Gerald Miller wrote:
On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 11:31:33 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


Come on, admit it- This is something you've always wanted to try .


C'mon, be honest. Is there anyone here who hasn't tried the lawnmower spark
plug wire? Or at least talked/tricked their brother/sister into trying it?

Here. Hold this.

Steve


My favourite was the telephone magneto. I had been asked to clean one
up in the shop, so when I was finished I brought it back to the
classroom during lunch break. Several friends were gathered, so I
quietly arranged thins such that one end of the group was touching the
aluminium edging on the windowsill, as was the magneto, and while
someone turned the crank, I, holding the hot terminal, touched the
girlfriend on the posterior causing a rapid fire bleating sound. She
eventually did forgive not only myself, but the rest of the group, but
id did cost me some special favors over the next few weeks.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

12 volt industrial relay wired to its own normally closed contact as
soon as the field energized it collapsed and sent an 800ish volt back
emf spike through

it was a student lesson

I was the smartass who said can i add a peice
and took out a diode

Paul K. Dickman wrote:
"Steve B" wrote in message
news:kyoPf.608$wp.564@fed1read12...

"Don Bruder" wrote in message news:440e0fa7$0$96008
micro-schlong in hand, his whole body stiff and jiggling slightly, and

making this moan that's beyond describing in text!


Yet, according to Mythbusters, that can't/didn't happen.



Actually, what the mythbusters found was that you couldn't get electrocuted
by peeing on the third rail from a standing start.

They found that if you were on your knees in front of the rail you could get
a jolt.

Most electric fence wires I've seen, are closer to the end of my willie than
my knees are.


Paul K.Dickman





AND they did revisit and prve that the fence WILL zap you

thats why if need be i'd blame the dog and use a tree

or not use a fence or prop at all

On 8 Mar 2006 02:19:16 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 00:04:07 GMT, Rich Grise, PLainclothes Hippie wrote:
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:50:28 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

Great. Who pays for the roads, police & fire & EMS protection, and all
those things then?

The people who use them.

Great. I never drive in LA, so **** those people, is that it? I
haven't been on I80 in years, so not my problem. Oh wait, that means I
can't get food? Oh damn, wish I was thinking.


[snip]

I did a "great circle" trip this past weekend...

Phoenix to Whittier via I10/605 to a nephew's wedding.

Whittier to San Diego via 605/I5/805

San Diego to Yuma via I8

Yuma to Phoenix via I8/AZ84/AZ347

Southern California's highway condition SUCKS! I had the Q45 airborne
a few times over bad surfaces :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

On 8 Mar 2006 02:22:14 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:27:02 -0700, DE wrote:
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 07:22:00 -0700, DE
wrote:


Myth Busters did a segment on that one---it was busted -no chance
of even a tingle wizzing on a hot fence.

I am wrong- googled myth busters and low and behold Adam
did get a thrill from wizzing on the wire.

Only after giving Buster a .500" diameter urethra. Remember the shots
of them taking a drill to him cringe?

My problem with there test was that they didn't have enough pressure
behind it for a proper stream. There has been times (especially after
several beers) that I've shot a pretty hard straight stream a pretty
good ways.

"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
On 7 Mar 2006 16:30:28 -0800, wrote:



This is different from the "taser" weapon that cops
in the USA have been killing people with.

Rich
We have been having a bit of controversy up here in the frozen North
lately and I agree with the "bleeding hearts" that the taser should be
banned. Lets have the police go back to using the Glock when they are
being threatened and save a whole lot of tax money.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

My daughter is a PO here in a city of 1.5 million people. She had an
incident where a suspect ran in the garage, and was in front of the car.
She and FD were on scene and trying to get him to come out. Not being able
to see what he was up to, she Tasered him. By the time all of it was over,
a couple of the FD personnel got in contact with the wires and were doing
the dances described by the OP.

It didn't faze the suspect, but a couple of firemen left on stretchers.

In all, it was a hairy situation, but the story that was told along with it
was pretty funny.

Steve

Nick Hull wrote:

In article ,
"Rich Grise, PLainclothes Hippie" wrote:

Elect Me President in 2008! I will:
A. Fire the IRS, and abolish the income tax
B. Legalize drugs
C. Stand down all military actions by the US that don't involve actual
military aggression against US territory
D. Declare World Peace I.

You got my vote.

He left off "E. Start new military actions to enforce D."

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Rich Grise, PLainclothes Hippie wrote:

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:50:28 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:47:06 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:
In article ,
"Rich Grise, PLainclothes Hippie" wrote:

Elect Me President in 2008! I will:
A. Fire the IRS, and abolish the income tax
B. Legalize drugs
C. Stand down all military actions by the US that don't involve actual
military aggression against US territory
D. Declare World Peace I.

You got my vote.

Great. Who pays for the roads, police & fire & EMS protection, and all
those things then?

The people who use them.

So how far apart are the toll booths going to be?

People seem to not grasp the concept that there is no such thing as
"federal money" - it was all taken out of people's paychecks. (or
printed up, i.e., counterfeit). If the federal government wssn't
taking 30-50% of people's hard-earned money (not to mention the hidden
taxes), the citizens would be able to spend it on local/state projects
and stuff.

What is the federal government for? To lord it over every citizen, to
make sure they behave "right?" Or to sign treaties and keep an index
of the local and interstate roads? It should mainly be a record-keeping
place.

Let's go back to the real constitution, and get rid of the bureaucrats!
Let them try to get real jobs, like the rest of us have to do!

In fact, as president, I will issue an edict that declares that I get
paid nothing from taxes, and announce on TeeVee that everybody else in
the government should follow my example. ;-) [ - this smiley is for
the "this is a happy idea" paradigm, not the "ha, ha, what a joke!" one.]

And so what are you going to live on? Are you going to work at McD and be
President in your spare time?


--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Mark Rand wrote:

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 13:02:50 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:


C'mon Howard, this is rcm y'know.

Most guys here would quickly pick up on 3/4" circumference equaling less
that 1/4" diameter. You can't fit AAA bateries (.41" diameter) in that,
so I knew it was a bull**** story right there.


Jeff


Well, bugger me! I had to go out to the workshop and measure one, they don't
look that big for some reason.

Turns out that the one I measured was 0.402" diameter, but they still _look_
smaller. Weird!


Mark Rand
RTFM

Well, the old Burgess batteries always looked skinnier to me than they
really were, because of the stripes on them:

http://home.comcast.net/~jwisnia18/temp/burgess.jpg

Ask any woman. Clothing with vertical stripes makes you look slimmer,
that's why you rarely see lady's clothing with horizontal stripes.

(Honey, dows this dress make me look fat? No dear, but your ass does.)

Jeff





--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

KyMike wrote:


Dave Hinz wrote:
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:50:53 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:
In article QilPf.588$wp.547@fed1read12,
"Steve B" wrote:

I don't see how it would not shock you if you ****ed on it, though.
If you were wearing rubber soled shoes, it wouldn't get you, but if
you were
barefooted, I think it would. Would you try it out and get back to
us?

pee is in droplets; the air in between insulates.

Mythbusters just tackled the ****ing on the third rail question. Short
version: you don't have the flow needed to conduct. That said, I still
wouldn't do it.




Some years ago I read a short article in a railfan-type magazine about
a drunk who was killed after he stopped on a RR overpass in England and
took a leak onto a 50,000 volt catenary wire below. Apparently the
voltage makes a difference.

Frequency makes a difference. 50KV at high frequency isn't all that
exciting, in fact it has recreational uses that you probably don't want to
know about.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Who are you low life idiots and why are you posting your goddammed trash
to SED?

OK I gotta dive in on this one.
A couple years go my house burned and I had to,well, use the outdoors as
facility for..
I have a pretty(now) big place and one morning I was out there watering
the eucalyptus with a steady stream of urine when a very inquisitive
humingbird showed up. I kept it going as full bladders often do and the
bird was really not gonna give up
I think it may have gotten a taste of PBR and maybe a lesson.
Now that I think about it there are a lot of drunk humminbirds around
here

I know this involvesurine and metals but can we get(back on track) and
stop riding the fence?

typical Politician...

"I'll end taxes, but here are the new tax laws".


--------------
Article XVI.
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from
whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States,
and without regard to any census or enumeration.

snip

Unless, of course, you Elect Me President in 2008! I will:
A. Fire the IRS, and abolish the income tax
B. Legalize drugs
C. Stand down all military actions by the US that don't involve actual
military aggression against US territory
D. Declare World Peace I.

Cheers!
Rich

In article ,
"J. Clarke" wrote:

Great. Who pays for the roads, police & fire & EMS protection, and all
those things then?

The people who use them.

So how far apart are the toll booths going to be?


With computers you don't need toll booths at all.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

One of my 18 year old former students showed me one of the stupid human
videos he had bought. I section I saw have a peeing on an electric fence
segment and the guy that did it defiantly felt it.
I used to test our electric fencer by tapping it with a finger. With boots
on it wasn't bad. Did I mention I was an electricians helper as a kid. I
really hate the 60 Hz buzz when you manage to get a solid ground with a live
110 wire. Never said I was a bright helper. The panel is so far away
sometimes.
Karl

"Steve B" wrote in message
news:cOnPf.604$wp.535@fed1read12...

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:50:53 GMT, Nick Hull
wrote:
In article QilPf.588$wp.547@fed1read12,
"Steve B" wrote:

I don't see how it would not shock you if you ****ed on it, though.
If
you
were wearing rubber soled shoes, it wouldn't get you, but if you were
barefooted, I think it would. Would you try it out and get back to
us?

pee is in droplets; the air in between insulates.

Mythbusters just tackled the ****ing on the third rail question. Short
version: you don't have the flow needed to conduct. That said, I still
wouldn't do it.


But, was the rail on the ground, or up closer to the head of yer pecker?
I
can see that on a long stream, it would start to break apart. But on a
short stream close up to the source, like electric wires are hung, that it
would be possible to get a connection.

But, like you say, I will let others find out. And I guess I can forget
about the time my friend peed on one and got shocked. He was pretty close
to it.

I guess, according to Mythbusters, I really didn't see and hear what I saw
and heard.

Steve

In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:

So, back to fire protection then. Who buys the trucks? They're not
cheap, y'see.

Where I live we have a volunteer fire dept. The trucks are bought with
donations, NO taxes involved.

When I lived on Merrit Island FL (near the launch pads) the 'city' was
not incorporated and there was no city tax. The library kept building
bigger buildings, it got lots of donations. The local merchants
beautified the roads. The fire dept supported itself by selling chicken
dinners one sunday a month and had more customers than lived on the
island. Traffic lights were almost non-existant, and the sewers were
built and owned privately and worked better than most city sewers. I
could go on, but you get the idea.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

Nick Hull wrote:

In article ,
"J. Clarke" wrote:

Great. Who pays for the roads, police & fire & EMS protection, and
all those things then?

The people who use them.

So how far apart are the toll booths going to be?


With computers you don't need toll booths at all.

So how do you get people to pay your tax?

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 14:03:44 GMT, Nick Hull wrote:
In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:

So, back to fire protection then. Who buys the trucks? They're not
cheap, y'see.

Where I live we have a volunteer fire dept. The trucks are bought with
donations, NO taxes involved.

Sorry to hear that. I've been on the VFD here for, let's see, 14, 15
years or so. Our budget is about $100K per year. Without that, we
wouldn't have safe equipment. Yup, tax dollars. There isn't enough
donation money available in this area to come up with a $500,000
firetruck. And without that truck, we wouldn't be providing as good of
protection to the district.

When I lived on Merrit Island FL (near the launch pads) the 'city' was
not incorporated and there was no city tax. The library kept building
bigger buildings, it got lots of donations. The local merchants
beautified the roads. The fire dept supported itself by selling chicken
dinners one sunday a month and had more customers than lived on the
island. Traffic lights were almost non-existant, and the sewers were
built and owned privately and worked better than most city sewers. I
could go on, but you get the idea.

It's great when you have an area who donates well. Not all do.

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:31:08 GMT, Fred Bloggs wrote:
Who are you low life idiots and why are you posting your goddammed trash
to SED?

Wow. Amazing how someone can go from unknown, to the killfile, in about
3 seconds. Bye, Fred.
plonk

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 19:47:07 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
On 8 Mar 2006 02:19:16 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 00:04:07 GMT, Rich Grise, PLainclothes Hippie wrote:
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:50:28 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

Great. Who pays for the roads, police & fire & EMS protection, and all
those things then?

The people who use them.

Great. I never drive in LA, so **** those people, is that it? I
haven't been on I80 in years, so not my problem. Oh wait, that means I
can't get food? Oh damn, wish I was thinking.

I didn't say the government shouldn't build roads - what I was trying to
say is that that is one possible justification for organization on a
larger scale than the neighborhood - but the people who plan the roads
shouldn't also have the power to tap our phones, or tell us how we can
behave in the privacy of our own homes, that sort of thing. Can you see
the difference there?


[snip]

I did a "great circle" trip this past weekend...

Phoenix to Whittier via I10/605 to a nephew's wedding.

Dood! You were right in town, and didn't stop by?

I'm hurt! )-;

Thanks,
Rich
--
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo Possum

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:38:26 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
Rich Grise, PLainclothes Hippie wrote:

In fact, as president, I will issue an edict that declares that I get
paid nothing from taxes, and announce on TeeVee that everybody else in
the government should follow my example. ;-) [ - this smiley is for
the "this is a happy idea" paradigm, not the "ha, ha, what a joke!" one.]

And so what are you going to live on? Are you going to work at McD and be
President in your spare time?

I didn't say I would outlaw voluntary donations. And you can send your
senators and representatives, and yea, verily, the pentagon, as much money
as you want to. D'ya like war? Send a check to the warmakers!

But taxation is theft, and no amount or rhetoric can change that simple
truth.

Cheers!
Rich
--
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo Possum

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:36:39 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:

Nick Hull wrote:

In article ,
"Rich Grise, PLainclothes Hippie" wrote:

Elect Me President in 2008! I will:
A. Fire the IRS, and abolish the income tax
B. Legalize drugs
C. Stand down all military actions by the US that don't involve actual
military aggression against US territory
D. Declare World Peace I.

You got my vote.

He left off "E. Start new military actions to enforce D."

Wrong.

And I'm hurt that you would accuse me of such a thing.

Thanks,
Rich
--
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo Possum

Nick,

"Nick Hull" wrote in message
...
When I lived on Merrit Island FL (near the launch pads) the 'city' was
not incorporated and there was no city tax. The library kept building
bigger buildings, it got lots of donations. The local merchants
beautified the roads.

[etc...]

This is a great idea when it works, but personally I believe that
realistically only a small fraction of the population has (1) enough money and
(2) enough inclination to support this model. If you tried out this model
(rescinding a bunch of taxes in exchange for dropping a bunch of government
services that would become privately supported) in, e.g., Arkansas or
Mississippi, I think you'd find yourself in the middle of a civil war pretty
fast. :-)

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:50:28 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

Great. Who pays for the roads, police & fire & EMS protection, and all
those things then?

You can have taxes without INCOME taxes, in fact, most roads, police,
fire, EMS and such are already paid for without FEDERAL income tax.

I also don't think food should be taxed (that is, groceries... I'm ok
with taxing restraunts and bars)

Mike

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:53:38 -0600, Mike Martin wrote:
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:50:28 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

Great. Who pays for the roads, police & fire & EMS protection, and all
those things then?

You can have taxes without INCOME taxes, in fact, most roads, police,
fire, EMS and such are already paid for without FEDERAL income tax.

OK, so some taxes are bad, but other taxes are fine. Um, yeah. Like I
said, if the libertarians ever get their program together, they'll start
getting votes. Rhetoric of "taxes are theft" doesn't show a good grasp
of reality, though.

I also don't think food should be taxed (that is, groceries... I'm ok
with taxing restraunts and bars)

Pretty sure ready-to-eat food is taxed, but basic groceries aren't. No?
Either way, someone has to pay to keep I80 open, and since the whole
country benefits from it, expecting the states with little population,
where it is, to pay for it is unrealistic. (obviously that's just one
example, shared infrastructure in general benefits people who never
personally physically travel on it).

No, honey, that dress doesn't make your ass look fat. That half gallon of
ice cream you had for dessert last night makes your ass look fat.

Jim



"Rich The Newsgroup Wacko" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 23:39:54 -0500, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

(Honey, dows this dress make me look fat? No dear, but your ass does.)

On 8 Mar 2006 17:03:58 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:53:38 -0600, Mike Martin wrote:
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:50:28 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

Great. Who pays for the roads, police & fire & EMS protection, and all
those things then?

You can have taxes without INCOME taxes, in fact, most roads, police,
fire, EMS and such are already paid for without FEDERAL income tax.

OK, so some taxes are bad, but other taxes are fine. Um, yeah. Like I
said, if the libertarians ever get their program together, they'll start
getting votes. Rhetoric of "taxes are theft" doesn't show a good grasp
of reality, though.

I also don't think food should be taxed (that is, groceries... I'm ok
with taxing restraunts and bars)

Pretty sure ready-to-eat food is taxed, but basic groceries aren't. No?

In AZ that's true, no taxes on groceries, or prescription drugs.

Either way, someone has to pay to keep I80 open, and since the whole
country benefits from it, expecting the states with little population,
where it is, to pay for it is unrealistic. (obviously that's just one
example, shared infrastructure in general benefits people who never
personally physically travel on it).

Highways are generally paid for from GASOLINE taxes, although in AZ we
have a half-cent sales tax to expand the freeway system and (for the
leftist weenies) rapid rail.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:03:58 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

Either way, someone has to pay to keep I80 open,

I thought that that was supposed to be what the dollar or two a gallon in
gas taxes was to pay for. You drive, you pay. You ride a bicycle, you
don't pay. It's pretty simple - maybe too simple....

http://members.aol.com/quentncree/lehrer/newmath.htm

Cheers!
Rich
--
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo Possum

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:16:15 GMT, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:03:58 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

Either way, someone has to pay to keep I80 open,

I thought that that was supposed to be what the dollar or two a gallon in
gas taxes was to pay for. You drive, you pay. You ride a bicycle, you
don't pay. It's pretty simple - maybe too simple....

You keep not getting it. People buy goods transported on I80, right?
Does that mean that they themselves have to drive on it? They benefit
from a shared piece of infrastructure that they may never themselves
directly use.

On 8 Mar 2006 18:51:02 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:16:15 GMT, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:03:58 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

Either way, someone has to pay to keep I80 open,

I thought that that was supposed to be what the dollar or two a gallon in
gas taxes was to pay for. You drive, you pay. You ride a bicycle, you
don't pay. It's pretty simple - maybe too simple....

You keep not getting it. People buy goods transported on I80, right?
Does that mean that they themselves have to drive on it? They benefit
from a shared piece of infrastructure that they may never themselves
directly use.

And that cost of transportation is reflected in the sales price, is it
not ??

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:54:27 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
On 8 Mar 2006 18:51:02 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

You keep not getting it. People buy goods transported on I80, right?
Does that mean that they themselves have to drive on it? They benefit
from a shared piece of infrastructure that they may never themselves
directly use.

And that cost of transportation is reflected in the sales price, is it
not ??

Yes, so you're paying the tax EITHER WAY. So what's the point of
changing it if you're paying anyway?

On 8 Mar 2006 18:55:18 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:54:27 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
On 8 Mar 2006 18:51:02 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

You keep not getting it. People buy goods transported on I80, right?
Does that mean that they themselves have to drive on it? They benefit
from a shared piece of infrastructure that they may never themselves
directly use.

And that cost of transportation is reflected in the sales price, is it
not ??

Yes, so you're paying the tax EITHER WAY. So what's the point of
changing it if you're paying anyway?

I wasn't disagreeing with you. Many taxes ARE necessary.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

In article , To-Email-
says...
On 8 Mar 2006 17:03:58 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:53:38 -0600, Mike Martin wrote:
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:50:28 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

Great. Who pays for the roads, police & fire & EMS protection, and all
those things then?

You can have taxes without INCOME taxes, in fact, most roads, police,
fire, EMS and such are already paid for without FEDERAL income tax.

OK, so some taxes are bad, but other taxes are fine. Um, yeah. Like I
said, if the libertarians ever get their program together, they'll start
getting votes. Rhetoric of "taxes are theft" doesn't show a good grasp
of reality, though.

I also don't think food should be taxed (that is, groceries... I'm ok
with taxing restraunts and bars)

Pretty sure ready-to-eat food is taxed, but basic groceries aren't. No?

In AZ that's true, no taxes on groceries, or prescription drugs.

The weenies will inevitably screw that up too. Here, if you buy
six bagels they're not taxed, five they are (a.k.a. the "bagel
tax"). At a bar, alcohol tax is included in the price, unless you
also buy food then it's taxed twice (alcohol + rooms&meals).
Clothes aren't taxed unless an individual item is $110, then it's
taxed at the full value. In NY, Tang isn't taxed, but powdered
lemon aid mix is. Sales tax can be as bad as the income tax.

Either way, someone has to pay to keep I80 open, and since the whole
country benefits from it, expecting the states with little population,
where it is, to pay for it is unrealistic. (obviously that's just one
example, shared infrastructure in general benefits people who never
personally physically travel on it).

Highways are generally paid for from GASOLINE taxes, although in AZ we
have a half-cent sales tax to expand the freeway system and (for the
leftist weenies) rapid rail.

How many states raid the gasoline tax to pay for weenie things?

--
Keith

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:46:08 -0500, Keith Williams
wrote:

In article , To-Email-
says...
On 8 Mar 2006 17:03:58 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:53:38 -0600, Mike Martin wrote:
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:50:28 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

Great. Who pays for the roads, police & fire & EMS protection, and all
those things then?

You can have taxes without INCOME taxes, in fact, most roads, police,
fire, EMS and such are already paid for without FEDERAL income tax.

OK, so some taxes are bad, but other taxes are fine. Um, yeah. Like I
said, if the libertarians ever get their program together, they'll start
getting votes. Rhetoric of "taxes are theft" doesn't show a good grasp
of reality, though.

I also don't think food should be taxed (that is, groceries... I'm ok
with taxing restraunts and bars)

Pretty sure ready-to-eat food is taxed, but basic groceries aren't. No?

In AZ that's true, no taxes on groceries, or prescription drugs.

The weenies will inevitably screw that up too. Here, if you buy
six bagels they're not taxed, five they are (a.k.a. the "bagel
tax"). At a bar, alcohol tax is included in the price, unless you
also buy food then it's taxed twice (alcohol + rooms&meals).
Clothes aren't taxed unless an individual item is $110, then it's
taxed at the full value. In NY, Tang isn't taxed, but powdered
lemon aid mix is. Sales tax can be as bad as the income tax.

Either way, someone has to pay to keep I80 open, and since the whole
country benefits from it, expecting the states with little population,
where it is, to pay for it is unrealistic. (obviously that's just one
example, shared infrastructure in general benefits people who never
personally physically travel on it).

Highways are generally paid for from GASOLINE taxes, although in AZ we
have a half-cent sales tax to expand the freeway system and (for the
leftist weenies) rapid rail.

How many states raid the gasoline tax to pay for weenie things?

The weenies keep chiseling away... can you imagine what a fiasco
"rapid" rail is going to be in Phoenix? Phoenix is as large as
Massa2****s from Boston to Springfield, and Maricopa County is larger
than the whole state. The upside is that a number of politicians are
going to take the Humpty Dumpty trip ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

It's what you learn, after you know it all, that counts.

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:51:02 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:16:15 GMT, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 17:03:58 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

Either way, someone has to pay to keep I80 open,

I thought that that was supposed to be what the dollar or two a gallon in
gas taxes was to pay for. You drive, you pay. You ride a bicycle, you
don't pay. It's pretty simple - maybe too simple....

You keep not getting it. People buy goods transported on I80, right?
Does that mean that they themselves have to drive on it? They benefit
from a shared piece of infrastructure that they may never themselves
directly use.

No, the people who pay for the truckers' deisel fuel pay for it.

What exactly is it I'm "not getting"?

Thanks,
Rich
--
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo Possum

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:55:18 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 11:54:27 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
On 8 Mar 2006 18:51:02 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

You keep not getting it. People buy goods transported on I80, right?
Does that mean that they themselves have to drive on it? They benefit
from a shared piece of infrastructure that they may never themselves
directly use.

And that cost of transportation is reflected in the sales price, is it
not ??

Yes, so you're paying the tax EITHER WAY. So what's the point of
changing it if you're paying anyway?

Because you deserve value for what you pay, and bureucrats have no value.

Thanks!
Rich
--
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo Possum

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:05:21 GMT, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:51:02 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

You keep not getting it. People buy goods transported on I80, right?
Does that mean that they themselves have to drive on it? They benefit
from a shared piece of infrastructure that they may never themselves
directly use.

No, the people who pay for the truckers' deisel fuel pay for it.

Yes.

What exactly is it I'm "not getting"?

The part where you, as a consumer, go from paying for the roads through
taxes, to under your plan, being you the consumer paying for the roads
through higher prices to pay for the taxes. You're not gaining me
anything, you're just making my money go through an extra set of hands
in the process. In fact, your plan would cause prices to rise, which in
the sort-term at least would be taking money out of my pocket. No
thanks.

In article , To-Email-
says...
On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 15:46:08 -0500, Keith Williams
wrote:

In article , To-Email-
says...
On 8 Mar 2006 17:03:58 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:53:38 -0600, Mike Martin wrote:
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 21:50:28 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

Great. Who pays for the roads, police & fire & EMS protection, and all
those things then?

You can have taxes without INCOME taxes, in fact, most roads, police,
fire, EMS and such are already paid for without FEDERAL income tax.

OK, so some taxes are bad, but other taxes are fine. Um, yeah. Like I
said, if the libertarians ever get their program together, they'll start
getting votes. Rhetoric of "taxes are theft" doesn't show a good grasp
of reality, though.

I also don't think food should be taxed (that is, groceries... I'm ok
with taxing restraunts and bars)

Pretty sure ready-to-eat food is taxed, but basic groceries aren't. No?

In AZ that's true, no taxes on groceries, or prescription drugs.

The weenies will inevitably screw that up too. Here, if you buy
six bagels they're not taxed, five they are (a.k.a. the "bagel
tax"). At a bar, alcohol tax is included in the price, unless you
also buy food then it's taxed twice (alcohol + rooms&meals).
Clothes aren't taxed unless an individual item is $110, then it's
taxed at the full value. In NY, Tang isn't taxed, but powdered
lemon aid mix is. Sales tax can be as bad as the income tax.

Either way, someone has to pay to keep I80 open, and since the whole
country benefits from it, expecting the states with little population,
where it is, to pay for it is unrealistic. (obviously that's just one
example, shared infrastructure in general benefits people who never
personally physically travel on it).

Highways are generally paid for from GASOLINE taxes, although in AZ we
have a half-cent sales tax to expand the freeway system and (for the
leftist weenies) rapid rail.

How many states raid the gasoline tax to pay for weenie things?

The weenies keep chiseling away... can you imagine what a fiasco
"rapid" rail is going to be in Phoenix? Phoenix is as large as
Massa2****s from Boston to Springfield, and Maricopa County is larger
than the whole state. The upside is that a number of politicians are
going to take the Humpty Dumpty trip ;-)

They've already tried that here. Howie Dean's f(tr)olley; a train
from Charlotte (one of the state's richest towns) to Burlington
(maybe 15 miles). Cost *$millions* ($35M, IIRC) for a couple of
people to ride per day. It's now zero because it went bust (NECRR
got a bundle for track improvements though). The whole *state*
hasn't the population of Boston proper (and that's not a lot). The
weenies don't understand with the "mass", mass-transit doesn't
work.

--
Keith

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:14:31 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:05:21 GMT, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 18:51:02 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

You keep not getting it. People buy goods transported on I80, right?
Does that mean that they themselves have to drive on it? They benefit
from a shared piece of infrastructure that they may never themselves
directly use.

No, the people who pay for the truckers' deisel fuel pay for it.

Yes.

What exactly is it I'm "not getting"?

The part where you, as a consumer, go from paying for the roads through
taxes, to under your plan, being you the consumer paying for the roads
through higher prices to pay for the taxes.

Speaking of not getting it, there's a difference between the tax collector
who takes money out of your paycheck, and the tax collector who pays for
roads with the fuel tax.

You're not gaining me
anything,

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's the POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I shouldn't HAVE to pay my hard-earned money to benefit YOU!

Screw you, commie.
--
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo Possum

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:47:10 GMT, Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 21:14:31 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

The part where you, as a consumer, go from paying for the roads through
taxes, to under your plan, being you the consumer paying for the roads
through higher prices to pay for the taxes.

Speaking of not getting it, there's a difference between the tax collector
who takes money out of your paycheck, and the tax collector who pays for
roads with the fuel tax.

Not to me there's not. Tax money = money I'm not spending.

You're not gaining me
anything,

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's the POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I shouldn't HAVE to pay my hard-earned money to benefit YOU!

So you benefit from the road, but you don't want to pay anything towards
keeping it up. Thanks for clarifying.

Screw you, commie.

plonk. Again, I think. Wonder how that happened.