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Old May 14th 04, 11:01 PM
Pdelpriore
 
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Default Rotary Phase Converter

I have a 220 v 3 phase, 3/4 horsepower motor and want to run it from a 220 v
single phase source.
I have a 220 v 3 phase, 3 horsepower motor that I would like to use as a
rotary phase converter. I have a 25, 35, 40 and 40 uf capacitors. I need help
on how to wire these.

Thank you.

Paul

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Old May 14th 04, 11:30 PM
TLKALLAM8
 
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Default Rotary Phase Converter

For $ 156 you can get a vfd it has speed control, breaking ,foward ,reverse .
Its alot better than rotary phase

http://web4.automationdirect.com/adc...ves_-z-_Motors
/GS1_(120_-z-_230_VAC_V-z-Hz_Control)/GS1-21P0
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Old May 14th 04, 11:43 PM
jim rozen
 
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Default Rotary Phase Converter

In article , Pdelpriore says...

I have a 220 v 3 phase, 3/4 horsepower motor and want to run it from a 220 v
single phase source.
I have a 220 v 3 phase, 3 horsepower motor that I would like to use as a
rotary phase converter. I have a 25, 35, 40 and 40 uf capacitors. I need help
on how to wire these.


You probably don't need the capacitors.

Connect your two 240 volt incoming line to two of the three leads
in the large motor, via a fused knife switch.

Connect your load (3/4 hp) motor to all three of the wires of
the idler motor - ie, motors in parallel - via whatever
switch you are going to use to run the load motor.

Spin the large motor up with a small single phase (pony)
motor, getting going at least as fast as the nameplate
speed, and then throw the knife switch to apply the
excitation.

Uncouple the pony motor at this time and turn it off.

Measure the line-to-line voltages on your new three phase
supply, they will probably be within ten percent or better
for load motor that small in comparision to the idler motor
hp rating.

Jim

Your

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Old May 14th 04, 11:51 PM
Grant Erwin
 
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Default Rotary Phase Converter

You know the 2 wires you connect to get 220 single phase power? Call those
line 1 and line 2 (L1 and L2). Connect those to any two of the 3 legs of
the 3hp 3-phase motor through a 30A single phase disconnect (about $10)
using Buss slow-blow fuses in the disconnect box. Connect your load motor
(the 3/4hp one) to L1, L2 and L3 via another cheap disconnect box. Put
a small (10x10x6") electrical box somewhere close and run L1, L2 and L3
to that box. Put an oil-filled motor run capacitor rated for 220VAC between
L1 and L3, and another between L2 and L3. These will be sized big enough
to quiet the buzzing down and small enough so it doesn't start back up
again. If you want to start it using a rope then you're done, otherwise
you need to add some electrolytic motor start capacitors between L1 and L3
in some kind of circuit that will take the capacitors out after the motor
has started. This can be done using a heavy duty pushbutton switch, or
by using a potential relay from Grainger to automatically take out the
start caps.

There are real good schematics available online, but I don't have the
link handy. Google will tell you a lot.

Grant Erwin

Pdelpriore wrote:

I have a 220 v 3 phase, 3/4 horsepower motor and want to run it from a 220 v
single phase source.
I have a 220 v 3 phase, 3 horsepower motor that I would like to use as a
rotary phase converter. I have a 25, 35, 40 and 40 uf capacitors. I need help
on how to wire these.

Thank you.

Paul


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Old May 15th 04, 03:38 AM
Peter H.
 
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Default Rotary Phase Converter



I have a 220 v 3 phase, 3 horsepower motor that I would like to use as a
rotary phase converter. I have a 25, 35, 40 and 40 uf capacitors. I need help


For a 3 HP "self starting" RPC, you'll need about 33 uF from the A-phase to the
B-phase.

That's about 100 uF, which is achievable using the 25, 35 and 40 uF caps.

(They should be rated at least 370 volts).

For a better result, I would start by placing the 60 percent of the total
available capacitance from the A-phase to the B-phase, and the remainder from
the C-phase to the B-phase, thereby achieving a more balanced RPC.

If the RPC then won't self-start, then you're going to have to add a potential
relay and an electrolytic cap of about 360 uF from the A-phase to the B-phase.



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Old May 15th 04, 04:03 AM
patlandy
 
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Default Rotary Phase Converter

Pdelpriore wrote:
I have a 220 v 3 phase, 3/4 horsepower motor and want to run it from a 220 v
single phase source.
I have a 220 v 3 phase, 3 horsepower motor that I would like to use as a
rotary phase converter. I have a 25, 35, 40 and 40 uf capacitors. I need help
on how to wire these.

Thank you.

Paul

Here is a link to the Frugal Machinist's (Roy) Rotary Phase Converter
page. This man's website is one of the most informative
and interesting I have seen.
I used his plans, had a little problem with the relay, so I use a
momentary switch in it's place.... The unit I built using his plans works
flawlessly.
Pat Landy
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Old May 15th 04, 09:34 AM
Gunner
 
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Default Rotary Phase Converter

On Sat, 15 May 2004 02:03:53 GMT, patlandy
wrote:

Pdelpriore wrote:
I have a 220 v 3 phase, 3/4 horsepower motor and want to run it from a 220 v
single phase source.
I have a 220 v 3 phase, 3 horsepower motor that I would like to use as a
rotary phase converter. I have a 25, 35, 40 and 40 uf capacitors. I need help
on how to wire these.

Thank you.

Paul

Here is a link to the Frugal Machinist's (Roy) Rotary Phase Converter
page. This man's website is one of the most informative
and interesting I have seen.
I used his plans, had a little problem with the relay, so I use a
momentary switch in it's place.... The unit I built using his plans works
flawlessly.
Pat Landy


??

G

Another question about RPCs....

Im currently running much of my shop on a 5hp commercial (but old)
rotary converter, but have been running out of power once in a while.
I have a big Clausing 1500 (7hp) that will start ok in direct drive,
but tends to get boggy in any of the gear speeds and when I do a fast
reverse, it pops the 30 amp breakers feeding the RPC.

The commercial RPC sounds like a jet turbine on windup when it runs..I
have it hidden behind a lathe, but it still makes my teeth itch and
actually puts me in a bad mood if I run it for a long period of time.

A guy has offered to give me a very nice, older and very well balanced
20hp motor. "pick it up or we will dump it in the trash".

What sort of cap values is this gonna need?

Should I spin it up with a pony motor? Im up to my butt in belts and
pulleys, so this shouldnt be a problem...lol.

What sort of current draw will it have in idle? Will my electric
meter be spinning like a dervish?

Should I simply hunt around for a 10hp motor instead?

Thanks all. Oh..my Gorton mill runs on its own 5hp VFD.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell
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Old May 15th 04, 11:17 AM
Gary Coffman
 
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Default Rotary Phase Converter

On Sat, 15 May 2004 07:34:33 GMT, Gunner wrote:
A guy has offered to give me a very nice, older and very well balanced
20hp motor. "pick it up or we will dump it in the trash".

What sort of cap values is this gonna need?


For a balanced converter, the rough rule of thumb is 32 uF per hp.
So you'll need about 640 uF total. How you distribute that between
L1-L3 and L2-L3 will need a bit of experimentation to achieve best
balance.

Should I spin it up with a pony motor? Im up to my butt in belts and
pulleys, so this shouldnt be a problem...lol.


Darn straight. Starting surge on a self-starting 20 HP converter is
going to be well in excess of 200 amps. I have a 20 hp converter,
and I use a 1/2 hp 1 ph pony to start it. When I slam in the switch,
the lights don't even flicker. But trying to self-start it always resulted
in a popped breaker.

What sort of current draw will it have in idle? Will my electric
meter be spinning like a dervish?


No. Windage losses, bearing drag, and I^2R losses in the windings
should be under 500 watts no load. If it isn't well balanced and power
factor corrected, reactive currents can get pretty high (up to around
90 amps), but reactive amps won't cause your kWh meter to spin
(though they do require you to size the breaker to accomodate them).
If it is well tuned, reactive currents should be much less. I run my
(tuned) 20 hp converter on a 50A breaker.

Should I simply hunt around for a 10hp motor instead?


Naw, bigger is better (within reason). You'll have better wild leg
regulation when the rotary is much larger than the load motors.
The *minimum* size is for the rotary to be 1.5 times the hp of the
motors it will power. But going several times larger than that will
result in better regulation and a cooler running rotary. My biggest
load motor is the 7.5 hp motor in my Clausing Colchester. The
rotary hardly notices when I start it.

Gary
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Old May 16th 04, 04:12 AM
patlandy
 
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Default Rotary Phase Converter

Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 15 May 2004 02:03:53 GMT, patlandy
wrote:


Pdelpriore wrote:

I have a 220 v 3 phase, 3/4 horsepower motor and want to run it from a 220 v
single phase source.
I have a 220 v 3 phase, 3 horsepower motor that I would like to use as a
rotary phase converter. I have a 25, 35, 40 and 40 uf capacitors. I need help
on how to wire these.

Thank you.

Paul


Here is a link to the Frugal Machinist's (Roy) Rotary Phase Converter
page. This man's website is one of the most informative
and interesting I have seen.
I used his plans, had a little problem with the relay, so I use a
momentary switch in it's place.... The unit I built using his plans works
flawlessly.
Pat Landy



??

G

Another question about RPCs....

Im currently running much of my shop on a 5hp commercial (but old)
rotary converter, but have been running out of power once in a while.
I have a big Clausing 1500 (7hp) that will start ok in direct drive,
but tends to get boggy in any of the gear speeds and when I do a fast
reverse, it pops the 30 amp breakers feeding the RPC.

The commercial RPC sounds like a jet turbine on windup when it runs..I
have it hidden behind a lathe, but it still makes my teeth itch and
actually puts me in a bad mood if I run it for a long period of time.

A guy has offered to give me a very nice, older and very well balanced
20hp motor. "pick it up or we will dump it in the trash".

What sort of cap values is this gonna need?

Should I spin it up with a pony motor? Im up to my butt in belts and
pulleys, so this shouldnt be a problem...lol.

What sort of current draw will it have in idle? Will my electric
meter be spinning like a dervish?

Should I simply hunt around for a 10hp motor instead?

Thanks all. Oh..my Gorton mill runs on its own 5hp VFD.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

JUst noticed I never put the link in.......
http://www.frugalmachinist.com/rpc.html
Pat Landy


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