OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

Thanks for all your help but the answer was a bit wierd. I guess a
small part of the foam air filter came loose and got sucked into the
cylinder and interfered with firing and let the valves leak.

I was trying the 'oil trick' (thanks Hippie...) and got up to 70#
compression when I added a bit of way oil and was able to get a
pop-pop-pop when cranking. Found some black gunk on top of the piston
and tried burning it out. No luck but did fix my eyebrows ;)

So I tried a bit of carb cleaner in the plug hole and an oxygen stream
from my oxy torch in the carb and cranked; got a steady stream of
pop-pops and kept cranking until the rpms picked up a bit then let it
run on its own until I got more revs, then turned the Oxy off and let it
idle by itself. It apparently burned up/blew out the gunk fairly
quickly and began operating normally. The Oxy injection allowed easier
hotter combustion to let the engine run and burn/flush the gunk out.

I shut it down to put the valve covers back on and checked the
compression - was back to the 100# it used to run. Restarted easily and
everything appears normal now. All from a crappy foam air filter. I
replaced the element with a piece of pantyhose, would like to find a
pleated filter to fit (dealer doesn't list any, even aftermarket).

Thanks for everyone's help
Nick

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 19:02:37 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:

Thanks for all your help but the answer was a bit wierd. I guess a
small part of the foam air filter came loose and got sucked into the
cylinder and interfered with firing and let the valves leak.

I was trying the 'oil trick' (thanks Hippie...) and got up to 70#
compression when I added a bit of way oil and was able to get a
pop-pop-pop when cranking. Found some black gunk on top of the piston
and tried burning it out. No luck but did fix my eyebrows ;)

So I tried a bit of carb cleaner in the plug hole and an oxygen stream
from my oxy torch in the carb and cranked; got a steady stream of
pop-pops and kept cranking until the rpms picked up a bit then let it
run on its own until I got more revs, then turned the Oxy off and let it
idle by itself. It apparently burned up/blew out the gunk fairly
quickly and began operating normally. The Oxy injection allowed easier
hotter combustion to let the engine run and burn/flush the gunk out.

I shut it down to put the valve covers back on and checked the
compression - was back to the 100# it used to run. Restarted easily and
everything appears normal now. All from a crappy foam air filter. I
replaced the element with a piece of pantyhose, would like to find a
pleated filter to fit (dealer doesn't list any, even aftermarket).

Thanks for everyone's help
Nick

Nearly any dirt bike shop, both physical and online will have
aftermarket pleated filters. Including JC Whitney..well..they did last
time I ordered from them

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

In article ,
Gunner wrote:

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 19:02:37 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:

Thanks for all your help but the answer was a bit wierd. I guess a
small part of the foam air filter came loose and got sucked into the
cylinder and interfered with firing and let the valves leak.

I was trying the 'oil trick' (thanks Hippie...) and got up to 70#
compression when I added a bit of way oil and was able to get a
pop-pop-pop when cranking. Found some black gunk on top of the piston
and tried burning it out. No luck but did fix my eyebrows ;)

So I tried a bit of carb cleaner in the plug hole and an oxygen stream
from my oxy torch in the carb and cranked; got a steady stream of
pop-pops and kept cranking until the rpms picked up a bit then let it
run on its own until I got more revs, then turned the Oxy off and let it
idle by itself. It apparently burned up/blew out the gunk fairly
quickly and began operating normally. The Oxy injection allowed easier
hotter combustion to let the engine run and burn/flush the gunk out.

I shut it down to put the valve covers back on and checked the
compression - was back to the 100# it used to run. Restarted easily and
everything appears normal now. All from a crappy foam air filter. I
replaced the element with a piece of pantyhose, would like to find a
pleated filter to fit (dealer doesn't list any, even aftermarket).

Thanks for everyone's help
Nick

Nearly any dirt bike shop, both physical and online will have
aftermarket pleated filters. Including JC Whitney..well..they did last
time I ordered from them

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

I've found lots for other ATVs but not yet for a 83 Kawasaki 3-wheeler
250 Prairie. There must be a cross reference somewhere as to what other
bike/atv uses the same filter.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

Nick Hull wrote:


I've found lots for other ATVs but not yet for a 83 Kawasaki 3-wheeler
250 Prairie. There must be a cross reference somewhere as to what other
bike/atv uses the same filter.

Or maby not, explaining why nobody has one that fits.
Try a motocros or ATV vendor that stocks the various lines and see if
they can find a "universal" air filter kit that will attach to your
carb. I was getting parts for the Mikuni single carb conversion that I
had on my Norton 850 from a snowmobile dealership. Just a used a filter
with a built in rubber sleeve that hoseclamped onto the carb. Nothing
special, but way better than nothing.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 01:41:20 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner wrote:

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 19:02:37 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:

Thanks for all your help but the answer was a bit wierd. I guess a
small part of the foam air filter came loose and got sucked into the
cylinder and interfered with firing and let the valves leak.

I was trying the 'oil trick' (thanks Hippie...) and got up to 70#
compression when I added a bit of way oil and was able to get a
pop-pop-pop when cranking. Found some black gunk on top of the piston
and tried burning it out. No luck but did fix my eyebrows ;)

So I tried a bit of carb cleaner in the plug hole and an oxygen stream
from my oxy torch in the carb and cranked; got a steady stream of
pop-pops and kept cranking until the rpms picked up a bit then let it
run on its own until I got more revs, then turned the Oxy off and let it
idle by itself. It apparently burned up/blew out the gunk fairly
quickly and began operating normally. The Oxy injection allowed easier
hotter combustion to let the engine run and burn/flush the gunk out.

I shut it down to put the valve covers back on and checked the
compression - was back to the 100# it used to run. Restarted easily and
everything appears normal now. All from a crappy foam air filter. I
replaced the element with a piece of pantyhose, would like to find a
pleated filter to fit (dealer doesn't list any, even aftermarket).

Thanks for everyone's help
Nick

Nearly any dirt bike shop, both physical and online will have
aftermarket pleated filters. Including JC Whitney..well..they did last
time I ordered from them

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

I've found lots for other ATVs but not yet for a 83 Kawasaki 3-wheeler
250 Prairie. There must be a cross reference somewhere as to what other
bike/atv uses the same filter.


Its not particularly hard to make an adapter..we are machinists after
all G

Gunner, who welded up the aluminum radiator on a Kawasaki Quad race
machine for one of the local cops yesterday..with much
trepidation..but it came out rather nicely if Imaysaysomyself

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

In article ,
Nick Hull wrote:

Thanks for all your help but the answer was a bit wierd. I guess a
small part of the foam air filter came loose and got sucked into the
cylinder and interfered with firing and let the valves leak.

I was trying the 'oil trick' (thanks Hippie...) and got up to 70#
compression when I added a bit of way oil and was able to get a
pop-pop-pop when cranking. Found some black gunk on top of the piston
and tried burning it out. No luck but did fix my eyebrows ;)

So I tried a bit of carb cleaner in the plug hole and an oxygen stream
from my oxy torch in the carb and cranked; got a steady stream of
pop-pops and kept cranking until the rpms picked up a bit then let it
run on its own until I got more revs, then turned the Oxy off and let it
idle by itself. It apparently burned up/blew out the gunk fairly
quickly and began operating normally. The Oxy injection allowed easier
hotter combustion to let the engine run and burn/flush the gunk out.

I shut it down to put the valve covers back on and checked the
compression - was back to the 100# it used to run. Restarted easily and
everything appears normal now. All from a crappy foam air filter. I
replaced the element with a piece of pantyhose, would like to find a
pleated filter to fit (dealer doesn't list any, even aftermarket).

Thanks for everyone's help
Nick

Darn! That beats my frozen exhaust pipe by a mile for weird engine
problems!:)

OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

In article , Nick Hull
says...

Thanks for everyone's help

Go careful when you ride that thing. There's a reason
they stopped making them.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

In article ,
jim rozen wrote:

In article , Nick Hull
says...

Thanks for everyone's help

Go careful when you ride that thing. There's a reason
they stopped making them.

Jim

They are only dangerous to teenagers, I'm on social security ;)

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

In article , Nick Hull
says...

They are only dangerous to teenagers, I'm on social security ;)

Teenagers *bounce*. At my age I think twice before crashing,
I'm always worried something might snap!

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:52:56 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:

In article ,
jim rozen wrote:

In article , Nick Hull
says...

Thanks for everyone's help

Go careful when you ride that thing. There's a reason
they stopped making them.

Jim

They are only dangerous to teenagers, I'm on social security ;)

Be careful its not Disability. I wont ride a three wheeler.

Gunner

"I think this is because of your belief in biological Marxism.
As a genetic communist you feel that noticing behavioural
patterns relating to race would cause a conflict with your belief
in biological Marxism." Big Pete, famous Usenet Racist

OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

I've found lots for other ATVs but not yet for a 83 Kawasaki
3-wheeler 250 Prairie. There must be a cross reference somewhere
as to what other bike/atv uses the same filter.
Its not particularly hard to make an adapter..we are machinists
after all G
Gunner

For sure. :)

I made a few of them all for the same style motorcycle by using the
original "rubber tunnel" and a food-can with both ends cut out that
fit that tunnel and a factory made foam air cleaner which was about
like a quart-size-cup. Mounted/held/suspended the can from a
specially shaped-out piece of rairoad tie banding and bradded the
brass machine screws over the nuts and washers so they couldn't get
sucked into the intake.

Much lighter than the original and breathed easier both and was
cheap too. Can you beat that one? ;) (i haven't;)

Alvin in AZ

OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

In article , Nick Hull
says...

I shut it down to put the valve covers back on and checked the
compression - was back to the 100# it used to run. Restarted easily and
everything appears normal now. All from a crappy foam air filter.

This thing may use the same 250 motor that kaw puts in their
KLR dual-sports - if so, keep a close eye on the *intake* valves.
On mine they kept on tightening up, to the point where it needed
weekly adjustments to keep it startable.

When I finally took the head off, I was able to remove the valve
keepers by hand, the valves had worn so badly. Seems that
there was a design change and they put harder valves in as a retrofit
after a certain year. The exhausts were always hard.

If the starting issues keep cropping up, make sure you have about
8 thou of clearance on the intakes when cold. If that keeps going
away, you need to pull the head and put new valves in. The parts
aren't expensive, all you need is valves (I did all 4), seals
(pity to not do them when you're in there) and a head gasket.

All told it was about a hundred dollars of stuff. Be sure to get
the updated valves if you do this.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

Nick Hull wrote:
Considering that my problem was CAUSED by a foam air cleaner,
I refuse to put another foam one on.

You can throw the baby out with the bath water all you want. :)

No sweat here either way, it's your money and your decision.

Question:
Why was it that the foam air cleaner was in such sorry shape
that a hunk of it got sucked into the engine to start with?

Huh? ;)

Sorry, but that's the sort of pointy questions that naturally
come to -my*- mind. :/

*because I was a railroad signalman and have been second
guessed, about half to death, so many stinkin times I can't
"play nice" anymore? :/

Alvin in AZ

OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:03:19 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Nick Hull wrote:
Considering that my problem was CAUSED by a foam air cleaner,
I refuse to put another foam one on.

You can throw the baby out with the bath water all you want. :)

No sweat here either way, it's your money and your decision.

Question:
Why was it that the foam air cleaner was in such sorry shape
that a hunk of it got sucked into the engine to start with?

Huh? ;)

Sorry, but that's the sort of pointy questions that naturally
come to -my*- mind. :/

*because I was a railroad signalman and have been second
guessed, about half to death, so many stinkin times I can't
"play nice" anymore? :/

Alvin in AZ
That foam filter was HOW OLD???? They haven't made or sold 3 wheelers
for a coon's age.
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OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

In article ,
clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:03:19 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Nick Hull wrote:
Considering that my problem was CAUSED by a foam air cleaner,
I refuse to put another foam one on.

You can throw the baby out with the bath water all you want. :)

No sweat here either way, it's your money and your decision.

Question:
Why was it that the foam air cleaner was in such sorry shape
that a hunk of it got sucked into the engine to start with?

Huh? ;)

Sorry, but that's the sort of pointy questions that naturally
come to -my*- mind. :/

*because I was a railroad signalman and have been second
guessed, about half to death, so many stinkin times I can't
"play nice" anymore? :/

Alvin in AZ
That foam filter was HOW OLD???? They haven't made or sold 3 wheelers
for a coon's age.

The foam filter was replaced less than 5 years ago, and obviously
degraded and softened from fuel vapors. Downdraft might have had less
trouble but this carb is sidedraft. Considering how little miles I
actually put on the ATV, I would expect a pleated air filter to last
more than 10 years and still not degrade from fuel exposure.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:02:27 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:

In article ,
clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:

On Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:03:19 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Nick Hull wrote:
Considering that my problem was CAUSED by a foam air cleaner,
I refuse to put another foam one on.

You can throw the baby out with the bath water all you want. :)

No sweat here either way, it's your money and your decision.

Question:
Why was it that the foam air cleaner was in such sorry shape
that a hunk of it got sucked into the engine to start with?

Huh? ;)

Sorry, but that's the sort of pointy questions that naturally
come to -my*- mind. :/

*because I was a railroad signalman and have been second
guessed, about half to death, so many stinkin times I can't
"play nice" anymore? :/

Alvin in AZ
That foam filter was HOW OLD???? They haven't made or sold 3 wheelers
for a coon's age.

The foam filter was replaced less than 5 years ago, and obviously
degraded and softened from fuel vapors. Downdraft might have had less
trouble but this carb is sidedraft. Considering how little miles I
actually put on the ATV, I would expect a pleated air filter to last
more than 10 years and still not degrade from fuel exposure.
So get the commonly available, cheap foam filter and replace it every
2 or 3 years. If you are paranoid, wrap it in a nylon stockong to keep
the nasties all in one place.
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OT; 3-wheeler started- the SOLUTION
 

The foam filter was replaced less than 5 years ago,

That number has no value, it could have been a month or 10 years,
the foam rubber degrades when it degrades ;) and when it degrades
you get a new one.

Later on, the size and shape I liked was no longer available so got
a sheet of the stuff and sewed up my own. The new foam I bought
"bulk" was extra good stuff and never had to replace it, quit
running them before the homemade filters gave up. :)

...and obviously degraded and softened from fuel vapors.
Downdraft might have had less trouble but this carb is sidedraft.
Considering how little miles I actually put on the ATV, I would
expect a pleated air filter to last more than 10 years and still
not degrade from fuel exposure.

So get the commonly available, cheap foam filter and replace it
every 2 or 3 years. If you are paranoid, wrap it in a nylon
stockong to keep the nasties all in one place.

My son does stuff just like that too, Nick. ;)

Nick, ever ruin a fresh rebuilt 2 stroke instead of putting fresh
gas in it? ;)

Sucking pieces of a foam air filter into an engine because it would
have taken too long to check everything over before starting it,
sounds exactly like a trick my youngest son would pull.

His specialty is to knock loose the steel plate on the bottom of an
air cooled VW engine, then run until it the number-one-rod-bearing
siezes. 4 in a row. One of those just before he toasted it anyway,
limped in leaving an oily line on the ground and he was ready to
take off when I stopped him.

"it's not leaking that bad, I'm not going far, I'll be right back"
"I said, shut the engine off dammit! :/"

Just give him a little more time on your cool foam rubber trick? ;)

Feel picked on, Nick? BTDT too.
How do you think I got to be such a "master' at it? ;)

Alvin in AZ