On 11 May 2006 19:42:31 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Thu, 11 May 2006 19:28:31 GMT, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...

Right. "I'm not answering the question you asked, I'm answering the
question you _should have_ asked."

Many, many times in my career I've faced the task of guiding a client
through 'refining' his/her specifications on a system until they came at
least diagonally consistent with physical reality. G

nod-nod yup. Even better if you can get them to do this and think it
was their idea all along.

It's a good practice, but to do it successfully requires a bit more
subtlety in the ahem execution.

-- Bruce --

On Thu, 11 May 2006 19:08:06 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:24:07 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
wrote:


"Laurie Forbes" wrote in message
news:2kJ8g.6230$zn1.995@clgrps13...
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats
etc. Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other
than bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

TIA for any suggestions............

One dead coyote will scare hell out of the rest of them. They'll come howl
one or two nights, then vacate the scene for a year.

Lloyd: You just failed the r.c.m reading comprehension test.

-- Bruce --

Actually..Lloyd is correct. There is little that will scare them away
for any length of time. You have to either remove the stuff that
attracts them, or kill them..on occasion a couple large dogs may keep
them away. I live in the high desert. Lots of coyotes. I like coyotes.
In fact I named my company after them. But the only way I could keep
them from using my cats as whore durves G was to either turn my
malamute loose on them (he would catch and kill them) or shoot them.

I tried paint balls, fire crackers, bb guns, etc etc with little or no
luck. One of the things that gave them a bit of pause..was to go
around and **** on all the vertical stuff in the fence like..at least
3 feet above ground level. This slowed them down for about a week.

Then I had to start shooting them. Shrug. I blew a couple into chunks,
and the rest started making a wide berth around the property.

Gunner


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Thu, 11 May 2006 19:28:10 GMT, lid (~Roy)
wrote:

IMHO I could care less if it hurts a coyote or not, as long as it
kills the SOB's........and not just scare it away.preferably a long
slow death....well not realy long and slow and quick would be best,
but I really hate those *******s with a passion. This area is loaded
with them. Even the state bombs them with poison baits from aircraft
and they stillmultiply like crazy. One year I shot 14 of them without
even trying. The kills were all accomplished on my way to or from
work or just by happen chance to see them when I had a gun handy.....I
imagine if I hunted them with a predator call etc I oucl deaily have
more than doubled that number.......

A few years back I found 3 little coyote pups in a den. Gave two away
and kept the third, a female.....it was not like a wolf or fox by
anymeans, and no matter how kind it ws treated, it wsa just as unreuly
and mean as a wild reared pup would have been. I gave it to the
wildlife officer up the road, who shot it in the end. None of the
other two pups were able to be trained either, and were also
destroyed......Its not uncommon to see them setting along the
interstate watching cars go buy without a care in the world.

True enough. Coyotes cannot be domesticated. The best you can do is
come to an agreement with them. I understand that dingos are similar.
Now a cross breed between a dog and a coyote..coydog, may..may be
domesticatable..but frankly..its not worth the effort.

Gunner



On Thu, 11 May 2006 19:15:49 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
wrote:

"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
om...
On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:24:07 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
wrote:
Lloyd: You just failed the r.c.m reading comprehension test.

Nope, the OP's friends didn't want to hurt them. A clean kill doesn't hurt,
and it's the best aversion therapy for coyotes. They're smart enough to pay
attention.

Sometimes, the best solution ignores some design parameters.

LLoyd



==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Fri, 12 May 2006 01:35:13 GMT, lid (~Roy)
wrote:


I would forego the sponge and bacon grease thing ands go with a chunk
of cork, ground up or crushed up to crumble sized pieces. ONe or two
miller or budweiser beer bottles, busted up into pieces about 1/8 x
1/2 or just some small shards about like a pea or so.1/2 pound of
hamburger meat.

Place hamburger meat in frying pan, and add crushed ground up cork,
and glass.. Stir well and brown and simmer until its soaked into the
cork........Using gloves make a few patties, and place in conspicuous
spots for coyotes to find..........They eat these burger patties, and
during digestion the grease is supposed pulled out of the cork and it
makes it swell up (so I am told) which causes binding or impaction of
some degree to the intestinal tract. Gut and intestinal tract action
combined with glass shards cuts intestines and creates internal
hemorageing......and of course peritonitis.

I supose the sponge deal works about the same way but just causes
blockage without cutting the intestines and making them bleed and leak
thus creating peritonitis

Its far simpler to simply mix in some antifreeze with the raw
hamburger.

But its an ugly ugly way to kill any animal. And you may kill some
that you dont want to kill.

Best to simply head shoot em.


Gunner

On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:32:23 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

"Mike" wrote in message
...
Pieces of sponge dipped in bacon grease ought to fix them up


I have seen coyote scat. Looks like they could pass a beer can. Please
explain how this sponge thing works.

Steve



==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

On Thu, 11 May 2006 21:07:06 -0700, Ken Cutt
wrote:

~Roy wrote:
Not too many critters can take a head shot with a .22 cal LR and its
as deadly when hit as it is with a 06' I have always heard theonly
feeling a person feels if shot in the head is where the skin and meat
is compromised, and that the brain itself has no nerve endings and
doesnot feel any pain itself, so hell a 22 even if it did not outright
kill the critter, is not gonna feel all that much, even if its doing
all kinds of death throes..........it only feels the hole the 22 made,
and the rest is just nerve reactions making it look grossly like a lot
of pain.


You may be right but I have heard the sound of an individual brain cell
as it dies . Sounds just like a human scream . It was the brain cell of
a lab rat . Not sure if that matters . About the only thing I shoot with
a 22LR is Grouse . I was given an old Cooey single shot when I was a boy
and have used it for grouse ever since . I used to shoot a lot of
gophers when I was young but there are none near where I now live sadly
. In open fields it is a lot easier with the Swift for coyotes .
Ken Cutt


And the 'red mist" the Swift makes as its trademark tends to not
leave a wounded animal to crawl off and suffer.

Gunner, who has used the 22-250 with equal success on yodel dogs, or
the .243 in heavy barrel out past 400 meters when the .22 centerfires
run out of steam.



"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Gunner
wrote on Fri, 12 May 2006 09:03:07 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking :

One dead coyote will scare hell out of the rest of them. They'll come howl
one or two nights, then vacate the scene for a year.

Lloyd: You just failed the r.c.m reading comprehension test.

-- Bruce --

Actually..Lloyd is correct. There is little that will scare them away
for any length of time. You have to either remove the stuff that
attracts them, or kill them..on occasion a couple large dogs may keep
them away. I live in the high desert. Lots of coyotes. I like coyotes.
In fact I named my company after them. But the only way I could keep
them from using my cats as whore durves G was to either turn my
malamute loose on them (he would catch and kill them) or shoot them.

I tried paint balls, fire crackers, bb guns, etc etc with little or no
luck. One of the things that gave them a bit of pause..was to go
around and **** on all the vertical stuff in the fence like..at least
3 feet above ground level. This slowed them down for about a week.

Then I had to start shooting them. Shrug. I blew a couple into chunks,
and the rest started making a wide berth around the property.

My understanding is that coyotes are like wild turkeys, in that if you
walk out empty handed, they'll just watch you. But if you walk out with a
rifle, they'll be long gone. Of course, I could (probably am) wrong on
this occasion.


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

On Fri, 12 May 2006 09:10:34 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Fri, 12 May 2006 01:35:13 GMT, lid (~Roy)
wrote:

Amateurs--- get some M44 cyanide guns and do it properly
if poision is the tool of choice. A tad non selective for me
but much more humane than all this other crap suggested .

A long term solution for the OP is electric fencing, expensive
but works 100% and is totally non lethal.

ED


Its far simpler to simply mix in some antifreeze with the raw
hamburger.

But its an ugly ugly way to kill any animal. And you may kill some
that you dont want to kill.

Best to simply head shoot em.


Gunner

On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:32:23 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

"Mike" wrote in message
...
Pieces of sponge dipped in bacon grease ought to fix them up


I have seen coyote scat. Looks like they could pass a beer can. Please
explain how this sponge thing works.

Steve



==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

The 22-250 is certainly one of my most used guns as is my .223. I
just love the 22-250 for varmit catagory, into why coyotes fall.


On Fri, 12 May 2006 09:13:42 GMT, Gunner
wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2006 21:07:06 -0700, Ken Cutt
wrote:

~Roy wrote:
Not too many critters can take a head shot with a .22 cal LR and its
as deadly when hit as it is with a 06' I have always heard theonly
feeling a person feels if shot in the head is where the skin and meat
is compromised, and that the brain itself has no nerve endings and
doesnot feel any pain itself, so hell a 22 even if it did not outright
kill the critter, is not gonna feel all that much, even if its doing
all kinds of death throes..........it only feels the hole the 22 made,
and the rest is just nerve reactions making it look grossly like a lot
of pain.


You may be right but I have heard the sound of an individual brain cell
as it dies . Sounds just like a human scream . It was the brain cell of
a lab rat . Not sure if that matters . About the only thing I shoot with
a 22LR is Grouse . I was given an old Cooey single shot when I was a boy
and have used it for grouse ever since . I used to shoot a lot of
gophers when I was young but there are none near where I now live sadly
. In open fields it is a lot easier with the Swift for coyotes .
Ken Cutt


And the 'red mist" the Swift makes as its trademark tends to not
leave a wounded animal to crawl off and suffer.

Gunner, who has used the 22-250 with equal success on yodel dogs, or
the .243 in heavy barrel out past 400 meters when the .22 centerfires
run out of steam.



"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

Lew Hartswick wrote:
Frankly I'd rather have the coyotes than the darn neighbor cats and
dogs around craping in the yard.

I was really rooting for one of the local coyotes to make a meal of the
yappy minpin behind us.

Larry Jaques wrote:
Wait until the coyotes take out the pets, _then_ shoot them. I wish
some coyotes would take out a certain barker across the highway from
me. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
the day and night without quieting it.

There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.


Rex

how about antifreeze? Cut the side open on a gallon jug and put it out
where they frequent Keep your other pets away.
Idea two... Paint balls filled with pepper spray or some other foul
material.
Idea three... archery practice silent but deadly

On Fri, 12 May 2006 07:04:35 -0600, ED
wrote:

On Fri, 12 May 2006 09:10:34 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Fri, 12 May 2006 01:35:13 GMT, lid (~Roy)
wrote:

Amateurs--- get some M44 cyanide guns and do it properly
if poision is the tool of choice. A tad non selective for me
but much more humane than all this other crap suggested .

I recall a couple cases over the years where curious small children
managed to trigger an M44, even though the setter followed all the
directives for signage etc etc. Including IRRC..an illegal alien who
was coming over the border.

No survivors.

A long term solution for the OP is electric fencing, expensive
but works 100% and is totally non lethal.

ED


Its far simpler to simply mix in some antifreeze with the raw
hamburger.

But its an ugly ugly way to kill any animal. And you may kill some
that you dont want to kill.

Best to simply head shoot em.


Gunner

On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:32:23 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

"Mike" wrote in message
...
Pieces of sponge dipped in bacon grease ought to fix them up


I have seen coyote scat. Looks like they could pass a beer can. Please
explain how this sponge thing works.

Steve



============================================= =
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


"The importance of morality is that people behave themselves even if
nobody's watching. There are not enough cops and laws to replace
personal morality as a means to produce a civilized society. Indeed,
the police and criminal justice system are the last desperate line of
defense for a civilized society. Unfortunately, too many of us see
police, laws and the criminal justice system as society's first line
of defense." --Walter Williams

"Rex B" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
snip--

.. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
the day and night without quieting it.

There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.


Rex

I went through that with a neighbor years ago. His dog would light up
late at night and bark endlessly. I started calling him on the
phone---letting it ring until he answered, then hang up. It often took a
large number of rings to arouse him. I did that several times until he
finally got the message. He wasn't a neighbor I could talk to-----had a
tendency to ignore not only us, but the balance of the neighbors----so that
wasn't an option. Want to remain anonymous? Be certain to dial the code
that prevents caller ID from identifying you.

Harold

"daniel peterman" wrote in message
...
how about antifreeze?

Real bad idea. It attracts all kinds of critters, most of which are
desirable.

Harold

On Fri, 12 May 2006 16:57:33 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Fri, 12 May 2006 07:04:35 -0600, ED
wrote:

On Fri, 12 May 2006 09:10:34 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Fri, 12 May 2006 01:35:13 GMT, lid (~Roy)
wrote:

Amateurs--- get some M44 cyanide guns and do it properly
if poision is the tool of choice. A tad non selective for me
but much more humane than all this other crap suggested .

I recall a couple cases over the years where curious small children
managed to trigger an M44, even though the setter followed all the
directives for signage etc etc. Including IRRC..an illegal alien who
was coming over the border.

No survivors.

That's a new one to me, but anythings possible.
M44's are a restricted device, and with good reason.
But much better than compound 1080,
which is an extemely lethal substance and very dangerous IMO

The big sheep outfits hire arial gunners and
trappers paid for with public funds.

There's a wolf working east of here that is wrecking
havoc on the sheepmen. They make coyotes look
good.


ED

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On Fri, 12 May 2006 09:46:38 -0500, Rex B
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
Wait until the coyotes take out the pets, _then_ shoot them. I wish
some coyotes would take out a certain barker across the highway from
me. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
the day and night without quieting it.

There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.

Hartmann whistle and a TV satellite dish. A Hartmann whistle can
produce extremely intense ultrasound -- 150 dB or so. 120 dB is
threshold of pain for humans. 150 dB is 1000 times the sound power
of 120 dB. A Hartmann whistle runs on compressed air, can be easily
made with a lathe and perhaps a couple of silverbrazed joints.
Instant canine headache at ranges probably as far as a barking dog
would be bothersome.

The wavelength of 22 KHz ultrasound is slightly shorter than Ka band
microwave, so beamwidth (and gain) will be even better with ultrasound
than it is with microwave from Ka band satellites. Beamwidth would be
about 1 degree half power included angle, , which is an "illuminated
region" of about 42" dia at 200 ft.

The trick would be to discover where the device points, and then
put a sight on it for aiming at an actual target. A piezo tweeter
makes a pretty good ultrasound microphone for testing.

I have started to build one of these twice. The offending dog moved
away both times before I completed it. I still have the dish, though.

On 11 May 2006 11:20:35 -0700, "coondog" wrote:

clare wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2006 13:20:09 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

In article 2kJ8g.6230$zn1.995@clgrps13, says...
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

Anvils and wooden crates stencilled ACME prominently displayed around
the property.

Ned Simmons

12 guage shotgun and rock salt. If that doesn't work, substitute
buckshot.

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***


If rock salt does'nt catch their attention, they can't be salvaged.
Same goes for marauding dogs (sheep, chickens, cattle etc).


Excellent ....Non-lethal but very painful. Although the ACME idea is
pretty good also.


*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

Don, I'm not quite grasping what you intend.
Do you mount the Hartman whistle at the focal point of the dish, or do
you run it through a microphone/amp/tweeter?

For that matter, why not mount the whistle at near the offending
fenceline, connected, with a remote-actuated air valve?.
Could be a pull-wire, or some sort of R/C item.

That would also probably affect the noisy teenagers at 2:00 AM on
worknights. At least the girls would leave, and the boys would leave
shortly after

Don Foreman wrote:
On Fri, 12 May 2006 09:46:38 -0500, Rex B
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
Wait until the coyotes take out the pets, _then_ shoot them. I wish
some coyotes would take out a certain barker across the highway from
me. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
the day and night without quieting it.

There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.
Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.

Hartmann whistle and a TV satellite dish. A Hartmann whistle can
produce extremely intense ultrasound -- 150 dB or so. 120 dB is
threshold of pain for humans. 150 dB is 1000 times the sound power
of 120 dB. A Hartmann whistle runs on compressed air, can be easily
made with a lathe and perhaps a couple of silverbrazed joints.
Instant canine headache at ranges probably as far as a barking dog
would be bothersome.

The wavelength of 22 KHz ultrasound is slightly shorter than Ka band
microwave, so beamwidth (and gain) will be even better with ultrasound
than it is with microwave from Ka band satellites. Beamwidth would be
about 1 degree half power included angle, , which is an "illuminated
region" of about 42" dia at 200 ft.

The trick would be to discover where the device points, and then
put a sight on it for aiming at an actual target. A piezo tweeter
makes a pretty good ultrasound microphone for testing.

I have started to build one of these twice. The offending dog moved
away both times before I completed it. I still have the dish, though.

On Thu, 11 May 2006 14:12:45 -0500, Rex B
wrote:


Laurie Forbes wrote:
My neighbours have a problem with a pair of coyotes frequently coming v
close to their house (on an acreage) and threatening their dog and cats etc.
Was wondering if anyone could suggest some aversion therapy (other than
bullets or poison) to help deal with the problem.

We had this issue come up in our neighborhood recently. We're in a
suburban community which happens to not be in city limits (thank God).
Coyotes have been coming into backyards and making a racket, probably
thinning the cat population.
At a neighborhood association meeting we asked the sheriff's deputy
attending, for advice. "Shoot 'em. They aren't protected, they will eat
your pets and they can threaten humans".

Sinse the fox family and I think a pair of Coyotes moved in a few
blocks away (undeveloped parkland and stormwater management area)the
rabbit population has really dropped of. Still too many of 'em, but
not so bad you can't drive down the road without hitting a few any
more. Wish something would start feasting on the tree rats!

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

In article , Don Foreman says...

The trick would be to discover where the device points, and then
put a sight on it for aiming at an actual target. A piezo tweeter
makes a pretty good ultrasound microphone for testing.

Heh. Doggy-B-gone meets home shop machinist/EE.

Telescopic sights. Parabolic dishes. Home-built stepper motor
azimuth/elevation drives.

Closed loop tracking system.

Poor coyote doesn't have a chance. He'll have to start importing
the poor things to provide a proper target-rich environment
for the testing phase.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Fri, 12 May 2006 10:50:58 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Rex B" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
snip--

. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
the day and night without quieting it.

There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.


Rex

Around here you just call the Authorities. At $600 a crack, it doesn't
take long to get the message across!!!!!!

I went through that with a neighbor years ago. His dog would light up
late at night and bark endlessly. I started calling him on the
phone---letting it ring until he answered, then hang up. It often took a
large number of rings to arouse him. I did that several times until he
finally got the message. He wasn't a neighbor I could talk to-----had a
tendency to ignore not only us, but the balance of the neighbors----so that
wasn't an option. Want to remain anonymous? Be certain to dial the code
that prevents caller ID from identifying you.

Harold



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clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
the day and night without quieting it.

There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.
Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.

I live outside city limits, and glad of it.
I'll put up with the barking dog as part of the many freedoms I enjoy
without things like city inspectors, firearms restrictions etc.

On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:30:46 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


Sounds as exciting as wild pigs in Texas.

Steve

I'm not sure if that is facetious remark but I do know something of
wild pigs.

If you want an adrenaline high that will take you a week to get off
of, picture this.

You're hanging by the horn off the side of a horse that is running
flat out. And you're urging him to go faster because the boar that
weighs half as much as the horse is making fringe out of your chaps.

You would forget that your original mission was to put out a salt
block if that block weren't in a feed sack tied to the saddle horn and
is now bloodying your nose.


--Andy Asberry recommends NewsGuy--

On Fri, 12 May 2006 15:52:58 -0500, Rex B
wrote:

Don, I'm not quite grasping what you intend.
Do you mount the Hartman whistle at the focal point of the dish, or do
you run it through a microphone/amp/tweeter?

At close range and full power the whistle would probably destroy the
microphone/tweeter.

Place it at the focus of the dish, which is where the LNA was. Those
dishes are offset fed sections of a paraboloid so it isn't obvious
where the line-of-sight is. So, a tweeter down range, with a meter
either with long wires or a spotting scope, to act as a mike/sensor.
Hunt around until you're hitting the mike, adjust focus for max output
(adjusting aim as necessary), then adjust optical sight so it's also
aimed at the distant mike.

Such a setup is slightly clandestine because it doesn't look like
it's pointing in the direction it is. If mounted upside down it would
look like it was pointed at the sky when it's line of sight would be
horizontal.


For that matter, why not mount the whistle at near the offending
fenceline, connected, with a remote-actuated air valve?.
Could be a pull-wire, or some sort of R/C item.

Might work, but the dish does provide a lot of directional gain in
the beam. A lot, a factor of several thousand over an
omnidirectional whistle.

That would also probably affect the noisy teenagers at 2:00 AM on
worknights. At least the girls would leave, and the boys would leave
shortly after

Don Foreman wrote:
On Fri, 12 May 2006 09:46:38 -0500, Rex B
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
Wait until the coyotes take out the pets, _then_ shoot them. I wish
some coyotes would take out a certain barker across the highway from
me. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
the day and night without quieting it.

There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.
Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.

Hartmann whistle and a TV satellite dish. A Hartmann whistle can
produce extremely intense ultrasound -- 150 dB or so. 120 dB is
threshold of pain for humans. 150 dB is 1000 times the sound power
of 120 dB. A Hartmann whistle runs on compressed air, can be easily
made with a lathe and perhaps a couple of silverbrazed joints.
Instant canine headache at ranges probably as far as a barking dog
would be bothersome.

The wavelength of 22 KHz ultrasound is slightly shorter than Ka band
microwave, so beamwidth (and gain) will be even better with ultrasound
than it is with microwave from Ka band satellites. Beamwidth would be
about 1 degree half power included angle, , which is an "illuminated
region" of about 42" dia at 200 ft.

The trick would be to discover where the device points, and then
put a sight on it for aiming at an actual target. A piezo tweeter
makes a pretty good ultrasound microphone for testing.

I have started to build one of these twice. The offending dog moved
away both times before I completed it. I still have the dish, though.

"Andy Asberry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 May 2006 17:30:46 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


Sounds as exciting as wild pigs in Texas.

Steve

I'm not sure if that is facetious remark but I do know something of
wild pigs.

If you want an adrenaline high that will take you a week to get off
of, picture this.

You're hanging by the horn off the side of a horse that is running
flat out. And you're urging him to go faster because the boar that
weighs half as much as the horse is making fringe out of your chaps.

You would forget that your original mission was to put out a salt
block if that block weren't in a feed sack tied to the saddle horn and
is now bloodying your nose.


Ayup. Feral hogs in Liberty and Montgomery county, just NE of Houston.

Steve

Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2006 21:07:06 -0700, Ken Cutt
wrote:


~Roy wrote:

Not too many critters can take a head shot with a .22 cal LR and its
as deadly when hit as it is with a 06' I have always heard theonly
feeling a person feels if shot in the head is where the skin and meat
is compromised, and that the brain itself has no nerve endings and
doesnot feel any pain itself, so hell a 22 even if it did not outright
kill the critter, is not gonna feel all that much, even if its doing
all kinds of death throes..........it only feels the hole the 22 made,
and the rest is just nerve reactions making it look grossly like a lot
of pain.


You may be right but I have heard the sound of an individual brain cell
as it dies . Sounds just like a human scream . It was the brain cell of
a lab rat . Not sure if that matters . About the only thing I shoot with
a 22LR is Grouse . I was given an old Cooey single shot when I was a boy
and have used it for grouse ever since . I used to shoot a lot of
gophers when I was young but there are none near where I now live sadly
. In open fields it is a lot easier with the Swift for coyotes .
Ken Cutt



And the 'red mist" the Swift makes as its trademark tends to not
leave a wounded animal to crawl off and suffer.

Gunner, who has used the 22-250 with equal success on yodel dogs, or
the .243 in heavy barrel out past 400 meters when the .22 centerfires
run out of steam.

I really do love my Swift but if I were to do it over I would go for a
22-250 . Cheaper brass and a lot less throat erosion . I like the 243
but I decided for real long shots to use my 06 . I figured the extra
practice with it would only help my hunting as that was my main gun . I
can't say as it really helped as I have never yet made a 400 yard shot
at big game . Doubt I will now . To be honest I made very few 200 yard
shots while hunting big stuff .
Ken Cutt

clare at snyder.on.ca wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 May 2006 10:50:58 -0700, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Rex B" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:
snip--

. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
the day and night without quieting it.

There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day
with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new
perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.


Rex

Around here you just call the Authorities. At $600 a crack, it doesn't
take long to get the message across!!!!!!

Now that's a punishment I could get into. I'm not all that patient with
people that think their right to "own" a critter exceed my rights to not
have to put up with the damned thing. I'd be quick to sign the complaint.

Harold

On Sat, 13 May 2006 00:47:01 GMT, "Laurie Forbes"
wrote:

A charming bunch you are - I'm sorry I asked.

So are we. This is a metal working ng, remember?

Perhaps you should ask Oprah or Dr. Phil how to make coyotes go bye,
bye without hurting their feelings.

You know, I was (still am) really in favor of women taking over th'
world. But you guys are just plain inadequate to complete th' various
tasks at hand. Put yer bra back on Laurie and go wash th' dishes.

Snarl

On Sat, 13 May 2006 00:47:01 GMT, Laurie Forbes wrote:

A charming bunch you are - I'm sorry I asked.
Thanks however to those few who provided intelligent responses to my
query.............

Translation: I already knew what I wanted to hear, and the rest of us
are just wrong.

We had a mixed dog an Coyote - it was a good English collie mix.
He lived to 14. He was a fantastic dog - knowing the wild and the work.
We would leave it for a day or two with food in the house and water -
come back with him sitting at the front window. Then he would eat and drink.

A mix really helps - but the dog even knowing our friends well wouldn't let
anyone near the house while we were gone. Gentle as ever. Good friend.

But he wasn't a wild one.


Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member


~Roy wrote:
IMHO I could care less if it hurts a coyote or not, as long as it
kills the SOB's........and not just scare it away.preferably a long
slow death....well not realy long and slow and quick would be best,
but I really hate those *******s with a passion. This area is loaded
with them. Even the state bombs them with poison baits from aircraft
and they stillmultiply like crazy. One year I shot 14 of them without
even trying. The kills were all accomplished on my way to or from
work or just by happen chance to see them when I had a gun handy.....I
imagine if I hunted them with a predator call etc I oucl deaily have
more than doubled that number.......

A few years back I found 3 little coyote pups in a den. Gave two away
and kept the third, a female.....it was not like a wolf or fox by
anymeans, and no matter how kind it ws treated, it wsa just as unreuly
and mean as a wild reared pup would have been. I gave it to the
wildlife officer up the road, who shot it in the end. None of the
other two pups were able to be trained either, and were also
destroyed......Its not uncommon to see them setting along the
interstate watching cars go buy without a care in the world.


On Thu, 11 May 2006 19:15:49 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
wrote:


"Bruce L. Bergman" wrote in message
om...
On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:24:07 GMT, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
wrote:
Lloyd: You just failed the r.c.m reading comprehension test.

Nope, the OP's friends didn't want to hurt them. A clean kill doesn't hurt,
and it's the best aversion therapy for coyotes. They're smart enough to pay
attention.

Sometimes, the best solution ignores some design parameters.

LLoyd




==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

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Around here you just call the Authorities. At $600 a crack, it doesn't
take long to get the message across!!!!!!

Warning, this is a bit long.

How I spent my last summer vacation.

The dog across the street, a lovely Lab, was left alone by its owners, who
worked at a local casino from 6pm to 2am. They left at 5 and came home
around 3-4 am. The dog would bark in three barks, wait five seconds, and do
it again, and again, and again for ten hours.

We sent anonymous letters asking that they do something about the dog. No
results.

We called the police who gave us Animal Control's number. They said we
could sign a complaint, but then we would have to go to court as the victim
in order for the thing to proceed, and the neighbor would know who turned
them in. We wanted to keep peace in the neighborhood, and since this guy
looked like a Soprano affiliate, we opted to try something else.

It was evening on the first call to Animal Control, and we got a recording.
After that, we called and called and called every day. We were almost
always channelled to a recording device, and when we did talk to a human,
they said that they had sent out an officer, and the dog was not barking. I
think they used their caller ID to avoid us. When we called in while the
dog was barking, we would walk in front of the house with our phone and say,
"Can you hear this dog barking?" woof, woof, woof ............. woof, woof,
woof ...................... woof, woof, woof .......
(the sound of a Lab barking)

One day, Animal Control called us at 4:30 AM to tell us that they had sent
an officer out there, and the dog was not barking. My wife fielded the
call, and acted just like she was up anyway. She's a light sleeper. Not
sure why they called us at 0430.

The dog kept on. We kept on calling.

Finally, we saw our councilman at church. We told him about the dog, the
0430 call from Animal Control, and the repeated reports. He said, "I will
take care of this," and that was all he said.

The dog stopped barking a couple of days later. I imagine a couple of butts
got chewed at Animal Control. We then got a letter from the DA's office
asking us if we wanted to file a complaint and prosecute. Along with that
question was a long list of things that we should know about before we filed
a complaint, including that we could be prosecuted for filing a false report
if it turned out to be unjustified, and that the people who owned the dog
might sue US for harassment.

But the dog did stop barking.

I own two dogs, but I was having some serious thoughts about doing harm to
that dog.

Steve

On Fri, 12 May 2006 16:30:14 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Rex
B quickly quoth:

clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
. The idiot owners allow it to bark for hours at a time all hours of
the day and night without quieting it.

There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.
Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.

I live outside city limits, and glad of it.
I'll put up with the barking dog as part of the many freedoms I enjoy
without things like city inspectors, firearms restrictions etc.

I live outside the city limits, too, so county noise regs aren't as
tight as city. Additionally, taxes are exactly HALF that of city
dwellers. But I still don't want to put up with barking dogs. I'll
see if I can get their name and phone number from their neighbors (who
may be as angry as I am at the constant noise.)

The noise level dropped 70% when I put in the dual-glazed windows, and
with foam earplugs, I can get right to sleep even if the GDMFSOB dog
is going off right then, so I've mellowed out a whole lot since it
first started.

These sock cucking dog owners all must be STONE DEAF, y'reckon?


---
"Money can't buy you happiness...but it does bring you a more pleasant
form of misery." -- Spike Milligan
---
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Don Foreman wrote:

The wavelength of 22 KHz ultrasound is slightly shorter than Ka band
microwave,

Umm...?

Kevin Gallimore

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We used to have a couple of dozen cats. Now we have just two or three
black ones, which I think were simply too dark for the coyote to see,
because he only came at night. I'm glad that the cats are gone,
myself, but I do understand how this could be a problem for somebody
else.

On Fri, 12 May 2006 21:34:14 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 12 May 2006 15:23:03 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Don
Foreman quickly quoth:

On Fri, 12 May 2006 09:46:38 -0500, Rex B
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

There are times I'd like to stake the owner to the yard for a day with
the barker a foot away from his ear. He might glean a new perspective,
I reckon.

Larry, if you figure out a solution to that problem, let me know.
I have the exact same problem behind me.

Hartmann whistle and a TV satellite dish. A Hartmann whistle can
produce extremely intense ultrasound -- 150 dB or so. 120 dB is
threshold of pain for humans. 150 dB is 1000 times the sound power
of 120 dB. A Hartmann whistle runs on compressed air, can be easily
made with a lathe and perhaps a couple of silverbrazed joints.
Instant canine headache at ranges probably as far as a barking dog
would be bothersome.

Excellent!


The wavelength of 22 KHz ultrasound is slightly shorter than Ka band
microwave, so beamwidth (and gain) will be even better with ultrasound
than it is with microwave from Ka band satellites. Beamwidth would be
about 1 degree half power included angle, , which is an "illuminated
region" of about 42" dia at 200 ft.

I wonder what the sound level would be at 1,000'. The offending pet is
across a 2 acre field, the RR tracks, and a street.

I think atmospheric absorption might be excessive at much over 200
feet. Massa's book on Ultrasonics may have charts, if I can find it
in the basement.



The trick would be to discover where the device points, and then
put a sight on it for aiming at an actual target. A piezo tweeter
makes a pretty good ultrasound microphone for testing.

I have started to build one of these twice. The offending dog moved
away both times before I completed it. I still have the dish, though.

If you would like to build 3 (so you're never caught short again, the
NEXT time a mutt moves in) I'll see if Rex will go in with me to pay
your costs. I don't have a lathe yet, but do have a spare Dish Network
dish. What wavelength are those, anyway? (OoK, Wiki say "KU band.")

I think DirecTV is in the range of 12.2 to 12.7 GHz, lambda of about
1.8 cm or 0.72 in. 22 KHz ultrasound has lambda of 1.5 cm or 0.6 in,
pretty comparable.

I'm stacked with projects at the moment, but I'll put a Hartmann back
on the "ta do" list. Right now I'm trying to add electric drive to
my boat lift winch and "goin' to the lake" time is getting real close
even in MN. I'm adding some sprockets and adapting the motor and
planetary gear drive from a scrounged ATV winch. I'd rather push a
button than wind that 40" handwheel 40 revs with 20 lb of tangential
force every time I wanna go out for a little while. A commercial
gadget to do this runs over $500. I have about $10 in it so far, my
time is free. Unfortunately, my wife has figured out the "my time
is free" concept so there are plenty of honeydo projects.

I'm also welding up a "drop dolly" so I can roll a new 36" high (on
casters) tool chest under my 33" high bench.

Man, I bet there are a bunch of wet, cold walleye fishers out there
today for the opener, but they might well catch some fish with
weather as lousy as it is. They'll earn 'em!





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form of misery." -- Spike Milligan
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On Fri, 12 May 2006 20:04:24 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:

Around here you just call the Authorities. At $600 a crack, it doesn't
take long to get the message across!!!!!!

Warning, this is a bit long.

How I spent my last summer vacation.

The dog across the street, a lovely Lab, was left alone by its owners, who
worked at a local casino from 6pm to 2am. They left at 5 and came home
around 3-4 am. The dog would bark in three barks, wait five seconds, and do
it again, and again, and again for ten hours.

We sent anonymous letters asking that they do something about the dog. No
results.

We called the police who gave us Animal Control's number. They said we
could sign a complaint, but then we would have to go to court as the victim
in order for the thing to proceed, and the neighbor would know who turned
them in. We wanted to keep peace in the neighborhood, and since this guy
looked like a Soprano affiliate, we opted to try something else.

It was evening on the first call to Animal Control, and we got a recording.
After that, we called and called and called every day. We were almost
always channelled to a recording device, and when we did talk to a human,
they said that they had sent out an officer, and the dog was not barking. I
think they used their caller ID to avoid us. When we called in while the
dog was barking, we would walk in front of the house with our phone and say,
"Can you hear this dog barking?" woof, woof, woof ............. woof, woof,
woof ...................... woof, woof, woof .......
(the sound of a Lab barking)

One day, Animal Control called us at 4:30 AM to tell us that they had sent
an officer out there, and the dog was not barking. My wife fielded the
call, and acted just like she was up anyway. She's a light sleeper. Not
sure why they called us at 0430.

The dog kept on. We kept on calling.

Finally, we saw our councilman at church. We told him about the dog, the
0430 call from Animal Control, and the repeated reports. He said, "I will
take care of this," and that was all he said.

The dog stopped barking a couple of days later. I imagine a couple of butts
got chewed at Animal Control. We then got a letter from the DA's office
asking us if we wanted to file a complaint and prosecute. Along with that
question was a long list of things that we should know about before we filed
a complaint, including that we could be prosecuted for filing a false report
if it turned out to be unjustified, and that the people who owned the dog
might sue US for harassment.

But the dog did stop barking.

I own two dogs, but I was having some serious thoughts about doing harm to
that dog.

Steve

I'm glad you didn't harm the dog. It's the owners that are to blame.
A lab can be broken of the barking habit. Been there, done that. My
beloved Charlie fell into that for a little while when she was about
5. I got a couple of friendly complaints. What finally worked was
to duct-tape her mouth shut for about 4 hours on a cool day when
panting wasn't required. Man, she hated that duct tape! After 4
hours of silent solitude and eventual resignation to her misery, the
tape was removed none too gently and then she got a dairy queen as
reward for her (enforced) good behavior. Man, that dog loved her
ice cream cones!

Lesson learned, was never forgotten for the remainder of her 18-year
life. I know labs aren't supposed to live that long, but Charlie
didn't know that.

I don't know for sure that the ultrasonic headache would train a
distant dog, but I kinda think it might. ARF --OW! And so on.

If lead poisoning doesn't work, then just mix large quantities of rat
poison with some hamburger. Keep your own pets chained or locked up
until the crisis is over. Any extra critters you nail this way are just
a bonus. Had some neighbors out here in the country threaten to shoot
our dogs for being on their property, well we're farm people too.
Needless to say they got the pictures of their dogs on our property
handed to them along with two shotgun shells. That took the wind out of
their sails right quick. Anyway, what I was trying to say with that
little story, is if one of the neighborhood pets gets into your coyote
treat, oh well, that's the risk you take when you let your pets run
free.

On Sat, 13 May 2006 12:07:39 -0400, axolotl
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:

The wavelength of 22 KHz ultrasound is slightly shorter than Ka band
microwave,

Umm...?

Kevin Gallimore

Um what, Kevin? Speed of sound in air is about 1100 ft/sec, speed
of em radiation is 3*10^8 meters/sec. Downlink part of Ka band is
about 18 GHz, lambda is about 1.67 cm. Lambda of 22000 Hz sound in
air is about 1.52 cm.

DirecTV is in Ku band between 12.2 to 12.7 Ghz, lambda is about 2.4
cm.

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Don Foreman wrote:

Um what, Kevin?

Um.. Kevin had another rough week, and his abused mind sped right by
"ultrasound" without looking.


Kevin Gallimore

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On Fri, 12 May 2006 18:48:33 -0700, wrote:

On Sat, 13 May 2006 00:47:01 GMT, "Laurie Forbes"
wrote:

A charming bunch you are - I'm sorry I asked.

So are we. This is a metal working ng, remember?

Perhaps you should ask Oprah or Dr. Phil how to make coyotes go bye,
bye without hurting their feelings.

You know, I was (still am) really in favor of women taking over th'
world. But you guys are just plain inadequate to complete th' various
tasks at hand. Put yer bra back on Laurie and go wash th' dishes.

Snarl

Im fascinated by the sheer numbers of touchy feelie types that when
confronted with the grim realities of life..go all atitter. One would
assume that they are the same type that assumes hamburger comes from a
factory in those little styrofoam trays, not a bawling ****ting
terrified 1000 lb organism who is dragged onto a killing floor and
bashed with a slegehammer or electrocuted, then hoist by a high speed
crane, ripped open with a massive flood of guts and blood, then sliced
to bits with power saws..

Those of you with tender sensibilities..why not take a day trip to the
nearest slaughterhouse for a tour, then go home and have a nice steak
and a fine bottle of wine to enjoy while thinking over the days tour.

Gunner

The aim of untold millions is to be free to do exactly as they choose
and for someone else to pay when things go wrong.

In the past few decades, a peculiar and distinctive psychology
has emerged in England. Gone are the civility, sturdy independence,
and admirable stoicism that carried the English through the war years
.. It has been replaced by a constant whine of excuses, complaints,
and special pleading. The collapse of the British character has been
as swift and complete as the collapse of British power.

Theodore Dalrymple,