Variable drive idea
At a recent OTC show in Houston, SWACO, a oilfield services contractor, was
showing off a mud centrifuge with a unique drive system. It consisted of a flywheel with rare earth magnets mounted on it and a solid copper flywheel opposite it. The closer the rotating magnetic flywheel gets to the copper flywheel, the more rotational energy is transfered. With the two flywheels close together, both would spin at the same speed. As they were seperated the driven flywheel would slow down, and with enough gap, completely stop. No energy comsumed to operare as a variable speed tranny and clutch. Picture the implications of this in the auto industry future. Never realized that a magnetic field would affect copper. I'm talking about a 100hp(?)motor rotating a 1000#(?) centrifuge bowl and rotor |
Variable drive idea
For more info checkout : www.magnadrive.com
Very cool. Jim "GMasterman" wrote in message ... At a recent OTC show in Houston, SWACO, a oilfield services contractor, was showing off a mud centrifuge with a unique drive system. It consisted of a flywheel with rare earth magnets mounted on it and a solid copper flywheel opposite it. The closer the rotating magnetic flywheel gets to the copper flywheel, the more rotational energy is transfered. With the two flywheels close together, both would spin at the same speed. As they were seperated the driven flywheel would slow down, and with enough gap, completely stop. No energy comsumed to operare as a variable speed tranny and clutch. Picture the implications of this in the auto industry future. Never realized that a magnetic field would affect copper. I'm talking about a 100hp(?)motor rotating a 1000#(?) centrifuge bowl and rotor |
Variable drive idea
GMasterman wrote:
At a recent OTC show in Houston, SWACO, a oilfield services contractor, was showing off a mud centrifuge with a unique drive system. It consisted of a flywheel with rare earth magnets mounted on it and a solid copper flywheel opposite it. The closer the rotating magnetic flywheel gets to the copper flywheel, the more rotational energy is transfered. With the two flywheels close together, both would spin at the same speed. As they were seperated the driven flywheel would slow down, and with enough gap, completely stop. No energy comsumed to operare as a variable speed tranny and clutch. Picture the implications of this in the auto industry future. Never realized that a magnetic field would affect copper. I'm talking about a 100hp(?)motor rotating a 1000#(?) centrifuge bowl and rotor The E & M fields are powerful. Sounds neat. One wants something like that in the oilfield - no sparking. Induced currents. I noticed a number of new designs in a magazine I get at work - Hope I have it still - the ends are speed control and all sorts of fancy stuff. Guess the industry has thought energy saving or something. Martin -- Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn @ home at Lion's Lair with our computer NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder |
Variable drive idea
not totally true that "no energy is consumed" - there is IR loss in the
copper because there is a finite resistance -- now if you used a superconductor then it might approach zero "GMasterman" wrote in message ... At a recent OTC show in Houston, SWACO, a oilfield services contractor, was showing off a mud centrifuge with a unique drive system. It consisted of a flywheel with rare earth magnets mounted on it and a solid copper flywheel opposite it. The closer the rotating magnetic flywheel gets to the copper flywheel, the more rotational energy is transfered. With the two flywheels close together, both would spin at the same speed. As they were seperated the driven flywheel would slow down, and with enough gap, completely stop. No energy comsumed to operare as a variable speed tranny and clutch. Picture the implications of this in the auto industry future. Never realized that a magnetic field would affect copper. I'm talking about a 100hp(?)motor rotating a 1000#(?) centrifuge bowl and rotor |
Variable drive idea
"GMasterman" wrote in message
... The closer the rotating magnetic flywheel gets to the copper flywheel, the more rotational energy is transfered. With the two flywheels close together, both would spin at the same speed. Not quite lossless; anywhere you have the same torque (and torque input supplied to the magnetic flywheel, must equal torque output from the copper flywheel) and a difference in RPM, power is lost. If torque were higher on the lower RPM shaft, then power would be conserved. But that requires gears or belts. In this case, the power is lost as eddy currents in the copper plate. Same mechanical effect as friction in a normal clutch (with the exception that a real clutch, when tight, won't have slippage!). Neat application of it though. Bit of trivia: that's exactly how they do tachs and speedometers. The needle is spring-loaded and has a copper disc on it; a spinning magnet (which is feed by whatever shaft) transmits torque to the spring based on RPM, thereby causing the needle to deflect (based on the spring constant). Tim -- "I have misplaced my pants." - Homer Simpson | Electronics, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --+ Metalcasting and Games: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms |
Variable drive idea
GMasterman writes:
At a recent OTC show in Houston, SWACO, a oilfield services contractor, was showing off a mud centrifuge with a unique drive system. It consisted of a flywheel with rare earth magnets mounted on it and a solid copper flywheel opposite it. The closer the rotating magnetic flywheel gets to the copper flywheel, the more rotational energy is transfered. With the two flywheels close together, both would spin at the same speed. As they were seperated the driven flywheel would slow down, and with enough gap, completely stop. No energy comsumed to operare as a variable speed tranny and clutch. Sure sounds like boob bait. No energy consumed, eh? Were they asking for investors? If you have any of those neodymium magnets around, try rolling one down a thick slab of aluminum, or dropping one down the middle of a close-fitting aluminum or copper tube. |
Variable drive idea
GMasterman wrote:
At a recent OTC show in Houston, SWACO, a oilfield services contractor, was showing off a mud centrifuge with a unique drive system. It consisted of a flywheel with rare earth magnets mounted on it and a solid copper flywheel opposite it. The closer the rotating magnetic flywheel gets to the copper flywheel, the more rotational energy is transfered. With the two flywheels close together, both would spin at the same speed. As they were seperated the driven flywheel would slow down, and with enough gap, completely stop. No energy comsumed to operare as a variable speed tranny and clutch. Picture the implications of this in the auto industry future. Never realized that a magnetic field would affect copper. I'm talking about a 100hp(?)motor rotating a 1000#(?) centrifuge bowl and rotor Eddy currents in non-ferrous metals. Fun stuff. Wanna baffle a lot of people? Drop a rare earth magnet down a piece of aluminum pipe. Have them explain to you why it drops the way it does. The same effect is used to damp oscillations on beam balances. The faster the plate passes the magnet, the more resistance there is, and there is no effect once the plate stops. Used on a lot of reloading scales, among others. Cheers Trevor Jones |
Variable drive idea
In article ,
Trevor Jones wrote: Wanna baffle a lot of people? Drop a rare earth magnet down a piece of aluminum pipe. Have them explain to you why it drops the way it does. OK, having seen this type of mention twice in this thread now, and lacking the ability to perform the "experiment" (Got some HDD magnets, but apparently nothing suitable to drop them down - they just slid down the aluminum flashing I tried. Big fat hairy deal...) I gotta know: What happens? (Not the physics, electrical theory, etc, just the physical "What am I supposed to see when I do it?") -- Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004. I respond to Email as quick as humanly possible. If you Email me and get no response, see http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html Short form: I'm trashing EVERYTHING that doesn't contain a password in the subject. |
Variable drive idea
I worked on a small Renault in the early seventies that used a air gap
clutch with electromagnets. It was an interesting affair with radio tubes in the control box. All kinds of devices have been designed using eddy currents including tachs as mentioned.... even dynomometers. Lots of new designs using old ideas. Also old ideas like perpetual motion/zero energy loss in new designs. Randy "GMasterman" wrote in message ... At a recent OTC show in Houston, SWACO, a oilfield services contractor, was showing off a mud centrifuge with a unique drive system. It consisted of a flywheel with rare earth magnets mounted on it and a solid copper flywheel opposite it. The closer the rotating magnetic flywheel gets to the copper flywheel, the more rotational energy is transfered. With the two flywheels close together, both would spin at the same speed. As they were seperated the driven flywheel would slow down, and with enough gap, completely stop. No energy comsumed to operare as a variable speed tranny and clutch. Picture the implications of this in the auto industry future. Never realized that a magnetic field would affect copper. I'm talking about a 100hp(?)motor rotating a 1000#(?) centrifuge bowl and rotor |
Variable drive idea
Don Bruder wrote:
In article , Trevor Jones wrote: Wanna baffle a lot of people? Drop a rare earth magnet down a piece of aluminum pipe. Have them explain to you why it drops the way it does. OK, having seen this type of mention twice in this thread now, and lacking the ability to perform the "experiment" (Got some HDD magnets, but apparently nothing suitable to drop them down - they just slid down the aluminum flashing I tried. Big fat hairy deal...) I gotta know: What happens? (Not the physics, electrical theory, etc, just the physical "What am I supposed to see when I do it?") Get a magnet 'set' out of an old hard drive - the type that has two magnets in a holder with a gap between the two. Saddle this assembly over the edge of an aliminum plate (an aluminum framing square is perfect for this). By hand, move the magnets rapidly along the aluminum. You will be able to feel the resistance. Regards. Ken. -- http://www.rupert.net/~solar Return address supplied by 'spammotel' http://www.spammotel.com |
Variable drive idea
I actually did this when I read about it on this NG. I bought a few rare
earth magnets, took 3 of 'em and stacked them up (be careful, they pull together so hard it can pinch) and dropped them into a straight piece of 1/2" copper pipe. Actually, it's best to take a slug of steel and drop it down first. Plunk. Then drop the magnets. They sort of float down gently, taking several seconds. It's fascinating to watch. I took the whole shebang to my son's physics teacher and told him "here's a great classroom demo". He thought so too and I'll bet that gets shown every year at the local junior high for awhile. GWE Don Bruder wrote: In article , Trevor Jones wrote: Wanna baffle a lot of people? Drop a rare earth magnet down a piece of aluminum pipe. Have them explain to you why it drops the way it does. OK, having seen this type of mention twice in this thread now, and lacking the ability to perform the "experiment" (Got some HDD magnets, but apparently nothing suitable to drop them down - they just slid down the aluminum flashing I tried. Big fat hairy deal...) I gotta know: What happens? (Not the physics, electrical theory, etc, just the physical "What am I supposed to see when I do it?") |
Variable drive idea
Don Bruder wrote:
In article , Trevor Jones wrote: Wanna baffle a lot of people? Drop a rare earth magnet down a piece of aluminum pipe. Have them explain to you why it drops the way it does. OK, having seen this type of mention twice in this thread now, and lacking the ability to perform the "experiment" (Got some HDD magnets, but apparently nothing suitable to drop them down - they just slid down the aluminum flashing I tried. Big fat hairy deal...) I gotta know: What happens? (Not the physics, electrical theory, etc, just the physical "What am I supposed to see when I do it?") It drops in slow motion. In a vertical tube, the magnet will flutter down at about half the speed of about any other object of similar density that you can drop down the tube. A magnet dropped down the side of a sloped sheet of aluminum will show some of the same effect, but it really only shows well when you can drop a washer or such, alongside the magnet. Pretty comical to hear the explanations why, sometimes. Cheers Trevor Jones |
Variable drive idea
"Tim Williams" wrote: (clip) Bit of trivia: that's exactly how they do tachs and speedometers. The needle is spring-loaded and has a copper disc on it; a spinning magnet (which is feed by whatever shaft) transmits torque to the spring based on RPM, thereby causing the needle to deflect (based on the spring constant). ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Once the needle reaches the balance point, the angular velocity is zero, so the efficiency drops to zero. But, since the device is transmitting information to the driver, the power-in is being converted to intelligence--it ought to be possible to derive a conversion factor for energy to information G. |
Variable drive idea
Another eddy current effect is to put a small DC voltage on a 120 VAC shaded
pole motor. The rotor will sort of ooze around when you turn it by hand. I made a great payout reel drag by using one of these driven by a swing arm potentiometer controlling an LM317 voltage regulator. Very non-critical, but worked much better than a friction brake. Earle Rich Mont Vernon, NH |
Variable drive idea
Nothing new about it except the use of rare earth magnets and the variable
airgap. It is an eddy current drive that has been common in large industrial drives since the 50's. In the original design, they used a large variable electromagnet to provide the flux. They have been replaced in most industrial uses today by VFD's since eddy current drives are so inefficient in constant torque, large speed reductions. A plant I worked in had 4, 500 hp eddy current drives controlling the screw speed in some polyethylene extruders. As soon as VFD technology got cheap enough, they were replaced with VFD's with a huge reduction in drive system losses. Randy "GMasterman" wrote in message ... At a recent OTC show in Houston, SWACO, a oilfield services contractor, was showing off a mud centrifuge with a unique drive system. It consisted of a flywheel with rare earth magnets mounted on it and a solid copper flywheel opposite it. The closer the rotating magnetic flywheel gets to the copper flywheel, the more rotational energy is transfered. With the two flywheels close together, both would spin at the same speed. As they were seperated the driven flywheel would slow down, and with enough gap, completely stop. No energy comsumed to operare as a variable speed tranny and clutch. Picture the implications of this in the auto industry future. Never realized that a magnetic field would affect copper. I'm talking about a 100hp(?)motor rotating a 1000#(?) centrifuge bowl and rotor |
Variable drive idea
Wanna baffle a lot of people? Drop a rare earth magnet down a piece of
aluminum pipe. Have them explain to you why it drops the way it does. OK, having seen this type of mention twice in this thread now, and lacking the ability to perform the "experiment" (Got some HDD magnets, but apparently nothing suitable to drop them down - they just slid down the aluminum flashing I tried. Big fat hairy deal...) I gotta know: What happens? (Not the physics, electrical theory, etc, just the physical "What am I supposed to see when I do it?") Try something thicker than aluminum flashing. (To be sure, I just tried it with a HDD magnet on the back a piece of aluminum t-track and it worked great.) The magnet should slide down abnormally slowly. Compare by sliding a coin or something. It's way cool! - Owen - |
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