Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Karl Townsend
 
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Default run car on moonshine

Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car will
run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the shop
warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn burner
boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200 proof
VBG




--
(©¿©) An apple a day keeps the doctor away.
Two apples a day gets the doctor's OK.
Five a day makes you a fruit grower like me.

Karl Townsend


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Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Jim Stewart
 
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Default run car on moonshine

Karl Townsend wrote:
Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car will
run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the shop
warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn burner
boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200 proof
VBG


I believe you'll need a federal license and
custody controls as well.
  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
clare at snyder.on.ca
 
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Default run car on moonshine

On Mon, 22 May 2006 23:54:35 GMT, "Karl Townsend"
remove .NOT wrote:


Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking


Forget corn likker - run it on cider from windfalls.(distilled, of
course)

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
  #4   Report Post  
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gfulton
 
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Default run car on moonshine


"Karl Townsend" remove .NOT wrote in
message k.net...
Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car
will run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the
shop warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn
burner boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200
proof VBG




--
(©¿©) An apple a day keeps the doctor away.
Two apples a day gets the doctor's OK.
Five a day makes you a fruit grower like me.

Karl Townsend



Karl,
The Mother Earth News magazine built an alcohol still back in one of
their articles about 20 something years ago. I believe I've still got it in
the basement amongst all the old issues. Do a google search on it and it
should turn up. I remember the guy that designed it was named Dennis
Burkholder and he claimed that burning the corncobs provided all the heat he
needed for distillation. Also found that putting glass marbles in the
cooling column enhanced production by giving the vapors something to
condense on, if I remember that correctly. Good interesting article and he
ran some engines off if it, I believe. Hope this helps.

Garrett Fulton


  #5   Report Post  
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Pete C.
 
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Default run car on moonshine

Jim Stewart wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:
Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car will
run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the shop
warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn burner
boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200 proof
VBG


I believe you'll need a federal license and
custody controls as well.


Yep. There are people doing it so it's not an insurmountable obstacle
though. Since you wouldn't get the various subsidies and tax breaks the
big ethanol producers get I'm pretty sure you'd have to be growing the
feed stock yourself on your own Ag tax exempted land in order to get a
price point cheaper than the local gas station.

You'd have an easier time going the biodiesel route I think.

Pete C.


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Ignoramus18798
 
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Default run car on moonshine

I made a moonshine apparatus at the age of 15. It worked. Made
moonshine that could burn. It is a trivial project. Especially in a
country where condenser coils are easily available.

i

On Mon, 22 May 2006 20:38:51 -0500, gfulton wrote:

"Karl Townsend" remove .NOT wrote in
message k.net...
Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car
will run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the
shop warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn
burner boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200
proof VBG





Karl Townsend



Karl,
The Mother Earth News magazine built an alcohol still back in one of
their articles about 20 something years ago. I believe I've still got it in
the basement amongst all the old issues. Do a google search on it and it
should turn up. I remember the guy that designed it was named Dennis
Burkholder and he claimed that burning the corncobs provided all the heat he
needed for distillation. Also found that putting glass marbles in the
cooling column enhanced production by giving the vapors something to
condense on, if I remember that correctly. Good interesting article and he
ran some engines off if it, I believe. Hope this helps.

Garrett Fulton



  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Gunner
 
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Default run car on moonshine

On Mon, 22 May 2006 23:54:35 GMT, "Karl Townsend"
remove .NOT wrote:

Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car will
run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the shop
warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn burner
boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200 proof
VBG


Will soon be $3 a gallon? The cheapest Ive paid in the last 3 months
is $3.27 a gallon.

Im putting $30-40 in my gas tank EVERY DAY.

And it sucks. Badly

And we can thank the Left for not allowing more refineries to be
built, or more wells to be drilled.

Thanks assholes!!!


Gunner

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33
  #8   Report Post  
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wayne mak
 
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Default run car on moonshine

If I have read correctly you don't need 200 proof, I think even the big
plants don't reach that.

There is a ton of info on the web and growing on this, sure would be nice to
save some cash and do just a little to help not fund the killers over seas.


"Karl Townsend" remove .NOT wrote in
message k.net...
Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car
will run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the
shop warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn
burner boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200
proof VBG




--
(©¿©) An apple a day keeps the doctor away.
Two apples a day gets the doctor's OK.
Five a day makes you a fruit grower like me.

Karl Townsend



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Dave Hinz
 
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Default run car on moonshine

On Tue, 23 May 2006 01:39:31 GMT, Pete C. wrote:

Yep. There are people doing it so it's not an insurmountable obstacle
though. Since you wouldn't get the various subsidies and tax breaks the
big ethanol producers get I'm pretty sure you'd have to be growing the
feed stock yourself on your own Ag tax exempted land in order to get a
price point cheaper than the local gas station.


Well isn't that the reason for E85 rather than straight Ethanol? You're
denaturing it.

Hm. What's spot price on denatured alcohol these days?

You'd have an easier time going the biodiesel route I think.


Depends on the engine

  #10   Report Post  
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F. George McDuffee
 
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Default run car on moonshine

On Mon, 22 May 2006 23:54:35 GMT, "Karl Townsend"
remove .NOT wrote:

Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car will
run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the shop
warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn burner
boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200 proof
VBG

===================
see
http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/still/index.html

http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks/producer/index.html

good people to deal with
Unka George
(George McDuffee)

There is something to be said for government by a great aristocracy
which has furnished leaders to the nation in peace and war for generations;
even a democrat like myself must admit this.

But there is absolutely nothing to be said for government by a plutocracy,
for government by men very powerful in certain lines and gifted with the "money touch,"
but with ideals which in their essence are merely those of so many glorified pawnbrokers.

Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919), U.S. Republican (later Progressive) politician, president. Letter, 15 Nov. 1913.


  #11   Report Post  
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cavelamb
 
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Default run car on moonshine

Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 22 May 2006 23:54:35 GMT, "Karl Townsend"
remove .NOT wrote:


Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car will
run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the shop
warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn burner
boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200 proof
VBG



Will soon be $3 a gallon? The cheapest Ive paid in the last 3 months
is $3.27 a gallon.

Im putting $30-40 in my gas tank EVERY DAY.

And it sucks. Badly

And we can thank the Left for not allowing more refineries to be
built, or more wells to be drilled.

Thanks assholes!!!


Gunner


Not disagreeing with the sentiments in the least, but I'm not that
bright and need a better target aquisition data than some nebulous left.

But Really Gunny, is that YOUR left, or MY left, or Ted Kennedy's left,
or what?

We seem to have a pretty broad range of lefts and rights around here.


Richard

So I figure almost everybody will get a kick outta this one...
Bud Davisson's new novel.

The Stonewall Factor

http://www.airbum.com/novels.html

"This is a Non-Paid Political Announcement"
  #12   Report Post  
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Jon Elson
 
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Default run car on moonshine

Karl Townsend wrote:
Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car will
run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the shop
warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn burner
boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200 proof
VBG

Before going to a lot of effort, you need to look into butanol

http://www.butanol.com/

there are a bunch of web sites about it, but the drop-in replacement
sounds like a great advance from pure ethanol. And, no licences required.

Jon
  #13   Report Post  
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PoP Rivit
 
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Default run car on moonshine

Good moonshine cost more than $3 a gallon to make and it's less than
200 proof. If alcohol was cheap to make it would have replaced
gasoline many years ago. I believe 200 proof is impossible to make. I
looked into this several years ago. If I remember correctly you need
about 80% alcohol to run a gasoline engine (160 Proof). You can't
make 5 gallons of 160 proof alcohol in a day without making a career
out of it. . It takes several weeks and about 100 gallons of mash to
get 5 to 10 gallons of auto burnable alcohol. I've seen people pay
$50 for a gallon of moonshine. $3.00 a gallon for gas is cheap
compared to making alcohol on small scale .





On the day of Mon, 22 May 2006 23:54:35 GMT...
"Karl Townsend" remove .NOT
typed these letters:

Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car will
run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the shop
warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn burner
boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200 proof
VBG




--
(©¿©) An apple a day keeps the doctor away.
Two apples a day gets the doctor's OK.
Five a day makes you a fruit grower like me.

Karl Townsend



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Nick Hull
 
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Default run car on moonshine

In article ,
Gunner wrote:

Will soon be $3 a gallon? The cheapest Ive paid in the last 3 months
is $3.27 a gallon.

Im putting $30-40 in my gas tank EVERY DAY.

And it sucks. Badly

And we can thank the Left for not allowing more refineries to be
built, or more wells to be drilled.

Thanks assholes!!!


It's not just gas, it's wartime inflation. Everything is going up,
thank those who started the war.

http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

will give you an idea who really started the 'war on terror'

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/
  #15   Report Post  
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Norm De Plume
 
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Default run car on moonshine

Apparently much of the performance from burning moonshine comes from
the driver yelling "YEE-HAH," and it works well only 1960s Chrysler
muscle cars or dilapidated trucks that drove from Hooterville to
Beverly Hills.



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Gunner
 
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Default run car on moonshine

On Tue, 23 May 2006 10:11:08 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner wrote:

Will soon be $3 a gallon? The cheapest Ive paid in the last 3 months
is $3.27 a gallon.

Im putting $30-40 in my gas tank EVERY DAY.

And it sucks. Badly

And we can thank the Left for not allowing more refineries to be
built, or more wells to be drilled.

Thanks assholes!!!


It's not just gas, it's wartime inflation. Everything is going up,
thank those who started the war.

http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

will give you an idea who really started the 'war on terror'


The Drongoids from Drong IV???

No ****? Really?

For what reason? They are normally more circumspect when they destroy
a planet

Gunner

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33
  #17   Report Post  
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Eide
 
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Default run car on moonshine

What do you drive Gunner?

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 May 2006 23:54:35 GMT, "Karl Townsend"
remove .NOT wrote:

Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car
will
run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the
shop
warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn burner
boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200
proof
VBG


Will soon be $3 a gallon? The cheapest Ive paid in the last 3 months
is $3.27 a gallon.

Im putting $30-40 in my gas tank EVERY DAY.

And it sucks. Badly

And we can thank the Left for not allowing more refineries to be
built, or more wells to be drilled.

Thanks assholes!!!


Gunner

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33



  #18   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

95% (190 proof) is the maximum you can get without using benzine (think
cancer). The marbles were for fractional distillation to get 95% in one
run of the still. You do need a liscense, etc. Don't drink it. You need
to control the distillation if you don't want to poison yourself and
the revenuers will come take you away.
Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car will
run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the shop
warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn burner
boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200 proof
VBG




--
(©¿©) An apple a day keeps the doctor away.
Two apples a day gets the doctor's OK.
Five a day makes you a fruit grower like me.

Karl Townsend


  #19   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
E. Walter Le Roy
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

Vince Gingery wrote a book on the construction of one awhile back. It's
available from Lindsay @ lindsaybks.com
"Karl Townsend" remove .NOT wrote in
message k.net...
Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car
will run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the
shop warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn
burner boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200
proof VBG




--
(©¿©) An apple a day keeps the doctor away.
Two apples a day gets the doctor's OK.
Five a day makes you a fruit grower like me.

Karl Townsend



  #20   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Dave Lyon
 
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Default run car on moonshine


" wrote in message
oups.com...
95% (190 proof) is the maximum you can get without using benzine (think
cancer). The marbles were for fractional distillation to get 95% in one
run of the still. You do need a liscense, etc. Don't drink it. You need
to control the distillation if you don't want to poison yourself and
the revenuers will come take you away.
Karl


You don't have to use benzene to get rid of the other 5% of water. You can
use a desiccant. But, you still don't want to drink it, and you do need a
license.




  #21   Report Post  
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Larry Jaques
 
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Default run car on moonshine

On Mon, 22 May 2006 22:20:25 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"wayne mak" quickly quoth:

If I have read correctly you don't need 200 proof, I think even the big
plants don't reach that.


Yabbut, if you did that, you could also use the resultant alcohol to
make shellac, and shellac is a beautiful clear finish on wood.

There is a ton of info on the web and growing on this, sure would be nice to
save some cash and do just a little to help not fund the killers over seas.


You realize that we import only about 20% from OPEC countries, don't
you?

---
In Christianity, neither morality nor religion comes into contact
with reality at any point. --FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE
---------------------------------------------------------------
- http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development -
  #22   Report Post  
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Dave Hinz
 
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Default run car on moonshine

On Tue, 23 May 2006 08:32:10 -0700, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2006 22:20:25 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"wayne mak" quickly quoth:

There is a ton of info on the web and growing on this, sure would be nice to
save some cash and do just a little to help not fund the killers over seas.


You realize that we import only about 20% from OPEC countries, don't
you?


Great. So lets offset _that_ 20% first then.
  #23   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
wayne mak
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

20% is a BUNCH of money
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 May 2006 08:32:10 -0700, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di
wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2006 22:20:25 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"wayne mak" quickly quoth:

There is a ton of info on the web and growing on this, sure would be nice
to
save some cash and do just a little to help not fund the killers over
seas.


You realize that we import only about 20% from OPEC countries, don't
you?


Great. So lets offset _that_ 20% first then.



  #24   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Dave Hinz
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:06:12 -0400, wayne mak wrote:
20% is a BUNCH of money


Sure is. But at 3 bucks a gallon for gasoline, ethanol starts being
worth looking into. Like I say, it's not all of our imports, but if we
can stop giving money to people who are trying to kill us, that'll help.

  #25   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

On Tue, 23 May 2006 08:23:51 -0400, "Eide"
wrote:

What do you drive Gunner?


I drive a 1994 Mazda B3000 (rebadged Ford Ranger) with a rather small
V-6 engine in it. Freshly rebuilt.

Im also a self employed machine tool repair guy who drives 65,000
miles a year on average.

A typical day is 75-300 miles, of which only some of it is billable.

A half tank fill up 2 yrs ago was $13USD. Today its $35

Gunner


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 May 2006 23:54:35 GMT, "Karl Townsend"
remove .NOT wrote:

Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car
will
run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the
shop
warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn burner
boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200
proof
VBG


Will soon be $3 a gallon? The cheapest Ive paid in the last 3 months
is $3.27 a gallon.

Im putting $30-40 in my gas tank EVERY DAY.

And it sucks. Badly

And we can thank the Left for not allowing more refineries to be
built, or more wells to be drilled.

Thanks assholes!!!


Gunner

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33



"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33


  #26   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

This CAN be done, but on a small scale, you are going to be putting a
lot more energy into it that what the alcohol coming out of it will
give you. 200 proof takes special circumstances and a lot more energy
to attain. Also unnecessary if all you're going to do is burn the
stuff. About 180-190 is the best you can do with straight distillation
and you'll have to have a hell of a column and control to do it. If
you can get your inputs, heat, starch, water and yeast, for free, it
might be worth messing with. For corn, you need some method to convert
the starch to sugar, usually using an enzyme, before it can be
fermented. This stuff is old tried and true technology, you can find
descriptions of how it's done in chemical engineering texts. Around
the first oil crisis, there were a lot of articles in the
back-to-the-earth rags on ethanol production, might be a trip to the
library will turn up something.

In this country, BATFE WILL have a finger in any pie that includes
ethanol, there's exemptions for fuel production but you have to apply
for them and get approval before commencing anything and you WILL
produce and denature as they decree. Otherwise, it's a fast trip to
the federal pokey and a slow wait to get out. It's a tax thing,
penalties for shooting people are less. At one time, they used to have
some details on their web site on exempted alcohol production but when
they moved, it all changed. Might be worth googling up, though.

Stan

  #29   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Dave Hinz
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

On Tue, 23 May 2006 18:23:07 GMT, Dave Lyon wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...


Perhaps, but no reason to go for 200. And if it's wintertime, that
"waste heat" just heats your house so it's not wasted...


It's also untrue. That myth was started by one study that was underwritten
by the oil industry.


What? (shock) You mean the oil company would spread FUD about a
competing technology? You can't be serious!

You do need to go for 200 proof if you're going to denature with gasoline
(which seems to be the preferred method)


I'm not sure I believe that. When you put Heet into your gas tank, is
not the alcohol making the water harmless to your engine? What happens
if you burn, say, 75% ethanol with 25% water?
  #30   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Dave August
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

The big problem is that to get the most alcohol out of the wort you need
plenty of sugar, about 1 pound per 10 gallons of wort. (don't ask how I
know). Buying/growing the corn isn't that hard, but you start to buy large
amounts of sugar and BATF will be on you in no time.

IIRC 5 gallons of 180+ proof is about 50 gallons of wort, normal (not fast
ferment) takes about a week, and takes just about a day to double distill to
get 180+ proof. I assume you have a good source for plenty of cold water,
and no neighbors who will complain about the smell...

On last thing, ever seen a still blow when it's doing the second run and is
full of hi proof ?....

Honestly if yer gonna make 'shine' you'd be better off selling it and buying
gas with the profit.. LOL... (oh and 2 days in charred oak makes mighty fine
sippin whisky)...

--.- Dave

"Karl Townsend" remove .NOT wrote in
message k.net...
Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car
will run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say 5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the
shop warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn
burner boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200
proof VBG




--
(©¿©) An apple a day keeps the doctor away.
Two apples a day gets the doctor's OK.
Five a day makes you a fruit grower like me.

Karl Townsend





  #31   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Laszlo Nemeth
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2006 08:32:10 -0700, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:

On Mon, 22 May 2006 22:20:25 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"wayne mak" quickly quoth:


There is a ton of info on the web and growing on this, sure would be nice to
save some cash and do just a little to help not fund the killers over seas.


You realize that we import only about 20% from OPEC countries, don't
you?



Great. So lets offset _that_ 20% first then.


easy don't drive 1 day a week. not quite 20%
but if everyone car pooled or stayed home 1
day a week it would make a difference.


laz
  #32   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Dave Hinz
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

On Tue, 23 May 2006 13:27:36 -0600, Laszlo Nemeth wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2006 08:32:10 -0700, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:


You realize that we import only about 20% from OPEC countries, don't
you?


Great. So lets offset _that_ 20% first then.


easy don't drive 1 day a week.


Yeah, easy. Except that I need to, you know, get to work. We've
brought up the 4x10 hour days (heh...instead of 5 of them...) which went
over like a fart in church.

not quite 20%
but if everyone car pooled or stayed home 1
day a week it would make a difference.


I think that at 3 bucks a gallon, people are conserving as much as they
already can.

  #33   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Dave Lyon
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine


"Dave August" wrote in message
. net...
The big problem is that to get the most alcohol out of the wort you need
plenty of sugar, about 1 pound per 10 gallons of wort. (don't ask how I
know). Buying/growing the corn isn't that hard, but you start to buy large
amounts of sugar and BATF will be on you in no time.


It's not illegal to make e85. If you take the time to get the license.


IIRC 5 gallons of 180+ proof is about 50 gallons of wort, normal (not fast
ferment) takes about a week, and takes just about a day to double distill

to
get 180+ proof. I assume you have a good source for plenty of cold water,
and no neighbors who will complain about the smell...

On last thing, ever seen a still blow when it's doing the second run and

is
full of hi proof ?....



You can hit 180 proof without a double distill. That cuts the time to just a
few hours depending on the volume you're making.


Honestly if yer gonna make 'shine' you'd be better off selling it and

buying
gas with the profit.. LOL... (oh and 2 days in charred oak makes mighty

fine
sippin whisky)...


That would be much more profitable, but you don't wanna get caught.

Here's an excelent site on making E85
http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/index.html
They even sell plans for a still.


  #34   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
wayne mak
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

Don't go to the 4 day longer hour deal, my wife did that and then the next
year they said she needed to go back to 5 days, the problem is now she works
the same hours per day as she did with 4 days. So she now works 11 hour days
5 days.

We ALL knew gas/fuel, prices/supplies weren't going to get better and did
very little. Both parties failed to do much or anything over teh past 25
years. We also went out and bought big cars, trucks, houses, boats what
ever. Test drive over half the new cars on the dealers lot today and they
all have amazing power. 0-60 times on mnay cars are damm good these days.
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 May 2006 13:27:36 -0600, Laszlo Nemeth
wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2006 08:32:10 -0700, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di
wrote:


You realize that we import only about 20% from OPEC countries, don't
you?


Great. So lets offset _that_ 20% first then.


easy don't drive 1 day a week.


Yeah, easy. Except that I need to, you know, get to work. We've
brought up the 4x10 hour days (heh...instead of 5 of them...) which went
over like a fart in church.

not quite 20%
but if everyone car pooled or stayed home 1
day a week it would make a difference.


I think that at 3 bucks a gallon, people are conserving as much as they
already can.



  #35   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Eide
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

Wow. That's a lot of driving. Good luck finding more ways to bill miles

Eide

"Gunner" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 23 May 2006 08:23:51 -0400, "Eide"
wrote:

What do you drive Gunner?


I drive a 1994 Mazda B3000 (rebadged Ford Ranger) with a rather small
V-6 engine in it. Freshly rebuilt.

Im also a self employed machine tool repair guy who drives 65,000
miles a year on average.

A typical day is 75-300 miles, of which only some of it is billable.

A half tank fill up 2 yrs ago was $13USD. Today its $35

Gunner


"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 22 May 2006 23:54:35 GMT, "Karl Townsend"
remove .NOT wrote:

Gas will soon be $3/gal. I live in corn country, its $2/bushel. My car
will
run on E85, that's 85% ethanol, 15% gas.

So can I buy/build a high efficiency fermenter and still that does, say
5
gallons a day? I'd run it all winter and use the waste heat to keep the
shop
warm. Seen any good proven designs? How about one that uses a corn
burner
boiler (readily purchased) as the heat source for the still?

BTW, I may need some quality control help to make sure its really 200
proof
VBG

Will soon be $3 a gallon? The cheapest Ive paid in the last 3 months
is $3.27 a gallon.

Im putting $30-40 in my gas tank EVERY DAY.

And it sucks. Badly

And we can thank the Left for not allowing more refineries to be
built, or more wells to be drilled.

Thanks assholes!!!


Gunner

"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33



"If thy pride is sorely vexed when others disparage your offering, be
as lamb's wool is to cold rain and the Gore-tex of Odin's raiment
is to gull**** in the gale, for thy angst shall vex them not at
all. Yea, they shall scorn thee all the more. Rejoice in
sharing what you have to share without expectation of adoration,
knowing that sharing your treasure does not diminish your treasure
but enriches it."

- Onni 1:33




  #36   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Mark Rand
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

On 23 May 2006 11:01:03 -0700, wrote:

This CAN be done, but on a small scale, you are going to be putting a
lot more energy into it that what the alcohol coming out of it will
give you. 200 proof takes special circumstances and a lot more energy
to attain. Also unnecessary if all you're going to do is burn the
stuff. About 180-190 is the best you can do with straight distillation
and you'll have to have a hell of a column and control to do it. If
you can get your inputs, heat, starch, water and yeast, for free, it
might be worth messing with. For corn, you need some method to convert
the starch to sugar, usually using an enzyme, before it can be
fermented. This stuff is old tried and true technology, you can find
descriptions of how it's done in chemical engineering texts. Around
the first oil crisis, there were a lot of articles in the
back-to-the-earth rags on ethanol production, might be a trip to the
library will turn up something.

In this country, BATFE WILL have a finger in any pie that includes
ethanol, there's exemptions for fuel production but you have to apply
for them and get approval before commencing anything and you WILL
produce and denature as they decree. Otherwise, it's a fast trip to
the federal pokey and a slow wait to get out. It's a tax thing,
penalties for shooting people are less. At one time, they used to have
some details on their web site on exempted alcohol production but when
they moved, it all changed. Might be worth googling up, though.

Stan



How about turning the job around...

Burn the corn to produce heat for the destructive distillation of the
cellulose in the cobs and stalks into methanol. No problem with the revenuers
since drinking methanol is a self limiting addiction, no bloody great
fermenting vessels and no smelly residues to get rid of. Would it work?


Mark Rand
RTFM
  #37   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Nick Hull
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:

On Tue, 23 May 2006 12:06:12 -0400, wayne mak
wrote:
20% is a BUNCH of money


Sure is. But at 3 bucks a gallon for gasoline, ethanol starts being
worth looking into. Like I say, it's not all of our imports, but if we
can stop giving money to people who are trying to kill us, that'll help.


You want to stop paying taxes to the govt?

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/
  #38   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Dave Lyon
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine



How about turning the job around...

Burn the corn to produce heat for the destructive distillation of the
cellulose in the cobs and stalks into methanol. No problem with the

revenuers
since drinking methanol is a self limiting addiction, no bloody great
fermenting vessels and no smelly residues to get rid of. Would it work?


Mark Rand
RTFM


From what I've read, it takes a special enzyme to convert cellulose into the
sugar needed. That enzyme is available, but not to the general public. I've
heard that in the next 10 years or so, we'll be making alcohol from switch
grass instead of corn.


  #39   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
wayne mak
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

From what I have read and seen on the news they are using 180 proof. ****
the oil industry, if this country could reduce imports by 10% that would hit
hard in some parts.
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 May 2006 18:23:07 GMT, Dave Lyon
wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...


Perhaps, but no reason to go for 200. And if it's wintertime, that
"waste heat" just heats your house so it's not wasted...


It's also untrue. That myth was started by one study that was
underwritten
by the oil industry.


What? (shock) You mean the oil company would spread FUD about a
competing technology? You can't be serious!

You do need to go for 200 proof if you're going to denature with
gasoline
(which seems to be the preferred method)


I'm not sure I believe that. When you put Heet into your gas tank, is
not the alcohol making the water harmless to your engine? What happens
if you burn, say, 75% ethanol with 25% water?



  #40   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Mark Rand
 
Posts: n/a
Default run car on moonshine

On Wed, 24 May 2006 13:47:41 GMT, "Dave Lyon" wrote:



How about turning the job around...

Burn the corn to produce heat for the destructive distillation of the
cellulose in the cobs and stalks into methanol. No problem with the

revenuers
since drinking methanol is a self limiting addiction, no bloody great
fermenting vessels and no smelly residues to get rid of. Would it work?


Mark Rand
RTFM


From what I've read, it takes a special enzyme to convert cellulose into the
sugar needed. That enzyme is available, but not to the general public. I've
heard that in the next 10 years or so, we'll be making alcohol from switch
grass instead of corn.


Wasn't talking about enzymes... If you heat cellulose enough in the absence of
oxygen (sawdust, paper, cotton, corn stalks/husks) then you end up with
charcoal, methanol and gunk. the methanol can be used as fuel and the rest can
be used to heat the still. Of course I did this 30 years ago at a time in my
life when I didn't use my brain for thinking, so I might be a bit hazy on the
economies of the reaction.


Mark Rand
RTFM
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