Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old March 31st 04, 07:30 AM
Jim Stewart
 
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Default Old Steel - New Steel

A couple of weeks ago at the recycling center, a
welder was unloading some 1/2" square steel bar.
I asked him if it was mild steel and he replied
"yes, old mild steel, the best" I've heard
references to "old steel" being better than "new
steel" and I've never understood what the difference
is.

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Old March 31st 04, 07:57 AM
Grant Erwin
 
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Default Old Steel - New Steel

Most steel made in this country now comes from melted-down cars, not
from mined iron ore. Such steel meets minimum specifications but you
may find anomalies like local hard spots (where a chromed ball bearing
was melted in for example). Many so-called "mild steels" today will
harden somewhat if heated and quenched strongly.

Maybe that's what he was talking about. - GWE

Jim Stewart wrote:
A couple of weeks ago at the recycling center, a
welder was unloading some 1/2" square steel bar.
I asked him if it was mild steel and he replied
"yes, old mild steel, the best" I've heard
references to "old steel" being better than "new
steel" and I've never understood what the difference
is.


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Old March 31st 04, 08:23 AM
Ed Huntress
 
Posts: n/a
Default Old Steel - New Steel

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...
Most steel made in this country now comes from melted-down cars, not
from mined iron ore. Such steel meets minimum specifications but you
may find anomalies like local hard spots (where a chromed ball bearing
was melted in for example). Many so-called "mild steels" today will
harden somewhat if heated and quenched strongly.

Maybe that's what he was talking about. - GWE


It depends on what you buy, Grant. If you buy AISI graded steel, it's
somewhat better today than it's ever been -- if it's made in the US, Europe,
or Japan (probably Australia, too, but I don't know how careful they are
with their grading of carbon steels).

The remelted scrap is used mostly in construction and other applications
that don't demand strict adherence to alloys, only to certain properties of
strength and elongation.

If you buy the junk in hardware stores, you may be getting anything.

Note the Jim's authority on old steel is a welder. He may have gotten stung
by some "mild" steel that was actually a construction grade. The weldability
of that stuff varies quite a bit.

Ed Huntress


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Old March 31st 04, 05:27 PM
Roy J
 
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Default Old Steel - New Steel

When you buy 10,000 pound rolls of cold rolled steel for
automobile fenders, the quality control is supurb, much better
than it ever was in the old days. If you buy merchant grade flat,
angle, and rebar from an electric furnace scrap melter, the
carbon and alloy content can vary wildly. Older bar came directly
from the steel mill, much more uniform.

We wiped out 3 blades on a horizontal bandsaw in an hour one day
on a process that we had done for several years. Problem was
traced down to ONE bar of 1/4"x2" flat stock that had a huge
carbon content, the HAZ was hard as a file.

Jim Stewart wrote:

A couple of weeks ago at the recycling center, a
welder was unloading some 1/2" square steel bar.
I asked him if it was mild steel and he replied
"yes, old mild steel, the best" I've heard
references to "old steel" being better than "new
steel" and I've never understood what the difference
is.

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Old March 31st 04, 07:34 PM
Offbreed
 
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Default Old Steel - New Steel

Grant Erwin wrote:

Most steel made in this country now comes from melted-down cars, not
from mined iron ore.


Is that what they are making crowbars from these days?


Such steel meets minimum specifications but you
may find anomalies like local hard spots (where a chromed ball bearing
was melted in for example).


Which would explain a little about why a crowbar I was cutting up for
a rock bar ate so many hacksaw blades.



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Old March 31st 04, 09:27 PM
Roy J
 
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Default Old Steel - New Steel

I would hope any self respecting crow bar would laugh at a
hacksaw!! It has to be something better than some 1018 forged to
shape.

Offbreed wrote:

Grant Erwin wrote:

Most steel made in this country now comes from melted-down cars, not
from mined iron ore.



Is that what they are making crowbars from these days?


Such steel meets minimum specifications but you
may find anomalies like local hard spots (where a chromed ball bearing
was melted in for example).



Which would explain a little about why a crowbar I was cutting up for a
rock bar ate so many hacksaw blades.

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Old March 31st 04, 10:48 PM
Offbreed
 
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Default Old Steel - New Steel

Roy J wrote:

I would hope any self respecting crow bar would laugh at a hacksaw!! It
has to be something better than some 1018 forged to shape.


Grinder threw yellow sparks with a tiny brooming at the end?

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Old April 1st 04, 07:08 AM
Roy J
 
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Default Old Steel - New Steel

Are you trying to make me look up the spark trail charts? The
brooming at the ends means carbon, don't know how much.

Offbreed wrote:

Roy J wrote:

I would hope any self respecting crow bar would laugh at a hacksaw!!
It has to be something better than some 1018 forged to shape.



Grinder threw yellow sparks with a tiny brooming at the end?

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Old April 1st 04, 07:45 AM
Martin H. Eastburn
 
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Default Old Steel - New Steel

Grant Erwin wrote:

Most steel made in this country now comes from melted-down cars, not
from mined iron ore. Such steel meets minimum specifications but you
may find anomalies like local hard spots (where a chromed ball bearing
was melted in for example). Many so-called "mild steels" today will
harden somewhat if heated and quenched strongly.

Maybe that's what he was talking about. - GWE

Jim Stewart wrote:

A couple of weeks ago at the recycling center, a
welder was unloading some 1/2" square steel bar.
I asked him if it was mild steel and he replied
"yes, old mild steel, the best" I've heard
references to "old steel" being better than "new
steel" and I've never understood what the difference
is.



http://www.designnews.com/article/CA405992?nid=2334
"As automakers work to improve both fuel efficiency and safety, they increasingly need to add some lean muscle to their vehicles.
Strong, lightweight structural components made from Advanced High Strength Steels (AHSS) may be just what the doctor ordered.

This diverse group of multiphase steels with high strain hardening rates generally offers yield and tensile strengths as least twice
as high as conventional stamping steels. Their tensile strenghts, for instance, start at roughly 500 MPa. So AHSS can certainly help
automakers cut weight of body structures without sacrificing strength. Yet the advanced steels do have some cost and manufacturing
barriers to overcome before they can more widely displace their lower-strength predecessors. The Great Designs in Steel seminar,
held last month in Livonia, MI, served as good progress report on these advanced steels.
"
and the text goes on to more and more info.

AHSS might be something to deal with someday.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

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Old April 1st 04, 08:27 AM
Ed Huntress
 
Posts: n/a
Default Old Steel - New Steel

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message
om...
Grant Erwin wrote:

Most steel made in this country now comes from melted-down cars, not
from mined iron ore. Such steel meets minimum specifications but you
may find anomalies like local hard spots (where a chromed ball bearing
was melted in for example). Many so-called "mild steels" today will
harden somewhat if heated and quenched strongly.

Maybe that's what he was talking about. - GWE

Jim Stewart wrote:

A couple of weeks ago at the recycling center, a
welder was unloading some 1/2" square steel bar.
I asked him if it was mild steel and he replied
"yes, old mild steel, the best" I've heard
references to "old steel" being better than "new
steel" and I've never understood what the difference
is.



http://www.designnews.com/article/CA405992?nid=2334
"As automakers work to improve both fuel efficiency and safety, they

increasingly need to add some lean muscle to their vehicles.
Strong, lightweight structural components made from Advanced High Strength

Steels (AHSS) may be just what the doctor ordered.

This diverse group of multiphase steels with high strain hardening rates

generally offers yield and tensile strengths as least twice
as high as conventional stamping steels. Their tensile strenghts, for

instance, start at roughly 500 MPa. So AHSS can certainly help
automakers cut weight of body structures without sacrificing strength. Yet

the advanced steels do have some cost and manufacturing
barriers to overcome before they can more widely displace their

lower-strength predecessors. The Great Designs in Steel seminar,
held last month in Livonia, MI, served as good progress report on these

advanced steels.
"
and the text goes on to more and more info.

AHSS might be something to deal with someday.


HSLA (high-strength, low-alloy) steels used in cars for the past 20 years
have already given the mini-mills a few challenges.

Ed Huntress




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