specially
shaped caulking chisels to tighten things up by tapping on the top of
the cast lead. I've still got all the stuff for doing that. Took the
screwdriver back to Sears, though, he'd about pounded the shank
through the handle. They gave me a new one.

Stan

Stan, do you also have a 'plumbers torch' or what used to be called a 'pot'.
When I was a teenager in the 50's I bought one at Sears so I could melt lead
for a few pipe joints I was working on. After that it was for fishing
sinkers, soldiers, fun etc.

I'm surprised that I have never seen a use 'pot' for sale ever since the
early sixties. I attend flea markets and garage sales frequently and have
NEVER seen one.

Ivan Vegvary

On Aug 18, 9:30 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:

Stan, do you also have a 'plumbers torch' or what used to be called a 'pot'.
When I was a teenager in the 50's I bought one at Sears so I could melt lead
for a few pipe joints I was working on. After that it was for fishing
sinkers, soldiers, fun etc.

I'm surprised that I have never seen a use 'pot' for sale ever since the
early sixties. I attend flea markets and garage sales frequently and have
NEVER seen one.

Ivan Vegvary- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Have a couple I use for melting down scrap lead for bullets and making
up alloys. One is gas-fired, like a giant blow torch, the other is
propane fired. You don't run across them very often, I got my propane
one from a scrapper. The gasoline-fired one came from my granddad.
It can also be used for heating up soldering coppers. MSC used to
have the propane fired ones, they're now a ground unit with rubber
hose instead of the bottle mounted one that I have. Takes a special
tank valve. Really, one of the fish/turkey fryer burners puts out at
least as much or more heat and is a lot more available. A lot less
exciting to start up than that gasoline jobbie, that's definitely not
something to start up in the basement although I've seen my granddad
do it. All of them are noisy. I've got about a ton of wheelweights
to get melted, way too hot the last couple of months.

The 'pots' are the iron crucibles, you can run across those at
auctions sometimes or a real hardware store might have one on a bottom
shelf with the pig lead, oakum and lead wool. Right now I'm using a
cast -iron pot with legs on it, my dad called it a Dutch oven. Don't
think it is, though, the bottom isn't flat and there's no provision
for a lid. Holds about 70 lbs of wheelweights. Think it's just an
old pot that was made to be used in the coals on a hearth. One of the
burners will melt a load in it in about 10 minutes from cold.

For most poured joints, my granddad didn't bother with a pot, just
melted the lead in a ladle and poured right from there. Nothing wrong
with cast iron drains and lead joints except that the iron doesn't
stay in good shape when buried for 100 years and it takes some skill
to do the joints so they don't leak. Just about any moron can be
taught to swab goop on plastic pipe and stuff it into fittings these
days Sometimes they don't leak, too. But that's the reason you don't
see much lead-working plumbing tools out there.

Stan

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 15:30:54 +0000, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
....
I'm surprised that I have never seen a use 'pot' for sale ever since the
early sixties. I attend flea markets and garage sales frequently and
have NEVER seen one.


Probably because those who have them, keep them. :-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 12:05:02 -0700, stans4 wrote:

On Aug 18, 9:30 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:

Stan, do you also have a 'plumbers torch' or what used to be called a 'pot'.
When I was a teenager in the 50's I bought one at Sears so I could melt lead
for a few pipe joints I was working on. After that it was for fishing
sinkers, soldiers, fun etc.

I'm surprised that I have never seen a use 'pot' for sale ever since the
early sixties. I attend flea markets and garage sales frequently and have
NEVER seen one.

Ivan Vegvary- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Have a couple I use for melting down scrap lead for bullets and making
up alloys. One is gas-fired, like a giant blow torch, the other is
propane fired. You don't run across them very often, I got my propane
one from a scrapper. The gasoline-fired one came from my granddad.
It can also be used for heating up soldering coppers. MSC used to
have the propane fired ones, they're now a ground unit with rubber
hose instead of the bottle mounted one that I have. Takes a special
tank valve. Really, one of the fish/turkey fryer burners puts out at
least as much or more heat and is a lot more available. A lot less
exciting to start up than that gasoline jobbie, that's definitely not
something to start up in the basement although I've seen my granddad
do it. All of them are noisy. I've got about a ton of wheelweights
to get melted, way too hot the last couple of months.

The 'pots' are the iron crucibles, you can run across those at
auctions sometimes or a real hardware store might have one on a bottom
shelf with the pig lead, oakum and lead wool. Right now I'm using a
cast -iron pot with legs on it, my dad called it a Dutch oven. Don't
think it is, though, the bottom isn't flat and there's no provision
for a lid. Holds about 70 lbs of wheelweights. Think it's just an
old pot that was made to be used in the coals on a hearth. One of the
burners will melt a load in it in about 10 minutes from cold.

For most poured joints, my granddad didn't bother with a pot, just
melted the lead in a ladle and poured right from there. Nothing wrong
with cast iron drains and lead joints except that the iron doesn't
stay in good shape when buried for 100 years and it takes some skill
to do the joints so they don't leak. Just about any moron can be
taught to swab goop on plastic pipe and stuff it into fittings these
days Sometimes they don't leak, too. But that's the reason you don't
see much lead-working plumbing tools out there.


I remember when you could buy little lead ingots and molds of toy
soldiers out of the Sears catalog. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 15:30:54 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:


Stan, do you also have a 'plumbers torch' or what used to be called a 'pot'.
When I was a teenager in the 50's I bought one at Sears so I could melt lead
for a few pipe joints I was working on. After that it was for fishing
sinkers, soldiers, fun etc.

I'm surprised that I have never seen a use 'pot' for sale ever since the
early sixties. I attend flea markets and garage sales frequently and have
NEVER seen one.

Ivan Vegvary

I bought one new from Pascal's Hardware in Ottawa in 1977 or 1978. I
still melt lead over a propane camp stove, a coffee can wind shield
speeds things up nicely. Most of my lead comes from old lead covered
cables.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 18, 9:30 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:

Stan, do you also have a 'plumbers torch' or what used to be called a
'pot'.
When I was a teenager in the 50's I bought one at Sears so I could melt
lead
for a few pipe joints I was working on. After that it was for fishing
sinkers, soldiers, fun etc.

I'm surprised that I have never seen a use 'pot' for sale ever since the
early sixties. I attend flea markets and garage sales frequently and
have
NEVER seen one.

Ivan Vegvary- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Have a couple I use for melting down scrap lead for bullets and making
up alloys. One is gas-fired, like a giant blow torch, the other is
propane fired. You don't run across them very often, I got my propane
one from a scrapper. The gasoline-fired one came from my granddad.
It can also be used for heating up soldering coppers. MSC used to
have the propane fired ones, they're now a ground unit with rubber
hose instead of the bottle mounted one that I have. Takes a special
tank valve. Really, one of the fish/turkey fryer burners puts out at
least as much or more heat and is a lot more available. A lot less
exciting to start up than that gasoline jobbie, that's definitely not
something to start up in the basement although I've seen my granddad
do it. All of them are noisy. I've got about a ton of wheelweights
to get melted, way too hot the last couple of months.

The 'pots' are the iron crucibles, you can run across those at
auctions sometimes or a real hardware store might have one on a bottom
shelf with the pig lead, oakum and lead wool. Right now I'm using a
cast -iron pot with legs on it, my dad called it a Dutch oven. Don't
think it is, though, the bottom isn't flat and there's no provision
for a lid. Holds about 70 lbs of wheelweights. Think it's just an
old pot that was made to be used in the coals on a hearth. One of the
burners will melt a load in it in about 10 minutes from cold.

For most poured joints, my granddad didn't bother with a pot, just
melted the lead in a ladle and poured right from there. Nothing wrong
with cast iron drains and lead joints except that the iron doesn't
stay in good shape when buried for 100 years and it takes some skill
to do the joints so they don't leak. Just about any moron can be
taught to swab goop on plastic pipe and stuff it into fittings these
days Sometimes they don't leak, too. But that's the reason you don't
see much lead-working plumbing tools out there.

Stan

Stan, thanks for your thoughtful and detailed reply.

Ivan Vegvary