I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Thanks

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:22:18 -0400, the renowned Kingfish
wrote:

I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Thanks

Okay, let's assume the chapters are *equally* weighted (with each
other), as are mid-term and finals. These are assumptions. And all out
of 100, natch.

1So there are 3 chapter tests, each would count for 60/3 = 20%, and
two
exams, which would count for 40/2 = 20% each as well. That's easy.

Just multiply each score by 0.2 and add, or to put it another way,
it's less calculation to just add up all the scores and divide by 5.

I get 73.8% for the example given.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

It sounds like a bull**** way to grade a course, when the mid-term & final
each count the same as a chapter test.
But then.......
Yesterday I was talking to a guy w/ an engraving shop. I commented that
Little League must be good for business.
He replied, "Yes, it's very good. EVERYONE who plays gets a trophy...... not
like before when only 1st & 2nd place teams got them and the rest of us got,
"try harder next year."


"Kingfish" wrote in message
...
I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Thanks

73.8 is correct, how did you get 80.7?

"Kingfish" wrote in message
...
I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Thanks

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7


I get 73.8%. Here's how I got it:

First, find the average of the test scores: (80+50+69)/3=66.3%

Then, find the average for the midterm and the final: (80+90)/2=85%.

Now, calculate the weighted percentage: (66.3%)*0.6+(85%)*0.4= 73.8%

How does the math go to get 80.7%??

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:22:18 -0400, the renowned Kingfish
wrote:


I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Thanks


Okay, let's assume the chapters are *equally* weighted (with each
other), as are mid-term and finals. These are assumptions. And all out
of 100, natch.

1So there are 3 chapter tests, each would count for 60/3 = 20%, and
two
exams, which would count for 40/2 = 20% each as well. That's easy.

Just multiply each score by 0.2 and add, or to put it another way,
it's less calculation to just add up all the scores and divide by 5.

I get 73.8% for the example given.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


I think that your answer of "add it up and divide by 5" only works because the
number of tests is the same ratio as the weighting. You can see this by taking
an extreme case. Suppose there were 100 chapter tests and only two term tests,
this would not be right.

The formula should be:


grade = ((sum(chapter tests)/number of chapter tests)*weight)+((sum(term
tests)/(number of term tests)*weight)

You get the same answer but this equation works for any number of tests and any
weighting.

73.78= (((80+50+69)/3)*.60)+(((80+90)/2)*.4)


I hope I didn't just do some high schoolers homework:-)

Al

alpinekid wrote:
Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:22:18 -0400, the renowned Kingfish
wrote:


I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Thanks



Okay, let's assume the chapters are *equally* weighted (with each
other), as are mid-term and finals. These are assumptions. And all out
of 100, natch.
1So there are 3 chapter tests, each would count for 60/3 = 20%, and
two
exams, which would count for 40/2 = 20% each as well. That's easy.
Just multiply each score by 0.2 and add, or to put it another way,
it's less calculation to just add up all the scores and divide by 5.
I get 73.8% for the example given.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany



I think that your answer of "add it up and divide by 5" only works
because the number of tests is the same ratio as the weighting. You can
see this by taking an extreme case. Suppose there were 100 chapter tests
and only two term tests, this would not be right.

The formula should be:


grade = ((sum(chapter tests)/number of chapter tests)*weight)+((sum(term
tests)/(number of term tests)*weight)

You get the same answer but this equation works for any number of tests
and any weighting.

73.78= (((80+50+69)/3)*.60)+(((80+90)/2)*.4)


I hope I didn't just do some high schoolers homework:-)

Al
oops, finger check

73.8 not 73.78

Al

"Kingfish" wrote in message
...
I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

I sure hope this wasn't a math class. g As others have said, 73.8.

The average of the chapter test scores count for 60% of the total, so take
the average of them and multiply that average by 0.6.

Then average the midterm and final grades, and multiply that average by 0.4.

Then add those two weighted averages together. 73.8

Ed Huntress


Thanks

Kingfish wrote in message
...
I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Which one says which?

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:04:22 GMT, the renowned alpinekid
wrote:

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:22:18 -0400, the renowned Kingfish
wrote:


I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Thanks


Okay, let's assume the chapters are *equally* weighted (with each
other), as are mid-term and finals. These are assumptions. And all out
of 100, natch.

1So there are 3 chapter tests, each would count for 60/3 = 20%, and
two
exams, which would count for 40/2 = 20% each as well. That's easy.

Just multiply each score by 0.2 and add, or to put it another way,
it's less calculation to just add up all the scores and divide by 5.

I get 73.8% for the example given.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


I think that your answer of "add it up and divide by 5" only works because the
number of tests is the same ratio as the weighting.

Yes, that is correct, as I hope I explained. Being inherently lazy and
concerned with entry errors, I try to simplify things before crunching
numbers (and by using an RPN calculator, of course).

You can see this by taking
an extreme case. Suppose there were 100 chapter tests and only two term tests,
this would not be right.

The formula should be:


grade = ((sum(chapter tests)/number of chapter tests)*weight)+((sum(term
tests)/(number of term tests)*weight)

This only works if the chapter tests and the exams are weighted
equally with each other.

The general answer is

n
---
\
G= | Wi * Si
/
---
i=0

Where Wi is the weight of each individual score (0 = Wi = 1.0)
Si is each score (all must be out of 100, or at least the same
number). Wi has the characteristic that


n
---
\
1.0= | Wi
/
---
i=0


In this case, Wi = 0.2 for i=0..5, so it can be simplified to:

5
---
\
G= 0.2* | Si
/
---
i=0


You get the same answer but this equation works for any number of tests and any
weighting.

With the above assumption. It's also possible, for example, that the 3
chapter exams add up to 60%, but they are not equal.

73.78= (((80+50+69)/3)*.60)+(((80+90)/2)*.4)

I hope I didn't just do some high schoolers homework:-)
Al

Oh, well.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:19:00 -0700, the renowned "larsen-tools"
wrote:

It sounds like a bull**** way to grade a course, when the mid-term & final
each count the same as a chapter test.
But then.......
Yesterday I was talking to a guy w/ an engraving shop. I commented that
Little League must be good for business.
He replied, "Yes, it's very good. EVERYONE who plays gets a trophy...... not
like before when only 1st & 2nd place teams got them and the rest of us got,
"try harder next year."

Around here, all the kids get "participation" trophies (thanks,
China), a couple get "most improved" and "most sportsmanlike" trophies
and all members of the first, second place teams get much nicer (or
gaudier/bigger trophies, depending on the taste of the people doing
the selection). On tournaments, the winners get a trophy (first
place), second and third get crummy medallions.

Believe me, the kids still know the difference between winning and not
winning, and they REALLY want to win.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Kingfish writes:

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

The problem is incompletely specified (method of averaging not given)
and there are many "correct" answers.

By weighting the separate averages:

(80+50+69)*0.60/3 + (80+90)*0.40/2 = 73.8

But because the number of samples (3 and 2) happen to match the 60/40
weights, this is simply to overall average:

(80+50+69+80+90)/5 = 73.8

It would also be reasonable to use RMS averaging (75.0 here), or
different weights to the extreme score values (e.g., drop the lowest,
giving it a weight of zero). These would yield different result which
were less sensitive to sampling errors (one poor performance on a bad
day). But that's asking a lot from a shop teacher, I suppose.

All of which just shows that grades are full of noise and bias, and are
unreliable detectors of intelligence.

actually the terms chapter, mid-term and final were made up. I don't
know exactly what they were, just their weight.


On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:19:00 -0700, "larsen-tools"
wrote:

It sounds like a bull**** way to grade a course, when the mid-term & final
each count the same as a chapter test.
But then.......
Yesterday I was talking to a guy w/ an engraving shop. I commented that
Little League must be good for business.
He replied, "Yes, it's very good. EVERYONE who plays gets a trophy...... not
like before when only 1st & 2nd place teams got them and the rest of us got,
"try harder next year."


"Kingfish" wrote in message
.. .
I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Thanks

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:22:21 -0300, "jtaylor"
wrote:


Kingfish wrote in message
.. .
I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Which one says which?

I knew I shouldn't have put that last sentence in there ;-)

In article ,
Kingfish wrote:

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

According to these conditions, each test of whatever sort counts for 20%.

73.8 is correct for the conditions given (60% chapter, 40% mid/final).

77.5 would be correct if the weighting was 60% mid/final, 40% chapter

I can't figure out where 80.7 came from, other than that place where
most statistics come from, which I'd not care to investigate due to the
smell.

The closest I can get would be 80.8 from dropping the lowest chapter
test score, and using 40% weight chapter, 60% mid/final.

Someone needs to go back to math class - about High School Algebra 1 or
so.

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by

The explanation answers the original question -

Why is the final grade 73.8 rather than 80.7?

No question asked for a formula for the general case of N chapter
tests where N may not match the ratio of the test weights. I agree
with the reasoning applied however.

I am more curious as to how a final grade of 80.7 was computed, though
it was not documented.
Tom


On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:04:22 GMT, alpinekid
wrote:
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:22:18 -0400, the renowned Kingfish
wrote:
I think that your answer of "add it up and divide by 5" only works because the
number of tests is the same ratio as the weighting. You can see this by taking
an extreme case. Suppose there were 100 chapter tests and only two term tests,
this would not be right.

From: Spehro Pefhany

Being inherently lazy and
concerned with entry errors, I try to simplify things before crunching
numbers (and by using an RPN calculator, of course).

I must be lazier than you. I don't like to have to simplify things or worry
about entry errors so I use an AE calculator, of course. G

Richard Coke

Kingfish wrote in message . ..
I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Thanks


As credentialed teacher in California, I would say that it depends
if the group of grades were first averaged and then percentage taken
or were the grades totaled and then perenctages taken. And were the
perenctages averaged?
Personally, I have never gone for the averaging angle. If I see
that the total class in scoring low, I beleive in looking in the
mirror to find the problem!

Neal

There are grading calculators made just for teachers that simplify these
things. My exwife had one and it worked great. Probably something for
the computer nowadays.
I know its not hard math but when you just need to get the grades in on
time....

I worked for a trophy shop for years and that was a large part of the
business just cranking out the same cheap junk that I was certain the
kids would know they didnt deserve.
THe leagues have budgets and now that women run most of this stuff its
all touchy feely.

"Neal" wrote in message
om...
Kingfish wrote in message
. ..
I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Thanks


As credentialed teacher in California, I would say that it depends
if the group of grades were first averaged and then percentage taken
or were the grades totaled and then perenctages taken. And were the
perenctages averaged?
Personally, I have never gone for the averaging angle. If I see
that the total class in scoring low, I beleive in looking in the
mirror to find the problem!

Neal
Neal
I sincerely hope that your credentials don't include teaching English!
Martin

--
martindot herewhybrowat herentlworlddot herecom

Richard Coke wrote:

Being inherently lazy and
concerned with entry errors, I try to simplify things before crunching
numbers (and by using an RPN calculator, of course).

I must be lazier than you. I don't like to have to simplify things or worry
about entry errors so I use an AE calculator, of course. G

Being even lazier, I match your AE and raise you an APL. :-)
(+/80 50 69÷3)(+/80 90÷2)+.x.60 .40
73.8

Ted

dann mann wrote:

There are grading calculators made just for teachers that simplify these
things. My exwife had one and it worked great. Probably something for
the computer nowadays.
I know its not hard math but when you just need to get the grades in on
time....

When I was teaching programming courses, I used a system whereby the
course mark was determined from assignments, two midterms and a final.
The assignments were weighted 10% and the midterms and final had two
sets of weights leaning toward heavier weighting on the second midterm
and final if those marks were increasing. The reasoning being that many
students had a hard time grasping the concepts but once they did get it,
they flew. They deserved credit for that.

I wrote a marks recording and grading program (in APL, of course). I
recorded each set of marks as assignments and papers were marked. At
the end of term, I simply recorded the final exam marks, typed Grade
course_name and directed the output to the printer. A review for any
anomolies and off to the registrar.

Ted

From: Ted Edwards

Being even lazier, I match your AE and raise you an APL. :-)

I think you're bluffing. I'm sure I'm lazier than you. I call your APL and
raise you a Mathcad.

Richard Coke

On 01 May 2004 18:59:13 GMT, the renowned (Richard Coke)
wrote:

From: Ted Edwards

Being even lazier, I match your AE and raise you an APL. :-)

I think you're bluffing. I'm sure I'm lazier than you. I call your APL and
raise you a Mathcad.

Richard Coke

I'm holding a MATLAB...

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On 01 May 2004 18:59:13 GMT, the renowned (Richard Coke)
wrote:

From: Ted Edwards

Being even lazier, I match your AE and raise you an APL. :-)

I think you're bluffing. I'm sure I'm lazier than you. I call your APL and
raise you a Mathcad.

Richard Coke

I'm holding a MATLAB...

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

You guys and your toys! I'm talking about serious math!!

Try a recursive procedure in one of those. Well, at least you can go
out for dinner while it's running.

(IBM's APL2 for OS/2) :-)

Ted

In article , Richard Coke says...

I think you're bluffing.

Heh. Don't go there. Take from somebody who
knows where APL was invented....

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Kingfish wrote:

I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Thanks
well this is the way it is: chap.is 60 percent,
80 +50 + 69 = 199 / 3 = 66.3 points and 60 percent of score
66.3 X .60 = 39.78
then you get the other 40 percent,
80 + 90 = 170
170 / 2 = 85
85 X .40= 34, then you add the 39.78
and the 34
total 73.78
if she is the teacher i hope she is the one correct or she might be
teaching the kids how to do the DIY math.. hope not....\

On 1 May 2004 14:55:05 -0700, jim rozen wrote:

In article , Richard Coke says...

I think you're bluffing.

Heh. Don't go there. Take from somebody who
knows where APL was invented....

Jim

Anybody out there talk Rocky Mountain BASIC????

Mark Rand (did 100 lines per day for 10 years)
RTFM

While I've followed this thread, I have not seen it noted that each
test counts equally at 20%. Just average 'em all to reach 73.8.

-Bruno

jim wrote:

Kingfish wrote:

I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Thanks
well this is the way it is: chap.is 60 percent,
80 +50 + 69 = 199 / 3 = 66.3 points and 60 percent of score
66.3 X .60 = 39.78
then you get the other 40 percent,
80 + 90 = 170
170 / 2 = 85
85 X .40= 34, then you add the 39.78
and the 34
total 73.78
if she is the teacher i hope she is the one correct or she might be
teaching the kids how to do the DIY math.. hope not....\

In article ,
Mark Rand wrote:
On 1 May 2004 14:55:05 -0700, jim rozen wrote:

In article , Richard Coke says...

I think you're bluffing.

Heh. Don't go there. Take from somebody who
knows where APL was invented....

Jim

Anybody out there talk Rocky Mountain BASIC????

Yep! A really nice extension (by HP) to the BASIC language. It
looked somewhat like FORTRAN with the common blocks and the local
variables. I used it on a 9826 and a 9836. I've got a 9816 here from
a hamfest, but there are problems with the firmware, causing wrong bits
at least in the text it displays on power on, and probably in a lot of
the code as well.

How about Basic-09 for OS-9? Again separate compilation of each
module, and purely local variables. (Unfortunately, no common blocks, so
you had to pass *everything* which you needed in your function calls. :-)

That was about the time when I got a serious 'C" compiler (as
well as a serious Pascal compiler), but Basic-09 was a fun thing to play
with.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article , jim wrote:
Kingfish wrote:

I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Thanks
well this is the way it is: chap.is 60 percent,
80 +50 + 69 = 199 / 3 = 66.3 points and 60 percent of score

Here is the problem. You are discarding significant figures
here, because that division above really gives you
63.333333333....

66.3 X .60 = 39.78

This then carries the lost precision on. It should be "39.80".

then you get the other 40 percent,
80 + 90 = 170
170 / 2 = 85
85 X .40= 34, then you add the 39.78

39.80

and the 34
total 73.78

total 73.8 -- as others have produced.

if she is the teacher i hope she is the one correct or she might be
teaching the kids how to do the DIY math.. hope not....\

Your own math was a bit careless. Were you one of those
advocating algebraic notation for the calculator used? This could lead
to you writing down what it displays at an intermediate point, and
losing the figures past the number of digits selected.

The RPN calculators keep the information on the stack, so there
is no need to re-enter intermediate results.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:

That was about the time when I got a serious 'C" compiler (as
well as a serious Pascal compiler),

Serious C? Yes, but serious Pascal???? IMO, the inventor was a much
better politician than mathematician!

Ted

Ted Edwards wrote in message ...
Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On 01 May 2004 18:59:13 GMT, the renowned (Richard Coke)
wrote:

From: Ted Edwards

Being even lazier, I match your AE and raise you an APL. :-)

I think you're bluffing. I'm sure I'm lazier than you. I call your APL and
raise you a Mathcad.

Richard Coke

I'm holding a MATLAB...

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

You guys and your toys! I'm talking about serious math!!

Try a recursive procedure in one of those. Well, at least you can go
out for dinner while it's running.

(IBM's APL2 for OS/2) :-)

Ted

Darn, all I have is a copy of J.



Dan

Dan Caster wrote:
Ted Edwards wrote in message ...

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On 01 May 2004 18:59:13 GMT, the renowned (Richard Coke)
wrote:


From: Ted Edwards



Being even lazier, I match your AE and raise you an APL. :-)

I think you're bluffing. I'm sure I'm lazier than you. I call your APL and
raise you a Mathcad.

Richard Coke

I'm holding a MATLAB...

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

You guys and your toys! I'm talking about serious math!!

Try a recursive procedure in one of those. Well, at least you can go
out for dinner while it's running.

(IBM's APL2 for OS/2) :-)

Ted


Darn, all I have is a copy of J.



Dan


Boy does this take me back. My first programming language was APL.

We had 3 IBM2741 in an old broom closet with a 300baud phone line to
another campus that had the IBM 370-145 or maybe a 360 I forget.

WHen we got the tektronic 4013 graphic terminal and had a 1200 baud line
and everyone stood in line to use it.

I wrote a graphic program what would show the soil that is retained by a
retaining wall. By changing the alpha factor of the soil we could show
how much the soil would slip and would influence the design of the wall.

I also remember that we learned that if we sent and 5 ibeam 3e9 command
it would crash the whole ibm mainframe. Multi-user multi-tasking OS
were not what they are today.


Al

In article , Chuck says...

I also remember that we learned that if we sent and 5 ibeam 3e9 command
it would crash the whole ibm mainframe. Multi-user multi-tasking OS
were not what they are today.

Ha ha. True story: a co-worker had his sister working in the
programming division. One day she calls him up and says, 'hey,
log onto VM and type in this string of characters.'

He does so, and then says, 'hey, the system just crashed!'

"I know, it's a new bug, we just found it!!"

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

I forgot to add that you can get your own copy of J for no cost at
http://www.jsoftware.com Super powerful calculator program.
Highly recommended!!!




(Dan Caster) wrote in message
Darn, all I have is a copy of J.



Dan

On Sun, 02 May 2004 14:36:36 -0400, the renowned "Gene Kearns"
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:22:18 -0400, Kingfish
wrote:

I come to the experts on everything I can think of help. My
teacher-wife asked me if she was calculating this correctly. I didn't
think so. What's the answer and why/how?

Chapter tests count for 60% of the final grade. Mid-term and final
tests count for 40% of the final grade. Scores for chapter tests were
80, 50 and 69. Mid-term and final tests were 80 and 90. What is the
final grade. One of us says 73.8 and the other says 80.7

Thanks

I have something better than math for you..... logic.

(1) Are you going to pass a student that has failed two chapter tests?
and (2) Barring some sort of epiphany, how does a student that
averages 66.3 on chapter tests miraculously know 85 percent of the
material (Average) at mid-term and final?

Something doesn't add up here, and it ain't math.....

The student might have had a bad day on the chapter test. The test
might have inadvertently been too difficult (one of my most memorable
mid-terms in University had an AVERAGE grade of 18/50 and this was an
über-engineering lot (EngSci). The professor actually apologized after
that one (a VERY rare occurence). They bell-curved the grades upward,
but it was pretty meaningless at that point.

I've found the three community college courses I've taken recently
seem to deliberately make the quizzes "relatively" difficult and the
exams very easy. Dunno why. I sure wouldn't want to hire someone who
only got 60% in those courses (and there were people who were that
bad, and not necessarily just because their first language was
Gujarati or Urdu, though I'm sure that didn't help).

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

In article ,
Ted Edwards wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

That was about the time when I got a serious 'C" compiler (as
well as a serious Pascal compiler),

Serious C? Yes, but serious Pascal???? IMO, the inventor was a much
better politician than mathematician!

Well ... the "serious" C was the C compiler available for OS-9,
which was pretty close to K&R. My prior experiences were with the
various "Tiny" C compilers, with lots of features missing.

As for the "serious" Pascal -- it was also for OS-9, and
supported random file access (through extensions incompatible with
everybody elses, as usual), and separate compilation and linking (very
cumbersome -- I found it easier to do shared code between programs in a
suite with a "include" pre-processor which I wrote in that C). The
Pascal was at least pretty bog-standard ISO Pascal, not the warped
version by UCSD. And -- you could use whatever editor you happened to
prefer on it, instead of being stuck with one which was part of the
package.

I did write a serious suite of programs in that Pascal -- and
it helped to undo a lot of bad practice learning from earlier BASIC
interpreters.

I later ported those programs to C on a unix box, and the real
fun was writing something to take apart the partially-binary data file
format (including set variables which could have up to 256 members in
the set) and translate it into something that C could more easily handle
-- and something which could be ported between machines independent of
endian-ness -- until I hit the 64-bit unix machines. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article ,
Chuck wrote:
Dan Caster wrote:

[ ... ]

Boy does this take me back. My first programming language was APL.

[ ... ]


We had 3 IBM2741 in an old broom closet with a 300baud phone line to
another campus that had the IBM 370-145 or maybe a 360 I forget.

[ ... ]

I also remember that we learned that if we sent and 5 ibeam 3e9 command
it would crash the whole ibm mainframe. Multi-user multi-tasking OS
were not what they are today.

Some of them still are not. About ten years ago, before my wife
retired, she (and the agency for which she worked) were doing testing on
a rather complex database system which a contractor was trying to
provide them.

In a meeting, the contractor was boasting about how robust it
was. Another co-worker said "Robust! I can bring it down with one
keystroke!

"Show us!"

So they went to a terminal logged onto the training database,
and the co-worker went through a series of steps which were all agreed
to be normal things, and ended up at a (yet another*) menu. And asked
"Everything is normal up to this point, right?". "Yes." "O.K., now!"
and she reached out and depressed *one* key.

It not only brought down the training database, but also the
production database which was running on the same machine. :-)


* "Yet another menu" -- there were so many menus on this system, with
*No* shortcuts, that my wife and I referred to this
system as "Menu Madness". :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---