After much investigation and advice from this group, I have decided to
get hold of some welding equipment for some light duty fabrication.
Basically, I build steel cells for telescope optics, where the optical
elements being supported weigh 15-30lbs. These cells are typically
constructed of 3/4" square x-section steel tubing with a wall diameter
of 1/16". The lengths of the sections range from 10-20" long. They are
assembled into rectangular frames, with diagonal supports, with sides
the lengths of the above sections. I have plenty of scrap to practice
on, and will be building these frames/cells from time to time. I am
getting tired of drilling, cutting and bolting, and would like to
venture into MIG. What MIG welder would you all reccomend for this type
of work. I will be using household current. Also, would flux or gas be
preferable. Finally, for cutting these lengths of tubing, what would be
an improvement on my hacksaw? I have used a rotozip with a metal
cutting wheel, but find this a bit awkward.
Joe

Joe,

I believe both Lincoln and Miller make small portable 110V Mig welders.
I have a blacksmithing friend who has the Lincoln version and loves it.
I have heard the recommendation that it is better to buy a name brand
that will be readily available to your area so that you can get parts
and service if needed. From a conversation with a welding instructor, I
was told that the extra equipment and expense for gas shielding is WAY
better than flux core. For cutting parts, assuming these are straight
90 degree or angle cuts, a quick alternative is a chop saw. I have a
small horiz./vertical bandsaw in my shop and that works great too.

Hope this helps,

Paul

On 5 May 2006 08:53:15 -0700, "Joe" wrote:

After much investigation and advice from this group, I have decided to
get hold of some welding equipment for some light duty fabrication.
Basically, I build steel cells for telescope optics, where the optical
elements being supported weigh 15-30lbs. These cells are typically
constructed of 3/4" square x-section steel tubing with a wall diameter
of 1/16". The lengths of the sections range from 10-20" long. They are
assembled into rectangular frames, with diagonal supports, with sides
the lengths of the above sections. I have plenty of scrap to practice
on, and will be building these frames/cells from time to time. I am
getting tired of drilling, cutting and bolting, and would like to
venture into MIG. What MIG welder would you all reccomend for this type
of work. I will be using household current. Also, would flux or gas be
preferable. Finally, for cutting these lengths of tubing, what would be
an improvement on my hacksaw? I have used a rotozip with a metal
cutting wheel, but find this a bit awkward.
Joe

The litttle 110-volt MIG boxes would work very nicely for this. I
would recommend going with name brand: Lincoln, Hobart or Miller.
They cost a bit more, work a lot better. MIG will be more expensive
than fluxcore because you need a gas bottle and regulator, but it'll
make much nicer-looking welds without spatter or smoke. For gas, CO2
is cheapest but argon-CO2 mix makes nicer welds in thin metal.

The cheapest cutting solution is an abrasive chopsaw. They work well
but they're noisy and dirty. A better (and more expensive) solution
is a portable bandsaw -- though Jeff Wisnia says his $79 portable
bandsaw from Harbor Freight works just fine. The bandsaw is not
noisy, doesn't throw sparks, and it doesn't leave a nasty burr like
a chopsaw does. Either of these will cut your tubing in a couple of
seconds per cut. It's easier to get square or miter cuts with the
chopsaw but you can get good square cuts with the portable bandsaw
after a bit of practice.

If you have the floor space, some say that the HF horizontal bandsaws
for under $200 on sale work pretty well. Square or miter cuts should
be easy to do with one of these, once it's set up right.

On Fri, 05 May 2006 11:52:10 -0500, Don Foreman wrote:
The cheapest cutting solution is an abrasive chopsaw. They work well
but they're noisy and dirty. A better (and more expensive) solution
is a portable bandsaw -- though Jeff Wisnia says his $79 portable
bandsaw from Harbor Freight works just fine.

Mine works fine as well.

The bandsaw is not noisy, doesn't throw sparks, and it doesn't leave
a nasty burr like a chopsaw does.

But it is much harder to make nice square cuts.

i

On Fri, 05 May 2006 11:52:10 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On 5 May 2006 08:53:15 -0700, "Joe" wrote:

After much investigation and advice from this group, I have decided to
get hold of some welding equipment for some light duty fabrication.
Basically, I build steel cells for telescope optics, where the optical
elements being supported weigh 15-30lbs. These cells are typically
constructed of 3/4" square x-section steel tubing with a wall diameter
of 1/16". The lengths of the sections range from 10-20" long. They are
assembled into rectangular frames, with diagonal supports, with sides
the lengths of the above sections. I have plenty of scrap to practice
on, and will be building these frames/cells from time to time. I am
getting tired of drilling, cutting and bolting, and would like to
venture into MIG. What MIG welder would you all reccomend for this type
of work. I will be using household current. Also, would flux or gas be
preferable. Finally, for cutting these lengths of tubing, what would be
an improvement on my hacksaw? I have used a rotozip with a metal
cutting wheel, but find this a bit awkward.
Joe

The litttle 110-volt MIG boxes would work very nicely for this. I
would recommend going with name brand: Lincoln, Hobart or Miller.
They cost a bit more, work a lot better. MIG will be more expensive
than fluxcore because you need a gas bottle and regulator, but it'll
make much nicer-looking welds without spatter or smoke. For gas, CO2
is cheapest but argon-CO2 mix makes nicer welds in thin metal.

The cheapest cutting solution is an abrasive chopsaw. They work well
but they're noisy and dirty. A better (and more expensive) solution
is a portable bandsaw -- though Jeff Wisnia says his $79 portable
bandsaw from Harbor Freight works just fine. The bandsaw is not
noisy, doesn't throw sparks, and it doesn't leave a nasty burr like
a chopsaw does. Either of these will cut your tubing in a couple of
seconds per cut. It's easier to get square or miter cuts with the
chopsaw but you can get good square cuts with the portable bandsaw
after a bit of practice.

If you have the floor space, some say that the HF horizontal bandsaws
for under $200 on sale work pretty well. Square or miter cuts should
be easy to do with one of these, once it's set up right.

PS Two other very useful tools: an inexpensive (HF) angle grinder
and an autodarkening mask. I'd regard the autodark mask as
indispensable. HF has several models. I don't know which is the
"good" one, but Gunner does so maybe he'll chime in here. I think the
one he declared to be good is about $50. For cleanup, I prefer
50-grit sanding discs to a grinding wheel. They last a surprisingly
long time and they can make your good MIG welds invisible after a coat
of paint.

I would *not* buy a MIG welder from HF. Been there done that. My
light MIG welding (autobody) improved dramatically when I got my
little Lincoln SP125 plus.

On Fri, 05 May 2006 16:39:38 GMT, Ignoramus22440
wrote:

On 5 May 2006 08:53:15 -0700, Joe wrote:
After much investigation and advice from this group, I have decided to
get hold of some welding equipment for some light duty fabrication.
Basically, I build steel cells for telescope optics, where the optical
elements being supported weigh 15-30lbs. These cells are typically
constructed of 3/4" square x-section steel tubing with a wall diameter
of 1/16". The lengths of the sections range from 10-20" long. They are
assembled into rectangular frames, with diagonal supports, with sides
the lengths of the above sections. I have plenty of scrap to practice
on, and will be building these frames/cells from time to time. I am
getting tired of drilling, cutting and bolting, and would like to
venture into MIG. What MIG welder would you all reccomend for this type
of work. I will be using household current. Also, would flux or gas be
preferable. Finally, for cutting these lengths of tubing, what would be
an improvement on my hacksaw? I have used a rotozip with a metal
cutting wheel, but find this a bit awkward.

I am not a big expert on welding, but I think that for such thin
stuff, TIG would work better for you.

Nope. MIG is perfect for this work. TIG is slow, expensive first
cost, takes more learning, and there's more heat distortion. The
small MIGs work great from about .024 up thru about 1/8". It's what
they do and they do it very well.

On Fri, 05 May 2006 16:59:23 GMT, Ignoramus22440
wrote:

On Fri, 05 May 2006 11:52:10 -0500, Don Foreman wrote:
The cheapest cutting solution is an abrasive chopsaw. They work well
but they're noisy and dirty. A better (and more expensive) solution
is a portable bandsaw -- though Jeff Wisnia says his $79 portable
bandsaw from Harbor Freight works just fine.

Mine works fine as well.

The bandsaw is not noisy, doesn't throw sparks, and it doesn't leave
a nasty burr like a chopsaw does.

But it is much harder to make nice square cuts.

Not with a little practice. I have no problem at all getting square
cuts. Miters are a bit trickier, but certainly can be done well with
a bit of practice.

A chopsaw works and it's quick, but the sparks can start a fire quite
easily and they can fly several feet. I would not use one indoors.

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
After much investigation and advice from this group, I have decided to
get hold of some welding equipment for some light duty fabrication.
Basically, I build steel cells for telescope optics, where the optical
elements being supported weigh 15-30lbs. These cells are typically
constructed of 3/4" square x-section steel tubing with a wall diameter
of 1/16". The lengths of the sections range from 10-20" long. They are
assembled into rectangular frames, with diagonal supports, with sides
the lengths of the above sections. I have plenty of scrap to practice
on, and will be building these frames/cells from time to time. I am
getting tired of drilling, cutting and bolting, and would like to
venture into MIG. What MIG welder would you all reccomend for this type
of work. I will be using household current. Also, would flux or gas be
preferable. Finally, for cutting these lengths of tubing, what would be
an improvement on my hacksaw? I have used a rotozip with a metal
cutting wheel, but find this a bit awkward.
Joe

220 split phase IS household power! Get the welder one model better that
you think will do nicely, you won't regret it. Use gas, 75% argon 25%
CO2 -"Stargon" is a common name for it. Get a big tank, little tanks often
need to be rolled around to mix properly. Use .025"-.030" wire. A band saw
would be my first choice, it should hold close enough. Get an "auto-dark"
helmet. Get LOTS of wire brushes, use once and replace.

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
After much investigation and advice from this group, I have decided to
get hold of some welding equipment for some light duty fabrication.
Basically, I build steel cells for telescope optics, where the optical
elements being supported weigh 15-30lbs. These cells are typically
constructed of 3/4" square x-section steel tubing with a wall diameter
of 1/16". The lengths of the sections range from 10-20" long. They are
assembled into rectangular frames, with diagonal supports, with sides
the lengths of the above sections. I have plenty of scrap to practice
on, and will be building these frames/cells from time to time. I am
getting tired of drilling, cutting and bolting, and would like to
venture into MIG. What MIG welder would you all reccomend for this type
of work. I will be using household current. Also, would flux or gas be
preferable. Finally, for cutting these lengths of tubing, what would be
an improvement on my hacksaw? I have used a rotozip with a metal
cutting wheel, but find this a bit awkward.
Joe

Get a Miller or Lincoln 110v. MIG with shielding gas. Flux core wire will
fry the thin stuff you are trying to weld. Get a small horizontal band saw
from Harbor Freight, about $150 or less on sale. It will be light years
ahead of an abrasive chop saw. No sparks or dust or noise to speak of
compared with an abrasive chop saw. I made four cuts this morning of 2" x
2" x .250" tube, and no sweat.

As mentioned before, totally precise accurate cuts can be a little
difficult, but if you square the blade and scribe the fence in the right
location, it isn't hard. And IF a cut is off, a MIG can easily fill the
gap.

Use short spot welds, and it will look as clean as a TIG weld.

Buy a gas bottle instead of leasing one. Much cheaper. If you are going
to be doing a lot, buy two bottles, because they always go empty on a Friday
afternoon.

Use the smaller wire, probably .023" as it will give you a smaller bead.
Try to weld so you only have to wire brush buff it, and not grind off any
metal.

DO NOT cheap out and buy a piece of crap welder. If you buy a Miller or
Lincoln, chances are it will start first time every time, and if you do have
a problem with it, there is no problem getting parts or service. The same
can't be said for Fukkumamma foreign brands.

The little HF saw will be more than adequate, but you will probably want to
make a table for it, even put it on casters. Buy some feed rollers to hold
up the 20" lengths of material so they don't sag and give you crooked cuts.
Have something supporting or catching the drops, too. When you make your
support table (they come with a POS support table), make a flat square
bordered area to hold your tape, soapstone, and cut pieces.

When you cut, you can stack two or three high, or do multiples of pieces by
stacking them in square or rectangular configurations. Just don't do too
many or you will be waiting a while. Clean off the burrs with a small
grinder, and clean them with a solvent, and dry them with a dry clean rag.
This will help if you want to paint them later. Or just clear coat them.

What you are going to be doing is moving from cutting and drilling and
bolting to working with Tinker Toys and a hot glue gun. It will be light
years easier and faster. Your productivity and quality will soar.

Just some tips.

Steve

"Don Foreman" wrote

A chopsaw works and it's quick, but the sparks can start a fire quite
easily and they can fly several feet. I would not use one indoors.

I had a new Makita 14" chop saw stolen about a year ago. I replaced it with
a HF horizontal band saw. I don't miss that obnoxious noisy beast one bit.

I can set several pieces of metal cutting at once, drop the blade, and walk
off and do something else. With a little attention to details, I can get
good cuts. And with a MIG, if it is a little off, I just use a square, and
fill the gaps. It don't have to be perfect anyway, and a gap gives a little
better strength by providing a root for the joint.

Why did I EVER use a chop saw?

Steve

"Tom Gardner" wrote

Get LOTS of wire brushes, use once and replace.


Say what?

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:UyQ6g.8410$QP4.7330@fed1read12...

"Tom Gardner" wrote

Get LOTS of wire brushes, use once and replace.


Say what?

Steve

Wire brushes become contaminated upon the first use, they MUST be replaced
after every use or you will contaminate the next workpiece. I'll bet you
haven't been disposing of your contaminated brushes, have you?

On Fri, 5 May 2006 15:44:04 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:
"Tom Gardner" wrote

Get LOTS of wire brushes, use once and replace.

Say what?

What do you expect him to say? ;-P

Actually, the proper statement would be more like:

"Buy a batch of my wire wheels and cup brushes - and don't be
surprised if they last three times as long as the junk Chinese wire
wheels you were using. And you were only looking at the shelf price
and thinking you were saving money."

He's got stringer knotted wheels, but only in 5/8"-11 for American
tools. IIRC, the Japanese and German makes have a metric arbor
thread, so unless you go buy a DeWalt/Milwaukee/Porter-Cable grinder
you are SOL...

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Sat, 06 May 2006 01:33:26 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"Steve B" wrote in message
news:UyQ6g.8410$QP4.7330@fed1read12...

"Tom Gardner" wrote

Get LOTS of wire brushes, use once and replace.


Say what?

Steve

Wire brushes become contaminated upon the first use, they MUST be replaced
after every use or you will contaminate the next workpiece. I'll bet you
haven't been disposing of your contaminated brushes, have you?

Tom can dispose of your noxiously - contaminated brushes for only
slightly more than the brushes cost in the first place. One stop
shopping!

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
om...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:UyQ6g.8410$QP4.7330@fed1read12...

"Tom Gardner" wrote

Get LOTS of wire brushes, use once and replace.


Say what?

Steve

Wire brushes become contaminated upon the first use, they MUST be replaced
after every use or you will contaminate the next workpiece. I'll bet you
haven't been disposing of your contaminated brushes, have you?

I use cup knot brushes and stringer brushes. The only thing I use a hand
wire brush for is my barbecue grills.

Steve

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
om...

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:UyQ6g.8410$QP4.7330@fed1read12...

"Tom Gardner" wrote

Get LOTS of wire brushes, use once and replace.


Say what?

Steve

Wire brushes become contaminated upon the first use, they MUST be replaced
after every use or you will contaminate the next workpiece. I'll bet you
haven't been disposing of your contaminated brushes, have you?

Gee .. know where to get good wire brushes?

Thanks to all. This helps alot. One final question:
For the gauge of steel (1/16"), what amp range am I looking at for
small MIG unit?
Joe

Thanks to all. This helps alot. One final question:
For the gauge of steel (1/16"), what amp range am I looking at for
small MIG unit?
Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks to all. This helps alot. One final question:
For the gauge of steel (1/16"), what amp range am I looking at for
small MIG unit?
Joe


Find the guide that comes with the machine. It is usually on the inside of
the cover. Learn how to use it. Your answer is going to depend on
thickness, type of gas, and size of wire. Learn to use this guide, and next
time you will know how to have your answer in seconds when you have
different materials.

Steve.

On 6 May 2006 07:35:27 -0700, "Joe" wrote:

Thanks to all. This helps alot. One final question:
For the gauge of steel (1/16"), what amp range am I looking at for
small MIG unit?
Joe

About any of them will do 1/16" Also look at duty cycle. The
little 110 boxes will definitely do the job, but if you'll be welding
pretty much nonstop then you'll prefer something like a 220-volt
180-amp machine like the Hobart Handler.

On the Lincoln SP125plus with .023" wire, , 1/16" steel with Ag25 gas
would be done at about 70% of max voltage. As a wild guess, I'd
expect about 50% dutycycle at this setting -- 5 minutes of arc time in
a given 10-minute period. That's actually quite a bit unless you're
doing production welding.

On Sat, 06 May 2006 02:02:58 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Fri, 5 May 2006 15:44:04 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:
"Tom Gardner" wrote

Get LOTS of wire brushes, use once and replace.

Say what?

What do you expect him to say? ;-P

Actually, the proper statement would be more like:

"Buy a batch of my wire wheels and cup brushes - and don't be
surprised if they last three times as long as the junk Chinese wire
wheels you were using. And you were only looking at the shelf price
and thinking you were saving money."

They last AT LEAST 3 times as long. Ive done jobs with Toms brushes
that were only a smidge used looking at the end..where the same job
before took 3-5 imported ones.

He's got stringer knotted wheels, but only in 5/8"-11 for American
tools. IIRC, the Japanese and German makes have a metric arbor
thread, so unless you go buy a DeWalt/Milwaukee/Porter-Cable grinder
you are SOL...

-- Bruce --

Only brushes Ill use on angle grinders are Toms. Well..used to use,
before that **** (still not caught) stole all my angle grinders. And m
favorite Rockwell wormdrive saw.....and....
I hope she dies of toxic shock syndrome.

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist