Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old June 23rd 04, 02:18 PM
Kamus of Kadizhar
 
Posts: n/a
Default Freezing locks

I've got a purely hypothetical question:

ISTR that at one time, freezing locks with Freon was a popular way to
break them. The theory being that you freeze the lock mechanism or
shackle until it becomes brittle, then use a hardened hammer to smash it.

Now I'm being told that's an urban myth.

I come here seeking expertise on frozen metal - is it practical / possible
to freeze steel to where it becomes brittle using a can of Freon? The
technique was to use Freon under pressure, then "spray" it on the lock.
The Freon cools as it expands, freezing the metal.

--Kamus

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Old June 23rd 04, 02:48 PM
Jeff Sellers
 
Posts: n/a
Default Freezing locks

Somebody's been watching too much James Bond......


"Kamus of Kadizhar" wrote in message
news
I've got a purely hypothetical question:

ISTR that at one time, freezing locks with Freon was a popular way to
break them. The theory being that you freeze the lock mechanism or
shackle until it becomes brittle, then use a hardened hammer to smash it.

Now I'm being told that's an urban myth.

I come here seeking expertise on frozen metal - is it practical / possible
to freeze steel to where it becomes brittle using a can of Freon? The
technique was to use Freon under pressure, then "spray" it on the lock.
The Freon cools as it expands, freezing the metal.

--Kamus



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Old June 23rd 04, 03:43 PM
Robert Swinney
 
Posts: n/a
Default Freezing locks

Somebody's been watching too much James Bond......

Yeah! That is about as convenient as the ubiquitous ventilator shaft we see
in every other movie or TV bit. No prison drama would be complete without
the ventilator shaft for the bad guys to crawl to freedom. Also, didcha
ever notice how in the movies there is always a convenient parking space
just outside, or how the phone is answered on the first ring? Or, or --
curtains are always left open so the bad guys can see in, esp. at night.
The hero detective is on duty all hours of the night. Etc, etc, etc .. ad
nauseum. Most directors would be out of their jobs if it were not for these
entertainment "clichés".

Bob Swinney

"Jeff Sellers" wrote in message
...


"Kamus of Kadizhar" wrote in message
news
I've got a purely hypothetical question:

ISTR that at one time, freezing locks with Freon was a popular way to
break them. The theory being that you freeze the lock mechanism or
shackle until it becomes brittle, then use a hardened hammer to smash

it.

Now I'm being told that's an urban myth.

I come here seeking expertise on frozen metal - is it practical /

possible
to freeze steel to where it becomes brittle using a can of Freon? The
technique was to use Freon under pressure, then "spray" it on the lock.
The Freon cools as it expands, freezing the metal.

--Kamus





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Old June 23rd 04, 04:19 PM
Ian Stirling
 
Posts: n/a
Default Freezing locks

Robert Swinney wrote:
Somebody's been watching too much James Bond......


Yeah! That is about as convenient as the ubiquitous ventilator shaft we see
in every other movie or TV bit. No prison drama would be complete without
the ventilator shaft for the bad guys to crawl to freedom. Also, didcha
ever notice how in the movies there is always a convenient parking space


And I can only name one movie where anybody goes to the toilet.
(Die Hard (2?))
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Old June 23rd 04, 04:26 PM
Spehro Pefhany
 
Posts: n/a
Default Freezing locks

On 23 Jun 2004 15:19:15 GMT, the renowned Ian Stirling
wrote:

Robert Swinney wrote:
Somebody's been watching too much James Bond......


Yeah! That is about as convenient as the ubiquitous ventilator shaft we see
in every other movie or TV bit. No prison drama would be complete without
the ventilator shaft for the bad guys to crawl to freedom. Also, didcha
ever notice how in the movies there is always a convenient parking space


And I can only name one movie where anybody goes to the toilet.
(Die Hard (2?))


Pulp Fiction (Travolta) and the Naked Gun movie where Leslie Neilsen
(as Lt. Frank Drebin) goes to the can wearing a wireless mike.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com


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Old June 23rd 04, 04:28 PM
David Billington
 
Posts: n/a
Default Freezing locks

Hopefully someone with more detailed knowledge may chip in but what you
are interested in is the ductile-brittle transistion temperature for the
material. For common structural steels it is not much below freezing
IIRC from college days. Above this temperature failures exhibits ductile
behaviour and below it brittle behaviour but with a transition between
to two dependant on the material. IIRC this property can be an issue in
artic conditions. So I could speculate that freon on a carbon steel lock
may cool it sufficiently to make it brittle, but for alloy steel it may
not. IIRC stainless steel maintains its ductility to lower temperatures
than carbon steel.

Kamus of Kadizhar wrote:

I've got a purely hypothetical question:

ISTR that at one time, freezing locks with Freon was a popular way to
break them. The theory being that you freeze the lock mechanism or
shackle until it becomes brittle, then use a hardened hammer to smash it.

Now I'm being told that's an urban myth.

I come here seeking expertise on frozen metal - is it practical / possible
to freeze steel to where it becomes brittle using a can of Freon? The
technique was to use Freon under pressure, then "spray" it on the lock.
The Freon cools as it expands, freezing the metal.

--Kamus


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Old June 23rd 04, 04:29 PM
jim rozen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Freezing locks

In article , Ian Stirling
says...

And I can only name one movie where anybody goes to the toilet.
(Die Hard (2?))


Last Tango in Paris.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

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Old June 23rd 04, 04:35 PM
Rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Freezing locks


"Jeff Sellers" wrote in message
...
Somebody's been watching too much James Bond......


"Kamus of Kadizhar" wrote in message
news
I've got a purely hypothetical question:

ISTR that at one time, freezing locks with Freon was a popular way to
break them. The theory being that you freeze the lock mechanism or
shackle until it becomes brittle, then use a hardened hammer to smash

it.

Now I'm being told that's an urban myth.

I come here seeking expertise on frozen metal - is it practical /

possible
to freeze steel to where it becomes brittle using a can of Freon? The
technique was to use Freon under pressure, then "spray" it on the lock.
The Freon cools as it expands, freezing the metal.

--Kamus



I wonder if Al Patrick has seen this question yet?

(See "Railroad Track Anvil" thread on sci.engr.joining.welding)


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Old June 23rd 04, 05:05 PM
Grant Erwin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Toilets in movies (was: " Freezing locks")

Ian Stirling wrote:

And I can only name one movie where anybody goes to the toilet.
(Die Hard (2?))


You forgot Pulp Fiction, where John Travolta gets blown away with his
own machine gun after taking a dump in Bruce Willis's apartment ..

  #10   Report Post  
Old June 23rd 04, 05:48 PM
Jim McGill
 
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Default Freezing locks

I'm not sure about freon, but I know liquid nitrogen works on tempered
security chain and lock hasps. Pour it on the chain, give it a tap with
a hammer (or drop it on the floor), and it shatters like glass. It's a
standard lab demonstration of how temperature changes metal properties
(along with the lead bell that sounds like silver at liquid N2
temperatures).

Mac



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