On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:26:07 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:


I own two dogs, but I was having some serious thoughts about doing harm to
that dog.

Steve

I'm glad you didn't harm the dog. It's the owners that are to blame.
A lab can be broken of the barking habit. Been there, done that. My
beloved Charlie fell into that for a little while when she was about
5. I got a couple of friendly complaints. What finally worked was
to duct-tape her mouth shut for about 4 hours on a cool day when
panting wasn't required. Man, she hated that duct tape! After 4
hours of silent solitude and eventual resignation to her misery, the
tape was removed none too gently and then she got a dairy queen as
reward for her (enforced) good behavior. Man, that dog loved her
ice cream cones!

Lesson learned, was never forgotten for the remainder of her 18-year
life. I know labs aren't supposed to live that long, but Charlie
didn't know that.

I don't know for sure that the ultrasonic headache would train a
distant dog, but I kinda think it might. ARF --OW! And so on.

Anti bark training collars are about $25-80 bucks at most pet places.
More for large dogs.

If you have a problem, ask your neighbor if you can train the dog not
to bark. Vet approved, humane etc etc. Then go buy one and stick it on
the dog. It works in about 2 days at most. When solved..put it on the
shelf until the conditioning breaks in a couple years, then repeat.

Works great, keeps peace.

http://radiofence.com/bark_collars.htm

One of many many sites, not counting Ebay.
http://search.ebay.com/barking-collars_W0QQfromZR40

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

"Gunner" wrote in message
...

| Im fascinated by the sheer numbers of touchy feelie types that when
| confronted with the grim realities of life..go all atitter. One would
| assume that they are the same type that assumes hamburger comes from a
| factory in those little styrofoam trays, not a bawling ****ting
| terrified 1000 lb organism who is dragged onto a killing floor and
| bashed with a slegehammer or electrocuted, then hoist by a high speed
| crane, ripped open with a massive flood of guts and blood, then sliced
| to bits with power saws..
|
| Those of you with tender sensibilities..why not take a day trip to the
| nearest slaughterhouse for a tour, then go home and have a nice steak
| and a fine bottle of wine to enjoy while thinking over the days tour.
|
| Gunner

Well said, but I don't recall them fighting it. Cattle are too ignorant
to understand what's coming, unlike pigs which require a screen to prevent
them from seeing their future. As a fellow once described it, they blink
and its a new day.
I must admit that while I worked at a beef processing facility in Dallas
for awhile, the killing plant was out of the city limits, as required by
law, and only occasionally visited that plant to install and build equipment
and systems for it.

IIRC, there was no dragging or physical force required to move the
cattle along, especially when a cattle prod is involved.

"Gunner" wrote


Those of you with tender sensibilities..why not take a day trip to the
nearest slaughterhouse for a tour, then go home and have a nice steak
and a fine bottle of wine to enjoy while thinking over the days tour.

Gunner


I used to sell refrigeration systems. Some of our clients were
slaughterhouses.

Absolutely amazing. About five minutes from hoof to hanging half.

And the smell is quite peculiar.

I particularly liked the offal carts.

Steve

On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:37:08 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:26:07 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

I don't know for sure that the ultrasonic headache would train a
distant dog, but I kinda think it might. ARF --OW! And so on.

Anti bark training collars are about $25-80 bucks at most pet places.
More for large dogs.

If you have a problem, ask your neighbor if you can train the dog not
to bark. Vet approved, humane etc etc. Then go buy one and stick it on
the dog. It works in about 2 days at most. When solved..put it on the
shelf until the conditioning breaks in a couple years, then repeat.

I've asked neighbors before. Either they entirely deny their dog ever
makes a peep (90% of the time) or "ELECTROCUTE MY BABY?" or "The
collar is too cruel for my dear pet." (the other 10%) big sigh
First I tried getting them to purchase one, then I offered. I've never
had a taker yet, and I've screamed at dozens of folks (after asking
nicely several dozen times, of course.)

AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.


--------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2003 (from Oregon)
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:09:29 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Don
Foreman quickly quoth:

I think atmospheric absorption might be excessive at much over 200
feet. Massa's book on Ultrasonics may have charts, if I can find it
in the basement.

Danke.


I think DirecTV is in the range of 12.2 to 12.7 GHz, lambda of about
1.8 cm or 0.72 in. 22 KHz ultrasound has lambda of 1.5 cm or 0.6 in,
pretty comparable.

I'm stacked with projects at the moment, but I'll put a Hartmann back
on the "ta do" list.

Grazie.

Right now I'm trying to add electric drive to
my boat lift winch and "goin' to the lake" time is getting real close
even in MN. I'm adding some sprockets and adapting the motor and
planetary gear drive from a scrounged ATV winch. I'd rather push a
button than wind that 40" handwheel 40 revs with 20 lb of tangential
force every time I wanna go out for a little while. A commercial
gadget to do this runs over $500. I have about $10 in it so far, my

Cool. I spent the day at my GF's riverfront property. It's on the
Applegate River about 10 miles from my house, so we're going to go out
there more this summer once the frigid water warms up. It's an
unimproved forssted section about 49 acres, with about 500' of
riverfront access. She needs an ATV for us to ride, too.


time is free. Unfortunately, my wife has figured out the "my time
is free" concept so there are plenty of honeydo projects.

What do you charge her? wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more


I'm also welding up a "drop dolly" so I can roll a new 36" high (on
casters) tool chest under my 33" high bench.

That sounds like a very rewarding project. Putting heavy things on
wheels is one of my favorite things to do.


Man, I bet there are a bunch of wet, cold walleye fishers out there
today for the opener, but they might well catch some fish with
weather as lousy as it is. They'll earn 'em!

I'd like to bring home a nice steelhead sometime soon. Maybe I should
get a license and figure out what their run times are...


--------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2003 (from Oregon)
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:10:04 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:37:08 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:26:07 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

I don't know for sure that the ultrasonic headache would train a
distant dog, but I kinda think it might. ARF --OW! And so on.

Anti bark training collars are about $25-80 bucks at most pet places.
More for large dogs.

If you have a problem, ask your neighbor if you can train the dog not
to bark. Vet approved, humane etc etc. Then go buy one and stick it on
the dog. It works in about 2 days at most. When solved..put it on the
shelf until the conditioning breaks in a couple years, then repeat.

I've asked neighbors before. Either they entirely deny their dog ever
makes a peep (90% of the time) or "ELECTROCUTE MY BABY?" or "The
collar is too cruel for my dear pet." (the other 10%) big sigh
First I tried getting them to purchase one, then I offered. I've never
had a taker yet, and I've screamed at dozens of folks (after asking
nicely several dozen times, of course.)

AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.
This last comment would particularly apply to one vague acquaintance
who got herself a somewhat yappy small dog, then had it's vocal cords
cut so it wouldn't annoy her so much.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:10:04 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:37:08 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:26:07 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

I don't know for sure that the ultrasonic headache would train a
distant dog, but I kinda think it might. ARF --OW! And so on.

Anti bark training collars are about $25-80 bucks at most pet places.
More for large dogs.

If you have a problem, ask your neighbor if you can train the dog not
to bark. Vet approved, humane etc etc. Then go buy one and stick it on
the dog. It works in about 2 days at most. When solved..put it on the
shelf until the conditioning breaks in a couple years, then repeat.

I've asked neighbors before. Either they entirely deny their dog ever
makes a peep (90% of the time) or "ELECTROCUTE MY BABY?" or "The
collar is too cruel for my dear pet." (the other 10%) big sigh
First I tried getting them to purchase one, then I offered. I've never
had a taker yet, and I've screamed at dozens of folks (after asking
nicely several dozen times, of course.)

AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.

In the few cases Ive encountered that mind set..Ive asked the owner
have they ever seen an animal going through the terminal processes of
antifreeze poisoning..then describe them in excruciating detail and
say unless they keep the dog in the house..a couple meatballs soaked
in antifreeze could be snarfed up by the poor little doggie and they'd
not know it until the drooling and aphasia stage.

They either agree that a training collar is best..or keep the barker
inside. Either ways works for me.

Gunner



--------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2003 (from Oregon)
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------------

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

"Laurie Forbes" wrote in message
news:2kJ8g.6230$zn1.995@clgrps13...
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats
etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

TIA for any suggestions............

Laurie Forbes

Get some Llamas, Karakachan Dog, a Great Pyrenees Dog, or a pair of
Greyhounds. If you use dogs you need big dogs like the Karakachan or Great
Pyrenees. A pair of greyhounds can kill coyotes because they will work
together and kill it on the run. A single coyote can often fight off a
single dog the size of a German Shepard, or Doberman. Don't get me wrong,
the German Shepard or Doberman are fearless enough to fight a coyote, and if
the coyote couldn't get away they would kill it, but they usually can't keep
it around long enough to kill it and if it runs, they can't catch it.

On my daughters farm, two Llamas protect pastures containing the adult herds
of sheep/goats and two Karakachan (Bulgarian Shepard Dogs) protect pastures
of the younger lambs and kids. The Llamas will spit and stomp on the
coyotes, wild dogs or anything else that comes around. The Llamas kill ratio
is about 1 out of 4. The two dogs just kill the intruders, without making
any fuss about it. Their ratio is about 4 out of 5. The dogs live with the
flocks 24/7 and never come inside. The advantage of Karakachan Dog's, over
the Great Pyrenees Mountain Dog's, is that the Karakachan's don't keep you
awake all night barking and making a lot of noise. By the way after the 1st
coyotes was killed by the dogs, they learned real quickly to avoid the farm.
But the stupid wild dogs don't learn and continue to die. They very seldom
have had any problems since getting the Llamas and Karakachans, other than
disposing of the dead wild dog.

Actually about ½ of these wild dogs are pets that the owners just let run
loose, after all its not like they are in a city or anything. They post
notices on the wall at the local Wal-Mart of dogs that had been found on the
farm. When the owners call saying that's my dog they get asked how they want
to pay for the damage their pet did to the livestock, cash, check, or money
order. People don't visit the farm looking for their lost pets any more. ( I
suggested putting the dogs head on a pole beside the road but got voted
down.)

Also I understand that a adopting a pair of Greyhounds from the racetracks,
will solve a coyote problem fairly quickly too. In the early '60 I saw a
group of people hunting coyotes with greyhounds in the high desert around 29
Palms, Yucca Valley, Apple Valley Calif. They would load the pickups with
their greyhounds and take plenty of beer, and just drive around. Whenever
they saw a coyote they would let a few greyhounds out and watch them run the
coyote down and kill it. Just took a couple of minutes. Can't say I like
that method of hunting but what they did was legal at that time.

Oh yeah another advantage of the Karakachan's is they also kill the fox's
and leave the cotton tail rabbits alone. We have some great rabbit hunting
now.

On Sun, 14 May 2006 06:32:35 GMT, "Diamond Jim"
wrote:

Also I understand that a adopting a pair of Greyhounds from the racetracks,
will solve a coyote problem fairly quickly too. In the early '60 I saw a
group of people hunting coyotes with greyhounds in the high desert around 29
Palms, Yucca Valley, Apple Valley Calif. They would load the pickups with
their greyhounds and take plenty of beer, and just drive around. Whenever
they saw a coyote they would let a few greyhounds out and watch them run the
coyote down and kill it. Just took a couple of minutes. Can't say I like
that method of hunting but what they did was legal at that time.

Using greyhounds was pretty common in Nevada in the mid 70s, there
were a couple government hunters using them on coyotes around the Ely
and Currant Ranch area. They also used em on mountain lions. Course
around the cats, got em treed on a rock up up a bush and kept em there
till the hunter could deliver the coup de gras.

Btw...greyhounds, particularly those retired racing greyhounds make
pretty good pets, and are surprisingly good in apartments. So so
around small children but are great family dogs as the kids get past
the crawling stage.

Oh yeah another advantage of the Karakachan's is they also kill the fox's
and leave the cotton tail rabbits alone. We have some great rabbit hunting
now.

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:00:52 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gerald Miller quickly quoth:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:10:04 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.

This last comment would particularly apply to one vague acquaintance
who got herself a somewhat yappy small dog, then had it's vocal cords
cut so it wouldn't annoy her so much.

Sorry, Gerry, but I'd love to see lots of vocal chords cut since most
people aren't responsible enough to own pets. Hmm, maybe if the noisy
owners themselves had to have theirs cut, too, upon noise
complaints... BUT, a vet I talked with said they just grow back (pet
vocal chords) in 6 months, so unbunch your panties.

Ideally, -nobody- should own pets. Look what has happened in the name
of greed: tens of thousands of exotic birds are suffocated during
smuggling operations each year. Many dog breeds have serious health
problems due to inbreeding. I could go on, but Google "pet abuse" for
some real scary DAILY abuse news. It's absolutely shameful.


--------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2003 (from Oregon)
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 14 May 2006 05:14:50 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:10:04 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

I've asked neighbors before. Either they entirely deny their dog ever
makes a peep (90% of the time) or "ELECTROCUTE MY BABY?" or "The
collar is too cruel for my dear pet." (the other 10%) big sigh
First I tried getting them to purchase one, then I offered. I've never
had a taker yet, and I've screamed at dozens of folks (after asking
nicely several dozen times, of course.)

AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.

In the few cases Ive encountered that mind set..Ive asked the owner
have they ever seen an animal going through the terminal processes of
antifreeze poisoning..then describe them in excruciating detail and
say unless they keep the dog in the house..a couple meatballs soaked
in antifreeze could be snarfed up by the poor little doggie and they'd
not know it until the drooling and aphasia stage.

They either agree that a training collar is best..or keep the barker
inside. Either ways works for me.

Yeah, BUT, if they hadn't complied and someone other than you had
actually poisoned the dog, you'd be in the hot seat and possibly
jailed until they figured out it wasn't you. And couldn't they yank
your CCW license for that and decide not to give it back?


--------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2003 (from Oregon)
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------------

Diamond Jim wrote:

A pair of greyhounds can kill coyotes because they will work
together and kill it on the run.

I've seen how this works. The first greyhound will run the coyote into
a circle, while the second one rests. Then the second hound will take
over, while the first one rests. It becomes a relay race for the
hounds, while the coyote has to run twice as far, and so he will
eventually grow tired, and be taken down.

On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:20:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:09:29 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Don
Foreman quickly quoth:

I think atmospheric absorption might be excessive at much over 200
feet. Massa's book on Ultrasonics may have charts, if I can find it
in the basement.

Danke.

The reference I have is a bit inconclusive, but it looks like 1000
feet might not be out of the question in terms of atmospheric
absorption of 22 KHz ultrasound. There would definitely be some
loss, maybe 10 to 20 dB. Things were still being learned when my
rather old reference ('40s or 50's) was written.

This absorption is in addition to R-squared loss, which could be
dealt with by using a larger dish to get a tighter beam.

Hartmann whistles can produce ultrasound intense enough to boil
water and kill mice when focussed at short range, so some loss is
sustainable.

I wouldn't think a barking dog 1000 feet away would be that onerous,
but your hearing is probably considerably more acute than mine.

On Sun, 14 May 2006 10:59:58 GMT, Gunner
wrote:



When I was a kid, one summer I was pumping gas, and this blue haired
over done lady in this huge Caddy with tail fins and lots of chrome
came in for gas. As I was pumping and cleaning windows and checking
oil, I noticed this poodle was bouncing off the inside of the car,
mouth just a going. I remembered thinking that car was really really
sound proof, until I noticed her arm hanging out the window...

I asked about the dog, and in the sweetest grandmother tones..she said
" I love my little precious, but the little ******* was driving me
nuts with his barking so I had his vocal cords cut", then she smiled
sweetly, handed me her $5 for the 20 gallon fillup and then drove
off, leaving me standing next to the pump with my jaw hanging down and
the giggles starting to come on.

Gunner

A grandmother near and dear to me was messing around with seedlings,
dirt and little plastic trays in the kitchen sink yesterday. I
asked her if she hugged her plantlings and talked to them
encouragingly.

In a soft, dulcet maternal voice she sweetly murmurred,
"grow, you little sonofabitch!"

I'm glad I didn't have a mouthfull of coffee at the time.....

On Sun, 14 May 2006 06:23:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


They either agree that a training collar is best..or keep the barker
inside. Either ways works for me.

Yeah, BUT, if they hadn't complied and someone other than you had
actually poisoned the dog, you'd be in the hot seat and possibly
jailed until they figured out it wasn't you. And couldn't they yank
your CCW license for that and decide not to give it back?

They would have to have more than suspicion to do any such thing.

Like a bulk sack of Chef Boyarde meatballs soaked in antifreez and a
slingshot.

Shrug..its far harder to prove such things than one would think.

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

On Sun, 14 May 2006 10:46:12 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:20:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:09:29 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Don
Foreman quickly quoth:

I think atmospheric absorption might be excessive at much over 200
feet. Massa's book on Ultrasonics may have charts, if I can find it
in the basement.

Danke.

The reference I have is a bit inconclusive, but it looks like 1000
feet might not be out of the question in terms of atmospheric
absorption of 22 KHz ultrasound. There would definitely be some
loss, maybe 10 to 20 dB. Things were still being learned when my
rather old reference ('40s or 50's) was written.

This absorption is in addition to R-squared loss, which could be
dealt with by using a larger dish to get a tighter beam.

Hartmann whistles can produce ultrasound intense enough to boil
water and kill mice when focussed at short range, so some loss is
sustainable.

I wouldn't think a barking dog 1000 feet away would be that onerous,
but your hearing is probably considerably more acute than mine.



Or simply install a microphone at the property line, that every bark
triggers a sonic blast. of several seconds duration.

Now it would be fun if that sonic blast could be heard by the owners.
Everytime the dog barks..the owners get it.
Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:29:48 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Im fascinated by the sheer numbers of touchy feelie types that when
confronted with the grim realities of life..go all atitter. One would
assume that they are the same type that assumes hamburger comes from a
factory in those little styrofoam trays, not a bawling ****ting
terrified 1000 lb organism who is dragged onto a killing floor and
bashed with a slegehammer or electrocuted, then hoist by a high speed
crane, ripped open with a massive flood of guts and blood, then sliced
to bits with power saws..

Those of you with tender sensibilities..why not take a day trip to the
nearest slaughterhouse for a tour, then go home and have a nice steak
and a fine bottle of wine to enjoy while thinking over the days tour.

When I was a kid I wanted to grow up to be th' guy with th' big sledge
hammer who put 'em down. Grew up on a farm and went with th' Ol' man
to th' slaughter house in Chicago whenever he'd a sell a truckload of
'em... cool place.

Tried to feed my little brother to th' hogs once, but that's another
story...

Snarl

On Sun, 14 May 2006 17:49:36 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Sun, 14 May 2006 10:46:12 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:20:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:09:29 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Don
Foreman quickly quoth:

I think atmospheric absorption might be excessive at much over 200
feet. Massa's book on Ultrasonics may have charts, if I can find it
in the basement.

Danke.

The reference I have is a bit inconclusive, but it looks like 1000
feet might not be out of the question in terms of atmospheric
absorption of 22 KHz ultrasound. There would definitely be some
loss, maybe 10 to 20 dB. Things were still being learned when my
rather old reference ('40s or 50's) was written.

This absorption is in addition to R-squared loss, which could be
dealt with by using a larger dish to get a tighter beam.

Hartmann whistles can produce ultrasound intense enough to boil
water and kill mice when focussed at short range, so some loss is
sustainable.

I wouldn't think a barking dog 1000 feet away would be that onerous,
but your hearing is probably considerably more acute than mine.



Or simply install a microphone at the property line, that every bark
triggers a sonic blast. of several seconds duration.

I think that'd be nearly essential, so the dog will learn to
associate "ARF" with immediate "OW!" The objective is training
rather than retribution.

Now it would be fun if that sonic blast could be heard by the owners.
Everytime the dog barks..the owners get it.

Merely a matter of tuning! Given that very few loudspeakers deliver
5% efficiency (watts of sound power per electrical watt), it'd be
about equivalent to several kilowatts of ARF. (Followed by human OW!)
Kinda poetic: arf....ARRRF...OW! We could call it the Arfarrfow.

In actuality, since females tend to have better high-frequency acuity
it might be more like arf...ARRRFF ...HARRY, GODDAMMIT, MAKE THAT
STUPID DOG SHUT UP!!!

You may recall the story of Richard The ****, who was messing up my
4th of July evening tryst with his poppity poppity firecrackers.
Finally, about 10:30, I figured RTS should be in bed or inside playing
with his nintendo or something so I put a 1 gallon O/A baggiebombe
with a Winston time-delay fuse by the fence.

Poppity poppity KERBLAM ......RICHARD, GETCHERASSINHERE NOW!
Shortly later there were some blue flashing lights in the next
street for a few minutes, then all was blissfully peaceful.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 May 2006 17:49:36 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Sun, 14 May 2006 10:46:12 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:20:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:09:29 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Don
Foreman quickly quoth:

I think atmospheric absorption might be excessive at much over 200
feet. Massa's book on Ultrasonics may have charts, if I can find it
in the basement.

Danke.

The reference I have is a bit inconclusive, but it looks like 1000
feet might not be out of the question in terms of atmospheric
absorption of 22 KHz ultrasound. There would definitely be some
loss, maybe 10 to 20 dB. Things were still being learned when my
rather old reference ('40s or 50's) was written.

This absorption is in addition to R-squared loss, which could be
dealt with by using a larger dish to get a tighter beam.

Hartmann whistles can produce ultrasound intense enough to boil
water and kill mice when focussed at short range, so some loss is
sustainable.

I wouldn't think a barking dog 1000 feet away would be that onerous,
but your hearing is probably considerably more acute than mine.



Or simply install a microphone at the property line, that every bark
triggers a sonic blast. of several seconds duration.

I think that'd be nearly essential, so the dog will learn to
associate "ARF" with immediate "OW!" The objective is training
rather than retribution.

Now it would be fun if that sonic blast could be heard by the owners.
Everytime the dog barks..the owners get it.

Merely a matter of tuning! Given that very few loudspeakers deliver
5% efficiency (watts of sound power per electrical watt), it'd be
about equivalent to several kilowatts of ARF. (Followed by human OW!)
Kinda poetic: arf....ARRRF...OW! We could call it the Arfarrfow.

In actuality, since females tend to have better high-frequency acuity
it might be more like arf...ARRRFF ...HARRY, GODDAMMIT, MAKE THAT
STUPID DOG SHUT UP!!!

You may recall the story of Richard The ****, who was messing up my
4th of July evening tryst with his poppity poppity firecrackers.
Finally, about 10:30, I figured RTS should be in bed or inside playing
with his nintendo or something so I put a 1 gallon O/A baggiebombe
with a Winston time-delay fuse by the fence.

Poppity poppity KERBLAM ......RICHARD, GETCHERASSINHERE NOW!
Shortly later there were some blue flashing lights in the next
street for a few minutes, then all was blissfully peaceful.


We did that one year on our hillside very rural home, but we used a 55
gallon drum, a spark plug, a tbsp. of gasoline, and pure O2. Lucky for us,
there was a delay until the blue lights actually got there, and we were able
to find MOST of the barrel.

When they asked if we had seen or heard anything, all we could answer was,

"Huh?"

Steve

On Sun, 14 May 2006 17:49:36 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

I wouldn't think a barking dog 1000 feet away would be that onerous,
but your hearing is probably considerably more acute than mine.

It cuts right through the wall, Don. (BTW, I'm only 52.) I don't know
if the little ******* has a megaphone or what, but the son of a bitch
is LOUD, even this far away across a field!


Or simply install a microphone at the property line, that every bark
triggers a sonic blast. of several seconds duration.

Now it would be fun if that sonic blast could be heard by the owners.
Everytime the dog barks..the owners get it.
Gunner

Heh heh heh. That would be a treat, wouldn't it? Add wireless camera
for getting the reactions on "film" and I could sell the flick, don't
ya think?

How about a drug which makes their hearing more acute? Dart the owners
with it one evening when they let the dog out and see what happens. I
wish someone would do that and document it. snicker

--
"Simplicity of life, even the barest, is not misery but
the very foundation of refinement." --William Morris
-----------------------------------
www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:07:39 -0400, axolotl wrote:
Don Foreman wrote:

The wavelength of 22 KHz ultrasound is slightly shorter than Ka band
microwave,

Umm...?

Speed of sound vs. speed of light. I haven't calculated the above,
though...

On Sun, 14 May 2006 14:14:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 14 May 2006 17:49:36 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

I wouldn't think a barking dog 1000 feet away would be that onerous,
but your hearing is probably considerably more acute than mine.

It cuts right through the wall, Don. (BTW, I'm only 52.) I don't know
if the little ******* has a megaphone or what, but the son of a bitch
is LOUD, even this far away across a field!

Sound can do strange things. When the air is warmer near the ground
(usually the case), particularly at night), some refraction can
occur that makes sound hug the ground. That effect would work both
ways, and there ain't a dog made that can yap as loud as a Hartmann
whistle.

The dog may be in a space that acts as a corner reflector, focussing
its yaps in your direction. That would also cut both ways.

On Sun, 14 May 2006 14:03:19 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 14 May 2006 17:49:36 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Sun, 14 May 2006 10:46:12 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:20:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:09:29 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Don
Foreman quickly quoth:

I think atmospheric absorption might be excessive at much over 200
feet. Massa's book on Ultrasonics may have charts, if I can find it
in the basement.

Danke.

The reference I have is a bit inconclusive, but it looks like 1000
feet might not be out of the question in terms of atmospheric
absorption of 22 KHz ultrasound. There would definitely be some
loss, maybe 10 to 20 dB. Things were still being learned when my
rather old reference ('40s or 50's) was written.

This absorption is in addition to R-squared loss, which could be
dealt with by using a larger dish to get a tighter beam.

Hartmann whistles can produce ultrasound intense enough to boil
water and kill mice when focussed at short range, so some loss is
sustainable.

I wouldn't think a barking dog 1000 feet away would be that onerous,
but your hearing is probably considerably more acute than mine.



Or simply install a microphone at the property line, that every bark
triggers a sonic blast. of several seconds duration.

I think that'd be nearly essential, so the dog will learn to
associate "ARF" with immediate "OW!" The objective is training
rather than retribution.

Now it would be fun if that sonic blast could be heard by the owners.
Everytime the dog barks..the owners get it.

Merely a matter of tuning! Given that very few loudspeakers deliver
5% efficiency (watts of sound power per electrical watt), it'd be
about equivalent to several kilowatts of ARF. (Followed by human OW!)
Kinda poetic: arf....ARRRF...OW! We could call it the Arfarrfow.

In actuality, since females tend to have better high-frequency acuity
it might be more like arf...ARRRFF ...HARRY, GODDAMMIT, MAKE THAT
STUPID DOG SHUT UP!!!

You may recall the story of Richard The ****, who was messing up my
4th of July evening tryst with his poppity poppity firecrackers.
Finally, about 10:30, I figured RTS should be in bed or inside playing
with his nintendo or something so I put a 1 gallon O/A baggiebombe
with a Winston time-delay fuse by the fence.

Poppity poppity KERBLAM ......RICHARD, GETCHERASSINHERE NOW!
Shortly later there were some blue flashing lights in the next
street for a few minutes, then all was blissfully peaceful.

One gallon????? Comeon Don..why think small?

G

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

On Sun, 14 May 2006 11:16:19 -0700, wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:29:48 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Im fascinated by the sheer numbers of touchy feelie types that when
confronted with the grim realities of life..go all atitter. One would
assume that they are the same type that assumes hamburger comes from a
factory in those little styrofoam trays, not a bawling ****ting
terrified 1000 lb organism who is dragged onto a killing floor and
bashed with a slegehammer or electrocuted, then hoist by a high speed
crane, ripped open with a massive flood of guts and blood, then sliced
to bits with power saws..

Those of you with tender sensibilities..why not take a day trip to the
nearest slaughterhouse for a tour, then go home and have a nice steak
and a fine bottle of wine to enjoy while thinking over the days tour.

When I was a kid I wanted to grow up to be th' guy with th' big sledge
hammer who put 'em down. Grew up on a farm and went with th' Ol' man
to th' slaughter house in Chicago whenever he'd a sell a truckload of
'em... cool place.

Tried to feed my little brother to th' hogs once, but that's another
story...

Snarl

Ive wacked a few in the forehead with a sledge. Its hard to get rid
of the memory of the ones who looked up at you with those big brown
eyes, and followed the flight of the sledge hammer until they were
somewhat crosseyed (hard with a herbvore to go cross eyed) and that
CRUNCH as the sledge buries itself in their forehead and you have to
leap backwards as they collapse.

Now when called to do the deed, I simply shoot em in the head with a
..41 mag.

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

Laurie Forbes wrote:
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

TIA for any suggestions............

Laurie Forbes

Laurie,
You sspecifically asked for a solution that does not involve bullets,
or poison.. Here it is.

A friend of mine has a pet timberwolf. This is a big animal, and very
very friendly and playful around people. He is protective of anything
in the household. One day coyotes came around, and discovered the cats.
One cat came running acros the yard, with a coyote hot on his tail. The
cat ran straigt towards Teddy, and the coyote did not see him until too
late. One giant CHOMP! and the cat was out of danger.

The coyotes have not come back, ever. No bullets were involved, no
poisons were involved.

Granted the occasional visit in the middle of the night by a pack of
about a dozen timberwolfs, who come in to visit with Teddy. Teddy, is
very friendly, and never seems bothered by the wild wolf pack.

So one possible solution is to get a timberwolf.
HTH
Pete

On Sun, 14 May 2006 17:54:58 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Don
Foreman quickly quoth:

On Sun, 14 May 2006 14:14:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 14 May 2006 17:49:36 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

I wouldn't think a barking dog 1000 feet away would be that onerous,
but your hearing is probably considerably more acute than mine.

It cuts right through the wall, Don. (BTW, I'm only 52.) I don't know
if the little ******* has a megaphone or what, but the son of a bitch
is LOUD, even this far away across a field!

Sound can do strange things. When the air is warmer near the ground
(usually the case), particularly at night), some refraction can
occur that makes sound hug the ground. That effect would work both
ways, and there ain't a dog made that can yap as loud as a Hartmann
whistle.

Yeah, a bark is likely not as loud as a 160dB whistle, despite how
loud the bark "feels."


The dog may be in a space that acts as a corner reflector, focussing
its yaps in your direction. That would also cut both ways.

Hey, maybe I can focus a large parabolic mirror so his yelps will go
back at the owner's house, FINALLY making him hear the damned things.
g

--
"Simplicity of life, even the barest, is not misery but
the very foundation of refinement." --William Morris
-----------------------------------
www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

Larry Jaques wrote:

Hey, maybe I can focus a large parabolic mirror so his yelps will go
back at the owner's house, FINALLY making him hear the damned things.


Welll.. There have been some systems made using two ultrasonic sources,
one modulated, so that the mixed product where the beams cross is in the
audio range. You could have Elvis or space aliens tell him (and only
him, this would not work in a large area) to shut the &^%%! dog up.

Kevin Gallimore

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On Sun, 14 May 2006 14:14:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 14 May 2006 17:49:36 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

I wouldn't think a barking dog 1000 feet away would be that onerous,
but your hearing is probably considerably more acute than mine.

It cuts right through the wall, Don. (BTW, I'm only 52.) I don't know
if the little ******* has a megaphone or what, but the son of a bitch
is LOUD, even this far away across a field!

There is a yappy little carnivourous rat about 2 blocks away that yaps
away by the hour and is EXTREMELY irritating. One of these afternoons
I'll get an accurate address and report the little stinker.


Or simply install a microphone at the property line, that every bark
triggers a sonic blast. of several seconds duration.

Now it would be fun if that sonic blast could be heard by the owners.
Everytime the dog barks..the owners get it.
Gunner

Heh heh heh. That would be a treat, wouldn't it? Add wireless camera
for getting the reactions on "film" and I could sell the flick, don't
ya think?

How about a drug which makes their hearing more acute? Dart the owners
with it one evening when they let the dog out and see what happens. I
wish someone would do that and document it. snicker


*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

My guess - secret dog in a no dog building...

dog makes noise and the neighbors complain...

Easier to cut than deal with the witch next door after getting home
after a long day at work... or ...

Everyone (but me :-) ) had their tonsils yanked out as a kid, their appendix.....
and BoTox for my beautiful face....

Why not a little cut here and the damn dog doesn't force me to drink - again....
move again... get a divorce again....

Life...

Martin
Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member


Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 14 May 2006 01:00:52 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gerald Miller quickly quoth:


On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:10:04 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.


This last comment would particularly apply to one vague acquaintance
who got herself a somewhat yappy small dog, then had it's vocal cords
cut so it wouldn't annoy her so much.


Sorry, Gerry, but I'd love to see lots of vocal chords cut since most
people aren't responsible enough to own pets. Hmm, maybe if the noisy
owners themselves had to have theirs cut, too, upon noise
complaints... BUT, a vet I talked with said they just grow back (pet
vocal chords) in 6 months, so unbunch your panties.

Ideally, -nobody- should own pets. Look what has happened in the name
of greed: tens of thousands of exotic birds are suffocated during
smuggling operations each year. Many dog breeds have serious health
problems due to inbreeding. I could go on, but Google "pet abuse" for
some real scary DAILY abuse news. It's absolutely shameful.


--------------------------------------------------
I survived the D.C. Blizzard of 2003 (from Oregon)
----------------------------
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
--------------------------------------------------------

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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On 14 May 2006 17:52:46 -0700, wrote:


Laurie Forbes wrote:
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

TIA for any suggestions............

Laurie Forbes

Laurie,
You sspecifically asked for a solution that does not involve bullets,
or poison.. Here it is.

A friend of mine has a pet timberwolf. This is a big animal, and very
very friendly and playful around people. He is protective of anything
in the household. One day coyotes came around, and discovered the cats.
One cat came running acros the yard, with a coyote hot on his tail. The
cat ran straigt towards Teddy, and the coyote did not see him until too
late. One giant CHOMP! and the cat was out of danger.

The coyotes have not come back, ever. No bullets were involved, no
poisons were involved.

Granted the occasional visit in the middle of the night by a pack of
about a dozen timberwolfs, who come in to visit with Teddy. Teddy, is
very friendly, and never seems bothered by the wild wolf pack.

So one possible solution is to get a timberwolf.
HTH
Pete

My malamute Baron was very protective of the cats also. Had a pit bull
chase one up onto the porch where Baron and I were kicked back in the
shade. Baron was laying there on his belly, stretched out like a big
fur rug one moment..and the next there was a popping sound as the air
filled the vacuum with some long hairs floating in the breeze..and a
very large and noisy furball in the middle of the front yard. Baron
actually broke that pits neck right there in the front yard. He got
the tip of one ear a bit shredded, and that was about all. He walked
around that dying dog, looking about twice his normal 165 lbs..all
puffed up, turned his back on the pit..scratched the ground a couple
times, then he ****ed on that pit bull, and ambled back up on the
porch and checked out "his" cat.

Damn I miss that dog. He passed on at the age of 12 or 14, and is
buried in my side yard, near the female who was much older and passed
on a couple years before he did. He mourned for months.

He killed about 8 or 9 coyotes in much the same manner and for the
same reason. Funny as hell watching him sprawled out on the living
room floor with a litter of kittens crawling all over him. He would
mumble and grumble..but when they were out..he would lay down near em
like he would be inviting them to play. One of the momma cats would
come up to him, cry, and he would follow her back to the box kittens
were in, and he would lay down near the box so she could go off and
eat etc.

Amazing dogs..but you had to like hair..lots of hair..

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

On Sun, 14 May 2006 21:37:15 -0400, axolotl
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

Hey, maybe I can focus a large parabolic mirror so his yelps will go
back at the owner's house, FINALLY making him hear the damned things.


Welll.. There have been some systems made using two ultrasonic sources,
one modulated, so that the mixed product where the beams cross is in the
audio range. You could have Elvis or space aliens tell him (and only
him, this would not work in a large area) to shut the &^%%! dog up.

Yup! This is a way to focus and localize audio-frequency sound
because the lower frequency is actually produced at the distant spot
by mixing of the ultrasonic energy from the two beams in the distant
region.

Sooo---you could produce a yapping dog (or yowling cat-in-heat,
copulating elephants, frantically-feeding hyenas or Wagner's "Ride
of the Valkyrie" ) right outside his bedroom window -- sweet dreams,
MF -- and he'd have one hell of a time figuring it out because the
sound level would diminish and be behind him as he approached your
boundary while moving away from the intersection region. Tawk
about deniability! Nothing to deny cuz nobody'd believe him.

"They're driving me nuts with the hyenas and elephants, I can't
sleep!" "Uh huh, and who might 'they' be, Sir?" "It's gotta be
that S.O.B. Larry Jaques over there."

Cop looks. "Over where?" "There, there, across the railroad
tracks." "Uh huh. Care to give us a urine sample, Sir?"

wrote:
If lead poisoning doesn't work, then just mix large quantities of rat
poison with some hamburger. Keep your own pets chained or locked up
until the crisis is over.

I would also point out that raisins or grapes are deadly to dogs. I
would think a few raisins in a lightly cooked chick breast would be a
nice treat for the most incorrigible specimens

Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:10:04 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:37:08 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:26:07 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:
I don't know for sure that the ultrasonic headache would train a
distant dog, but I kinda think it might. ARF --OW! And so on.
Anti bark training collars are about $25-80 bucks at most pet places.
More for large dogs.

If you have a problem, ask your neighbor if you can train the dog not
to bark. Vet approved, humane etc etc. Then go buy one and stick it on
the dog. It works in about 2 days at most. When solved..put it on the
shelf until the conditioning breaks in a couple years, then repeat.
I've asked neighbors before. Either they entirely deny their dog ever
makes a peep (90% of the time) or "ELECTROCUTE MY BABY?" or "The
collar is too cruel for my dear pet." (the other 10%) big sigh
First I tried getting them to purchase one, then I offered. I've never
had a taker yet, and I've screamed at dozens of folks (after asking
nicely several dozen times, of course.)

AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.

In the few cases Ive encountered that mind set..Ive asked the owner
have they ever seen an animal going through the terminal processes of
antifreeze poisoning..then describe them in excruciating detail and
say unless they keep the dog in the house..a couple meatballs soaked
in antifreeze could be snarfed up by the poor little doggie and they'd
not know it until the drooling and aphasia stage.

They either agree that a training collar is best..or keep the barker
inside. Either ways works for me.

Gunner

I'm good with all that, but I'm pretty sure that a conversation like
that, followed by the untimely demise of the 4-legged offender, would
result in unpleasant legal proceedings, both criminal and civil.

per Rex B:

I would also point out that raisins or grapes are deadly to dogs.

For those skeptics such as myself:

http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/raisins.asp

dennis
in nca

On Mon, 15 May 2006 09:06:38 -0500, Rex B
wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:10:04 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:37:08 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:26:07 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:
I don't know for sure that the ultrasonic headache would train a
distant dog, but I kinda think it might. ARF --OW! And so on.
Anti bark training collars are about $25-80 bucks at most pet places.
More for large dogs.

If you have a problem, ask your neighbor if you can train the dog not
to bark. Vet approved, humane etc etc. Then go buy one and stick it on
the dog. It works in about 2 days at most. When solved..put it on the
shelf until the conditioning breaks in a couple years, then repeat.
I've asked neighbors before. Either they entirely deny their dog ever
makes a peep (90% of the time) or "ELECTROCUTE MY BABY?" or "The
collar is too cruel for my dear pet." (the other 10%) big sigh
First I tried getting them to purchase one, then I offered. I've never
had a taker yet, and I've screamed at dozens of folks (after asking
nicely several dozen times, of course.)

AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.

In the few cases Ive encountered that mind set..Ive asked the owner
have they ever seen an animal going through the terminal processes of
antifreeze poisoning..then describe them in excruciating detail and
say unless they keep the dog in the house..a couple meatballs soaked
in antifreeze could be snarfed up by the poor little doggie and they'd
not know it until the drooling and aphasia stage.

They either agree that a training collar is best..or keep the barker
inside. Either ways works for me.

Gunner

I'm good with all that, but I'm pretty sure that a conversation like
that, followed by the untimely demise of the 4-legged offender, would
result in unpleasant legal proceedings, both criminal and civil.

One simply looks pensive, expresses sympathy for the passing of the
little ******* and never ever leaves evidence around.

Now if a wide ring of such incidents occur around your home..that
might be another thing altogether.

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,

On Mon, 15 May 2006 09:06:38 -0500, Rex B
wrote:

Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 13 May 2006 20:10:04 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:37:08 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner
quickly quoth:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:26:07 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:
I don't know for sure that the ultrasonic headache would train a
distant dog, but I kinda think it might. ARF --OW! And so on.
Anti bark training collars are about $25-80 bucks at most pet places.
More for large dogs.

If you have a problem, ask your neighbor if you can train the dog not
to bark. Vet approved, humane etc etc. Then go buy one and stick it on
the dog. It works in about 2 days at most. When solved..put it on the
shelf until the conditioning breaks in a couple years, then repeat.
I've asked neighbors before. Either they entirely deny their dog ever
makes a peep (90% of the time) or "ELECTROCUTE MY BABY?" or "The
collar is too cruel for my dear pet." (the other 10%) big sigh
First I tried getting them to purchase one, then I offered. I've never
had a taker yet, and I've screamed at dozens of folks (after asking
nicely several dozen times, of course.)

AFAIC, the owners should be put to sleep and the dogs trained and
given to good homes.

In the few cases Ive encountered that mind set..Ive asked the owner
have they ever seen an animal going through the terminal processes of
antifreeze poisoning..then describe them in excruciating detail and
say unless they keep the dog in the house..a couple meatballs soaked
in antifreeze could be snarfed up by the poor little doggie and they'd
not know it until the drooling and aphasia stage.

They either agree that a training collar is best..or keep the barker
inside. Either ways works for me.

Gunner

I'm good with all that, but I'm pretty sure that a conversation like
that, followed by the untimely demise of the 4-legged offender, would
result in unpleasant legal proceedings, both criminal and civil.

Perhaps you miss the point. It's motivation therapy, AKA psywar.
Gunner didn't say he'd actually do that, the point is to make the
owner understand that "screw you" can cut both ways -- that's why the
graphic description. The owner, obviously being a scofflaw who
thinks that neighbor who says please isn't serious, might
understand the notion of sneaky scofflaw retribution agains the
hapless animal -- particularly if the message is delivered in a very
calm, cold manner making the indelible impression in the jerk's
"mind" that the speaker would have no qualms or hesitation about
doing such a reprehensible act.

Now the laizzez-faire of "the authorities" works against the negligent
and delinquent owner and a scumbag will understand that better than
Ms Whitebread would. If they don't care about noise control,
they're also not going to care about rover-cide. To them it'd just
be a petty property crime even if it was provably ascribable to a
particular perpetrator -- which it clearly would not be short of
videotape or witness testimony, even if threats had been made.
Scumbags know that cops don't dust for prints after petty theft, and
even if they did they certainly wouldn't find any prints on a
partially-digested meatball. So they'd just fill out a report.
Their attitude toward petty property crimes is that insurance is the
remedy. When they do catch thieves with stolen property, they bust
the perp (who often skates with a scolding unless drugs are involved)
and auction off the spoils for the benefit of the Policeman's
Fraternal Brotherhood or some such.

As for civil action, the owner is legless there as well because it is
his responsibility to keep his animal safe. If the dog were properly
supervised it couldn't have eaten something that is bad for it, and if
the dog was trespassing it's often legal to shoot them absent a leash
law in effect.
..

I would forego the sponge and bacon grease thing ands go with a chunk
of cork, ground up or crushed up to crumble sized pieces. ONe or two
miller or budweiser beer bottles, busted up into pieces about 1/8 x
1/2 or just some small shards about like a pea or so.1/2 pound of
hamburger meat.

Place hamburger meat in frying pan, and add crushed ground up cork,
and glass.. Stir well and brown and simmer until its soaked into the
cork........Using gloves make a few patties, and place in conspicuous
spots for coyotes to find..........They eat these burger patties, and
during digestion the grease is supposed pulled out of the cork and it
makes it swell up (so I am told) which causes binding or impaction of
some degree to the intestinal tract. Gut and intestinal tract action
combined with glass shards cuts intestines and creates internal
hemorageing......and of course peritonitis.

I supose the sponge deal works about the same way but just causes
blockage without cutting the intestines and making them bleed and leak
thus creating peritonitis

A charming bunch you are - I'm sorry I asked.

Thanks however to those few who provided intelligent responses to my
query.............

Laurie Forbes


Psychologists will tell you that the way people treat animals tells you a
lot about them. From the cruel and inhuman responses some of the people (and
I use the term loosely) suggested to deal with the coyotes you can tell what
kind of people they are. Anyone that would come up with such visciously
creative ways of destroying an animal one merely wants to scare off has to
be a lower form of life. My guess is that they are all Bush supporters as
well as inbred cretins, pretty much the same thing actually. Some of them
need killing.


Hawke

Use coyote urine. Available at feed stores and some hunting supply
stores. Spray the area like a coyote would and mark your territory. If
wolf urine is available use that instead.

"Tangent" wrote in message
oups.com...

Use coyote urine. Available at feed stores and some hunting supply
stores. Spray the area like a coyote would and mark your territory. If
wolf urine is available use that instead.

OK. I'll assume for the moment the above is serious (I expect it would work
alright but can I actually call a feed or hunting supply store and order
coyote (or wolf) urine w/o being laughed at??). One question that comes to
mind is where and how the heck do they collect it (or is it some form of
artificial product)? If such stuff is available, I will try it and, thanks
for the suggestion.

BTW Hawke, thanks for restoring my faith in humanity a little - I was
beginning to think I was the only one who objected to the outrageous crap
that floated to the surface of this thread.

Laurie Forbes

On Tue, 16 May 2006 18:59:17 GMT, Laurie Forbes wrote:

"Tangent" wrote in message
oups.com...

Use coyote urine.

OK. I'll assume for the moment the above is serious

Why would you think otherwise?

BTW Hawke, thanks for restoring my faith in humanity a little - I was
beginning to think I was the only one who objected to the outrageous crap
that floated to the surface of this thread.

You've got on odd way of encouraging people to help you with your
problems. But at least Hawke has a friend now.