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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
I could use the assistance of anybody familiar with milling machine
spindle bearings, in particular anybody familiar with the lower "Timken" bearings on an older Burke Millrite spindle. I've never serviced the lower spindle bearings and today, after running the mill for about 15 minutes at the highest possible spindle speed, (which I've never done before), I noticed that the bottom of the quill had become too hot to touch. After letting it cool down I reset the drive belt to run at a lower speed but noticed the quill was still warming up although not as bad. Maybe it's been doing this for a while and I just hadn't noticed. At this point it seemed a good idea to check the lower bearings for sufficient lube and proper axial preload as, in the service manual, these are the listed causes of this end of the spindle running hot (other than shot bearings altogether). Per the manual, if you drop the quill all the way down it exposes a threaded plug in the side of the quill that can be removed with a 5/16" hex key to lubricate or adjust preload on the lower spindle bearings. However the quill plug on my mill has a curious arrangment occupying the 5/16" hex socket in the plug which precludes being able to engage the plug with a hex key. It appears to be something in the way of a "half Alemite" fitting that somebody made up and inserted to facilitate oiling the lower bearings without removing the plug. At least this is what the guy at DC Morrison (they handle Burke Millrite machines) postulated when I described it over the phone. Even if this is what it is, efforts to pass oil through the fitting in the plug did not appear to be very effective, most/all of the oil coming out of the spout just dripped down the outside of the quill . Before I attack this setup with a drill and an easy out, so that I can remove the plug and properly lube/adjust the bearings, I thought I'd post a couple of pictures to the drop box for scrutiny by those more knowlegeable than I, to confirm that this arrangement is not stock/proper and that I'm not going to mess any thing up by removing this " modified oil port" in the hex socket of the plug. The jpgs of the quill plug are at: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ill_Plug_1.JPG http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ill_Plug_2.JPG If you know anything about it, I really appreciate anybody who takes the time to look at the jpgs and let me know whether this plug ought to stay this way or if I ought to remove the "oil port" by what ever means and restore the plug to original in order to service the bearings. In particular if there's anybody who has a Burke Millrite that could maybe check the quill plug on their mill and compare it to the posted jpgs to establish whether it's the same or different than my quill plug, that would be great. Thanks, Dennis van Dam |
#2
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
My Millrite has the same fitting. There is maybe 0.1" depth of hex
available to grip with a wrench on mine; depending how tight the screw is, it might be removable. But you've probably tried that already. I'm afraid I can't help on your other questions, don't know anything about this fitting. Steve Smith Dennis van Dam wrote: I could use the assistance of anybody familiar with milling machine spindle bearings, in particular anybody familiar with the lower "Timken" bearings on an older Burke Millrite spindle. I've never serviced the lower spindle bearings and today, after running the mill for about 15 minutes at the highest possible spindle speed, (which I've never done before), I noticed that the bottom of the quill had become too hot to touch. After letting it cool down I reset the drive belt to run at a lower speed but noticed the quill was still warming up although not as bad. Maybe it's been doing this for a while and I just hadn't noticed. At this point it seemed a good idea to check the lower bearings for sufficient lube and proper axial preload as, in the service manual, these are the listed causes of this end of the spindle running hot (other than shot bearings altogether). Per the manual, if you drop the quill all the way down it exposes a threaded plug in the side of the quill that can be removed with a 5/16" hex key to lubricate or adjust preload on the lower spindle bearings. However the quill plug on my mill has a curious arrangment occupying the 5/16" hex socket in the plug which precludes being able to engage the plug with a hex key. It appears to be something in the way of a "half Alemite" fitting that somebody made up and inserted to facilitate oiling the lower bearings without removing the plug. At least this is what the guy at DC Morrison (they handle Burke Millrite machines) postulated when I described it over the phone. Even if this is what it is, efforts to pass oil through the fitting in the plug did not appear to be very effective, most/all of the oil coming out of the spout just dripped down the outside of the quill . Before I attack this setup with a drill and an easy out, so that I can remove the plug and properly lube/adjust the bearings, I thought I'd post a couple of pictures to the drop box for scrutiny by those more knowlegeable than I, to confirm that this arrangement is not stock/proper and that I'm not going to mess any thing up by removing this " modified oil port" in the hex socket of the plug. The jpgs of the quill plug are at: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ill_Plug_1.JPG http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ill_Plug_2.JPG If you know anything about it, I really appreciate anybody who takes the time to look at the jpgs and let me know whether this plug ought to stay this way or if I ought to remove the "oil port" by what ever means and restore the plug to original in order to service the bearings. In particular if there's anybody who has a Burke Millrite that could maybe check the quill plug on their mill and compare it to the posted jpgs to establish whether it's the same or different than my quill plug, that would be great. Thanks, Dennis van Dam |
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
Steve,
Thanks for the reply. That you have the same arrangement tends to indicate that this is not a one off but something the factory introduced and then didn't cover with an update to the service manual. On mine the depth of the hex key socket is much less than 0.1", maybe only 0.030" to 0.040" . I tried pressing the hex key into this shallow recess and carefully turning but the key just smears the recess and climbs out. Not only is it unclear how to get the plug out as configured, how the hell did they get it in? Thanks again for the reply. Dennis van Dam PS You ever notice the bottom of the quill warming up? Maybe I'm worried for nothing and this was just a one time thing because I ran the spindle at 3400 rpm when usually I'm only running it at 250 to 725. (Still, I ought to be able to run the machine at 3400 rpm without overheating the spindle bearings.) In article , Steve Smith wrote: My Millrite has the same fitting. There is maybe 0.1" depth of hex available to grip with a wrench on mine; depending how tight the screw is, it might be removable. But you've probably tried that already. I'm afraid I can't help on your other questions, don't know anything about this fitting. Steve Smith Dennis van Dam wrote: I could use the assistance of anybody familiar with milling machine spindle bearings, in particular anybody familiar with the lower "Timken" bearings on an older Burke Millrite spindle. I've never serviced the lower spindle bearings and today, after running the mill for about 15 minutes at the highest possible spindle speed, (which I've never done before), I noticed that the bottom of the quill had become too hot to touch. After letting it cool down I reset the drive belt to run at a lower speed but noticed the quill was still warming up although not as bad. Maybe it's been doing this for a while and I just hadn't noticed. At this point it seemed a good idea to check the lower bearings for sufficient lube and proper axial preload as, in the service manual, these are the listed causes of this end of the spindle running hot (other than shot bearings altogether). Per the manual, if you drop the quill all the way down it exposes a threaded plug in the side of the quill that can be removed with a 5/16" hex key to lubricate or adjust preload on the lower spindle bearings. However the quill plug on my mill has a curious arrangment occupying the 5/16" hex socket in the plug which precludes being able to engage the plug with a hex key. It appears to be something in the way of a "half Alemite" fitting that somebody made up and inserted to facilitate oiling the lower bearings without removing the plug. At least this is what the guy at DC Morrison (they handle Burke Millrite machines) postulated when I described it over the phone. Even if this is what it is, efforts to pass oil through the fitting in the plug did not appear to be very effective, most/all of the oil coming out of the spout just dripped down the outside of the quill . Before I attack this setup with a drill and an easy out, so that I can remove the plug and properly lube/adjust the bearings, I thought I'd post a couple of pictures to the drop box for scrutiny by those more knowlegeable than I, to confirm that this arrangement is not stock/proper and that I'm not going to mess any thing up by removing this " modified oil port" in the hex socket of the plug. The jpgs of the quill plug are at: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ill_Plug_1.JPG http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ill_Plug_2.JPG If you know anything about it, I really appreciate anybody who takes the time to look at the jpgs and let me know whether this plug ought to stay this way or if I ought to remove the "oil port" by what ever means and restore the plug to original in order to service the bearings. In particular if there's anybody who has a Burke Millrite that could maybe check the quill plug on their mill and compare it to the posted jpgs to establish whether it's the same or different than my quill plug, that would be great. Thanks, Dennis van Dam |
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
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#6
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
In article , Ned Simmons
wrote: In article dvandam-2107040942070001@sdn-ap- 006tnnashp0217.dialsprint.net, says... Steve, Thanks for the reply. That you have the same arrangement tends to indicate that this is not a one off but something the factory introduced and then didn't cover with an update to the service manual. On mine the depth of the hex key socket is much less than 0.1", maybe only 0.030" to 0.040" . I tried pressing the hex key into this shallow recess and carefully turning but the key just smears the recess and climbs out. Not only is it unclear how to get the plug out as configured, how the hell did they get it in? Thanks again for the reply. Dennis van Dam PS You ever notice the bottom of the quill warming up? Maybe I'm worried for nothing and this was just a one time thing because I ran the spindle at 3400 rpm when usually I'm only running it at 250 to 725. (Still, I ought to be able to run the machine at 3400 rpm without overheating the spindle bearings.) Look at McMaster-Carr p/n 10595K14. Does that look like what you've got? If so, and the fitting is still OK, you'll need something like p/n 1090K54. Ned, That's basically what it is only instead of being Style 3 your part number indicates it would be more like style 1 or style 2 which are round at the OD instead of hex shaped. Only thing that still confused me is in the catalogue on the style 1 and style 2 type flush grease fittings, there are "dimples" on the fitting perimeter so that it can be engaged with a flat screw driver to install it into a threaded hole . These dimples are not in evidence on my fitting. Without some way to thread the fitting into a tapped hole in the bottom of the hex socket in the plug I couldn't figure how the fitting was installed into the plug and further with the fitting entirely occupying the the hex socket in the plug I couldn't figure how the plug was installed into the quill. I could just leave the whole arrangement as is and, as you suggest, get a special narrow coupler to get lube through the fitting to the spindle bearings but that won't address removing the plug in the event that I need to adjust the preload on the spindle bearings. Accordingly I finally decided to drill the fitting out so that I could get a hex key in and remove the plug. This took place without any complication and only took a few moments. Once I had it out I examined the back side of the plug and the remains of the flush grease fitting and discovered the fitting wasn't threaded into a tapped hole it was pressed into a plain hole. That explains the lack of screw driver dimples on the fitting..............and possibly all that might have been required was with the plug still in the quill, give the face of the fitting a light rap with a hammer and punch thus (if there was space behind it) setting it further into the hex socket in the plug allowing a hex key to fit into the socket. Either that or a predrilled plug was threaded into the quill and then the flush grease fitting was set all the way in to the predrilled hole in the plug but since the plug is already installed it doesn't matter that you can no longer get a hex key in (thus a one way trip unless you drill the fitting out). Oh well live and learn, this is why I hesitated and posted to the group as I frequently miss salient details like this one until after the fact. (-8 Do you have any way of measuring how hot does the spindle actually gets? Actually I do. After I sorted out the business with the plug and got some oil to the bearings (the manual describes obscure type of grease but my guy at DC Morrison says "straight 30 weight oil") I attached a nice little magnetic surface temp thermometer to the quill and turned it on at full spindle speed (3400 rpm). Within 30 seconds I could feel the quill starting to warm. Within 2 minutes it was acutely warm and at between 4 or 5 minutes the thermometer was indicating and stable at 130 degrees. The way this thermometer works it measures temp just above the surface it's attached to. That means the quill is actually hotter and the bearings hotter still. If 200 degrees is within allowable operating parameters maybe this is perfectly normal (normal enough) and I just have to get used to it when ever running at full spindle rpm. Other wise the next thing to fiddle with is bearing preload or possibly consider replacing the bearings. Ned, thanks for the reply it helped to explain what was going on right at the quill plug. Dennis van Dam Even 200F isn't likely to harm anything unless the bearing preload changes drastically due to thermal expansion. If it's getting tighter I'd expect the temp to run away (hotter-tighter-hotter still- even tighter-....), if too loose, accuracy and/or finish may suffer. Ned Simmons |
#7
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
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#8
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
In article ,
Dennis van Dam wrote: In article , Ned Simmons wrote: [ ... ] Look at McMaster-Carr p/n 10595K14. Does that look like what you've got? If so, and the fitting is still OK, you'll need something like p/n 1090K54. [ ... ] That's basically what it is only instead of being Style 3 your part number indicates it would be more like style 1 or style 2 which are round at the OD instead of hex shaped. [ ... ] I could just leave the whole arrangement as is and, as you suggest, get a special narrow coupler to get lube through the fitting to the spindle bearings but that won't address removing the plug in the event that I need to adjust the preload on the spindle bearings. Accordingly I finally decided to drill the fitting out so that I could get a hex key in and remove the plug. Hmm ... one thing which I just thought of -- too late, I know -- was to take an appropriate sized hex key, cut off the bent end, and put it in the lathe to bore out everything up to a diameter corresponding to the dimension across the flats. This would give you something which could slide in the little corners between the cylindrical body and the hex screw socket. Not good for much torque, but probably enough to unscrew the device, as the cylindrical part would give some support to the fingers from collapsing. [ ... ] Either that or a predrilled plug was threaded into the quill and then the flush grease fitting was set all the way in to the predrilled hole in the plug but since the plug is already installed it doesn't matter that you can no longer get a hex key in (thus a one way trip unless you drill the fitting out). Unless the modified hex key would work. Good Luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#10
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
In article ,
wrote: On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 22:50:35 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote: In article dvandam-2207040953520001@sdn-ap- 010tnnashp0277.dialsprint.net, says... In article , Ned Simmons wrote: Do you have any way of measuring how hot does the spindle actually gets? Actually I do. After I sorted out the business with the plug and got some oil to the bearings (the manual describes obscure type of grease but my guy at DC Morrison says "straight 30 weight oil") I attached a nice little magnetic surface temp thermometer to the quill and turned it on at full spindle speed (3400 rpm). Within 30 seconds I could feel the quill starting to warm. Within 2 minutes it was acutely warm and at between 4 or 5 minutes the thermometer was indicating and stable at 130 degrees. The way this thermometer works it measures temp just above the surface it's attached to. That means the quill is actually hotter and the bearings hotter still. If 200 degrees is within allowable operating parameters maybe this is perfectly normal (normal enough) and I just have to get used to it when ever running at full spindle rpm. Other wise the next thing to fiddle with is bearing preload or possibly consider replacing the bearings. First Ned and then Gunner advised; Keep it oiled and I think it'll be fine. The limiting factor will be lubrication, and just about any grease or oil will operate at 200-250F. If there's old grease in the spindle that may be part of the reason it gets as hot as it does. If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised to see it improve as you continue to run oil thru it. Even SAE30 is pretty heavy at 3400 RPM - the oil for a Bridgeport spindle is approx SAE10, for example. Ned Simmons Indeed. Scounge up a gallon of DTE Light, and run it in as much as it will take for the next 4-5 times you use it. It will help flush out the mange and is a good high speed spindle oil in its own right. Gunner Now that you fellows mention it, while I was running my quill temperature test after having given the bearings a healthy dose of oil (SouthBend Light Medium Saybolt Universal Viscosity 150-240 seconds is what I actually had on hand) large clods of old grease, more the consistancy of sludge, started seeping out the bottom of the quill. It stopped after several minutes running at high rpm after the quill temp stabilized at 130 degrees, so I assume I cleared most of the old lube. Per Gunner I'll continue to flush to see what further comes out. I don't anticipate running at 3400 rpm very often, in fact after getting the spindle oiled I completed the (non-critical) job I started at 3400rpm at 725rpm and the mill bit cut-finished the material just fine. McMaster-Carr shows a gallon of Mobil machine/turbine DTE light for $11.98 which sounds reasonable to me. The next item down is Mobil spindle bearing oil. I assume either in a comparable viscosity will serve? If I can't find one or the other here in town I'll phone in an order. Thanks to you both for the help, Dennis van Dam |
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
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#12
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
In article dvandam-2307041238330001@sdn-ap-
010tnnashp0352.dialsprint.net, says... McMaster-Carr shows a gallon of Mobil machine/turbine DTE light for $11.98 which sounds reasonable to me. The next item down is Mobil spindle bearing oil. I assume either in a comparable viscosity will serve? If I can't find one or the other here in town I'll phone in an order. Since SAE30 was recommended the spindle oil (ISO 22) may be on the light side. SAE30 is approximately ISO 68 or 100, which seems rather heavy to me. The DTE Light (ISO 32) sounds like a good compromise. A comparable viscosity quality hydraulic oil would also be OK and perhaps easier to find locally in gallons. Here's a good viscosity conversion chart. http://www.irvingoilco.com/lubricants/viscosity.htm Ned Simmons |
#13
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 23:07:27 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote: In article dvandam-2307041238330001@sdn-ap- 010tnnashp0352.dialsprint.net, says... McMaster-Carr shows a gallon of Mobil machine/turbine DTE light for $11.98 which sounds reasonable to me. The next item down is Mobil spindle bearing oil. I assume either in a comparable viscosity will serve? If I can't find one or the other here in town I'll phone in an order. Since SAE30 was recommended the spindle oil (ISO 22) may be on the light side. SAE30 is approximately ISO 68 or 100, which seems rather heavy to me. The DTE Light (ISO 32) sounds like a good compromise. A comparable viscosity quality hydraulic oil would also be OK and perhaps easier to find locally in gallons. Here's a good viscosity conversion chart. http://www.irvingoilco.com/lubricants/viscosity.htm Ned Simmons Indeed. I just happen to like DTE Light for its various properties and the fact its very commonly used in high speed collet closers, very high speed air spindles and whatnot. Shrug..Im sure there are others that are very good. Gunner That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there. - George Orwell |
#14
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
My access plug is just a plain allen screw.
A guy at d.c. morrison told me the same thing - they just throw in some straight 30 weight before using it. I use light spindle oil. What I want to know is: what grease corresponds to the description given in the manual? I forget the exact wording, but it involves 'sponge' and 'soap base', and goes on to say it's not all that important. But it *does* emphasize not to use too little or too much. Well, yeah, that's always good advice. And useless, too. The drawback to the spindle oil is that it ends up running out onto the work. Since I frequently mill wood, that can be an issue. Hence my interest in quantifying 'not too little, and not too much, but just the right amount'. I'm a great believer in empiricism, but not in this instance. (Dennis van Dam) wrote in message ... In article , (Donald Nichols) wrote: In article , Dennis van Dam wrote: In article , Ned Simmons wrote: [ ... ] Look at McMaster-Carr p/n 10595K14. Does that look like what you've got? If so, and the fitting is still OK, you'll need something like p/n 1090K54. [ ... ] That's basically what it is only instead of being Style 3 your part number indicates it would be more like style 1 or style 2 which are round at the OD instead of hex shaped. [ ... ] I could just leave the whole arrangement as is and, as you suggest, get a special narrow coupler to get lube through the fitting to the spindle bearings but that won't address removing the plug in the event that I need to adjust the preload on the spindle bearings. Accordingly I finally decided to drill the fitting out so that I could get a hex key in and remove the plug. Hmm ... one thing which I just thought of -- too late, I know -- was to take an appropriate sized hex key, cut off the bent end, and put it in the lathe to bore out everything up to a diameter corresponding to the dimension across the flats. This would give you something which could slide in the little corners between the cylindrical body and the hex screw socket. Not good for much torque, but probably enough to unscrew the device, as the cylindrical part would give some support to the fingers from collapsing. [ ... ] Either that or a predrilled plug was threaded into the quill and then the flush grease fitting was set all the way in to the predrilled hole in the plug but since the plug is already installed it doesn't matter that you can no longer get a hex key in (thus a one way trip unless you drill the fitting out). Unless the modified hex key would work. Good Luck, DoN. Don, While the hex key configuration you describe did not occur to me, I did realize there where tiny voids between the flush grease fitting OD and the "points" of the hex socket. I briefly considered that there might be some scant purchase to be obtained here but dismissed it fairly quickly as being too tight a space to practically engage. After I read your post I produced the geometry you describe in a quick CAD sketch on the computer, just a .3125" circle arranged concentric to a hexagon .3125" across the flats. On a vector from any hex point oriented to the center of the hex-circle it measures .026" from the hex point to the fitting OD........If I end drilled the hex key sement very carefully and kept the depth of drilling fairly short, say 1/16 to 1/8...........that *might* have worked. Even if the drilling operation wasn't perfectly concentric to the hex key segment and I only came away with 4 or 5 instead of all 6 "hex point fingers", that might have been enough of a toe hold on the plug to get it out. On the other hand if who ever had just taken the time to configure the plug-grease fitting arrangement such that there would be sufficient hex socket depth left in the plug above the fitting, I wouldn't yet again be reminded that Necessity is a real Mother. (-8 Thanks for the reply, Dennis van Dam |
#16
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
In article , Ned Simmons
wrote: In article dvandam-2307041238330001@sdn-ap- 010tnnashp0352.dialsprint.net, says... McMaster-Carr shows a gallon of Mobil machine/turbine DTE light for $11.98 which sounds reasonable to me. The next item down is Mobil spindle bearing oil. I assume either in a comparable viscosity will serve? If I can't find one or the other here in town I'll phone in an order. Since SAE30 was recommended the spindle oil (ISO 22) may be on the light side. SAE30 is approximately ISO 68 or 100, which seems rather heavy to me. The DTE Light (ISO 32) sounds like a good compromise. A comparable viscosity quality hydraulic oil would also be OK and perhaps easier to find locally in gallons. Here's a good viscosity conversion chart. http://www.irvingoilco.com/lubricants/viscosity.htm Ned Simmons Ned, Thanks for the link, that really helped to equate the different viscosity designators in McMaster-Carr from one lube to the next. I see what you mean regarding the spindle oil being on the thin side even in its most viscous form (ISO 22) compared to the range of viscosities the DTE oil comes in. Thanks again for the help. Dennis van Dam |
#17
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 22:30:47 GMT, (Dennis van
Dam) wrote: In article , Ned Simmons wrote: In article dvandam-2307041238330001@sdn-ap- 010tnnashp0352.dialsprint.net, says... McMaster-Carr shows a gallon of Mobil machine/turbine DTE light for $11.98 which sounds reasonable to me. The next item down is Mobil spindle bearing oil. I assume either in a comparable viscosity will serve? If I can't find one or the other here in town I'll phone in an order. Since SAE30 was recommended the spindle oil (ISO 22) may be on the light side. SAE30 is approximately ISO 68 or 100, which seems rather heavy to me. The DTE Light (ISO 32) sounds like a good compromise. A comparable viscosity quality hydraulic oil would also be OK and perhaps easier to find locally in gallons. Here's a good viscosity conversion chart. http://www.irvingoilco.com/lubricants/viscosity.htm Ned Simmons Ned, Thanks for the link, that really helped to equate the different viscosity designators in McMaster-Carr from one lube to the next. I see what you mean regarding the spindle oil being on the thin side even in its most viscous form (ISO 22) compared to the range of viscosities the DTE oil comes in. Thanks again for the help. Dennis van Dam http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...med_Series.asp Gunner "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke |
#18
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
In article ,
(rohamm) wrote: My access plug is just a plain allen screw. That's how DC Morrison Man says a Millrite ships out. Either the arrangement Steve Smith and I have on our quills is a common after market mod or there was a period when the factory *did* make quill plugs that way but then stopped (possibly because somebody realized what a pain it was to get back into the quill with this type of plug). What is curious is that while the manual doesn't refer to a flush grease fitting in the quill plug in any text, the cross section diagram of the quill on page 14 appears to show a cross section of the fitting inside the plug. Additionally it shows it set into the plug deep enough to leave room for an allen key. Moot point now. I replaced my fittinged plug with a plain plug like yours. 27 cents at my local industrial supply. A guy at d.c. morrison told me the same thing - they just throw in some straight 30 weight before using it. I use light spindle oil. What I want to know is: what grease corresponds to the description given in the manual? I forget the exact wording, but it involves 'sponge' and 'soap base', and goes on to say it's not all that important. Per the manual; "Sohio Sactram No. 2 or equivalent" otherwise described as "a shot fibre, medium sponge grease with sodium soap base". I happened across a brief technical blurb "About Grease" in the McMaster-Carr catalogue at the begining of the listings for grease products. It sheds a bit of light on what is meant by this but I had the same reaction as you, what-n-a-hell is "a shot fibre, medium sponge grease with sodium soap base" and where do I find it. But it *does* emphasize not to use too little or too much. Well, yeah, that's always good advice. And useless, too. The drawback to the spindle oil is that it ends up running out onto the work. Since I frequently mill wood, that can be an issue. Hence my interest in quantifying 'not too little, and not too much, but just the right amount'. I'm a great believer in empiricism, but not in this instance. Again I came away with the same impression as you. The manual states twice in two paragraphs, the second instance in caps, how important it is not to overfill the quill and then pointedly does not indicate what the correct amount is or at least what a subjective indicator would be in advance of the spindle bearings over heating. If it's that critical, they ought to put a dipstick on the quill. (-8 I could be wrong but I'm inclined to think that over filling with oil wouldn't be as likely to over heat the bearings as over filling with grease. But then tending to over fill to be sure there's enough doesn't help with dripping on the woodwork. I recently discovered how useful the MIllrite is for precision routing wood. On sections of wood smaller than the mill table travel distances, it beats hell out of hand holding a router against a clamped straight edge that needs to be reset for every cut. The only aggravation is keeping the wood chips/saw dust off of the ways and out of the works. I've been told the resins in wood chips/dust don't do the machined bearing surfaces of the mill any good. Near term project for the Millrite is way covers and/or way wipers. Dennis van Dam (Dennis van Dam) wrote in message ... In article , (Donald Nichols) wrote: In article , Dennis van Dam wrote: In article , Ned Simmons wrote: [ ... ] Look at McMaster-Carr p/n 10595K14. Does that look like what you've got? If so, and the fitting is still OK, you'll need something like p/n 1090K54. [ ... ] That's basically what it is only instead of being Style 3 your part number indicates it would be more like style 1 or style 2 which are round at the OD instead of hex shaped. [ ... ] I could just leave the whole arrangement as is and, as you suggest, get a special narrow coupler to get lube through the fitting to the spindle bearings but that won't address removing the plug in the event that I need to adjust the preload on the spindle bearings. Accordingly I finally decided to drill the fitting out so that I could get a hex key in and remove the plug. Hmm ... one thing which I just thought of -- too late, I know -- was to take an appropriate sized hex key, cut off the bent end, and put it in the lathe to bore out everything up to a diameter corresponding to the dimension across the flats. This would give you something which could slide in the little corners between the cylindrical body and the hex screw socket. Not good for much torque, but probably enough to unscrew the device, as the cylindrical part would give some support to the fingers from collapsing. [ ... ] Either that or a predrilled plug was threaded into the quill and then the flush grease fitting was set all the way in to the predrilled hole in the plug but since the plug is already installed it doesn't matter that you can no longer get a hex key in (thus a one way trip unless you drill the fitting out). Unless the modified hex key would work. Good Luck, DoN. Don, While the hex key configuration you describe did not occur to me, I did realize there where tiny voids between the flush grease fitting OD and the "points" of the hex socket. I briefly considered that there might be some scant purchase to be obtained here but dismissed it fairly quickly as being too tight a space to practically engage. After I read your post I produced the geometry you describe in a quick CAD sketch on the computer, just a .3125" circle arranged concentric to a hexagon .3125" across the flats. On a vector from any hex point oriented to the center of the hex-circle it measures .026" from the hex point to the fitting OD........If I end drilled the hex key sement very carefully and kept the depth of drilling fairly short, say 1/16 to 1/8...........that *might* have worked. Even if the drilling operation wasn't perfectly concentric to the hex key segment and I only came away with 4 or 5 instead of all 6 "hex point fingers", that might have been enough of a toe hold on the plug to get it out. On the other hand if who ever had just taken the time to configure the plug-grease fitting arrangement such that there would be sufficient hex socket depth left in the plug above the fitting, I wouldn't yet again be reminded that Necessity is a real Mother. (-8 Thanks for the reply, Dennis van Dam |
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
In article ,
wrote: On 24 Jul 2004 06:41:43 -0700, (rohamm) wrote: The drawback to the spindle oil is that it ends up running out onto the work. Since I frequently mill wood, that can be an issue. Hence my interest in quantifying 'not too little, and not too much, but just the right amount'. Nearly all such spindles are direct loss lubrication..ie the bearings are not sealed to retain oil and leak out down the quill etc. Or sealed poorly due to age etc. This really is indeed an issue when milling woods and paper based materials. Ive seen some home made slingers that clamp around the quill that folks have put together for this, but the only really good solution is finding another type of mill, use a router head, or run it for a bit before putting any wood down and hope that one forlorn droplet doesnt finally wend its way down and around and jump off on that piece of work. Ive been seeing some high speed 30 taper spindles on Ebay recently, that perhaps you could make up a sub spindle that will clamp to your ram or head for wood work. Ive got a shop I service, that has a number of old Bridgeports that have a simple die grinder type unit mounted on the end of the quill with a simple pinch clamp made from aluminum plate. They use them for fine work in phenolics and such. Easy to install, easy to remove, and allows them to use the table and down feed as normal. A dremel tool could be so adapted as well. This allows them to get 10,000-30,000 rpm oil free, and still allows them to use the regular motor/spindle when they need to. They make the clamp from 1" aluminum plate, so they only loose 1" of spindle down travel as the clamp goes on the first 1" of the quill. Just a heads up. Gunner Food for thought. I just finished milling several smaller plywood boxes with each plywood panel end mortised into the ajoining plywood panel. It's amazing how tight you can fit up wood joinery when you gauge lengths off to the nearest thou. Using the mill for routing operations on smaller wood working projects is something I'll be doing more of in the future and you've got me looking at how best to mount my die grinder up to the quill/head of the Millrite. Dennis van Dam |
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
In article ,
(rohamm) wrote: (Dennis van Dam) wrote in message It's amazing how tight you can fit up wood joinery when you gauge lengths off to the nearest thou. Isn't it though? Using the mill for routing operations on smaller wood working projects is something I'll be doing more of in the future and you've got me looking at how best to mount my die grinder up to the quill/head of the Millrite. Dennis van Dam We have a two century-old home in New England, and I save all the old material when we make any changes to it. The sub-flooring is called hard red pine, and now it's petrified, but man, it's beautiful. Now this is the stuff that was too hard - lots of knots - to plane smooth back then, but it's no match for a fly cutter on a vertical mill. With a name like "hard red pine" I'll bet it finishes to a very high luster if so desired. What do you make out of it on the mill? You really think that wood chips are bad for the ways? I clean them off from time to time, but they seem pretty harmless compared to steel. I agree, I don't think a wood chip is going to do the physical damage a metal chip would once it gets pinched between the saddle and the saddle ways on the knee for instance, but I was given to understand it's the resin that's leeched out of woodchips that's abrasive to the ways. I have no idea how pronounced this effect is. I guess it depends on the type of wood (resin) and how much exposure the machine realizes. I grew up with a 9 inch SouthBend lathe in the basement and most of what my father and I turned on it was wood and we never gave it a second thought except maybe my dad emphasized keeping the machine wet with lube. That lathe is now in my basement and I can't say it's any worse for the wear having turned all that wood. On the Millrite, I'm consciencious about keeping the wood chips (and metal chips for that matter) clear because the saddle ways on the knee of my Millrite are already pretty gouged up presumably (looks like) from metal chips and insufficient lube. It was like that when I bought the mill. Also it seems to me wood chips/dust permeate the nooks, crannies and crevaces of the mill much more readily than metal chips do and there are just more exposed machined bearing surfaces on the Millrite mill than on the SouthBend lathe. The other detriment caused by milling wood is that the wood chips/dust tend to wick lube away from parts of the mill you want to keep wet with lube. Of course the obvious solution for this is to lube the mill more frequently when carving wood. I was first told of the wood resin abrasion phenomena by a tool and die maker who really knew his stuff. (Got his mechanical engineering degree *after* a couple of decades working as a tool and die maker.) That fact not withstanding, it does occur to me that there might be a wee bit of "machinist arrogance" (uttered with the utmost of respect for the man and the trade) embodied in the information, in that the purist machinist/metal worker might be inclined to frown on using a mill to process wood, metal working being more "technical", woodworking being more "craft", hence processing wood on a machine tool is "an abuse" of the machine tool. (But that last is just an impression, I'm still doing all I can to keep the wood chips clear of the bearing surfaces on my mill.) Dennis van Dam |
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
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Burke Millrite Spindle Bearings Access Plug
In article ,
wrote: On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 02:41:01 GMT, (Dennis van Dam) wrote: I was first told of the wood resin abrasion phenomena by a tool and die maker who really knew his stuff. (Got his mechanical engineering degree *after* a couple of decades working as a tool and die maker.) That fact not withstanding, it does occur to me that there might be a wee bit of "machinist arrogance" (uttered with the utmost of respect for the man and the trade) embodied in the information, in that the purist machinist/metal worker might be inclined to frown on using a mill to process wood, metal working being more "technical", woodworking being more "craft", hence processing wood on a machine tool is "an abuse" of the machine tool. I cant say Ive ever seen a wood working machine with worn parts that could be attributed to such a phenomenon. Gunner, Good point, however I would contribute that wood working machinery wouldn't be expected to hold the same tolerance that metal working machinery holds, my point being that in so far as there is any credance to wood resin wearing on the machinery, the effects would be less apparent on wood working machinery than on metal working machinery. On the other hand wood working machinery would realize a much greater exposure to the (alleged) phenomena than metal working machinery, which tends to bear out your implied conclusion (that wood resin abrasion is not a problem) indicated in your observation that you've never noticed any acute wear on wood working machinery that could be attributed to wood resin abrasion. This would bring me back to my hunch that some part/all of of the phenomena is/may be attributable to "metal working tools being appropriate to metal processing only" per metal working purists. (BUT I'm still going to keep ALL chips as clear of the the machine as possible) (-8 Dennis van Dam Ive cut a fair amount of wood on metalworking machines..and the only problem Ive noted is the tendency for the sawdust to turn into cardboard in the damnedest places. That would tend to support my observation that wood chips/dust is more pervasive/intrusive on the machinery than metal chips. (Also that it's more compressive) (-8 Gunner "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand, from "Foreign Policy Drains U.S. of Main Weapons" |
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