I'm a hobbiest just starting out, so I really don't want to throw a lot of
money into a mill for a few years.

I've been looking at low end mills (some import, some domestic) and one
thing that I've read about is freeplay on the shafts. Most that i've
fiddled with seem to have almost 1/4 turn of the shaft before the gears will
start moving the table. Is that normal?

For less than $1000-$1500 what low end mills are 'pretty good'?

Thanks

You can usually work around any play on a table on a mill, for the
most part, but less or none is best. The old saying you get what you
pay for. I can't say what are better ones or not, as I got burned when
I supposedly bought one of the better brands of limported lathes, and
my friend got screwed just as royal with the same brand of Milling
machine. Its one of those supposedly white painted pieces of
machinery..........no manes called!

Lots of folks are content with a harbor freight mill or lathe, and
the work they turn out is as fine as others making same things on high
end machines. I would look for one that will fit your budget. I am
sure there will be plenty of opijions as to which ones are better than
others, but for the most part its still a crap shoot. Put your eyes
and hands on the one you want to buy or are at least interested in and
give it a try. See if you can find someone in your area that has
similar interests and see if they will let yo try theirs out.
Usually though if you invest n a good machine to begin with you can
usually get a good return on it as compared to reselling a harbor
freight type machine. If you really look you can probably come up with
a good used american made mill perhaps even a Bridgeport. I would
rather own a bridgeport with a bit of slop than a tight china import
anyday, as its inevitable its going to need parts someday and that can
present problems on import machines.



On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:51:52 -0500, "Paul Farber"
wrote:

===I'm a hobbiest just starting out, so I really don't want to throw a lot of
===money into a mill for a few years.
===
===I've been looking at low end mills (some import, some domestic) and one
===thing that I've read about is freeplay on the shafts. Most that i've
===fiddled with seem to have almost 1/4 turn of the shaft before the gears will
===start moving the table. Is that normal?
===
===For less than $1000-$1500 what low end mills are 'pretty good'?
===
===Thanks
===

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In article ,
Paul Farber wrote:
I'm a hobbiest just starting out, so I really don't want to throw a lot of
money into a mill for a few years.

I've been looking at low end mills (some import, some domestic) and one
thing that I've read about is freeplay on the shafts. Most that i've
fiddled with seem to have almost 1/4 turn of the shaft before the gears will
start moving the table. Is that normal?

What gears? Normally the handcranks turn long screws in the
tables, with a nut mounted to the saddle for both the X and Y axis. No
gears involved on a vertical spindle mill -- unless you have an electric
power feed between the handcrank and the end of the table. For some
horizontal mills, there is a power takeoff from the spindle motor or from
a secondary motor run through a telescoping shaft and universal joints to
turn the leadscrew.

As for the backlash -- that is attributable to wear in the
threads -- but there are often adjustments for that -- and some amount
of backlash is inevitable unless it is so tight that it is difficult to
use (unless you have ball screws and nuts, as is common in CNC
machines), so normally people simply learn to compensate for that by
alway approaching from the same direction, so the backlash doesn't
count.

For less than $1000-$1500 what low end mills are 'pretty good'?

Hmm ... it depends on luck, but I got my Nichols horizontal
spindle mill for about $200.00 from eBay -- and nearly as much more for
shipping. (It weighs about 1100 pounds.) I later got a vertical head
for it, so I can use both formats.

If you want to see what it is like -- and what is involved in
bringing a really old one up to use more recent accessories (such as the
vertical head), you can visit my web page dealing with it.

http://www.d-and-d.com/NICHOLS-mill

Note that the company is long gone, but the equipment is sturdy and well
worthwhile.

There are others which will probably be as good, though I like
several of the features of the Nichols -- especially including the fact
that the horizontal spindle moves on vertical ways on the side of the
column (using a long lever connected to a sector gear).

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:51:52 -0500, "Paul Farber" wrote:
I'm a hobbiest just starting out, so I really don't want to throw a lot of
money into a mill for a few years.

I've been looking at low end mills (some import, some domestic) and one
thing that I've read about is freeplay on the shafts. Most that i've
fiddled with seem to have almost 1/4 turn of the shaft before the gears will
start moving the table. Is that normal?

Shouldn't be any gears in the table feeds. The handwheels should be
connected to threaded shafts called leadscrews with a nut fixed to the
movable portion of the table. Turning the handwheels causes the nut
to advance on the shaft, pulling (or pushing) the table along with it.

Anyway, the leadscrews have to turn in bearings in the fixed portions
of the machine. If there is no end clearance here, the shafts will bind.
This clearance is likely most of the free play you're feeling in a new
machine. This is adjustable with a preload nut, usually on the same
end of the shaft as the handwheel.

If the end clearance preload is adjusted tight, there's very little free
play. But it becomes difficult to turn the handwheel (binding). A half a
turn is too much, but some free play is required, maybe about 1/20th
of a turn. Most of the inexpensive imports are *not* adjusted properly
as shipped. You have to make this adjustment yourself.

The other source of sloppiness is the clearance needed between
the nut and the leadscrew. Again, zero clearance causes the
motion to bind. Some high end machines have an adjustment for
this too, called an anti-backlash adjustment, but most cheaper
machines don't. You have to live with whatever the factory provided.

Typically, this nut clearance will allow something on the order of
2 to 5 thousandths of an inch table motion in a new machine.
Less is better up to the point where the nut binds on the screw.

The problem is, just turning the handwheels in the store won't tell
you which source of sloppinesss it is that you are feeling. That's
because the display units typically don't have the end clearance
properly adjusted (because the store clerks either don't know how,
or don't care).

You can shove in fairly hard on the handwheel, then turn it back
and forth. Pressing in removes most of the leadscrew end play,
so the play you feel then is only the slop of the nut on the leadscrew.
That's what you'll have to live with if you buy the machine.

Gary

On 14 Mar 2004 18:03:58 -0500, (DoN. Nichols)
wrote:

In article ,
Paul Farber wrote:
I'm a hobbiest just starting out, so I really don't want to throw a lot of
money into a mill for a few years.

I've been looking at low end mills (some import, some domestic) and one
thing that I've read about is freeplay on the shafts. Most that i've
fiddled with seem to have almost 1/4 turn of the shaft before the gears will
start moving the table. Is that normal?

What gears? Normally the handcranks turn long screws in the
tables, with a nut mounted to the saddle for both the X and Y axis. No
gears involved on a vertical spindle mill -- unless you have an electric
power feed between the handcrank and the end of the table. For some
horizontal mills, there is a power takeoff from the spindle motor or from
a secondary motor run through a telescoping shaft and universal joints to
turn the leadscrew.

As for the backlash -- that is attributable to wear in the
threads -- but there are often adjustments for that -- and some amount
of backlash is inevitable unless it is so tight that it is difficult to
use (unless you have ball screws and nuts, as is common in CNC
machines), so normally people simply learn to compensate for that by
alway approaching from the same direction, so the backlash doesn't
count.

For less than $1000-$1500 what low end mills are 'pretty good'?

Hmm ... it depends on luck, but I got my Nichols horizontal
spindle mill for about $200.00 from eBay -- and nearly as much more for
shipping. (It weighs about 1100 pounds.) I later got a vertical head
for it, so I can use both formats.

If you want to see what it is like -- and what is involved in
bringing a really old one up to use more recent accessories (such as the
vertical head), you can visit my web page dealing with it.

http://www.d-and-d.com/NICHOLS-mill

Note that the company is long gone, but the equipment is sturdy and well
worthwhile.

There are others which will probably be as good, though I like
several of the features of the Nichols -- especially including the fact
that the horizontal spindle moves on vertical ways on the side of the
column (using a long lever connected to a sector gear).

Good Luck,
DoN.

in the same genre..the larger Barkes are also very good, and very
cheap to get a hold of. I know of a very nice Nicoles in Van Nuys
Califfornia, air/oil feed and everything for less than $500

Gunner

"Gun Control, the theory that a 110lb grandmother should
fist fight a 250lb 19yr old criminal"