Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Jeff Wisnia
 
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Default OT-Neopost Postage Meter Inkjet Cartridges


Beacuse this newsgroup has proven itself to have the most intelligent
and resourceful posters in all of usenet, I thought I'd take a shot at
ranting a bit and asking a question here.

We rent a Neopost Model IJ25 postage meter for our office use, and they
are raping us when we need to replace the red inkjet cartridge which
prints the postage and our logo on everything we mail. I got a "low ink"
warning on the postage meter display yesterday and called to order
another cartridge. Last time, about 6 months ago, the price with
shipping was about $65, this time it was up to $85.

To add insult to injury, Neopost has arranged for their inkjet cartridge
to "run out" 6 months after the date it's installed, even if we only
printed postage on jsut a few envelopes during that time, and it also
"runs out" after a predetermined number of impressions, even though
there's plenty of ink left inside it.

I busted open the last dead cartridge and found what I expected inside,
a standard looking inkjet cartridge with HP's name and logo on it, along
with an IC chip which must be what's letting Neopost laugh all the way
to the bank at their customers' expense.

I've asked a few online sellers of inkjet cartridge refilling stuff
whether they can help, without any luck thus far.

Anyone here encountered this and figured out a way to get around it
without going back to licking postage stamps?

I thought there's fair trade laws in the US which keep manufacturers
from forcing their customers to buy supplies only from them and also
keep them from putting "poison pills" in stuff. But maybe I'm wrong
about that, and because the USPS is involved Neopost can argue that the
gummint is making them do it that way to make sure the imprints come out
nice and clear.

Neopost also stuck it to their customers the last time the postage rates
went up (January '06?). We had to pay them $100 to get a smart card to
stick in a slot and reprogram the weighing scale so it would calculate
the (new) correct postage. Those cards must have cost them less that
$3.00 each to make and mail out. What a windfall for them, Shoosh!

I've asked around and it appears that Pitney Bowes isn't much better in
that regard, they offer fair meter rental rates and then gouge their
customers for supplies which only they sell. Too bad, ten or fifteen
years ago the electromechanical Pitney Bowes meter we rented used ink
saturated felt rollers and metal "type". I could just paint some more
ink on those rollers when needed, using a bottle of red ink Pitney Bowes
sold me for less than $10, and which lasted us for many years.

End of rant on a rainy day...

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Life is like a sewer -- what you get out of it depends on what you put
into it."
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Don Bruder
 
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Default OT-Neopost Postage Meter Inkjet Cartridges

In article ,
Jeff Wisnia wrote:

I've asked around and it appears that Pitney Bowes isn't much better in
that regard, they offer fair meter rental rates and then gouge their
customers for supplies which only they sell. Too bad, ten or fifteen
years ago the electromechanical Pitney Bowes meter we rented used ink
saturated felt rollers and metal "type". I could just paint some more
ink on those rollers when needed, using a bottle of red ink Pitney Bowes
sold me for less than $10, and which lasted us for many years.

End of rant on a rainy day...

Jeff


It's "inkjet printer syndrome" taken to the next level - Practically
give away the printer, then charge out the wazzoo for the consumables
(cartridges) that only *YOU* sell. It's a great scam. And unfortunately
for "Joe You And Me", there's not a damn thing that can be done about
it, legally or otherwise, aside from donig the "just say no" thing. You
wanna gripe about the prices/fairness/etc? Go for it. Just be prepared
to be completely ignored by the folks setting the policies, charging the
prices, etc. I'll do everything but give you a written guarantee that
you'll get *EXACTLY* nowhere. One of the benefits of having a monopoly,
doncha know... "Don't like it? Tough! Suck it up anyway, 'cause you
don't have a choice! Now give us your money and shut up."

As for the "poison pill" chip in the cartridge, you're going to be
stonewalled with "Quality assurance" rhetoric along the lines of "USPS
specifies that the image *MUST* appear like so, *OR ELSE*, and we refuse
to take any chances!"

So you ask "why's it still full of ink, but refusing to print 6 months
later?"

"Because if the cartridge is that old, it's likely empty, or worse,
likely to wreck the image! We're not taking any chances! Don't like
that? Tough. Give us your money and shut up."

--
Don Bruder - - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd for more info
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Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Bruce L. Bergman
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT-Neopost Postage Meter Inkjet Cartridges

On Sat, 13 May 2006 15:37:13 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

We rent a Neopost Model IJ25 postage meter for our office use, and they
are raping us when we need to replace the red inkjet cartridge which
prints the postage and our logo on everything we mail. I got a "low ink"
warning on the postage meter display yesterday and called to order
another cartridge. Last time, about 6 months ago, the price with
shipping was about $65, this time it was up to $85.

To add insult to injury, Neopost has arranged for their inkjet cartridge
to "run out" 6 months after the date it's installed, even if we only
printed postage on jsut a few envelopes during that time, and it also
"runs out" after a predetermined number of impressions, even though
there's plenty of ink left inside it.

I busted open the last dead cartridge and found what I expected inside,
a standard looking inkjet cartridge with HP's name and logo on it, along
with an IC chip which must be what's letting Neopost laugh all the way
to the bank at their customers' expense.

I've asked a few online sellers of inkjet cartridge refilling stuff
whether they can help, without any luck thus far.


An old dodge for HP printers was they are not "monitoring the ink
supply" as much as running a per-page countdown timer on the
cartridge. And in the case of the postage meter printers, they put a
6-month expiry on as well as a count to empty. This is allegedly so
they don't have "printing problems" with old dried out cartridges, but
in practice it's planned obsolescence and a great way to drive
consumables sales.

The old dodge for using refilled cartridges with the HP printers was
to have a bunch of old cartridges around, since the cartridge serial
number memory was kept in a simple First In First Out buffer. If you
tried swapping between two cartridges, it would remember that far back
and insist both were "empty".

But if you cycled a magic number of separate "full" (unknown serial
number) cartridges through (IIRC either 3 or 6) you would flush
cartridge #1's serial out of the buffer. Then you refill cartridge
#1, stick it back in, the printer thinks that serial number is a new
cartridge, and you're good to go.

If you kept the old cartridges for the meter you might try this...
Myself, I gave up inkjets for laser long ago. Slightly higher
up-front investment, outweighed by the far lower per-page cost.

But you do have to compare between lasers now also, some of the
lower-end units are way out of line on the cartridge prices (and are
shipped with half-empty "starter" toner cartridges) to try to get back
in the "make more money selling the consumables" pricing model.

Anyone here encountered this and figured out a way to get around it
without going back to licking postage stamps?


Licking? I thought Self Stick Stamps was the next big thing... ;-P
They make semi-automatic dispensers for self-stick coil postage
stamps, Google on "Stamp EZ".

Or buy the old-style mucilage coil stamps and find an old Postaffix
stamp dispenser - in one quick push it squirts two drops of water onto
the envelope from a little water tank, advances a stamp from the roll,
cuts it off, and stomps it down on the envelope. We used to fire off
weekly 1,000 piece postcard mailings with them all the time -
Kerchunk, Kerchunk, Kerchunk...

We looked into postage meters a few times - and using a Small
Business budget model we always went back to the Postaffix. Unless
you churn enough postage through the machine every month where you are
actually running the ink cartridges dry, and you or an employee are
spending half the day just handling the mailing duties, it simply
isn't worth the meter leasing and consumables costs.

I thought there's fair trade laws in the US which keep manufacturers
from forcing their customers to buy supplies only from them and also
keep them from putting "poison pills" in stuff. But maybe I'm wrong
about that, and because the USPS is involved Neopost can argue that the
gummint is making them do it that way to make sure the imprints come out
nice and clear.


You don't think the gummint folks that worked out the deal to bypass
those 'fair trade' rules were in cahoots with P-B and Neopost, getting
favors and kickbacks, now do you? ^_^

Hell, look at the California Insurance Commissioner, who is supposed
to act as a consumer watchdog - half the time, the guy worked as an
insurance industry executive before he gets elected, and goes back
into the insurance industry after he leaves office. Now whose side do
you think he's REALLY on?

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.
  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
axolotl
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT-Neopost Postage Meter Inkjet Cartridges

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

I got a "low ink"
warning on the postage meter display yesterday and called to order
another cartridge. Last time, about 6 months ago, the price with
shipping was about $65, this time it was up to $85.

To add insult to injury, Neopost has arranged for their inkjet cartridge
to "run out" 6 months after the date it's installed, even if we only
printed postage on jsut a few envelopes during that time, and it also
"runs out" after a predetermined number of impressions, even though
there's plenty of ink left inside it.


HP's revenue enhancement features. Here is one refiller's hack.

http://www.misterinkjet.com/hp56reset.htm

Kevin Gallimore

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http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Tom Gardner
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT-Neopost Postage Meter Inkjet Cartridges


"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

Beacuse this newsgroup has proven itself to have the most intelligent and
resourceful posters in all of usenet, I thought I'd take a shot at ranting
a bit and asking a question here.


snip

How about something like:
http://www.stamps.com/learn-more/pos...tercomparison/

I got really fed-up with the postage meter rip-off years ago, we lick
stamps! I refuse to pay even the lower fees from places like "Stamps.com"
even though it's a better deal than a meter. You might scan some stamps and
just print as many as you need.




  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Jeff Wisnia
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT-Neopost Postage Meter Inkjet Cartridges

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
On Sat, 13 May 2006 15:37:13 -0400, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:


We rent a Neopost Model IJ25 postage meter for our office use, and they
are raping us when we need to replace the red inkjet cartridge which
prints the postage and our logo on everything we mail. I got a "low ink"
warning on the postage meter display yesterday and called to order
another cartridge. Last time, about 6 months ago, the price with
shipping was about $65, this time it was up to $85.

To add insult to injury, Neopost has arranged for their inkjet cartridge
to "run out" 6 months after the date it's installed, even if we only
printed postage on jsut a few envelopes during that time, and it also
"runs out" after a predetermined number of impressions, even though
there's plenty of ink left inside it.

I busted open the last dead cartridge and found what I expected inside,
a standard looking inkjet cartridge with HP's name and logo on it, along
with an IC chip which must be what's letting Neopost laugh all the way
to the bank at their customers' expense.

I've asked a few online sellers of inkjet cartridge refilling stuff
whether they can help, without any luck thus far.



An old dodge for HP printers was they are not "monitoring the ink
supply" as much as running a per-page countdown timer on the
cartridge. And in the case of the postage meter printers, they put a
6-month expiry on as well as a count to empty. This is allegedly so
they don't have "printing problems" with old dried out cartridges, but
in practice it's planned obsolescence and a great way to drive
consumables sales.

The old dodge for using refilled cartridges with the HP printers was
to have a bunch of old cartridges around, since the cartridge serial
number memory was kept in a simple First In First Out buffer. If you
tried swapping between two cartridges, it would remember that far back
and insist both were "empty".

But if you cycled a magic number of separate "full" (unknown serial
number) cartridges through (IIRC either 3 or 6) you would flush
cartridge #1's serial out of the buffer. Then you refill cartridge
#1, stick it back in, the printer thinks that serial number is a new
cartridge, and you're good to go.

If you kept the old cartridges for the meter you might try this...
Myself, I gave up inkjets for laser long ago. Slightly higher
up-front investment, outweighed by the far lower per-page cost.


At about one cartridge every 8 months or so, It'll take me quite a while
to accumulate three old ones to try and with my luck it'll need six or
more. G

But you do have to compare between lasers now also, some of the
lower-end units are way out of line on the cartridge prices (and are
shipped with half-empty "starter" toner cartridges) to try to get back
in the "make more money selling the consumables" pricing model.


Yes, we have five laser printers in the office, all Samsungs using the
same toner cartridge. I do refill those cartridges, I can usually do
that to them twice before the drums start to give out, about the time
they're ready to run out of the last refill.

I bought a tool for about ten bucks which is just a little soldering
iron with something that looks like a 3/8" copper sweat pipe cap mounted
where the soldering bit would be. The hot edge of the cap melts a neat
round hole through the plastic wall of the cartridges without producing
any plastic chips to foul thing up. I think it costs me about $3-$4 per
refill, buying toner on the web.


Anyone here encountered this and figured out a way to get around it
without going back to licking postage stamps?



Licking? I thought Self Stick Stamps was the next big thing... ;-P


I was just setting myself up for telling the story about the time the
Ruskys came out with a series of postage stamps with Josef Stalin's
image on them. There were numerous complaints about the stamps not
sticking to envelopes and upon investigation the Russian postal
authorities discovered the reason.....People were spitting on the wrong
side of the stamps.

They make semi-automatic dispensers for self-stick coil postage
stamps, Google on "Stamp EZ".

Or buy the old-style mucilage coil stamps and find an old Postaffix
stamp dispenser - in one quick push it squirts two drops of water onto
the envelope from a little water tank, advances a stamp from the roll,
cuts it off, and stomps it down on the envelope. We used to fire off
weekly 1,000 piece postcard mailings with them all the time -
Kerchunk, Kerchunk, Kerchunk...

We looked into postage meters a few times - and using a Small
Business budget model we always went back to the Postaffix. Unless
you churn enough postage through the machine every month where you are
actually running the ink cartridges dry, and you or an employee are
spending half the day just handling the mailing duties, it simply
isn't worth the meter leasing and consumables costs.


Prolly correct, but the two lovely ladies who do most of the mail
stamping in our little company have been with us a long time and are
used to using a postage meter with its calculating scale and not having
to fiddle with stamps and secure them from pilferage.

I'm certain if I tried to shift us back to stamps It'd be received as
well as my bringing them some bulky sweaters in the winter and turning
the thermostat down to 50 F. I'd further convince them that Jack Benny
had nothing on me.

Plus, we need postage amounts above 39 cents on quite a bit of our mail
which runs over the weight or size that will go for 39 cents.

We refill our meter with about $200 of postage a month, and I'd guess
that'd equate to about 400 impressions a month, or 20 per work day. I've
got a feeling that if we used "real stamps" there'd be some money wasted
through sticking more postage value than required on a fair amount of stuff.



I thought there's fair trade laws in the US which keep manufacturers


from forcing their customers to buy supplies only from them and also


keep them from putting "poison pills" in stuff. But maybe I'm wrong
about that, and because the USPS is involved Neopost can argue that the
gummint is making them do it that way to make sure the imprints come out
nice and clear.



You don't think the gummint folks that worked out the deal to bypass
those 'fair trade' rules were in cahoots with P-B and Neopost, getting
favors and kickbacks, now do you? ^_^

Hell, look at the California Insurance Commissioner, who is supposed
to act as a consumer watchdog - half the time, the guy worked as an
insurance industry executive before he gets elected, and goes back
into the insurance industry after he leaves office. Now whose side do
you think he's REALLY on?

-- Bruce --


Last comment on mailing....I recently discovered that the USPS regs
require more than 39 cents postage on an envelope if it's square rather
than rectangular. Makes sense when you figure that automatic handling
equipment would have a pretty hard time properly orienting a square.

Jeff (Still raining cats and dogs here. I just came in from outside
where I stepped in a poodle.)

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Life is like a sewer -- what you get out of it depends on what you put
into it."
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Bruce L. Bergman
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT-Neopost Postage Meter Inkjet Cartridges

On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:06:28 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...

Beacuse this newsgroup has proven itself to have the most intelligent and
resourceful posters in all of usenet, I thought I'd take a shot at ranting
a bit and asking a question here.


snip

How about something like:
http://www.stamps.com/learn-more/pos...tercomparison/

I got really fed-up with the postage meter rip-off years ago, we lick
stamps! I refuse to pay even the lower fees from places like "Stamps.com"
even though it's a better deal than a meter. You might scan some stamps and
just print as many as you need.


If you try to copy and reuse postage, be prepared to get a very
unwanted visit from the Postal Inspection Service.

Those Stamps.com fancy barcodes are a serial number and check codes
for that particular 'stamp', just like the serial number and 'check
features' on a twenty dollar bill are a way to verify authenticity and
trace it. And they do track them - the high speed scanners on the
sorters make it easy.

And just like the Secret Service and counterfeit Twenties, if they
see the same stamp serial number come through more than once they will
be VERY interested in tracking it to the source.

-- Bruce --

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Tom Gardner
 
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Default OT-Neopost Postage Meter Inkjet Cartridges


"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
If you try to copy and reuse postage, be prepared to get a very
unwanted visit from the Postal Inspection Service.

Those Stamps.com fancy barcodes are a serial number and check codes
for that particular 'stamp', just like the serial number and 'check
features' on a twenty dollar bill are a way to verify authenticity and
trace it. And they do track them - the high speed scanners on the
sorters make it easy.

And just like the Secret Service and counterfeit Twenties, if they
see the same stamp serial number come through more than once they will
be VERY interested in tracking it to the source.

-- Bruce --


Just kidding. I asked a cousin/mail-person if the PO raised rates to cover
storage costs and she got all ****y and said: "How else can you send a
letter from New York to California for just a penny a day?"


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Bruce L. Bergman
 
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Default OT-Neopost Postage Meter Inkjet Cartridges

On Sun, 14 May 2006 04:10:42 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:
"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote:


If you try to copy and reuse postage, be prepared to get a very
unwanted visit from the Postal Inspection Service.


Just kidding.


I figured you were. ;-)

But I thought I'd better clarify it for those out there who can't
think for themselves - there are a few induhviduals that hear stuff
like that and think "Gee, what a great idea!"

I asked a cousin/mail-person if the PO raised rates to cover
storage costs and she got all ****y and said: "How else can you send a
letter from New York to California for just a penny a day?"


Actually, the postal rate increase is to fund their secret spamhaus
works in Russia and China. The way they figure it, if they can make
E-mail totally unusable by filling our In-boxes with offers for fake
pills, Canadian Pharmacies, offshore gambling & bookmaking, sex, and
enlargement products, people will give up and start mailing paper
letters again. And so far it's working....

(Is this how rumors get started?) ;-)

-- Bruce --

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Mike Berger
 
Posts: n/a
Default OT-Neopost Postage Meter Inkjet Cartridges

After terrible service and price increases from Pitney Bowes, I
did some research and chose the Francotype Postalia machine. It
uses a ribbon rather than ink cartridge. The machine is well made
and reliable, the ribbons last a long time, and they don't expire.
The cost of ribbons was substantially less per impression than the
cost of running a Pitney Bowes machine with ink cartridge.

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

We rent a Neopost Model IJ25 postage meter for our office use, and they
are raping us when we need to replace the red inkjet cartridge which
prints the postage and our logo on everything we mail. I got a "low ink"
warning on the postage meter display yesterday and called to order
another cartridge. Last time, about 6 months ago, the price with
shipping was about $65, this time it was up to $85.

To add insult to injury, Neopost has arranged for their inkjet cartridge
to "run out" 6 months after the date it's installed, even if we only
printed postage on jsut a few envelopes during that time, and it also
"runs out" after a predetermined number of impressions, even though
there's plenty of ink left inside it.



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Mike Berger
 
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Default OT-Neopost Postage Meter Inkjet Cartridges

Just peel them off the backing paper and you don't need to lick them.

Tom Gardner wrote:

I got really fed-up with the postage meter rip-off years ago, we lick
stamps!

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