Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default fire proofing shop

I have built a two story 30' x 40' stick framed shop. The main floor
is separated into two sections, one which I plan to insulate, houses my
machine tools, the other I use for welding, car repair etc. Niether
area is panelled yet and I tying to decide how I should go about it.
My current idea for the welding area is to cover the lower 48" with
cement board ($30 for a 4 X 8 sheet) and the remainder with Aspenite
covered in flame retardent paint ($11 for a 4 x 8 sheet). I do not
want to use drywall because I do not want to tape it and it will get
all bashed up. Does anyone have an opinion on the flame retardent
paint?

stan

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Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
 
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Default fire proofing shop


wrote in message
oups.com...
I have built a two story 30' x 40' stick framed shop. The main floor
is separated into two sections, one which I plan to insulate, houses my
machine tools, the other I use for welding, car repair etc. Niether
area is panelled yet and I tying to decide how I should go about it.
My current idea for the welding area is to cover the lower 48" with
cement board ($30 for a 4 X 8 sheet) and the remainder with Aspenite
covered in flame retardent paint ($11 for a 4 x 8 sheet). I do not
want to use drywall because I do not want to tape it and it will get
all bashed up. Does anyone have an opinion on the flame retardent
paint?


So called "intumescent paints" protect fairly well, but not for protracted
exposure. They have a 'bubbling' agent (usually sodium
silicate/metasilicate) that forms a bubbly foam layer on the surface when
heat is applied. Because the silicate bubbles are in large percentage
glass, they protect by forming a layer of heat-resistant insulation when
fire hits the painted object.

They aren't a silver bullet, but can greatly lengthen the exposure time
before a wooden member becomes fully involved in the fire.

If the manufacturer doesn't list the coating as being of the intumescent
variety, I wouldn't trust its ability to resist flame for very long.

LLoyd


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Tom Wait
 
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Default fire proofing shop



Use 5/8" type X drywall and top it with FRP paneling. Don't bother to
tape the drywall and offset the seams of the FRP from the drywall seams.
All fire rated, durable and fully washable as well.

Pete C.


In my jurisdiction type X rock needs to be taped to meet code and presumably
to keep the fire away from the studs. I would rock with at least one layer
of 5/8" X D/W,fire tape the whole wall, finish tape from 4'AFF to the
ceiling and run 1/4" tempered masonite along the wall sideways for impact
protection. FRP or glass board would be nice but costs about $24.00 for a
4X8 sheet, ouch! There is another plastic type panel available, I think its
vinyl, at about $8 a sheet. I'm going to investigate that to protect the
walls in my bluing room.

--
Tom Wait
Barton Rifle Shop
1805 Barton Ave Suite #9
West Bend, Wisconsin 53090
(262) 306-RIFL (7435)


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Pete C.
 
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Default fire proofing shop

Tom Wait wrote:


Use 5/8" type X drywall and top it with FRP paneling. Don't bother to
tape the drywall and offset the seams of the FRP from the drywall seams.
All fire rated, durable and fully washable as well.

Pete C.


In my jurisdiction type X rock needs to be taped to meet code and presumably
to keep the fire away from the studs. I would rock with at least one layer
of 5/8" X D/W,fire tape the whole wall, finish tape from 4'AFF to the
ceiling and run 1/4" tempered masonite along the wall sideways for impact
protection. FRP or glass board would be nice but costs about $24.00 for a
4X8 sheet, ouch! There is another plastic type panel available, I think its
vinyl, at about $8 a sheet. I'm going to investigate that to protect the
walls in my bluing room.

--
Tom Wait
Barton Rifle Shop
1805 Barton Ave Suite #9
West Bend, Wisconsin 53090
(262) 306-RIFL (7435)


Yes, the FRP is rather expensive. In one place I know of they did the 4'
high guard section in a high abuse area with 1/8" AL diamond plate.
Pretty darned expensive, but holds up well to palette jack abuse.

Pete C.


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Bruce L. Bergman
 
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Default fire proofing shop

On 11 May 2006 11:13:15 -0700, wrote:

I have built a two story 30' x 40' stick framed shop. The main floor
is separated into two sections, one which I plan to insulate, houses my
machine tools, the other I use for welding, car repair etc. Niether
area is panelled yet and I tying to decide how I should go about it.
My current idea for the welding area is to cover the lower 48" with
cement board ($30 for a 4 X 8 sheet) and the remainder with Aspenite
covered in flame retardent paint ($11 for a 4 x 8 sheet). I do not
want to use drywall because I do not want to tape it and it will get
all bashed up. Does anyone have an opinion on the flame retardent
paint?


If you want true fireproofing, there's nothing better than good old
gypsum drywall. Use 5/8" installed properly, with fire rated doors
and closers and no unprotected penetrations, gets you a two hour rated
firewall. Unless you are WAY out in the sticks, the Fire Department
can get there before it spreads.

Rather than spend a lot of money on the cement board I'd drywall the
entire room in plain 1/2", tape the joints - it doesn't have to be
three coats all sanded down and pretty, but I would still mud over the
screws and one coat over the joints, a fast sand to knock the high
spots down, and now you are fireproof. Hit it with one heavy coat of
PVA Drywall Primer/Sealer so any liquids that make it through don't
soak in and stain or wreck the drywall.

And then for armor against abuse panel over the top of the drywall
walls with 1/4" or better plywood or hardboard. Screw it to the studs
like the drywall, finish the corners with simple pine molding, and
coat with the fire retardant paint to keep little sparks from
sticking. And if you manage to dent it, you change a sheet.

And if anyone ever decides to build a new bigger shop and turn the
old shop into a guest house, it's mostly done. Just strip the
plywood, patch the nail holes, and give the joints a second coat. Or
fill the big divots and hit it with the spray texture gun, the spatter
texture hides a lot of little sins.

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.
  #8   Report Post  
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RoyJ
 
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Default fire proofing shop

What Bruce said except use 5/8" rather than 1/2" only costs about $.08 a
square foot more, gives the code level fire protection you want. A 30' x
8' wall in fire code rated rock is only an extra $20

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
On 11 May 2006 11:13:15 -0700, wrote:


I have built a two story 30' x 40' stick framed shop. The main floor
is separated into two sections, one which I plan to insulate, houses my
machine tools, the other I use for welding, car repair etc. Niether
area is panelled yet and I tying to decide how I should go about it.
My current idea for the welding area is to cover the lower 48" with
cement board ($30 for a 4 X 8 sheet) and the remainder with Aspenite
covered in flame retardent paint ($11 for a 4 x 8 sheet). I do not
want to use drywall because I do not want to tape it and it will get
all bashed up. Does anyone have an opinion on the flame retardent
paint?



If you want true fireproofing, there's nothing better than good old
gypsum drywall. Use 5/8" installed properly, with fire rated doors
and closers and no unprotected penetrations, gets you a two hour rated
firewall. Unless you are WAY out in the sticks, the Fire Department
can get there before it spreads.

Rather than spend a lot of money on the cement board I'd drywall the
entire room in plain 1/2", tape the joints - it doesn't have to be
three coats all sanded down and pretty, but I would still mud over the
screws and one coat over the joints, a fast sand to knock the high
spots down, and now you are fireproof. Hit it with one heavy coat of
PVA Drywall Primer/Sealer so any liquids that make it through don't
soak in and stain or wreck the drywall.

And then for armor against abuse panel over the top of the drywall
walls with 1/4" or better plywood or hardboard. Screw it to the studs
like the drywall, finish the corners with simple pine molding, and
coat with the fire retardant paint to keep little sparks from
sticking. And if you manage to dent it, you change a sheet.

And if anyone ever decides to build a new bigger shop and turn the
old shop into a guest house, it's mostly done. Just strip the
plywood, patch the nail holes, and give the joints a second coat. Or
fill the big divots and hit it with the spray texture gun, the spatter
texture hides a lot of little sins.

-- Bruce --

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DanG
 
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Default fire proofing shop

As others have said, use drywall. If you don't know how or don't
want to tape, hire it done or use fire tape:
http://www.eztapingsystem.com/fire_tape.htm

You can install a layer of wafer board under the drywall. This
will provide an abuse resistant wall which will allow you to
fasten screws, cabinets, tool racks, etc anywhere you want.
Cement board (Durock, Wonder Board) will not give you a very
useable wall surface and would require taping or sealing to
protect the studs in a fire. I'm not sure what aspenite is. I
wouldn't spend the money on intumescent paint. How are you
protecting the second floor? Fires go up long before they go
sideways.
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




wrote in message
oups.com...
I have built a two story 30' x 40' stick framed shop. The main
floor
is separated into two sections, one which I plan to insulate,
houses my
machine tools, the other I use for welding, car repair etc.
Niether
area is panelled yet and I tying to decide how I should go about
it.
My current idea for the welding area is to cover the lower 48"
with
cement board ($30 for a 4 X 8 sheet) and the remainder with
Aspenite
covered in flame retardent paint ($11 for a 4 x 8 sheet). I do
not
want to use drywall because I do not want to tape it and it will
get
all bashed up. Does anyone have an opinion on the flame
retardent
paint?

stan



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Default fire proofing shop

Hi Pete

Thanks for the response, what is FRP paneling?

stan

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Hi Bruce

Upon reflection I think you are right. I hate the idea of all the
plaster dust around my machines, but I will just have to tarp
everything up. Part of my problem is that I haven't gotten the framing
or electrical inspections done yet. What I should really do is do the
work required to pass the inspections first (get engineering drawings
stamped for the gambrel roof framing, make the stairs to the top floor
etc.)

stan

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jgandalf
 
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Default fire proofing shop

Anthony wrote:

Make sure to put down some industrial rubber baseboard, and silicon the
crack to the floor.


Ouch, my ass hurts just thinking about that! g

Joe



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jgandalf
 
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Default fire proofing shop

wrote:
I have built a two story 30' x 40' stick framed shop. The main floor
is separated into two sections, one which I plan to insulate, houses my
machine tools, the other I use for welding, car repair etc. Niether
area is panelled yet and I tying to decide how I should go about it.
My current idea for the welding area is to cover the lower 48" with
cement board ($30 for a 4 X 8 sheet) and the remainder with Aspenite
covered in flame retardent paint ($11 for a 4 x 8 sheet). I do not
want to use drywall because I do not want to tape it and it will get
all bashed up. Does anyone have an opinion on the flame retardent
paint?

stan


Others have recommended drywall. I hate taping/sanding, so in my 2
story garage/shop I'm gonna do plaster. With a skim-coat system, the
"lath" is basically drywall (with a blue paper that holds plaster
better). You screw it onto the studs just like drywall and tape with a
fiberglass-mesh, self-adhesive tape. I plan to apply the skim coat and
then smooth it out moderately well, and paint it. No need to sand, and
the wall will have a trowelled stucco look to it. A bonus to this
method is that plaster is so much harder (and dent-resistant) than
drywall with joint compound. Properly smoothed plaster is very hard
work, though, 'cause you have to wait until the plaster is set stiff,
then *lean* into it with the trowel to get that nice smooth finish. My
method requires a lot less work, and very little skill, and the result
should look good (at least that's the plan). I should be starting it in
about a month.

I also plan to use cement board (Hardi Panel) for the bottom 4' in the
garage bays, just to resist abuse.

As for fire resistance, you may notice that many (most?) fire-rated
safes use regular gypsum board as the fireproofing material.

Joe

  #17   Report Post  
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Martin H. Eastburn
 
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Default fire proofing shop

Pete C might have it - but there are drywalls that are used as firewalls between
shops (garages) and the house, and behind wood stoves...

It isn't cement wall - but it is a fire rated wall. Talk to the local lumber yard
and see what they have.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member


Pete C. wrote:
wrote:

I have built a two story 30' x 40' stick framed shop. The main floor
is separated into two sections, one which I plan to insulate, houses my
machine tools, the other I use for welding, car repair etc. Niether
area is panelled yet and I tying to decide how I should go about it.
My current idea for the welding area is to cover the lower 48" with
cement board ($30 for a 4 X 8 sheet) and the remainder with Aspenite
covered in flame retardent paint ($11 for a 4 x 8 sheet). I do not
want to use drywall because I do not want to tape it and it will get
all bashed up. Does anyone have an opinion on the flame retardent
paint?

stan



Use 5/8" type X drywall and top it with FRP paneling. Don't bother to
tape the drywall and offset the seams of the FRP from the drywall seams.
All fire rated, durable and fully washable as well.

Pete C.


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Default fire proofing shop

Thanks for the link, I will see if this is available in Canada.

stan



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Hi

Any information related to the topic is useful as far as I am
concerned.

stan

  #22   Report Post  
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ATP*
 
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Default fire proofing shop


wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi Bruce

Upon reflection I think you are right. I hate the idea of all the
plaster dust around my machines, but I will just have to tarp
everything up. Part of my problem is that I haven't gotten the framing
or electrical inspections done yet. What I should really do is do the
work required to pass the inspections first (get engineering drawings
stamped for the gambrel roof framing, make the stairs to the top floor
etc.)

stan


Dust from cutting cement (wonderboard) type panels would be even worse.


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ATP*
 
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Default fire proofing shop


wrote in message
oups.com...
I have built a two story 30' x 40' stick framed shop. The main floor
is separated into two sections, one which I plan to insulate, houses my
machine tools, the other I use for welding, car repair etc. Niether
area is panelled yet and I tying to decide how I should go about it.
My current idea for the welding area is to cover the lower 48" with
cement board ($30 for a 4 X 8 sheet) and the remainder with Aspenite
covered in flame retardent paint ($11 for a 4 x 8 sheet). I do not
want to use drywall because I do not want to tape it and it will get
all bashed up. Does anyone have an opinion on the flame retardent
paint?

stan


We had to coat some columns with a fire retardant paint about four years
ago. Got the stuff from Sherwin-Williams, it was a special order and not
cheap. Very heavy bodied paint, rather difficult to work with even for an
experienced painter.


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On Sat, 13 May 2006 22:20:38 -0400, "ATP*"
wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Bruce

Upon reflection I think you are right. I hate the idea of all the
plaster dust around my machines, but I will just have to tarp
everything up. Part of my problem is that I haven't gotten the framing
or electrical inspections done yet. What I should really do is do the
work required to pass the inspections first (get engineering drawings
stamped for the gambrel roof framing, make the stairs to the top floor
etc.)

stan


Dust from cutting cement (wonderboard) type panels would be even worse.


Had a guy help me hang, tape and finish th' sheetrock in th' kids room
last summer. He never sanded th' mud, instead he used a damp sponge
to smooth it prior to paint. He said it doesn't matter how long it's
been dried, years even, and it still works. Clean up was a breeze.

Snarl

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Tom Wait
 
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Default fire proofing shop


wrote in message
news
On Sat, 13 May 2006 22:20:38 -0400, "ATP*"
wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Bruce

Upon reflection I think you are right. I hate the idea of all the
plaster dust around my machines, but I will just have to tarp
everything up. Part of my problem is that I haven't gotten the framing
or electrical inspections done yet. What I should really do is do the
work required to pass the inspections first (get engineering drawings
stamped for the gambrel roof framing, make the stairs to the top floor
etc.)

stan


Dust from cutting cement (wonderboard) type panels would be even worse.


Had a guy help me hang, tape and finish th' sheetrock in th' kids room
last summer. He never sanded th' mud, instead he used a damp sponge
to smooth it prior to paint. He said it doesn't matter how long it's
been dried, years even, and it still works. Clean up was a breeze.

Snarl

I've heard that trick. I tried it and didn't like it. The sponge is not a
clean straight edge. It left a lot of marks, but probably OK for a shop
wall. A good (pro) taper/finisher does very little sanding. A smooth finish
is accomplished with the knife.
Tom




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Default fire proofing shop

On Sun, 14 May 2006 19:02:12 GMT, "Tom Wait"
wrote:

wrote in message
news
On Sat, 13 May 2006 22:20:38 -0400, "ATP*"
wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Bruce

Upon reflection I think you are right. I hate the idea of all the
plaster dust around my machines, but I will just have to tarp
everything up. Part of my problem is that I haven't gotten the framing
or electrical inspections done yet. What I should really do is do the
work required to pass the inspections first (get engineering drawings
stamped for the gambrel roof framing, make the stairs to the top floor
etc.)

stan

Dust from cutting cement (wonderboard) type panels would be even worse.


Had a guy help me hang, tape and finish th' sheetrock in th' kids room
last summer. He never sanded th' mud, instead he used a damp sponge
to smooth it prior to paint. He said it doesn't matter how long it's
been dried, years even, and it still works. Clean up was a breeze.

Snarl

I've heard that trick. I tried it and didn't like it. The sponge is not a
clean straight edge. It left a lot of marks, but probably OK for a shop
wall.

This guy's done it for a long time and it shows in th' quality of his
work. I wanted a smooth finish and that's what I got... sans
sheetrock dust.

A good (pro) taper/finisher does very little sanding. A smooth finish
is accomplished with the knife.


You're right, but weren't any of those kinda guys handy at th' time.
Seems to happen that way consistently when I'm looking for sheetrock
help. Like right now actually.

Snarl

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Tom Wait
 
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Default fire proofing shop


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 May 2006 19:02:12 GMT, "Tom Wait"
wrote:

wrote in message
news
On Sat, 13 May 2006 22:20:38 -0400, "ATP*"
wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Bruce

Upon reflection I think you are right. I hate the idea of all the
plaster dust around my machines, but I will just have to tarp
everything up. Part of my problem is that I haven't gotten the

framing
or electrical inspections done yet. What I should really do is do

the
work required to pass the inspections first (get engineering

drawings
stamped for the gambrel roof framing, make the stairs to the top

floor
etc.)

stan

Dust from cutting cement (wonderboard) type panels would be even

worse.

Had a guy help me hang, tape and finish th' sheetrock in th' kids room
last summer. He never sanded th' mud, instead he used a damp sponge
to smooth it prior to paint. He said it doesn't matter how long it's
been dried, years even, and it still works. Clean up was a breeze.

Snarl

I've heard that trick. I tried it and didn't like it. The sponge is not a
clean straight edge. It left a lot of marks, but probably OK for a shop
wall.


This guy's done it for a long time and it shows in th' quality of his
work. I wanted a smooth finish and that's what I got... sans
sheetrock dust.

A good (pro) taper/finisher does very little sanding. A smooth finish
is accomplished with the knife.


You're right, but weren't any of those kinda guys handy at th' time.
Seems to happen that way consistently when I'm looking for sheetrock
help. Like right now actually.

Snarl

Yup, just holler 'HELP' while standing next to a pile of rock and all your
pals make like cockroaches when the light goes on. BTDT
Tom



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